And excercising a little patience. It’s insane to judge a new coach and GM after 5 weeks of games. They had a 50%+ roster turnover from the Reese days. And while everyone here focuses exclusively on shortcomings, the wisdom of so many moves is overlooked.
- They resisted paying Justin Pugh, who the market rewarded with a 5 yr, $45mm contract with $15.75 guaranteed (Cardinals). Justin has rewarded them with a 51.1 PFF grade. New Regime instead signed Omemah to an affordable 3 year, $15mm contract with $5.6mm guaranteed. Omemah is far more affordable and has had better results on the field (54.5 PFF grade). That’s a solid exchange that deserves praise, not admonishment!
- They let Weston Richburg walk. The market valued him at a whopping five-year, $47.5 million contract with $28.5 million in guarantees (49ers). Richburg rewarded them with a pretty eh 58.5 PFF grade. New Regime was right to let him walk. Their chosen replacements haven’t been any better performance-wise, but it’s much, much smarter business decision (Greco makes a cool $1mm and has a 52.7 PFF grade). Again, smart moves deserving praise.
Those are just two important examples of two smart, oft-overlooked decisions.
My point here? Rome wasn’t built in a day and everyone clamoring for Regime change doesn’t understand the long-term damage that’s happens when management changes over and over and over again. You see that long term damage with the Browns, Redskins and others over the last decade. It is an immediate formula for a decade in the basement. It takes time (2-3 years) for new management to bring in guys that fit their scheme and learn their system.
Be patient, BBI. I know it’s not easy, but take solace in the little victories today (Saquon, Will H, Eli Apple’s improvement, etc) while waiting for the Big Victories on 2020, 2021 and beyond.
The new regime gets a chance, but so far, they're looking a lot like the previous regime.
And with Chris Mara in the front office, the question has to be asked if this is truly a new regime at all.
FA is much less encouraging. I think they will regret Soldier move. He looks no where near the value of the contract. None of the other FA appear to have improved much, just recycling low or average players for other low or average players.
Not thrilled with PS thus far. Results are what they are. I’m mostly looking for signs of improving and outside of Saquon haven’t seen it.
It would be nice to see signs of impact from coaching but not seeing much yet on either side of the ball. But way too early to judge at this point. Need more time.
So Omameh plays Ole' because Eli cant run? And the D-End goes around Solder and Wheeler because they dont have to worry about Eli running? Personally I think it is to the point where the defense does not have to worry about Eli running or throwing.
If the measure of success of this GM is he could have done worse, what a sad time for the team.
and almost everyone they signed has been a HUGE disappointment and are all overpaid.
so stop with that bullshit.
the only silver lining is they nailed the draft, although even that is still up for debate because if darnold or rosen end up being the real deal and the giants draft someone at QB who doesn't then this draft is a colossal failure.
also if they end up drafting a QB high again next year we wasted last years 4th round pick
How much of a threat to run is Brady? This line is terrible allowing jailbreaks and opening zero holes for Barkley. I’m not saying it’s all on them, I’d say 75% line 25% Eli.
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a lot of the O-line problem is Eli and the fact he is no threat at all to run let alone move in the pocket.
How much of a threat to run is Brady? This line is terrible allowing jailbreaks and opening zero holes for Barkley. I’m not saying it’s all on them, I’d say 75% line 25% Eli.
interesting that you mention Brady. Did you happen to notice that we got his left tackle and for some reason he's good enough for Brady but not good enough for us? Let's not compare Eli to Brady, please. Brady's accuracy and decision-making and ability to lead a quick tempo offense are off the charts compared to the version of Eli we have this year. Eli is a massive problem with this team, more than 25%.
Gotta disagree, while Barkley is sensational, how much better off would the giants be with a “potential” franchise QB ready to step in for Eli next week! Which makes me doubt DG and Shurmur’s view if the NFL, this could have been the year of the QB with Darnold , Mayfield, Rosen and even Allen all showing promise.
How many playoff games did Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson and Erick Dickerson win? You either need a good QB or an amazing defense to win a Superbowl. Because they picked Barkley, who I thin is amazing, they are at least 2 years from either. By the way the answer is 4
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looks like we drafted the best player.. We have a solid LG out of the draft as well.. they were stuck with too many bad pieces from previous regime so it was a multi year fix.. Omameh is bad and Stewart was overpaid but neither are going to restrict us going forward.. Couple of OL coming this off season and with out talent on skill position, the next QB will look good regardless.. SB was simply too good to pass up for the QBs that were remaining.
