6 games into the season, we are now 1-5. We are in last place. We've already established that this football team has absolutely no chance at the playoffs and that they are bad.
We all know we need a QB. Whether you think Eli is done now or are hanging onto him playing another 2 years - we need a QB.
Obviously the more we lose, the better our pick will be.
So, the question is simple. Which of these things do you think are more important to the future of the Giants?
Is it more important to win a few games down the stretch, compromise draft position, but build a more positive foundation before next year with a new coach?
OR...
Is winning games from here on out nothing more than something that will make it harder to draft Justin Herbert (or the QB of our choice come April) and something that is only going to hurt the team long-term?
I'm not suggesting the team intentionally set out to lose games.
My question is just from a fan perspective.
What are you rooting for over the final 10 games? Are you actively hoping the team loses? Are you still hoping they'll turn it around somehow and will get back into the division mix? Do you just want to see wins for "pride" or culture?
It's very, very sad that I am posing this question on October 14th, but... the Giants are putrid. They're a truly awful team in disarray and we very clearly need to figure out who Eli's successor is going to be as soon as humanly possible and we need to figure out how to fix this football team. It is broken and it is broken badly. The only team in the NFL with fewer wins over the course of last year and this one are... the Browns.
And sadly, the Browns are now in better shape than the Giants are. I think that's actually inarguable. I would gladly take their roster and their future over what is here right now.
So - what are you rooting for? What do you want to see happen between now and the end of the year?
This.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong - but that's what the compromise probably is.
Unless we are in love with Herbert or another QB and decide to trade up to secure him. That's also an option - and I do think if you're totally sold on a college QB, you should go and make sure you get him.
I'll never be able to accept being the doormat of the NFL. Could not appreciate it until April at the podium.
this team has no third round pick and a lot of needs. the earlier picks the better
This team will be lucky to match the 3 wins from last year.
I know some want to wait until the 2020 draft to find a QB. To those people I ask what happens if the top two teams in the draft need QB's? They aren't going to trade the pick unless they are absolutely blown away with an offer. The Giants would then risk coming away empty handed while Herbert and Haskins are in year two starting to break out.
I'll never understand rooting to lose for a better draft position when there are so many variables involved. I assume most fans have played some type of sport and did you ever play to lose? Of course not!
If they go 2-14 I would make changes including the GM/HC. Moves were made to compete this year & Shurmur’s career record won’t warrant another year.
And, of course, pray like hell that there's a really good player worthy of being selected #1 overall in 2019. That's where all of our rooting efforts should be entrenched.
Either win the SB or get the highest draft pick as possible.
And, since I don't believe in magical thinking, I know my internal thoughts actually have zero impact upon what actually happens, therefore I am free to ROOT for the Giants to play great while at the same time be satisfied with the outcome (either because they win or they get a better draft position when they lose).
...that's your answer.
And we will then choose the best QB on the Board to replace the recently retired (or fired) Eli Manning.
This is an example of "magical thinking" I was talking about. Do you think "our rooting efforts" creates some form of group consciousness that invades the locker room and influences players via some form of telepathy?
This isnt the NBA. These games matter.
If they go 2-14 I would make changes including the GM/HC. Moves were made to compete this year & Shurmur’s career record won’t warrant another year.
The issue with trading up is the cost. IF the Giants are picking 6-10 they will need to surrender a 2020 1st round pick to move up to the #1 pick. That's the problem as that pick will likely be in the top 15 probably top 10 which will prevent the Giants from address the OL, pass rush, CB, etc.
They can't fire Gettleman and Shurmur after a year. Gettleman inherited a mess and did anyone honestly expect them to fix it in one offseason? They were 3-13 last year. Does anyone remember that? There was a reason they were 3-13 and that was because of a weak roster due to years of poor drafting. With one draft Gettleman has already added one elite franchise player and two good starters in Hernandez and Hill. Carter looks like a future starter at OLB also. Four starters out of 6 picks is a homerun. Lauletta should be a solid and cheap backup starting next year. How can you justify firing him after that? He gave Stewart 3.5 million guaranteed woopty fucking doo.
Barkley is the only one on this team that could start for 85% of the teams?
Holy shit.
If they go 2-14 I would make changes including the GM/HC. Moves were made to compete this year & Shurmur’s career record won’t warrant another year.
Yes, but you have to consider the difference in cost.
I'd rather just have the top pick or top 3 pick than have to sacrifice additional resources to get up there.
I know it worked out with Eli - and like I said in my last post, I do believe if you have full conviction on a QB, you should move up and secure him - but we're already out a 3rd rd pick next year. Say we win 6 games and are picking somewhere in the 10-15 range and have to move up 10 or more spots to get the guy we want - it is going to be costly and put a major dent in the available resources necessary for this rebuild.
I would want us to go get our guy if we really believed in him, but it'd make the process a whole lot easier if we didn't have to sacrifice premium picks to do it.
