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Giving the New Regime a Chance

TurnAndCoughlin : 10/14/2018 9:31 am
And excercising a little patience. Its insane to judge a new coach and GM after 5 weeks of games. They had a 50%+ roster turnover from the Reese days. And while everyone here focuses exclusively on shortcomings, the wisdom of so many moves is overlooked.

- They resisted paying Justin Pugh, who the market rewarded with a 5 yr, $45mm contract with $15.75 guaranteed (Cardinals). Justin has rewarded them with a 51.1 PFF grade. New Regime instead signed Omemah to an affordable 3 year, $15mm contract with $5.6mm guaranteed. Omemah is far more affordable and has had better results on the field (54.5 PFF grade). Thats a solid exchange that deserves praise, not admonishment!

- They let Weston Richburg walk. The market valued him at a whopping five-year, $47.5 million contract with $28.5 million in guarantees (49ers). Richburg rewarded them with a pretty eh 58.5 PFF grade. New Regime was right to let him walk. Their chosen replacements havent been any better performance-wise, but its much, much smarter business decision (Greco makes a cool $1mm and has a 52.7 PFF grade). Again, smart moves deserving praise.

Those are just two important examples of two smart, oft-overlooked decisions.

My point here? Rome wasnt built in a day and everyone clamoring for Regime change doesnt understand the long-term damage thats happens when management changes over and over and over again. You see that long term damage with the Browns, Redskins and others over the last decade. It is an immediate formula for a decade in the basement. It takes time (2-3 years) for new management to bring in guys that fit their scheme and learn their system.

Be patient, BBI. I know its not easy, but take solace in the little victories today (Saquon, Will H, Eli Apples improvement, etc) while waiting for the Big Victories on 2020, 2021 and beyond.
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Chris Mara  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/14/2018 2:25 pm : link
has to go next
6 games in and  
SHO'NUFF : 10/14/2018 2:51 pm : link
Shurmur still doesn't have a clue.
BBI is never patient! LOL!  
nicky43 : 10/14/2018 4:50 pm : link
I agree with the op. Too soon to judge but what's really going on is the crying from the crowd that can't accept that we went with Eli instead of drafting a new QB this year. So no matter what happens, win, lose, or tie, they are going to bitch about everything until Eli is benched or replaced.

You..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/14/2018 5:14 pm : link
just keep seeing people say "going all in on Eli" even though there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Just because they didn't pick a QB doesn't mean they are mortgaging the future for make a run this year - and that's exactly what is implied.

They traded JPP for a 3rd rounder, which became Hill.

They let DRC go.

They cut Hart and Flowers

They let Pugh and Richburg walk.

But carry on with a false narrative. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't stop people from typing it.
RE: You..  
christian : 10/14/2018 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14128038 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just keep seeing people say "going all in on Eli" even though there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Just because they didn't pick a QB doesn't mean they are mortgaging the future for make a run this year - and that's exactly what is implied.

They traded JPP for a 3rd rounder, which became Hill.

They let DRC go.

They cut Hart and Flowers

They let Pugh and Richburg walk.

But carry on with a false narrative. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't stop people from typing it.


I know right? It's not like Gettleman dished out 125M+ in guaranteed money on contracts this off-season. This false narrative the Giants tried to win this year is loco.
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/14/2018 5:32 pm : link
Spending money this year means they had to win??

If Gettleman cut everyone and was $80M under the cap that's what people would look at as being good??

All the contracts given were at positions of need. The Stewart one was a terrible one, but let's not act like they spent money on old vets looking to make a SB run.

You are really going to intimate that? Even you aren't contrarian enough to take that fucking position.
RE: Huh??  
christian : 10/14/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14128074 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Spending money this year means they had to win??

If Gettleman cut everyone and was $80M under the cap that's what people would look at as being good??

All the contracts given were at positions of need. The Stewart one was a terrible one, but let's not act like they spent money on old vets looking to make a SB run.

You are really going to intimate that? Even you aren't contrarian enough to take that fucking position.


What the heck are you even talking about? No one said anything about the money being sent to old vets, not positions of need, or even being terrible.

But spending 125M guaranteed better damn be in the pursuit of winning now, and presumably a Super Bowl.

If the GM just put out that coin to not win now. Yikes.

Even you aren't bananas enough to take that view are you?
Hopefully  
Jerry in DC : 10/14/2018 6:01 pm : link
Fat man saw a chunk of that 125M to mount such a vigorous defense of the guy online.

