NFT: Yankees talk

In comment 14129924 section125 said:

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In comment 14129888 Giantsfan79 said: Quote: In comment 14129875 Keith said: Quote: what happens to Voit? come on you don't figure Voit is going to implode by June? He had a hell of a few weeks with the Yanks but he was never a permanent piece going forward. Why? It is only 2 months, but his AAA numbers suggest it is not an aberration. They tried pitching around him but he seems to may contact all the time and that willingness to go oppo bodes well. Plus he has very good power oppo.

I would give Voit the chance to prove it was for real- though maybe bring in a vet FA who can play 1B as a Plan B just in case.

FIP has always loved him, and he's got a good shot to improve getting out of altitude (though his home/away numbers are about even) and getting some new coaching. I don't know what the ask would be, but at this point it can't be THAT much higher than some of the other arms in the conversation.

In comment 14129925 Dave in PA said:

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Just no

Yeah- I agree with that.

No command, no control- but great stuff otherwise. Can't go 5 innings because his pitch counts get too high.

not a good pitcher. He didn't want to come to New York before, why would he now? Plus I hope you meant he is owed $35 mill for the next 3 years not $35 mill per season.

you would replace Voit and chalk it up to a few good months? They targetted him based on certain analytics, so this wasn't just dumb luck like Shane Spencer, IMO. I think they really like Voit and the job is his.

Unless of course he was a piece in a trade for PG.

most quad-A types destroy the PCL. It's a remarkably hitter-friendly league. The sustainability of his Aug/Sept run will come down to scouting and analytics, not a AAA stat sheet.

In comment 14129937 Dunedin81 said:

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FIP has always loved him, and he's got a good shot to improve getting out of altitude (though his home/away numbers are about even) and getting some new coaching. I don't know what the ask would be, but at this point it can't be THAT much higher than some of the other arms in the conversation.

I think that German Marquez is the better target. Check out his road/home splits.

Just as an aside- the Yanks actually drafted Gray years ago when he was in juco in the top 10 rounds- and thought they were going to sign him, but negotiations broke down as his ask went up.

Gray went to college and added velo- and went at the top of the draft next year.

In comment 14129935 rich in DC said:

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I would give Voit the chance to prove it was for real- though maybe bring in a vet FA who can play 1B as a Plan B just in case.

Oh, hell yeah. They will give both Voit and Bird a chance to prove it. They may be better re-signing Walker because at least he can back up 3 positions and is not just stuck as a b/u 1st baseman.

In comment 14129943 section125 said:

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not a good pitcher. He didn't want to come to New York before, why would he now? Plus I hope you meant he is owed $35 mill for the next 3 years not $35 mill per season.

Didn't Greinke have some mental issues years ago? I think he said then that he didn't think he could handle NY.

I'd rather it be Marquez. Granted, he's the better pitcher so it will cost more, but he could be an ace away from Denver.

I'd trust them to make that call, I'm just not willing to credit either his stretch run numbers or a few throwaway lines fed to beat writers about the analytics guys loving him. My point isn't that he's bad, it's that they're not going to tell us what they actually think of him.

In comment 14129947 Dunedin81 said:

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most quad-A types destroy the PCL. It's a remarkably hitter-friendly league. The sustainability of his Aug/Sept run will come down to scouting and analytics, not a AAA stat sheet.

It was two months, but I did not see his hitting drop off at all. Did you see evidence that he won't continue to hit? Yes. let's see what happens come the end of May and June when he is a known commodity and a 2nd or 3rd time around the league.
Plus his fielding needs to improve greatly.

they expect to compete. Gray may not be in their plans moving forward, however.

Just not as legit as his hot streak indicated. He hit well in the minors and his previous stint in the majors included some bad luck on hard hit balls (or so I recall reading). If I had to guess, I would put him in the 260-280/340-360/420-450 slash line range with 25HRs over a full season.

