And excercising a little patience. Its insane to judge a new coach and GM after 5 weeks of games. They had a 50%+ roster turnover from the Reese days. And while everyone here focuses exclusively on shortcomings, the wisdom of so many moves is overlooked.
- They resisted paying Justin Pugh, who the market rewarded with a 5 yr, $45mm contract with $15.75 guaranteed (Cardinals). Justin has rewarded them with a 51.1 PFF grade. New Regime instead signed Omemah to an affordable 3 year, $15mm contract with $5.6mm guaranteed. Omemah is far more affordable and has had better results on the field (54.5 PFF grade). Thats a solid exchange that deserves praise, not admonishment!
- They let Weston Richburg walk. The market valued him at a whopping five-year, $47.5 million contract with $28.5 million in guarantees (49ers). Richburg rewarded them with a pretty eh 58.5 PFF grade. New Regime was right to let him walk. Their chosen replacements havent been any better performance-wise, but its much, much smarter business decision (Greco makes a cool $1mm and has a 52.7 PFF grade). Again, smart moves deserving praise.
Those are just two important examples of two smart, oft-overlooked decisions.
My point here? Rome wasnt built in a day and everyone clamoring for Regime change doesnt understand the long-term damage thats happens when management changes over and over and over again. You see that long term damage with the Browns, Redskins and others over the last decade. It is an immediate formula for a decade in the basement. It takes time (2-3 years) for new management to bring in guys that fit their scheme and learn their system.
Be patient, BBI. I know its not easy, but take solace in the little victories today (Saquon, Will H, Eli Apples improvement, etc) while waiting for the Big Victories on 2020, 2021 and beyond.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
To get to 1-5, the worst record in the NFL, a broken locker room, and the 37-year-old quarterback getting beat like a bag and on the verge of being benched? And a defense giving up 27 points a game?
Over the dismal o-line? I'd have gone ahead with Flowers, Jerry's renegotiated deal at RG, and Wheeler at right tackle.
Over the part time edge rusher who can't hang onto the ball? Romeo Okwara.
Instead of the overmatched, overpaid and injured WR? Tavarres King.
Special teams contributor making twice as much as necessary? Dwyane Harris.
The calculation was simple: Barkley was the best player in the draft, so they took him, and if it turned out Manning still had what it takes and the Giants (who just went 11-5 one year prior) could bounce back and make the playoffs, they figured Barkley would be a huge help in making a possible run at the super bowl. However, if it turned out Manning was indeed done and it turned out the team was still 3-13 level of terrible, they would be right back near the top of the draft in 2019 with another chance to grab a blue chip QB prospect, in a better position to cut/trade Manning cap-wise than they were in 2018, and they would still have the best player of the 2018 draft on their roster. That's the great thing about the NFL draft: if you fuck up, you'll be right back at the top of the draft the next year with another chance. IMO, they didn't fuck up, they got the best player in the draft, but in 2019 they will still be in prime position to take a top tier QB. They did not like any of the QBs available at #2 in the 2018 draft (or at least thought Barkley was just that much better than all of them) so they didn't take one, simple as that.
They evaluated Barkley to be the best player in the draft and results have proven that that is probably the case, so I don't see how it can be viewed as a failure. Someone with his level of talent/vision/physical ability is not going to just fizzle out when he's 26 years old, so he could very well be an ultra-important piece on a championship team some years from now. Meanwhile he will GREATLY help whoever the next young QB will be.
I'm sure Okwara has all kinds of pelts on the wall and film study secrets to share with Carter.
I can only laugh at Tavares King.
I won't argue on Harris's play, but of course I know nothing of his personality and culture fit.
People are making sweeping statements about incompetence because of this one move. All things being equal, the team would be the same except you'd have a QB instead of Barkley.
Obviously we wouldn't know what record we'd have with Darnold, but it is like people don't really give a shit how impressive Barkley is yet salivate over Darnold.
And because of this one singular move, one where Barkley looks like the real deal forces all sorts of speculation that we chose him because keeping Eli was a condition of hiring a GM and HC. That we are building around Eli a strong team to contend today. That we are "all in" with Eli.
Meanwhile, 60% of the roster and 50% of the starters are different.