Gotta disagree, while Barkley is sensational, how much better off would the giants be with a “potential” franchise QB ready to step in for Eli next week! Which makes me doubt DG and Shurmur’s view if the NFL, this could have been the year of the QB with Darnold , Mayfield, Rosen and even Allen all showing promise.
totally agree. I would rather have the qb of the future in hand.
Not quite sure what these people have been watching last 5 games. Hand of God.
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In comment 14127329 mdthedream said:
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a lot of the O-line problem is Eli and the fact he is no threat at all to run let alone move in the pocket.
How much of a threat to run is Brady? This line is terrible allowing jailbreaks and opening zero holes for Barkley. I’m not saying it’s all on them, I’d say 75% line 25% Eli.
interesting that you mention Brady. Did you happen to notice that we got his left tackle and for some reason he's good enough for Brady but not good enough for us? Let's not compare Eli to Brady, please. Brady's accuracy and decision-making and ability to lead a quick tempo offense are off the charts compared to the version of Eli we have this year. Eli is a massive problem with this team, more than 25%.
You missed the point I was replying to, someone making the point of the O-line is bad because Eli is no threat to run. And yeah I noticed we got their LT, thanks Captain Obvious!
BB went searching and traded for a guy who is outplaying Solder, and is costing 20M less than Solder this year....
It's looking like this contract is going to bite us in the as for a couple years.....
There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this OL......and what DG has brought in, have sucked thus far...and yet he will fix it next year? Yeah, ya gotta have faith...just like in Reese We Trust....
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the same people who didn't want to draft Barkley?
Not quite sure what these people have been watching last 5 games. Hand of God.
They were watching the giants go 1-5! Yes Barkley is great but IMO the future would look a hell of a lot brighter if we were going to start a new QB next week!
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In comment 14127475 Ira said:
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the same people who didn't want to draft Barkley?
Not quite sure what these people have been watching last 5 games. Hand of God.
They were watching the giants go 1-5! Yes Barkley is great but IMO the future would look a hell of a lot brighter if we were going to start a new QB next week!
Look at the Philly game, Barkley was unbelievable and we got trampled
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looks like we drafted the best player.. We have a solid LG out of the draft as well.. they were stuck with too many bad pieces from previous regime so it was a multi year fix.. Omameh is bad and Stewart was overpaid but neither are going to restrict us going forward.. Couple of OL coming this off season and with out talent on skill position, the next QB will look good regardless.. SB was simply too good to pass up for the QBs that were remaining.
How many playoff games did Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson and Erick Dickerson win? You either need a good QB or an amazing defense to win a Superbowl. Because they picked Barkley, who I thin is amazing, they are at least 2 years from either. By the way the answer is 4
Talk about cherry picking a stat (and I wanted and still want Rosen), but Emmitt Smith won plenty (aikman was average), Marshawn lynch won a Superbowl,ray rice was Baltimores best player.
QB and defense are important (and more important) but Barkley isnt going to keep them from winning playoff games.
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In comment 14127452 chuckydee9 said:
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looks like we drafted the best player.. We have a solid LG out of the draft as well.. they were stuck with too many bad pieces from previous regime so it was a multi year fix.. Omameh is bad and Stewart was overpaid but neither are going to restrict us going forward.. Couple of OL coming this off season and with out talent on skill position, the next QB will look good regardless.. SB was simply too good to pass up for the QBs that were remaining.
How many playoff games did Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson and Erick Dickerson win? You either need a good QB or an amazing defense to win a Superbowl. Because they picked Barkley, who I thin is amazing, they are at least 2 years from either. By the way the answer is 4
Talk about cherry picking a stat (and I wanted and still want Rosen), but Emmitt Smith won plenty (aikman was average), Marshawn lynch won a Superbowl,ray rice was Baltimores best player.
QB and defense are important (and more important) but Barkley isnt going to keep them from winning playoff games.
Went with rice and lynch because those are very recent examples of importance of a run game
You build long-term through the OL, QB and the defense. So they pick SB (who is a super talent) instead of trading down to get more picks, and then selecting the best QB, OL and DL/DB. One OL in the draft wasn't near enough. I don't believe Gettleman that there weren't good offers for the 2nd spot in the draft. He clearly feel in love with SB and that was that.
Then they stuck with Eli, who was finished several years ago (except for a very few games). Maybe he's trying but it sure looks like he can't wait to get off the field.
And the the trading of Brett Jones (for a 7th) and letting Webb (QB) go make no sense. Jones played OK last season and injuries always happen + a 7th round pick is a total crapshoot. So you keep Jones in case. And you keep Webb around (instead of a useless journeyman backup QB) just to see if the kid develops in ways you don't expect now.