We're entering baghdad bob/gene from Torrington territory here
Holy shit  
mako J : 10/14/2018 6:23 pm : link
Worst fanbase in sports.

Twitterers, facebookers, "been a fan since the sixties-ers....it doesn't seem to matter.

5 games in. Gotta be trolls right?

Embarrassing.
Looking forward to Gettleman's next draft  
adamg : 10/14/2018 6:37 pm : link
He got two future starters in round three. Reese hadn't done as much in years.

I know the analytics guys think he's the anti-Christ, but there's something to being an expert in talent evaluation that does us more help now than knowing the game theory from within the ten yard line.
...  
christian : 10/14/2018 6:52 pm : link
Gettleman had fantastic draft, and with how high the Giants project to pick again, no reason to think be can't repeat it.
RE: ...  
FranchiseQB : 10/14/2018 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14128229 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman had fantastic draft, and with how high the Giants project to pick again, no reason to think be can't repeat it.


He had a chance at a high pedigree QB. If he lands one in the next draft he will be able to salvage his reputation. If somehow the Giants can't get a QB that has elite upside going into next season, DG will be a goat, and I'm not talking about the greatest of all time.
What..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/14/2018 7:26 pm : link
the fuck is this even supposed to mean??

Quote:
Hopefully
Jerry in DC : 6:01 pm : link : reply
Fat man saw a chunk of that 125M to mount such a vigorous defense of the guy online.

We're entering baghdad bob/gene from Torrington territory here


I get that people are frustrated, but it is complete madness the way it isn't just intimated, but outright said that Gettleman and Shurmur are incompetent, that because we didn't pick a QB that we don't know what the fuck we are doing, and because we used the cap that we somehow were fiscally negligent?

The ironic thing is - not many people had high expectations this year. JonC has said all offseason that there's no way we could make all the moves we needed to, yet people are flipping out. But let's be honest here, if the GM was an unknown and the HC was from the Belicheck tree and we still had the same results, it isn't like people wouldn't be complaining - they'd be saying that the Belicheck tree sucks and that the GM was a terrible hire - and that would be wrong too. And we'd probably still have to listen to the utter bullshit that Mara made keeping eli a condition of the hirings.

And Jerry, spare me the act about Baghdad Bob. Since you've been back you haven't made a fucking post that isn't there to entirely shit on the team. If you think it is stupid to always defend the team, you should find it equally dumb to post nothing but invective.
Agree..........  
Kanavis : 10/14/2018 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14127548 David in Belmont said:
Quote:


And the the trading of Brett Jones (for a 7th) and letting Webb (QB) go make no sense. Jones played OK last season and injuries always happen + a 7th round pick is a total crapshoot. So you keep Jones in case. And you keep Webb around (instead of a useless journeyman backup QB) just to see if the kid develops in ways you don't expect now.

So now we've got an unwatchable team with a terrible QB behind a partly/mostly terrible OL.


It's worse than that. As mediocre as Jones could be, he might actually have been the 2nd best lineman on the team right now behind Hernandez. I thought he outplayed Halapio by a little. And both Greco and Halapio seemed to have trouble calling out protections and blitzes. I think Jones would have been better. There was also nothing to be gained by cutting Webb.

We can complain about DG and the 'regime' all we want. But we have the Dallas problem. An owner involved in football operations. Mara may mean well and I think he does care about the fans. But he doesn't seem to realize how that gets in the way of objective football decisions. GMs have to do unpopular things sometimes.

The irony of this is...we are in this situation because of the backlash against the Eli benching. But one, Mara himself, by his own admission, knew about the benching and probably approved it. Second, most of us who were outraged were outraged because they started Smith and not Webb. There was nothing wrong with taking a look at Webb. Not sure Mara sees things as clearly as an objective, non-owner would.
...  
christian : 10/14/2018 8:31 pm : link
Quote:
... and because we used the cap that we somehow were fiscally negligent?


The fiscal flaw is in a system where the money can roll over, it's better to hold onto it than spend it on bad investments.

Nate Solder, Omameh, Stewart, Latimer, Michael Thomas, and Connor Barwin are all overpaid relative to their play. These are win now moves, 55M of guaranteed money.

Let's revisit this periodically and see what guys on this list are 1) here next year or 2) contribute to a winning season.
You know nothing  
mako J : 10/14/2018 8:58 pm : link
"Win now". Interesting how these narratives take on lives of their own.