One choice at who to pick at #2 has all of these ramifications?? It shouldn't. That it does speaks more about frustration and agendas than actual reality.
I would have gone QB for financial and value reasons, but it's not a tragedy.
But it's comical to consider the 50M guaranteed money spent outside of Beckham was about isntalling the systems or mentoring rookies. That's BS. Those players were brought here to make the team better right now, and to a man it's been underwhelming.
Solder's contract is very bad and he's struggling. Omameh's play has been no better than John Jerry at a marked increase in cost. Kareem Martin has been a non-factor. Latimer has been a non-factor and hurt twice now. Connor Barwin is shot. Jonathan Stewart was shot.
Not one of those moves looks good.
The locker room is as bad as I can remember. The quarterback situation is ugly, both on and presumably soon-to-be off the field.
For as cynical as I can be about Manning, it actually makes me sad seeing him get beat like a bag out there. I would have much rather had Geno Smith be the crash test dummy than Manning.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."
So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?
I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.
There-- hack away.
Quote:
Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."
So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?
I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.
There-- hack away.
First of all, cutting Eli Manning would not have resulted in "extra money" in 2018, it would have actually resulted in $5M LESS in cap room due to his dead cap number being higher than his cap hit. See the link below. The "savings" for cutting Eli will only come from cutting him in 2019.
2nd of all, Chris Hubbard as far as I know has only played RT, not LT, so I guess your plan would have been to keep Ereck Flowers protecting Eli's blindside? I'm sure that would have gone over well.
I don't think Dave Gettleman has been perfect, but I do think you should check your facts before you resort to using ALL CAPS and flaming personal attacks laced with misspellings and grammatical errors.
Giants 2018 Salary Cap - ( New Window )
Quote:
Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."
So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?
I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.
There-- hack away.
My comments on this thread have nothing to do with the QB. I'm simply responding to posters like yourself, that demanded a one offseason turn around, with instant results in the first quarter of the season against the toughest stretch of the schedule.
I'm responding to fans who can't wrap their brains around the notion that a GM and coach felt the best way to build the foundation of their program was to take the best player in the draft, overturn half the roster, and spend cap money on vets they felt were good fits for the scheme, the youth, and the culture.
There is no evidence the locker room is toxic. There's still a diva and a undermining media, but that's not anything new.
Since you felt the need to lump me in with fans you think have their panties in a bunch over the QB, I'll respond to that. This regime was prepared for offensive line challenges. Many teams are dealing with it. They actively started the rebuild of that room and the anticipated challenges are of course present. As a group, they are working through it. It showed signs against Carolina and regressed on a short week vs a hated rival with an outstanding front.
Ultimately, they chose to subject Eli to these growing pains upfront. A veteran who has seen it all, gets them lined up, and understands how to play the chess match. The whole offense benefits from this experience. As does the coaching staff that is only 5 games in together.
Next year they'll bring in a new young QB and that QB will have a better opportunity to succeed early because of this season's growing pains.
Lastly, re: $50 million on underperforming vets. 5 games in vs the stiffest portion of the schedule. In terms of plan though, this "fan" base with this media market in this league demands instant gratification. Some players have a finite number of games left. Coaches livelihoods depend on winning. Season ticket holders are entitled to a "product on the field". From my chair, it looks like the plan was to rebuild on the fly. If you stay healthy and catch a few breaks, your in the dance with a QB who performs well there.
After they add a QB prospect, pass rusher, and tackle to the OL, the team will look much better on gameday.
but it is like people don't really give a shit how impressive Barkley is yet salivate over Darnold.
👍 Exactly. Shit you can't even make a thread celebrating Barkley without getting a response that looks like the following, "but we didn't get a qb".
Jury is still out on Shurmur.
And will note a clear cut demeanor change from several of the posters on this thread from last spring until now...
its not the losing...
Would I have liked it to work out for us to be competitive right now, like other teams have done in the past, turning it around from worst to first? Of course. It didn't happen, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it can't happen. So that hasn't changed either.
Jury is still out for me on Shurmur. Of course all I had was hope during the offseason, what else was there to go on? So I'm a little worried there, now. So I guess that's a demeanor change.
