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The Evolution of Eli

B in ALB : 10/14/2018 10:28 pm
In the interests of not being long-winded here, I'll make it quick.

Watching Tom Brady tonight, calling protections, calling audibles at the line and having supreme confidence in leading the offense reminds me of Eli back in the days pre-McAdoo.

He was constantly calling the protection, ID'ing the Mike, shifting assignments and calling audibles pre-snap for his backs and receivers. We don't see that anymore and it makes me think that the most recent iterations of Giants offenses are built in stone and leave very little room for Eli to diagnose pre-snap.

And it's apparent when we constantly see the same snap count and cadence, checkdowns and insecurity when throwing the ball. Perhaps Eli functions better when he has more leeway in constructing the pre-play offense based on alignment and personnel.

At this point, he looks robotic under center. He's got his route packages, simple blocking schemes and he's constricted in how he leads the offense. I remember during his best times, he would consistently scan the defense, make adjustments, calm the offense down and play with controlled urgency. Certainly, the OL flux is a serious, if not deal-breaking issue at this point. But Eli seems like a cog in the wheel right now, rather than the driving force behind the offense. That doesn't sit well with me.

Now, everything is urgent and there is little control. The plays are called and Eli runs them - like a robot. I'm not even close to convinced that that is the best deployment of not only this offense in NY, but the QB who is supposed to lead it.

And all that being said, there is no way back at this point. They are beyond the point where Eli takes over, is allowed his calls at the line and the coaching staff (and ownership) will simply allow him carte blanche.

I contend that Eli is a creative guy and one of the smartest tacticians in the game, and he's shown that moxy and ability to command the offense. He's a film guru and has always been an honors student of the game. He may not look like it, but he is most likely the "smartest guy in the room."

That said, he clearly has lost some snap and skill. No doubt. And therefore, confidence. However, I can't help but think that his abilities to read defenses and call it at the line have not evaporated completely. Something isn't right with the offensive construction over the past few years - Eli has been a culprit for sure - but it's not that simple.
I would agree  
PetesHereNow : 10/14/2018 10:34 pm : link
He was always better with a stable run game too, and despite Barkley's superhuman efforts, we still can't block for the run consistently.
You’re onto something.  
aimrocky : 10/14/2018 10:38 pm : link
Heard from someone who works for the national media that Eli’s lost much of his freedom at the LOS. It’s obviously not the sole reason for the offenses ineptitude, but part of it.
I always believed  
TurdFurguson : 10/14/2018 10:39 pm : link
I never know what I'm watching when I'm watching football. There is so much going on with every play that I'm not sure who to blame/credit for whatever goes right/wrong.

That said, not a bad thought about the change in scheme. He looked so much better in the hurry-up with carolina I thought we would stick to that, then the eagles happened and now I dont know.
100%  
CMicks3110 : 10/14/2018 10:41 pm : link
AGREE, there are no option routes anymore. The option route defined the great offenses the giants had from 2007-2012. Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Manningham all thrived in it. Beckham would be a nightmare in an option route type offense. He is robotic because the reads are the reads. Beckham has to get to a spot faster than his defender - and the defender knows the spot. It's amazing the numbers he has put up over the first part of his career -Heck he's on track for 120 receptions and he doesn't even look that good.
Agree with you  
BBelle21 : 10/14/2018 10:42 pm : link
About Eli looking like a cog now. He used to call the Oline protections didn’t he? Now the center does it. Diehl, Shaun, Chris, they all talked about how fast Eli’s mind worked at the LOS. Bet he sees things the center misses. Frustrating situation.
Prince Charles Brady  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/14/2018 10:43 pm : link
17 points??? Yeah, tuff sheet when pass rush gets to ya.
RE: 100%  
j_rud : 10/14/2018 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14128685 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
AGREE, there are no option routes anymore. The option route defined the great offenses the giants had from 2007-2012. Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Manningham all thrived in it. Beckham would be a nightmare in an option route type offense. He is robotic because the reads are the reads. Beckham has to get to a spot faster than his defender - and the defender knows the spot. It's amazing the numbers he has put up over the first part of his career -Heck he's on track for 120 receptions and he doesn't even look that good.


The option routes were also highly unpredictable and created a whole lot of turnovers due to miscommunication. When it was executed flawlessly, yes, it was very difficult to stop. But that was rarely the case. People were calling for Gilbride's head when he "retired", and pining for it is revisionist history.
This is a new revelation  
SHO'NUFF : 10/14/2018 11:19 pm : link
since when did they take all that away from Eli? If true, it absolves him of a lot of the issues on offense. Did they take away the run-pass play options, too?

I don't buy it. If that's the case, why is he still having trouble getting the ball snapped in time?
RE: This is a new revelation  
Mondo : 10/15/2018 1:42 am : link
Has he audibled more than twice this season?
Jerry Reese  
Leg of Theismann : 10/15/2018 3:53 am : link
Should have simply accepted the fact that he knew absolutely nothing about evaluating OL and asked Mara to invest in an assistant GM who actually knew what he was doing in that regard. It's okay, everyone has a weak spot, and that was his, but he never wanted to admit to it or accept it and it resulted in the downfall of this franchise this decade.
Going back to when MaAdoo was the new OC  
joe48 : 10/15/2018 4:30 am : link
Giants went to West Coast offense and changed everything. Eli was never that type of QB. Mara got convinced it would be quicker to change Eli than build the OL.
Giants inability to build an OL for a pocket passing QB has led to 6 years of an enemic offense.. So now we need to move on from thr Eli era, All the arguing is not going to change what has transpired, We have Barkley and a big investment in Beckhamso we need to find a QB and rebuild this team.
RE: RE: 100%  
mattyblue : 10/15/2018 5:20 am : link
In comment 14128714 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 14128685 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


AGREE, there are no option routes anymore. The option route defined the great offenses the giants had from 2007-2012. Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Manningham all thrived in it. Beckham would be a nightmare in an option route type offense. He is robotic because the reads are the reads. Beckham has to get to a spot faster than his defender - and the defender knows the spot. It's amazing the numbers he has put up over the first part of his career -Heck he's on track for 120 receptions and he doesn't even look that good.



