I see some posts where we can turn this around by next year, and others are talking like it might be the 60's-70's again....
If DG is in charge, how long will it take for him to create a team that is competitive and knows how to win?
Or, is DG even the guy to do it?
2019 will be a losing year but at least there will be hope with a new QB and watching the continued brilliance of Barkley.
:)
There is no way he wins 8 games for the Giants with this OL. I wholeheartedly believe we'd be talking about how quickly the Giants have fucked up a young QB's development right now.
:)
Would be great but 83-86 Giants had a defense that makes a laughing stock out of the current. Plus no FA and cap crunches. LT, Carson, Reasons, Banks plus DL versus today hard to match in 3 years.Had QB in place plus OL players were differnt back then as mentioned here by stretch Os in college today.
If he wins 8 games this year, aint no way hes winning 8 games next year.
That could all affect a rebuild timeline. It does not take nearly as long to rebuild in football as in other sports, nonetheless I think it could be a 2-3 season proposition starting in 2019. Assuming a new first round QB draft pick in 2019, probably a second round OL and perhaps a free agent, that still leaves holes in the pass rush and potentially secondary. That could probably be addressed in the 2019-2020 offseason. Then, of course, giving that QB time to develop.
Realistically, I would say 2021 before the Giants return to contender status, assuming they can make competent decisions in the coming offseason.
+1
I know everyone has their tits twisted right now, but regurgitating the same questions every day will not resolve anything. I understand this is a Giants message board, but enough with different variations of asking if/when is Eli done, the new regime is to blame and how far away are we from completing the re-build.
My suggestion for the rest of the year is to enjoy what is likely the end of Eli's Giants career and enjoy seeing Barkley blossom. Sure, this season will have many kicks to the groin, but I've become numb to them and I suggest many of you do as well. Focus on these few things and enjoy them while you can.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
My thoughts exactly. Chances are they will select a QB in the draft so next season will not be a playoff year unless the veteran mentor has a surprisingly great season. In the offseason sign one of the young OT's (Ja'Wuan James, Donovan Smith) plus sign Mitch Morse for C unless the Giants feel Evan Brown will be ready then sign a cheaper option like Nick Easton who could also play G. If Vernon is gone they should sign OLB Markus Golden. Draft a G on day two plus a developmental OT to groom behind Solder while Wheeler serves as the swing tackle.
2020 is the year where Herbert will be ready to compete for a playoff spot with an improved roster and Barkley entering his prime.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
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But I think 2020 season is what needs to be looked at.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
Rams drafted Gurley in 2015 and Goff in 2016.
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In comment 14129612 Sy'56 said:
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But I think 2020 season is what needs to be looked at.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
Rams drafted Gurley in 2015 and Goff in 2016.
Ok, but the point stands. It didn't happen over night but it can happen in a handful of years.
Josh - not so sure about that.
Their defense as a whole, and their OL, is better than ours.
Throw out the shiny bells and whistles, they are constructed better than us.
You win games by controlling the LOS....we learned this from our teams from 2005-2011.
Darnold, whether he's their guy or not, is really irrelevant in 2018......he's learning the ropes and other parts of the team are carrying the freight.
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But I think 2020 season is what needs to be looked at.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
I will add this.
Their HC is a huge reason for their success.
Anyone think they'd be in the same spot if Fischer was still the HC?
No way.
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In comment 14129612 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I think 2020 season is what needs to be looked at.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
I will add this.
Their HC is a huge reason for their success.
Anyone think they'd be in the same spot if Fischer was still the HC?
No way.
Very true. We had also just added TC. So if Shurmur isn't right then that could really screw things up.
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In comment 14129612 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I think 2020 season is what needs to be looked at.
A new QB. 2 years of getting OL and edge rushing talent and letting them develop. And re-allocating some money to free agents that can beef up the trenches and secondary.
Yup.
I mean look at us back in 2004. Drafted Eli, had RB in place, built up the lines and by 2007 we got to the mountain top.
Look at the current state of the Rams. 2015 drafted Goff, built up their lines before and since then and now 2018 they are the top team in the league per their record at the quarter nearly the halfway point.