Rosters require players of different tenures, cultures, history/backgrounds. Coaching/regime changes especially require rosters that encourage culture change.

Scheme fits/ familiarity
Leadership
Foundation building

Aside from Solder, none of those players have contracts that will limit roster or financial flexibility. And there was no way this team could enter this season without a capable LT.
RE: You know nothing  
christian : 10/14/2018 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14128482 mako J said:
Quote:
"Win now". Interesting how these narratives take on lives of their own.

Rosters require players of different tenures, cultures, history/backgrounds. Coaching/regime changes especially require rosters that encourage culture change.

Scheme fits/ familiarity
Leadership
Foundation building

Aside from Solder, none of those players have contracts that will limit roster or financial flexibility. And there was no way this team could enter this season without a capable LT.


Am I the only one who thinks it's super creepy when people say "narative" when they really mean someone else's "opinion." But narrative sounds more nefarious so let's go with that.

The culture shift has been awesome. Gettleman cut all the mean bad guys. Brought on a bunch of nice old guys, and the team still sucks, regularly folds, and the locker room seems like it's crushing it.

So let's go ahead and put Solder's absolute crap contract aside for now. That's still $20M directly spent to bolster the team in the immediate term on players who aren't part of the future. Which by definition is about now. And that group looks terrible.

But wait ... There's more. Gettleman did guarantee Solder $35M. And Solder has been pretty bad.

I guess Solder satisfied the role of really great guy, but wildly overpaid and gets the QB's teeth kicked in once a game?
The Eli dont need to draft a QB crowd  
giantstock : 10/14/2018 9:17 pm : link
We see what's happening here.
The crowd that wanted Eli and/or didn't want a QB selected is going to keep throwing out phony excuses why SB and not the QB was the correct move. They make up their own preposterous narrative to justify the probable blunder. OFC it won't be a blunder if Gmen remain pathetic all year and get the QB.

But without that-- how many times have we heard the ridiculous narrative "The Giants weren't going to be better this year with any of the new QB's anyways?"

These type of points are just so obviously phony. The idea of drafting a Qb was never to win now. But the obvious attempt by the giants by signing Solder instead of a guy like Hubbard was exactly the point. Add in to keep Eli and sign Stewart were all attempts to win now.

The "don't draft a QB crowd" try to falsely change the narrative by saying the G-MEn got rid of guys like Pugh and Richman. This deceptive (or silly) attempt is to try to sweep the signing of Solder and keeping Eli under the rug.



It is a narrative when "fans"  
mako J : 10/14/2018 9:26 pm : link
Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
RE: It is a narrative when  
christian : 10/14/2018 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14128530 mako J said:
Quote:
Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.


To get to 1-5, the worst record in the NFL, a broken locker room, and the 37-year-old quarterback getting beat like a bag and on the verge of being benched? And a defense giving up 27 points a game?

Over the dismal o-line? I'd have gone ahead with Flowers, Jerry's renegotiated deal at RG, and Wheeler at right tackle.

Over the part time edge rusher who can't hang onto the ball? Romeo Okwara.

Instead of the overmatched, overpaid and injured WR? Tavarres King.

Special teams contributor making twice as much as necessary? Dwyane Harris.
I disagree with anyone who says  
Leg of Theismann : 10/14/2018 9:50 pm : link
that the new regime made some massive/unforgivable mistake by drafting Barkley and going with Manning for another year. He still had 2 years left on his huge contract and most people did not think that the 3-13 debacle last year was his fault (most thought it was injuries, poor coaching, lack of depth/talent, etc.).

The calculation was simple: Barkley was the best player in the draft, so they took him, and if it turned out Manning still had what it takes and the Giants (who just went 11-5 one year prior) could bounce back and make the playoffs, they figured Barkley would be a huge help in making a possible run at the super bowl. However, if it turned out Manning was indeed done and it turned out the team was still 3-13 level of terrible, they would be right back near the top of the draft in 2019 with another chance to grab a blue chip QB prospect, in a better position to cut/trade Manning cap-wise than they were in 2018, and they would still have the best player of the 2018 draft on their roster. That's the great thing about the NFL draft: if you fuck up, you'll be right back at the top of the draft the next year with another chance. IMO, they didn't fuck up, they got the best player in the draft, but in 2019 they will still be in prime position to take a top tier QB. They did not like any of the QBs available at #2 in the 2018 draft (or at least thought Barkley was just that much better than all of them) so they didn't take one, simple as that.