If they go 2-14 I would make changes including the GM/HC. Moves were made to compete this year & Shurmur’s career record won’t warrant another year.
Basically - would you take 2 wins this year if it cost us a 2nd round pick in next year's draft?
No thanks.
Don't have a stash of draft picks to trade up and don't see them stripping future drafts for this QB class.
Quote:
they have much of a choice. Other than Barkley on Offense there is not a person on this team that could start for 85% of the teams out there.
Barkley is the only one on this team that could start for 85% of the teams?
Holy shit.
Wow
This isnt the NBA. These games matter.
"Promoting losing" by fans internal thoughts? C'mon. My thoughts and your thoughts are not magically transferred to the players.
There's wisdom in knowing when to build for the future.
You know what erodes credibility in the coach and organization? The chirade each week in the post game press conference about how good we practiced, how we have to execute better, how we have to keep working.
Every single man in that building is cringing when they hear it every week.
It's time to see if Laulleta has an NFL calliber arm, and frankly if he's got the goods to be a back up next year. It's time to see if Wheeler and Omameh can build a little confidence if the Giants commit to the run early and often. It's to see if Engram is more productive split outside and not banging around at the LOS.
All of it will come at the expense of the illusion of trying to win.
But realistically, getting a top three pick is necessary for the future.
10 more competitive loses..
As should be the case, we get all revved up for the season during the long offseason... coaching moves, free agency, draft, training camp...
And then by October, the season is already over.
It's worse this year because the NFC East is garbage right now.
I do not want a stupid situation where they win enough to make everyone “feel good” and then either can’t draft the guy they want or have to give up picks/players to move up.
6-10 is just as bad as 1-15, worse because you don’t even get the top pick for your struggles. Just fucking lose and draft well and maybe this team will be on the right track next year.
Just lose baby!
Coach- Shurmur has the right demeanor to straighten out this mess. He actually did pretty well in Cleveland if you compare his 2 yrs there with a LOT of their other years over the last 20. He's worked well within the constructs of several organizations. He has to show me he can weather this storm, keep the ship afloat AND make progress as a team. (better discipline, better play, some wins- make progress towards getting the stench of losing out).
Roster- the single biggest issue is the QB position. That HAS to be resolved this off-season. There was NO WAY Eli wasn't going to be the QB this year because of his contract. The rest of the crap was and is just hyperbole. NEXT year is a different story, whether he plays decently the rest of this year or not. He represents the past, they need to move to the future and its not happening if he's still here.
The rest of the roster just needs time. Its not a quick fix.
Too early for me. I just wanted games that mattered, until the 9 th loss or sooner, I ll pretend they do. Then, yep, root for higher pick.
But won't be bumbed by losses as is the norm.
We had seen it before, with Simms. We were prepared for it.
Unfortunately, we didn't have a good handle on when it would end. Some thought earlier, some thought later. But we all figured that we would ultimately pay for the success that brought us two championships, and in the form of losing seasons.
Well, the bill is on the table, it's time to pay.
Even if we're not adding a QB - why possibly lose out on a much better blue chip player in exchange for some meaningless wins?
Not to mention - who knows how a run might impact the decision making here? These guys likely thought they were a few tweaks from a run this season. The way this season has unfolded might have changed some minds. Do you want to take the risk that their initial estimations are reinforced by a few untimely wins this season?
Who wants to watch the Giants fukkin lose?????
If they had lost more games in 1978 they could have drafted the QB they preferred, Jack Thompson (winner of 4 games in 6 NFL seasons) instead of Phil Simms.
I know that these are exceptions and that the higher the pick the better your chances of success. But there is no "touched by the hand of God" QB available in the draft this year that would make me start rooting AGAINST the Giants after 6 games.
Getting the second, third, or fourth, someone could trade up and take it from you..
I like Herbert a lot, so I'd definitely be pretty pissed about missing out on him due to a couple of meaningless wins.
BUT.. the silver lining is that if we really suck again next year, Tua Tagovailoa will be in the 2020 draft.
That's who I really want - but I don't know if I can deal with ANOTHER year of being one of the worst (if not the worst) teams in football after this.
Let's pretend that the Giants agree with you. If the Giants have the #1 pick and a team like Denver wants to trade up for a QB then the Giants could trade down a few spots while grabbing a 2020 1st round pick as part of the package. The Giants could then take a pass rusher or OT with the pick and the extra 2020 1st round pick could end up being in the top 10 along with the Giants. That would give them two premium picks to get one of the top QB's in the 2020 class. That's a good reason for them to lose.
It’s easy for fans, especially cynical ones to say, “tank” and get a high draft pick, but that’s just gross. Anyone who played sports know that’s a terrible environment. People always look to be inspired, in sports, in life. Play to win every week. You never know what will happen and allow things to run it’s course. Don’t just give up.