I will add this.
Their HC is a huge reason for their success.
Anyone think they'd be in the same spot if Fischer was still the HC?
No way.
No way as well.
When we saw them in London in 2016 for that game, did anyone think the LA Rams at the time were nothing more than a terrible football team outside of Gurley, Donald and their CB that now plays for the Jets? Or did people really think the Rams at that time were a tremendously talented team that was simply was underachieving?
Jeff Fisher was a huge part of the problem, but was getting a pass from folks because he was an "established" coach who had some type of track record that absolved him most criticism.
Blame Eli all day, it still is just wrong at the end of the day. The man is getting shit for protection. The running game only works when the backs "make something happen" and that's why we haven't had a running game for years except for Bradshaw's improvising and now Saquon. We still do not run enough. We still run 11 personnel way too much...
We need to max protect, play Eli under center instead of so much shotgun, establish the running game, use play action, and use extra blockers if we have to. I would welcome a 2TE offense with the use of Solder as the inline strong side TE, Ellison as the move TE opposite him, Engram as an outside receiver rotating with Shepard, and more misdirection plays that give OBJ & SB the option to throw the ball.
Finding a QB seems easier now since defense is becoming illegal in the league, that said the Giants could be in QB purgatory for a decade. The new ninety million dollar leader of the team said in a national interview he would rather live somewhere else and crapped on his teammates while turning all blame from himself. He also has the narcissism vibe that will prove a challenge to any coach or non franchise QB. That distraction will never go away, Good luck in the huddle rookie QB.
One positive is Barkley seems to be awesome and of high character on the field. Glad to read all the optimism, but I expect this team tto be bad for a long time. We shall see.
I want to win some games this year. I am not into the idea of hoping they tank for a high pick. I want to win and I want this next offseason to be devoted to blockers of all sorts. We need to fix this problem and just pray for the best as far as our other shortcomings.
Brady, Brees, Rogers, Wentz, Goff, etc... would all be "toast" if they were in Eli's shoes. This is a team sport and when the offense tries to operate from play to play with only half of the guys carrying out their mission we are going to lose in this league. Scheme also has a lot to do with it. We need more discipline. Throwing the ball is great, but other things need to be established before it can all happen.
Eli has always been an unlikely hero. He's never been considered one of the very best. He just has that it factor. He is a fighter. He is a gamer. He is a winner. Give him a decent opportunity and he can be magic. Again.
When he is gone we will all wonder why Jerry Reese go such a long time to ruin the second half of this great QB's career. Let's just hope that Gettleman can build a much better line by the 2019 season. He should have hats made that say MEGA! Make Elie Great Again!
Elie was never great
I think that’s a major assumption in finding a QB, ask Buf, Cle, KC, Den, NYJ, Was, Minn, TB, LA, SF and Chi how easy it was to find their QB. There is no guarantee that we land the guy we want next year, plenty could happen between now and then. I would rather we had taken advantage when we had the opportunity and have him on the roster now.
If we get an awesome qb that could change, but barring that I think we're in for an extended dry period.
If we get an awesome qb that could change, but barring that I think we're in for an extended dry period.
10 years? And you think Gettleman is the one who is outdated?
So over the top in his dislike for ownership and the GM and yet he calls me Baghdad Bob.
Is there a post from him recently that doesn't focus on how shitty the organization is?
People look at the Jets roster and think that they suck but that's been far from reality thus far. Their OL has been very good which is shocking but true. They're running the ball well and keeping Darnold clean most of the time. According to PFF, Beachum had a perfect pass blocking grade yesterday, not allowing a single pressure. Can you imagine that in a giants uniform? They also found their RT in the 5th round recently who has been playing pretty well this year.
Darnold played a very good game yesterday. I have nothing negative to say about it but prior to that he hasn't been very good at all. That's to be expected with a rookie QB but I don't understand why people are so hung up on this. Not to keep throwing PFF out there but prior to week 6 Darnold was their second worst graded starter in the league with only Josh Allen grading out worse. I'd rather him play QB for us than Eli but it's not like he's out there putting together games like Watson did pre-injury.