They evaluated Barkley to be the best player in the draft and results have proven that that is probably the case, so I don't see how it can be viewed as a failure. Someone with his level of talent/vision/physical ability is not going to just fizzle out when he's 26 years old, so he could very well be an ultra-important piece on a championship team some years from now. Meanwhile he will GREATLY help whoever the next young QB will be.

Interesting  
mako J : 10/14/2018 10:01 pm : link
So to your trained eye, Flowers after 3 seasons of ineptitude at LT, in his lame duck year, is a better option to help a new staff install a new system. I'm sure the rest of the offense would be brimming with confidence over that decision. Ditto for Jerry.

I'm sure Okwara has all kinds of pelts on the wall and film study secrets to share with Carter.

I can only laugh at Tavares King.

I won't argue on Harris's play, but of course I know nothing of his personality and culture fit.
What most people are really missing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/14/2018 10:06 pm : link
is that the whole "win now" concept is so shallow that it basically boils down to a perception that hinges on drafting Barkley instead of a QB.

People are making sweeping statements about incompetence because of this one move. All things being equal, the team would be the same except you'd have a QB instead of Barkley.

Obviously we wouldn't know what record we'd have with Darnold, but it is like people don't really give a shit how impressive Barkley is yet salivate over Darnold.

And because of this one singular move, one where Barkley looks like the real deal forces all sorts of speculation that we chose him because keeping Eli was a condition of hiring a GM and HC. That we are building around Eli a strong team to contend today. That we are "all in" with Eli.

Meanwhile, 60% of the roster and 50% of the starters are different.

One choice at who to pick at #2 has all of these ramifications?? It shouldn't. That it does speaks more about frustration and agendas than actual reality.
...  
christian : 10/14/2018 11:14 pm : link
Picking Barkley was a great step in the right direction. The early returns on the draft look good. Luckily it looks like the Giants will have the good fortune of drafting at the top of the board again. Hopefully they can secure a talented QB. No agenda, no narrative, no secret vendetta.

I would have gone QB for financial and value reasons, but it's not a tragedy.

But it's comical to consider the 50M guaranteed money spent outside of Beckham was about isntalling the systems or mentoring rookies. That's BS. Those players were brought here to make the team better right now, and to a man it's been underwhelming.

Solder's contract is very bad and he's struggling. Omameh's play has been no better than John Jerry at a marked increase in cost. Kareem Martin has been a non-factor. Latimer has been a non-factor and hurt twice now. Connor Barwin is shot. Jonathan Stewart was shot.

Not one of those moves looks good.

The locker room is as bad as I can remember. The quarterback situation is ugly, both on and presumably soon-to-be off the field.

For as cynical as I can be about Manning, it actually makes me sad seeing him get beat like a bag out there. I would have much rather had Geno Smith be the crash test dummy than Manning.
RE: It is a narrative when  
giantstock : 10/15/2018 12:09 am : link
In comment 14128530 mako J said:
Quote:
Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.


Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."

So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?

I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.

There-- hack away.
RE: RE: It is a narrative when  
Leg of Theismann : 10/15/2018 2:02 am : link
In comment 14128866 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14128530 mako J said:


Quote:


Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.



Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."

So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?

I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.

There-- hack away.


First of all, cutting Eli Manning would not have resulted in "extra money" in 2018, it would have actually resulted in $5M LESS in cap room due to his dead cap number being higher than his cap hit. See the link below. The "savings" for cutting Eli will only come from cutting him in 2019.

2nd of all, Chris Hubbard as far as I know has only played RT, not LT, so I guess your plan would have been to keep Ereck Flowers protecting Eli's blindside? I'm sure that would have gone over well.

I don't think Dave Gettleman has been perfect, but I do think you should check your facts before you resort to using ALL CAPS and flaming personal attacks laced with misspellings and grammatical errors.




Giants 2018 Salary Cap - ( New Window )
Sorry I guess you said you wouldn't bring Eli back  
Leg of Theismann : 10/15/2018 2:09 am : link
So Flowers would be left to protect your Rookie QB's blindside, not Eli's blindside (my mistake), of course with Hubbard at RT. I'm sure the NYG W-L record would be much better in that situation than it is now.
RE: RE: It is a narrative when  
mako J : 10/15/2018 7:59 am : link
In comment 14128866 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14128530 mako J said:


Quote:


Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.



Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."

So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?

I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.

There-- hack away.