So now we've got an unwatchable team with a terrible QB behind a partly/mostly terrible OL.
Finally, maybe OBJ is a pain sometimes. But I'd take a team of 25 of him any day of the week over the Mannings who never show emotion. OBJ wants to win and he's obviously pissed that Eli (or the game plan) won't through the ball over 5 yards except when the defense falls down.
This season looks worse than last year.
You build long-term through the OL, QB and the defense. So they pick SB (who is a super talent) instead of trading down to get more picks, and then selecting the best QB, OL and DL/DB. One OL in the draft wasn't near enough. I don't believe Gettleman that there weren't good offers for the 2nd spot in the draft. He clearly feel in love with SB and that was that.
Then they stuck with Eli, who was finished several years ago (except for a very few games). Maybe he's trying but it sure looks like he can't wait to get off the field.
And the the trading of Brett Jones (for a 7th) and letting Webb (QB) go make no sense. Jones played OK last season and injuries always happen + a 7th round pick is a total crapshoot. So you keep Jones in case. And you keep Webb around (instead of a useless journeyman backup QB) just to see if the kid develops in ways you don't expect now.
So now we've got an unwatchable team with a terrible QB behind a partly/mostly terrible OL.
Finally, maybe OBJ is a pain sometimes. But I'd take a team of 25 of him any day of the week over the Mannings who never show emotion. OBJ wants to win and he's obviously pissed that Eli (or the game plan) won't through the ball over 5 yards except when the defense falls down.
This season looks worse than last year.
completely agree.. Though I think they should have taken a QB instead of SB. Not only did they *say* they could win with Eli, their moves indicated that they thought this was a win now team. I don't know what to say to that. DG should be fired and Shurm given another chance with a new QB.
Solder
Stewart
Omameh
And this is still a mentally soft undisciplined team
So the new regime so far is not impressive
Let’s see where we are at the end of the season
Just because they didn't pick a QB doesn't mean they are mortgaging the future for make a run this year - and that's exactly what is implied.
They traded JPP for a 3rd rounder, which became Hill.
They let DRC go.
They cut Hart and Flowers
They let Pugh and Richburg walk.
But carry on with a false narrative. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't stop people from typing it.
Just because they didn't pick a QB doesn't mean they are mortgaging the future for make a run this year - and that's exactly what is implied.
They traded JPP for a 3rd rounder, which became Hill.
They let DRC go.
They cut Hart and Flowers
They let Pugh and Richburg walk.
But carry on with a false narrative. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't stop people from typing it.
I know right? It's not like Gettleman dished out 125M+ in guaranteed money on contracts this off-season. This false narrative the Giants tried to win this year is loco.
If Gettleman cut everyone and was $80M under the cap that's what people would look at as being good??
All the contracts given were at positions of need. The Stewart one was a terrible one, but let's not act like they spent money on old vets looking to make a SB run.
You are really going to intimate that? Even you aren't contrarian enough to take that fucking position.
If Gettleman cut everyone and was $80M under the cap that's what people would look at as being good??
All the contracts given were at positions of need. The Stewart one was a terrible one, but let's not act like they spent money on old vets looking to make a SB run.
You are really going to intimate that? Even you aren't contrarian enough to take that fucking position.
What the heck are you even talking about? No one said anything about the money being sent to old vets, not positions of need, or even being terrible.
But spending 125M guaranteed better damn be in the pursuit of winning now, and presumably a Super Bowl.
If the GM just put out that coin to not win now. Yikes.
Even you aren't bananas enough to take that view are you?
We're entering baghdad bob/gene from Torrington territory here
Twitterers, facebookers, "been a fan since the sixties-ers....it doesn't seem to matter.
5 games in. Gotta be trolls right?
Embarrassing.
I know the analytics guys think he's the anti-Christ, but there's something to being an expert in talent evaluation that does us more help now than knowing the game theory from within the ten yard line.
He had a chance at a high pedigree QB. If he lands one in the next draft he will be able to salvage his reputation. If somehow the Giants can't get a QB that has elite upside going into next season, DG will be a goat, and I'm not talking about the greatest of all time.
Jerry in DC : 6:01 pm : link : reply
Fat man saw a chunk of that 125M to mount such a vigorous defense of the guy online.
We're entering baghdad bob/gene from Torrington territory here
I get that people are frustrated, but it is complete madness the way it isn't just intimated, but outright said that Gettleman and Shurmur are incompetent, that because we didn't pick a QB that we don't know what the fuck we are doing, and because we used the cap that we somehow were fiscally negligent?