Having watched them both now quite a bit I still think Rosen will turn out to be the one we regret passing on as long as he stays healthy.
If you're really down on this management group, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a prolonged down period. 10 years might seem extreme, but I've seen others suggest 5, and they believe that the current management group is making the right moves.
If the right moves get us there in 5 years, it stands to reason that the wrong moves would take around ten to correct.
Personally - I don't know how long, but I don't get the impression the Giants have their act together. I think Gettleman has at least 3 years, and if he's making moves now that don't benefit the team long term, it could easily be 5 years from now before they start playing good football again. I wouldn't discount a .500 or even a winning season in that period, but I don't think we'd have anything resembling a strong (11+ wins) team during that time.
And I hope I'm wrong, because that's a lot of shitty football I'd rather not watch.
It's not like I said 100 years. Some teams are bad for 10 years or longer. Theres nothing special about the giants to preclude them from being one of those teams.
I dont think we'll lose 10+ games every year because there is some variability due to the small # of games in a season. The Redskins are a shitty organization. They make the playoffs once in a while but dont have sustained excellence or any upside. That's where I see the giants heading for a while. We are 6 years in already.
For quite some time, the Giants have been working on the assumption that they're a great org that's just made a few tactical errors and had some bad luck. And that thinking is wrong - the results thus far prove it.
I hope they get someone not previously associated with the Giants to come in and have a long hard look at things, and to give them some advice on what might be going wrong. I doubt they will, but I'm convinced we don't turn a corner until that happens or we get really lucky.
Dallas has a D that is young and very, very talented. And arguably a few upgrades with their outside play-makers from being set for a 5 year competitive run. Personally, I think Dak has enough to be a game manager plus.
The Eagles have a great QB, a quality roster on both sides, a great GM, and an owner who embraces the trajectory of the current game. Hard to see that going away.
The Skins are hard to diagnose.
So just to get in a position to be competitive in our division may create an even longer tail in a turn-around.
But Les is right. The starting point is the QB slot. At this point, if you think the year is sunk, you should root for Eli's benching and giving Lauletta a significant amount of starts. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain...
IMO I see a path that they can be dangerous in 2020. Things have to break right though. They have to think "offense" but that doesn't mean a WR, RB or TE. Going wild for offense is "un-Giant-like."
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if you keep asking the same damned questions.
You are my favorite poster. JonC. OP...Who the fuck knows. What if Barkley blows his achilles and is never the same again? What if we draft a QB in the first round that looks everything like the real deal but folds when the pressure is high. Our franchise is tied to the guy for the next 5 years. What if Lauletta starts after the bye and we go undefeated after?...None one knows shit, just watch and hope.
Appreciate the kind words. I understand wanting a contender right now, but realize it takes a long time and a lot of good fortune to build one.
DG et al made a mistake judging the potential of the 2018 Giants, or he suspected a loser and kept it in house. Either way, they've got seats, concessions, and merchandise to sell so it's up to the fan to put their heart into it accordingly.
Since then, a lot of poor drafting, poor luck, poor self-scouting, poor decisions, have led us to sputter and leak oil to reach what is probably close to rock bottom.
It is going to take time to finish tearing it down, and more time to rebuild enough of the talent in the room to turn it around.
A big issue they have to prove they've fixed is self-scouting. Coughlin's later years had a lot of issues in this regard, Mara and the scouting dept has this issue ... have to pray DG can resolve it, otherwise the pain will continue.
Thanks JonC. I value your opinion and you and Joey in VA didn't seem sold on this team this year and gave a lot of hints that the talent is still lacking. So guess I'm not as surprised that they have struggled so much. Losing to the Eagles in an embarrassing fashion is just a kick in the balls. Makes Giant fans crazy.
Solder to me has been the biggest disappointment. I do like Shurmur and DG a lot better than Reese and McAdoo. Hell...right now I'm just hoping we become mediocre in the next couple of years. Not sure we will be a contender but do think DG and Shurmur will get us to respectability. That just might be my optimism.