My comments on this thread have nothing to do with the QB. I'm simply responding to posters like yourself, that demanded a one offseason turn around, with instant results in the first quarter of the season against the toughest stretch of the schedule.

I'm responding to fans who can't wrap their brains around the notion that a GM and coach felt the best way to build the foundation of their program was to take the best player in the draft, overturn half the roster, and spend cap money on vets they felt were good fits for the scheme, the youth, and the culture.

There is no evidence the locker room is toxic. There's still a diva and a undermining media, but that's not anything new.

Since you felt the need to lump me in with fans you think have their panties in a bunch over the QB, I'll respond to that. This regime was prepared for offensive line challenges. Many teams are dealing with it. They actively started the rebuild of that room and the anticipated challenges are of course present. As a group, they are working through it. It showed signs against Carolina and regressed on a short week vs a hated rival with an outstanding front.

Ultimately, they chose to subject Eli to these growing pains upfront. A veteran who has seen it all, gets them lined up, and understands how to play the chess match. The whole offense benefits from this experience. As does the coaching staff that is only 5 games in together.

Next year they'll bring in a new young QB and that QB will have a better opportunity to succeed early because of this season's growing pains.

Lastly, re: $50 million on underperforming vets. 5 games in vs the stiffest portion of the schedule. In terms of plan though, this "fan" base with this media market in this league demands instant gratification. Some players have a finite number of games left. Coaches livelihoods depend on winning. Season ticket holders are entitled to a "product on the field". From my chair, it looks like the plan was to rebuild on the fly. If you stay healthy and catch a few breaks, your in the dance with a QB who performs well there.
They need to continue building through the draft and compiling talent  
JonC : 10/15/2018 8:06 am : link
Next thing is to continue to cull the roster of problems, and stop grocery shopping free agents with an emtpy (desperate) stomach.

After they add a QB prospect, pass rusher, and tackle to the OL, the team will look much better on gameday.
RE: What most people are really missing..  
crick n NC : 10/15/2018 8:32 am : link
In comment 14128627 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

but it is like people don't really give a shit how impressive Barkley is yet salivate over Darnold.


👍 Exactly. Shit you can't even make a thread celebrating Barkley without getting a response that looks like the following, "but we didn't get a qb".
I've been happy with Gettleman so far.....  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 8:33 am : link
I feel like he made a lot of good moves that will hopefully pay dividends down the line.

Jury is still out on Shurmur.
Although I'm willing to be patient with Shurmur....  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 8:34 am : link
.
Barkley's great...was never really going to be a question  
Jimmy Googs : 10/15/2018 8:44 am : link
but we are going nowhere on many levels. So stop intimating there is a plan or that people expected too much when we are so non-competitive in all facets of the game.

And will note a clear cut demeanor change from several of the posters on this thread from last spring until now...
Yeah, well fucking losing will do that...  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 8:46 am : link
glad you're noting it.
RE: Yeah, well fucking losing will do that...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/15/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 14129042 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
glad you're noting it.


its not the losing...
Then enlighten us on...  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 8:56 am : link
the "demeanor change". Are you saying people are wishing now that we had taken a QB instead of Barkley? That didn't change for me. I'm still happy with Barkley. I'm still happy with Dave Gettleman's philosophy of run the ball, rush the passer. I'm willing to give the team time to gel and for the 33 new players on the roster to learn to play together as a team.

Would I have liked it to work out for us to be competitive right now, like other teams have done in the past, turning it around from worst to first? Of course. It didn't happen, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it can't happen. So that hasn't changed either.

Jury is still out for me on Shurmur. Of course all I had was hope during the offseason, what else was there to go on? So I'm a little worried there, now. So I guess that's a demeanor change.

Finally, as far as Eli? I still believe he can play. You're not going to change my mind on that. It's clear that THIS team, THIS coaching, and THIS roster is not a good fit for him. So I guess that was wishful thinking too, and I thought he would shut a lot of people up. I miscalculated that. Shit happens. I believe he can still play.
Wasnt really commenting about you  
Jimmy Googs : 10/15/2018 8:59 am : link
but that was some post you just wrote. Bet you are glad to get all that off your chest, huh?
RE: Wasnt really commenting about you  
crick n NC : 10/15/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 14129057 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but that was some post you just wrote. Bet you are glad to get all that off your chest, huh?