The ironic thing is - not many people had high expectations this year. JonC has said all offseason that there's no way we could make all the moves we needed to, yet people are flipping out. But let's be honest here, if the GM was an unknown and the HC was from the Belicheck tree and we still had the same results, it isn't like people wouldn't be complaining - they'd be saying that the Belicheck tree sucks and that the GM was a terrible hire - and that would be wrong too. And we'd probably still have to listen to the utter bullshit that Mara made keeping eli a condition of the hirings.
And Jerry, spare me the act about Baghdad Bob. Since you've been back you haven't made a fucking post that isn't there to entirely shit on the team. If you think it is stupid to always defend the team, you should find it equally dumb to post nothing but invective.
And the the trading of Brett Jones (for a 7th) and letting Webb (QB) go make no sense. Jones played OK last season and injuries always happen + a 7th round pick is a total crapshoot. So you keep Jones in case. And you keep Webb around (instead of a useless journeyman backup QB) just to see if the kid develops in ways you don't expect now.
So now we've got an unwatchable team with a terrible QB behind a partly/mostly terrible OL.
It's worse than that. As mediocre as Jones could be, he might actually have been the 2nd best lineman on the team right now behind Hernandez. I thought he outplayed Halapio by a little. And both Greco and Halapio seemed to have trouble calling out protections and blitzes. I think Jones would have been better. There was also nothing to be gained by cutting Webb.
We can complain about DG and the 'regime' all we want. But we have the Dallas problem. An owner involved in football operations. Mara may mean well and I think he does care about the fans. But he doesn't seem to realize how that gets in the way of objective football decisions. GMs have to do unpopular things sometimes.
The irony of this is...we are in this situation because of the backlash against the Eli benching. But one, Mara himself, by his own admission, knew about the benching and probably approved it. Second, most of us who were outraged were outraged because they started Smith and not Webb. There was nothing wrong with taking a look at Webb. Not sure Mara sees things as clearly as an objective, non-owner would.
The fiscal flaw is in a system where the money can roll over, it's better to hold onto it than spend it on bad investments.
Nate Solder, Omameh, Stewart, Latimer, Michael Thomas, and Connor Barwin are all overpaid relative to their play. These are win now moves, 55M of guaranteed money.
Let's revisit this periodically and see what guys on this list are 1) here next year or 2) contribute to a winning season.
Rosters require players of different tenures, cultures, history/backgrounds. Coaching/regime changes especially require rosters that encourage culture change.
Scheme fits/ familiarity
Leadership
Foundation building
Aside from Solder, none of those players have contracts that will limit roster or financial flexibility. And there was no way this team could enter this season without a capable LT.
Rosters require players of different tenures, cultures, history/backgrounds. Coaching/regime changes especially require rosters that encourage culture change.
Scheme fits/ familiarity
Leadership
Foundation building
Aside from Solder, none of those players have contracts that will limit roster or financial flexibility. And there was no way this team could enter this season without a capable LT.
Am I the only one who thinks it's super creepy when people say "narative" when they really mean someone else's "opinion." But narrative sounds more nefarious so let's go with that.
The culture shift has been awesome. Gettleman cut all the mean bad guys. Brought on a bunch of nice old guys, and the team still sucks, regularly folds, and the locker room seems like it's crushing it.
So let's go ahead and put Solder's absolute crap contract aside for now. That's still $20M directly spent to bolster the team in the immediate term on players who aren't part of the future. Which by definition is about now. And that group looks terrible.
But wait ... There's more. Gettleman did guarantee Solder $35M. And Solder has been pretty bad.
I guess Solder satisfied the role of really great guy, but wildly overpaid and gets the QB's teeth kicked in once a game?
The crowd that wanted Eli and/or didn't want a QB selected is going to keep throwing out phony excuses why SB and not the QB was the correct move. They make up their own preposterous narrative to justify the probable blunder. OFC it won't be a blunder if Gmen remain pathetic all year and get the QB.
But without that-- how many times have we heard the ridiculous narrative "The Giants weren't going to be better this year with any of the new QB's anyways?"
These type of points are just so obviously phony. The idea of drafting a Qb was never to win now. But the obvious attempt by the giants by signing Solder instead of a guy like Hubbard was exactly the point. Add in to keep Eli and sign Stewart were all attempts to win now.
The "don't draft a QB crowd" try to falsely change the narrative by saying the G-MEn got rid of guys like Pugh and Richman. This deceptive (or silly) attempt is to try to sweep the signing of Solder and keeping Eli under the rug.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.