As for Goldschmidt, it's a one year deal and while the $14M salary is below his free market value, it's not some bigtime bargain. Meaning they shouldn't've have to give up prized prospects to get a deal done. For the right price, Goldschmidt would be a great addition. And if the price is too steep, they can roll with Voit this year and re-evaluate Goldschmidt as a free agent the following year.

p.s.--The Didi injury adds a new wrinkle, but I still prefer Harper to Machado.

In comment 14129954 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14129943 section125 said: Quote: not a good pitcher. He didn't want to come to New York before, why would he now? Plus I hope you meant he is owed $35 mill for the next 3 years not $35 mill per season. Didn't Greinke have some mental issues years ago? I think he said then that he didn't think he could handle NY.

Yep - that is what I was referring to...coming out of KC.

and probably wouldn't be asked to be the headliner. CC was a heart and soul guy, but he wasn't going to be a WC or a Game 1 starter. Yeah the pressure in NY is intense, but it's different coming in as a salary dump versus coming in as a $200 mil signee.

In comment 14129955 Greg from LI said:

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I'd rather it be Marquez. Granted, he's the better pitcher so it will cost more, but he could be an ace away from Denver.

Marquez dominated the second half of the season, including almost all of his start at Coors Field and is only 23 years old. To the Rockies, this kid is like a cooler full of ice water in a vast and lonely desert.

for the next few years. Neither one is likely to go anywhere.

In comment 14129986 Dunedin81 said:

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and probably wouldn't be asked to be the headliner. CC was a heart and soul guy, but he wasn't going to be a WC or a Game 1 starter. Yeah the pressure in NY is intense, but it's different coming in as a salary dump versus coming in as a $200 mil signee.

What they really need is a durable, innings eater with moderate capabilities. A sold #3 to save the BP a bit. If Greinke can be that, I'd be ok. But I presume that Happ will be targeted for signing and that would give them 2 35+ yr old starting pitchers. Not sure if that fits the model.

what will you give me for Chasen Shreve. He wasn't targeted by the Yankees, it was likely a take Voit or nothing sort of counter. Then Voit went on a hot streak which was great.

Bottom line his defense is a huge liability and at best he's a platoon player, but I hope to hell the Yankees have plans to upgrade first.

Serious question. Would probably require some money and maybe a prospect changing hands (Ells is owed $47 and change w/ the buyout, Greinke around $100), but Greinke likely eats innings and gives you at least league-average performance, while Ellsbury probably gives you nothing. I'm not saying I'd do it, I'm saying it's at least a useful thought exercise.

In comment 14130031 Dunedin81 said:

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Serious question. Would probably require some money and maybe a prospect changing hands (Ells is owed $47 and change w/ the buyout, Greinke around $100), but Greinke likely eats innings and gives you at least league-average performance, while Ellsbury probably gives you nothing. I'm not saying I'd do it, I'm saying it's at least a useful thought exercise.

Yanks say no. Why add 50ish million in payroll for Greinke when that money could be better spent on why better players.

In comment 14130031 Dunedin81 said:

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Serious question. Would probably require some money and maybe a prospect changing hands (Ells is owed $47 and change w/ the buyout, Greinke around $100), but Greinke likely eats innings and gives you at least league-average performance, while Ellsbury probably gives you nothing. I'm not saying I'd do it, I'm saying it's at least a useful thought exercise.

Yeah, I do not see paying a #3 $35 mill per when I really don't want to spend that on Machado or Harper who are 25 yrs old.

In comment 14130031 Dunedin81 said:

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Serious question. Would probably require some money and maybe a prospect changing hands (Ells is owed $47 and change w/ the buyout, Greinke around $100), but Greinke likely eats innings and gives you at least league-average performance, while Ellsbury probably gives you nothing. I'm not saying I'd do it, I'm saying it's at least a useful thought exercise.

Probably Ellsbury?

I do like the premise in that it makes sense for both.

bringing their financial responsibility to an even $70 mil or so and the Yanks' to around $77. It could potentially make sense for both sides, especially as they likely collect insurance on Ells's contract.