People who change their mind when new data is available would indicate fresh thinking pending the data is sufficient for a change of mind.
Um...ok?  
Jimmy Googs : 10/15/2018 9:20 am : link
good luck with that...
RE: RE: RE: It is a narrative when  
giantstock : 10/15/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 14128887 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14128866 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14128530 mako J said:


Quote:


Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.

Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.



Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."

So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?

I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.

There-- hack away.



First of all, cutting Eli Manning would not have resulted in "extra money" in 2018, it would have actually resulted in $5M LESS in cap room due to his dead cap number being higher than his cap hit. See the link below. The "savings" for cutting Eli will only come from cutting him in 2019.

2nd of all, Chris Hubbard as far as I know has only played RT, not LT, so I guess your plan would have been to keep Ereck Flowers protecting Eli's blindside? I'm sure that would have gone over well.

I don't think Dave Gettleman has been perfect, but I do think you should check your facts before you resort to using ALL CAPS and flaming personal attacks laced with misspellings and grammatical errors.


Giants 2018 Salary Cap - ( New Window )


1-- The GMen would ahve had $9.8m in cap space freed if they cut Eli.

2-- In regards to Hubbard-- where are the Gmen going THIS YEAR? If he shows he can't - then we get a guy in fa or draft one the next year. You have to realize that you are not expected to win in 2018 so for a guy like Hubbard you see if he can do it. If he can't you got him at RT for years and he is YOUNG.

If he can't and you had Flowers -- you are seriously talking about what would have "gone over well?" Are you kidding? Please explain how this season has "gone over well" so far. And do you know who Trent Brown is? Are you suggesting players are incapable of learning? Because Trent Brown was primarily a RT and now he's on the Pats as a LT. You don't think there are other examples of a player that started at RT and moved to lT? You see posters liek you all you want to do is bury your head in the sand. We weren't expected to win. DO you get that? Even if our OL stunk -- you still picked up TWO quality OL in FA instead of what the Gmen did by picking up 1.

3-- I dont think you know what you're talking about. Sorry about the typos.

RE: Sorry I guess you said you wouldn't bring Eli back  
giantstock : 10/15/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 14128888 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
So Flowers would be left to protect your Rookie QB's blindside, not Eli's blindside (my mistake), of course with Hubbard at RT. I'm sure the NYG W-L record would be much better in that situation than it is now.


Again posters such as yourself look to deceptively speak of wins and losses. Please stop this bullcrap by trying to change the narrative. The idea of drafting a QB for 2018 should have ben understood that you aren't winnign in 2018. SO this nonsense you and others speak of about how many wins we'd ahve thsi year is irrelevant.

PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU DRAFTED A QB IN 2018 THE IDEA WAS NOT TO WIN MORE GAMES IN 2018. IT WAS TO BUILD FOR THE FUTURE. PLEASE STOP WITH THE PLASE NARRATIVE.
Why can't we build for the future with Barkley?  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 9:40 am : link
?
...  
christian : 10/15/2018 9:50 am : link
For the love of my stomach can people please stop using the word narrative like this is some kind of Beltway cable news conspiracy.
The NFL is outlawing  
mako J : 10/15/2018 9:52 am : link
The drafting of quarterbacks, starting now. It's too late for the Giants. Doomed.
RE: Why can't we build for the future with Barkley?  
giantstock : 10/15/2018 10:04 am : link
In comment 14129134 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
?


Sure - we can if we get a QB. But you realize QB is the most important position, right? G-Men have to continue to stink, right? If we do-- great we get the QB.

It would be nice to have some sort of control over your own destiny, wouldn't it? If we're good enough to get 6 or even 5 wins this year we may lose enough control.
I guess I didn't realize that.  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 10:13 am : link
.
...  
christian : 10/15/2018 10:14 am : link
Thankfully the expensive veteran UFA moves Gettleman made didn't push the Giants into mediocrity, and it appears they will have another shot to have their choice of talented quarterbacks.

Coming out of 2 terrible seasons with a highly talented RB and QB will be a great start.

The Giants clear as day then need to invest more wisely in the o-line and not repeat the mistakes of this off-season.

If they build the line through the draft responsibly, this team will be really exciting a year from now.
I'm still trying to figure out when the rule got put into place....  
Britt in VA : 10/15/2018 10:15 am : link
that you had to draft in the Top 5 to land a QB.
RE: Um...ok?  
crick n NC : 10/15/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 14129090 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
good luck with that...


Please enlighten me with the problem with what I said in my post
I don't what it meant nor the point of it  
Jimmy Googs : 10/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
so i moved on...
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