Finally, as far as Eli? I still believe he can play. You're not going to change my mind on that. It's clear that THIS team, THIS coaching, and THIS roster is not a good fit for him. So I guess that was wishful thinking too, and I thought he would shut a lot of people up. I miscalculated that. Shit happens. I believe he can still play.
People who change their mind when new data is available would indicate fresh thinking pending the data is sufficient for a change of mind.
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In comment 14128530 mako J said:
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Such as yourself redundantly blast it over and over and over.
Enlighten us all with what specific players could fill those roles for less pay and perform better against the toughest portion of the schedule within the first five weeks. Oh, and remember, GM Christian, your better options also would have to want to sign here to.
Ohh okay. You are't too bias are you? WHy don't you take a look at another thread trying to blast us fans that preferred the QB? Fans like you -- to me you're mind-boggling. One thread created "FOR EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT NOT DRAFTING THE QB." A day or two earlier "DRAFTING BArKLEY WAS THe RIGHT MOVE."
So over and over others can post but because you have your panties twisted that you don't want to hear contrarian views - you pretend you're not bias?
I've stated I would have not brought back Eli. I would have gotten Hubbard for Tackle and Fulton for Guard/Center instead of Solder and Omamamhe. I think with the extra money for ELi - I could have gotten a FA linebacker and not have had to trade for Ogeltree. And I would not have traded Jones. And I would have drafted a RB in rd 3 or later depending on who was available etc. Thus there would have been no point drafting a 4th rd QB.
There-- hack away.
First of all, cutting Eli Manning would not have resulted in "extra money" in 2018, it would have actually resulted in $5M LESS in cap room due to his dead cap number being higher than his cap hit. See the link below. The "savings" for cutting Eli will only come from cutting him in 2019.
2nd of all, Chris Hubbard as far as I know has only played RT, not LT, so I guess your plan would have been to keep Ereck Flowers protecting Eli's blindside? I'm sure that would have gone over well.
I don't think Dave Gettleman has been perfect, but I do think you should check your facts before you resort to using ALL CAPS and flaming personal attacks laced with misspellings and grammatical errors.
Giants 2018 Salary Cap - ( New Window )
1-- The GMen would ahve had $9.8m in cap space freed if they cut Eli.
2-- In regards to Hubbard-- where are the Gmen going THIS YEAR? If he shows he can't - then we get a guy in fa or draft one the next year. You have to realize that you are not expected to win in 2018 so for a guy like Hubbard you see if he can do it. If he can't you got him at RT for years and he is YOUNG.
If he can't and you had Flowers -- you are seriously talking about what would have "gone over well?" Are you kidding? Please explain how this season has "gone over well" so far. And do you know who Trent Brown is? Are you suggesting players are incapable of learning? Because Trent Brown was primarily a RT and now he's on the Pats as a LT. You don't think there are other examples of a player that started at RT and moved to lT? You see posters liek you all you want to do is bury your head in the sand. We weren't expected to win. DO you get that? Even if our OL stunk -- you still picked up TWO quality OL in FA instead of what the Gmen did by picking up 1.
3-- I dont think you know what you're talking about. Sorry about the typos.
Again posters such as yourself look to deceptively speak of wins and losses. Please stop this bullcrap by trying to change the narrative. The idea of drafting a QB for 2018 should have ben understood that you aren't winnign in 2018. SO this nonsense you and others speak of about how many wins we'd ahve thsi year is irrelevant.
PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU DRAFTED A QB IN 2018 THE IDEA WAS NOT TO WIN MORE GAMES IN 2018. IT WAS TO BUILD FOR THE FUTURE. PLEASE STOP WITH THE PLASE NARRATIVE.
Sure - we can if we get a QB. But you realize QB is the most important position, right? G-Men have to continue to stink, right? If we do-- great we get the QB.
It would be nice to have some sort of control over your own destiny, wouldn't it? If we're good enough to get 6 or even 5 wins this year we may lose enough control.
Coming out of 2 terrible seasons with a highly talented RB and QB will be a great start.
The Giants clear as day then need to invest more wisely in the o-line and not repeat the mistakes of this off-season.
If they build the line through the draft responsibly, this team will be really exciting a year from now.
Please enlighten me with the problem with what I said in my post