In comment 14130060 Dunedin81 said:

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bringing their financial responsibility to an even $70 mil or so and the Yanks' to around $77. It could potentially make sense for both sides, especially as they likely collect insurance on Ells's contract.

At that point I don’t think D-Backs have any reason to do the deal. The original swap is fair. Basically the Yanks get Greinke for 3 years ~$50M, which feels about right.

with Frazier and the concussion? Is he going to be healthy to play or is this looking like some sort of lingering problem for him?

In comment 14130019 Giantsfan79 said:

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what will you give me for Chasen Shreve. He wasn't targeted by the Yankees, it was likely a take Voit or nothing sort of counter. Then Voit went on a hot streak which was great. Bottom line his defense is a huge liability and at best he's a platoon player, but I hope to hell the Yankees have plans to upgrade first.

Well, none of the first paragraph is correct. The second paragraph is also almost completely wrong.

The deal was to get IFA money for Shreve- and the Yanks DID target Voit in the deal. One of the YES guys actually mentioned it when Voit first came up and was struggling- so it wasn't an after-the-fact claim.

Voit is not going to win any Gold Gloves at 1B- but neither is Bird.

1B should not be a priority this off-season. SP should be- and Machado if he is willing to come to NY.

In comment 14129859 section125 said:

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He didn't want to come to the Yanks before. He'd be Sonny Gray part 2 with less stuff. Kershaw will cost too much for what is left. Machado is the one guy I would like but I hope Cash does not offer 10 years. Make it 5 for $175 which gives him the chance for a 2nd major contract at 30 yrs old.... but somebody will offer 10.

High end contracts are ruined even further with the buyout concept. Players have convinced the owners not only are they worth insane money (the elite players), but the only way to sign them now is with buyouts.

So Machado can have his cake and eat it too. He can try to get his 8 year monster ontract. But with buyouts he can hit free agency again whenever he wants. So protected with the long term deal, and protected by being able to rejoin free agency, at HIS choosing.

In comment 14129964 Dunedin81 said:

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they expect to compete. Gray may not be in their plans moving forward, however.

One thought here. Let's suppose the Yanks sign Machado and he agrees to play 3B.

The Rockies are seriously thinking about trading Arenado because he will be a FA after 2019. If Machado is the Yanks 3B, the Yanks could build a deal for Marquez around Andujar, who would give the Rockies a very cost effective 3B replacement for Arenado. Obviously, Andujar for Marquez probably doesn't happen straight up- but the Yanks can find pieces to make it work.

In comment 14130019 Giantsfan79 said:

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what will you give me for Chasen Shreve. He wasn't targeted by the Yankees, it was likely a take Voit or nothing sort of counter. Then Voit went on a hot streak which was great. Bottom line his defense is a huge liability and at best he's a platoon player, but I hope to hell the Yankees have plans to upgrade first.

I agree with absolutely everything in your post. I also think that because of his finish to the year, he is given every opportunity to be the low cost solution at first even despite his defense. I dont think the Yanks pull the trigger on a trade for Goldschmidt or whoever until Junish because the Yanks would want to explore the low cost offensive production Voit could add. Which Im ok with. Goldschmidt's age keeps me from trading big prospects for him immediately after Voit finished the way he does.

Florial is head and shoulders my number one target of Yankees youngsters...

I fully expect Yankees to package Andujar, Sanchez, Frazier for a superstar...

In comment 14130424 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14129964 Dunedin81 said: Quote: they expect to compete. Gray may not be in their plans moving forward, however. One thought here. Let's suppose the Yanks sign Machado and he agrees to play 3B. The Rockies are seriously thinking about trading Arenado because he will be a FA after 2019. If Machado is the Yanks 3B, the Yanks could build a deal for Marquez around Andujar, who would give the Rockies a very cost effective 3B replacement for Arenado. Obviously, Andujar for Marquez probably doesn't happen straight up- but the Yanks can find pieces to make it work.

Interesting thought rich. I like Marquez.