The option routes were also highly unpredictable and created a whole lot of turnovers due to miscommunication. When it was executed flawlessly, yes, it was very difficult to stop. But that was rarely the case. People were calling for Gilbride's head when he "retired", and pining for it is revisionist history.


Yeah completely agree with J-rud. The option routes were a huge problem that led to many of Eli’s interceptions. Currently Eli does not throw downfield and often when he does his throws are off the mark, I don’t see how option routes would ever help that.

I appreciate B in Albs take, but I think accepting it’s time to move on from Eli is a given and attempting to figure out what and where it all went wrong is difficult. It’s really hard to do what Brady is doing right now. Very, very few QBs or atlhletes in general are able to compete at such a high level as they get older.
So both mcadoo and  
Les in TO : 10/15/2018 6:13 am : link
Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?
RE: So both mcadoo and  
SHO'NUFF : 10/15/2018 6:44 am : link
In comment 14128903 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?


which would be completely idiotic since Eli was one of the best in the biz.

on the flip side, without any game tape, the league has been onto our new offense since day 1 and has had the jump on us. how is this possible? how can a brand new installed offense be so predictable?

The quarterback. There is 13 years worth of film on his tendencies. They know what type of defenses bother him. They know pressure up the middle means goodnight for Eli since he's not mobile enough to live outside the pocket. They know he'll get rattled when he gets hit.

It sounds crazy, but it's the only common denominator.
The start of all the shit football  
rocco8112 : 10/15/2018 7:03 am : link
was after the 2013 debacle, the team believed that coaching and scheme, the same coaching wnd scheme that brought two titles and one just two years prior, was the main reason 2013 was so bad. It was not the X' s and O ' s but the Jimmy and Joes.

The team forced Gilbride out and told TC to change it up so the Giants went to a new offensive philosophy with McAdoo. That fucked everything up. TC was the best anrI sure miss him now, but that guy was very hit or miss on hiring and promoting assistants. The old offense focused on power running and deep shots fit Eli better than what we have all been subjected too for half a decade. This is not to say the offense was always this bad, there is a myth now Eli has sucked for five years. But the whole team philosophy and priorities changed with that offensive switch and it has been nothing but heartache ever since.


RE: RE: So both mcadoo and  
family progtitioner : 10/15/2018 7:28 am : link
In comment 14128920 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 14128903 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?



which would be completely idiotic since Eli was one of the best in the biz.

on the flip side, without any game tape, the league has been onto our new offense since day 1 and has had the jump on us. how is this possible? how can a brand new installed offense be so predictable?

The quarterback. There is 13 years worth of film on his tendencies. They know what type of defenses bother him. They know pressure up the middle means goodnight for Eli since he's not mobile enough to live outside the pocket. They know he'll get rattled when he gets hit.

It sounds crazy, but it's the only common denominator.


My view as well. It's the "book of Eli". Defenses gameplan Eli, not the scheme.
RE: RE: So both mcadoo and  
Les in TO : 10/15/2018 7:35 am : link
In comment 14128920 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
In comment 14128903 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?



which would be completely idiotic since Eli was one of the best in the biz.

on the flip side, without any game tape, the league has been onto our new offense since day 1 and has had the jump on us. how is this possible? how can a brand new installed offense be so predictable?

The quarterback. There is 13 years worth of film on his tendencies. They know what type of defenses bother him. They know pressure up the middle means goodnight for Eli since he's not mobile enough to live outside the pocket. They know he'll get rattled when he gets hit.

It sounds crazy, but it's the only common denominator.
and Eli is not absolved of responsibility for the decision making on a play by play basis. If he sees defenses getting an edge based on snap count or alignment, Eli’s not a shrinking violet - he should say something to Shurmur or Shula and suggest changes. That’s what 15 year vet franchise QBs should be doing as an experienced leader
Finnaly  
Blueblue : 10/15/2018 8:36 am : link
A good and fair take on Eli. I agree totally
RE: So both mcadoo and  
Blue21 : 10/15/2018 9:00 am : link
In comment 14128903 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?


And Eli wasn't playing well at the end of Coughlin's time with the Giants either. One of the reasons TC was replaced.
RE: RE: So both mcadoo and  
rocco8112 : 10/15/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 14129061 Blue21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14128903 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Shurmur - different head coaches with different systems - have limited Eli’s ability to make adjustments at the line?



And Eli wasn't playing well at the end of Coughlin's time with the Giants either. One of the reasons TC was replaced.


I just do not think this is true. Team could not run the ball for anything, still can't. Eli and the passing game was the team, certainly the Specials were nothing to write home about and the defense was horrid and historically bad in 2015.

The idea that Eli has been the problem ghe past five seasons is in my opinion not accurate. Yes, now it is too late, he was the franchise. Now that he is toast they can't even win games at all, shows how important he really was all these seasons.
I don’t think any of us know what percentage of the blame  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/15/2018 9:10 am : link
belong to the scheme/coach and how much to Eli. At this point, the only way to find out is if someone replaces Eli with the same staff and cast and leads the Giants to wins. Unfortunately we won’t find out because we have nobody capable behind Eli.

I think, at this point and given Eli’s age, it’s probably a more appropriate move rather than changing everything else around him slowly and see. It’s too bad that the management will choose the latter.
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