In comment 14130433 Shecky said:

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Florial is head and shoulders my number one target of Yankees youngsters... I fully expect Yankees to package Andujar, Sanchez, Frazier for a superstar...

Why would the Yanks trade that kind of package when they can just sign a superstar in FA/

In comment 14130031 Dunedin81 said:

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Serious question. Would probably require some money and maybe a prospect changing hands (Ells is owed $47 and change w/ the buyout, Greinke around $100), but Greinke likely eats innings and gives you at least league-average performance, while Ellsbury probably gives you nothing. I'm not saying I'd do it, I'm saying it's at least a useful thought exercise.

This is the only way I'd want Greinke. Some guys are not hard-wired enough to play in NY Greinke told us he didn't believe he was.We can cite the past few years(As we did with Gray), but what happens when he has a few bad games in a row? I'd take this gamble to unload Ellsbury but, for me,that would be the only way!

Didn't Ellsbury have the same surgery that ARod did years ago on his I don't remember clearly, but didn't ARod miss more than a year rehabbing from the surgery?

I think Ellsbury had his surgery in July or August. If it takes a year, I think there is a legit chance that he and the Yanks agree to be stashed on the 60 day DL all season. He would get paid, the Yanks would get insurance money on the contract, and Ellsbury stays out of the Yankee uniform and off the 40 during the 2019 season.

Let Ellsbury "rehab" in the minors in August/September so that the Yanks can show he is healthy and be able to move him in 2020 since he will have only one year left on that deal. That or they can just eat the deal that off-season since it only costs them one year of salary hit.

most of the year and then become eligible to become a FA the following year? Unless he wants to sign a fair long term deal in this off season I think the Yanks might be parting ways with Didi.

In comment 14129967 section125 said:

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In comment 14129954 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14129943 section125 said: Quote: not a good pitcher. He didn't want to come to New York before, why would he now? Plus I hope you meant he is owed $35 mill for the next 3 years not $35 mill per season. Didn't Greinke have some mental issues years ago? I think he said then that he didn't think he could handle NY. Yep - that is what I was referring to...coming out of KC.

Yeah I believe they were anxiety issues with him.

We've seen enough guys who can't handle it in NYC and I want no part of him. Hell, he himself said he didn't think he could handle it here and didn't want to come so why would anyone expect anything to change with him?

Throw in his contract is this is a very easy no for me.

for Arizona even considering the difference in contracts. Also the point about Greinke having difficulty handling NY is valid.

In comment 14130433 Shecky said:

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Florial is head and shoulders my number one target of Yankees youngsters... I fully expect Yankees to package Andujar, Sanchez, Frazier for a superstar...

LOL....if you expect the Yanks to trade Sanchez you don't understand anything about how they operate.

represents an opportunity to sign him to a multi-year contract at a discounted rate. Something like 5/75.

In comment 14130623 Tesla said:

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represents an opportunity to sign him to a multi-year contract at a discounted rate. Something like 5/75.

Or...the Yanks could sign Machado to play 3B, slide Torres over to SS, and trade Andujar for SP- or move Andujar to DH and trade Stanton.

I suspect that if the surgeons say that Didi won't be back before August, the Yanks cut bait on Didi.

If the Dodgers lose to the Brewers, don't be shocked if one of their first moves of the offseason is to call the Yanks about Stanton. The Dodger successfully reset their luxury tax rate this year (just like the Yanks) and will shed a TON of salary this off-season. They might be looking for a stable star to build around.

The end game for the Yanks this offseason needs to be SP, SP and more SP. LF will work itself out. 1B too. They might need a 2B if they sign Machado for 3B and move Torres there, but 2B can be found rather readily.

I still think the Yanks need a real ace level guy and depth. The best case is to come up with enough SP that Sheffield starts the season in AAA and acts as the team's next man up.

especially if the Sox advance (and even more likely if they win). Machado makes a lot of sense, but his pricetag could be astronomical. We'll see. Like it or not, I don't think they see Corbin as providing that level of excitement.

and Andujar at 3B? That is some pretty terrible defense. But I think it's going to be a very active off season. That isn't necessarily a good thing.

Voit is a defensive liability. Relatively modest sample sizes, but he was a -7 in DRS in < 300 innings. Bird was a -3 in more than twice as many. (FWIW, Goldschmidt was +6 and has been above average defensively for his whole career) Hopefully Voit and Andujar can improve, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

In comment 14130474 rich in DC said:

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Didn't Ellsbury have the same surgery that ARod did years ago on his I don't remember clearly, but didn't ARod miss more than a year rehabbing from the surgery? I think Ellsbury had his surgery in July or August. If it takes a year, I think there is a legit chance that he and the Yanks agree to be stashed on the 60 day DL all season. He would get paid, the Yanks would get insurance money on the contract, and Ellsbury stays out of the Yankee uniform and off the 40 during the 2019 season. Let Ellsbury "rehab" in the minors in August/September so that the Yanks can show he is healthy and be able to move him in 2020 since he will have only one year left on that deal. That or they can just eat the deal that off-season since it only costs them one year of salary hit.

I don't see how they don't cut Ellsbury. Don't the Yankees have 40 man roster problems as it is ? There is no disabled list in the off season. If they keep him, someone else will be left off .Whats the point ? They collect the insurance anyway.

He was in AZ last winter and his bat looked great. Got an invite to spring training. Then he lost most of the season to injuries. Not the first time he's missed.
If he can ever stay healthy and continue to improve the hitting he could be a major improvement to infield defense. I guess this season's injuries reduce his trade value so maybe he gets another shot and could spend most of next season at AAA.

In comment 14132084 TJ said:

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He was in AZ last winter and his bat looked great. Got an invite to spring training. Then he lost most of the season to injuries. Not the first time he's missed. If he can ever stay healthy and continue to improve the hitting he could be a major improvement to infield defense. I guess this season's injuries reduce his trade value so maybe he gets another shot and could spend most of next season at AAA.

Holder maybe has a chance to stick as a defensive replacement but, that’s about it. He was drafted for his glove with the hope his bat would get better. It didn’t.

His future, if any, with the Yankees is as a bit player.

In comment 14132092 Hsilwek92 said:

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In comment 14132084 TJ said: Quote: He was in AZ last winter and his bat looked great. Got an invite to spring training. Then he lost most of the season to injuries. Not the first time he's missed. If he can ever stay healthy and continue to improve the hitting he could be a major improvement to infield defense. I guess this season's injuries reduce his trade value so maybe he gets another shot and could spend most of next season at AAA. Holder maybe has a chance to stick as a defensive replacement but, that’s about it. He was drafted for his glove with the hope his bat would get better. It didn’t. His future, if any, with the Yankees is as a bit player.

This is wrong.

Holder's bat has actually come a VERY long way- his second half in Tampa high A last year and his AFL performance last fall was outstanding. But then he broke a bone in his back during spring training and had some other DL time during the season- and missed a vast part of the 2018 season.

He had 45 ABs in Tampa, which were very good- high OBP, some power. He went to AA, and was not as good in 117 ABs.

He needs a healthy season to show what he can do. It is possible that he gets drafted in Rule 5 simply because defensively, he might be better than many current MLB SS- and the bat has real potential. However, realistically, he needs 2019 to show that he can hit at the higher levels.

Holder is never going to be Torres with the bat. However, a .270-.280 guy with a decent OBP and some lefty power is not a bad profile for a guy who has a defensive upside of contender for a Gold Glove annually.

he lost a brother, he fractured a vertebrae in ST and had other injuries, just wretched. His bat has made some progress; he walked a little more, K'ed a little less (has always had good K rates), showed slightly more power in small sample sizes, though his BA was down by a few points. My point, to echo Rich, is not that he's had an offensive breakthrough but that this year was so terrible for him - personally and professionally - that it doesn't tell you much about what he may or may not be.