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The Kansas Chiefs call Gettleman

JoeyBigBlue : 10/15/2018 10:14 pm
And offer a 2nd round pick for Landon Collins. Would you do it? The pick would most likely be a late 2nd. Why or why not? State your thoughts.
Yes  
Josh in the City : 10/15/2018 10:15 pm : link
Canít justify paying Collins big money.
Like draft night, Gettleman has already turned his phone off.  
bceagle05 : 10/15/2018 10:17 pm : link
Old school, baby. Embrace it.
The Giants should have a sense of what it will take to sign Collins.  
Ira : 10/15/2018 10:17 pm : link
If they don't think he's worth that a trade would make sense.
YUP  
Tom in NY : 10/15/2018 10:17 pm : link
I love the way Collins plays all out, but this team needs to restock the shelves, and paying $10MM to a Strong Safety is not a good use of cap space.
...  
christian : 10/15/2018 10:20 pm : link
I'm asking for a 1st in 2020.
I'd do it  
Optimus-NY : 10/15/2018 10:28 pm : link
He probably did shut his phone off.
No  
Jesse B : 10/15/2018 10:28 pm : link
They need playmakers. Guy has led giants in tackles last 3 years and is a very good player. if they had any semblance of pass rush, or competent FS play he would look even better. Plus eli salary coming off books they'll have plenty of cap space
I do that in a New York minute...  
bw in dc : 10/15/2018 10:30 pm : link
and Collins is a guy I really enjoy playing. And while I really like his game, let's face it - he's not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu.

But I'd be stunned if we got lucky and received a second rounder. That is very generous.
Make the trade.  
Big Blue in MD : 10/15/2018 10:30 pm : link
He is our best safety, and at times is all over the field. But when you watch games and see missed tackles, he is in the middle of a lot of them.I wouldn't pay him top 5 safety money and that is what he is going to want.
no one fleeces Reid  
Banks : 10/15/2018 10:34 pm : link
he is the one that fleeces. He'd probably talk us out of a first round pick, collins, and a steak sandwich for spencer ware.
Iím saying a 2nd round pick  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/15/2018 10:36 pm : link
Because I heard rumors they the Chiefs were willing to give up a 2nd for Earl Thomas.
Impossible to answer without knowing  
Keith : 10/15/2018 10:38 pm : link
his contractual expectations. First, Iíd exchange ideas w his agent and see if I could lock him up at a reasonable rate. If unreasonable, Iíd absolutely take a 2nd.

The reality, youíd be tickled if a 2nd rounder turned into an LC type of talent. Odds are, he wonít.
One thing to consider. Their pick will probably be a very late 2nd  
Ira : 10/15/2018 10:39 pm : link
round pick.
I would want more, like a 4th as well.  
Boy Cord : 10/15/2018 10:39 pm : link
A 2nd and a 4th and itís a done deal. I donít see Collins being at his peak whem the Giants (hopefully) are good again. Plus, he will be too expensive and may be looking to GTFO anyway.
RE: no one fleeces Reid  
Boy Cord : 10/15/2018 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14130511 Banks said:
Quote:
he is the one that fleeces. He'd probably talk us out of a first round pick, collins, and a steak sandwich for spencer ware.


Heís like Obi Wan Kenobi.
Because its prob so late a pick  
chopperhatch : 10/15/2018 10:42 pm : link
Ill take a 2nd and a 4th for Collins and a 6th.
Draft picks are overrated by a lot of BBIers.  
81_Great_Dane : 10/15/2018 10:44 pm : link
A second could be Chris Snee or Marvin Austin.

A late second isn't close to enough for Landon Collins. A late first would make me at least think about it.
RE: I'd do it  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/15/2018 10:45 pm : link
In comment 14130504 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
He probably did shut his phone off.


I know for a fact he doesn't have a phone. He has a pager
Of course you do it.  
KWALL2 : 10/15/2018 10:45 pm : link
Trade everybody except Barkley.

But in this case you dodge the big payday too.
RE: ...  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/15/2018 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14130498 christian said:
Quote:
I'm asking for a 1st in 2020.


And theyíd hang up and laugh.
RE: Impossible to answer without knowing  
jcn56 : 10/15/2018 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14130515 Keith said:
Quote:
his contractual expectations. First, Iíd exchange ideas w his agent and see if I could lock him up at a reasonable rate. If unreasonable, Iíd absolutely take a 2nd.

The reality, youíd be tickled if a 2nd rounder turned into an LC type of talent. Odds are, he wonít.


+1. See if you can lock up LC at a fair price first, and if he wants megabucks, see what you can get for him.
Just another bad fuckin idea  
ghost718 : 10/15/2018 11:13 pm : link
Read alot of them over the years
KC Chiefs 2nd round pick might be  
short lease : 10/15/2018 11:25 pm : link
61 or 62 this year.
That's below value.  
allstarjim : 10/15/2018 11:43 pm : link
So no. Everyone wants to rip on Collins because the team is losing. The truth is he's a damn good safety and he's young. It's a first rounder for him if we are talking to the Chiefs, who are going to pick in the late 20's or later.
He is a damn good safety, I don't think otherwise  
jcn56 : 10/15/2018 11:53 pm : link
but the way things are going, he might be more luxury than need.

Although to be honest, if he gets a big deal on the FA market, we're likely to get at least a 4th round pick back. This might be a case where we're better off hanging on to him and then letting him walk than trading him, if only to see where the team is in another year.
RE: Of course you do it.  
Go Terps : 10/16/2018 12:08 am : link
In comment 14130535 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Trade everybody except Barkley.

But in this case you dodge the big payday too.


This. Anyone not named Barkley that can be traded under the salary cap should be if the opportunity arises.
The sharks smell blood in the water ....  
Manny in CA : 10/16/2018 12:20 am : link

Don't blame them, it's their nature.

No...  
prdave73 : 10/16/2018 12:22 am : link
dumb even thinking about it. We just need more talented players like him..
RE: Iím saying a 2nd round pick  
bw in dc : 10/16/2018 12:53 am : link
In comment 14130513 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Because I heard rumors they the Chiefs were willing to give up a 2nd for Earl Thomas.


Well, youíd be getting the best safety of his generation. And only 29. Collins isnít in Thomasís league yet. (Yes, I know he just destroyed his leg.)

So if KC values ET as a second rounder my guess is theyíd take a third or lower for LC. Granted, values can change based on the situation and how desperate KC is.
Does it even matter at this point  
giantsFC : 10/16/2018 2:08 am : link
The giants defense has had no identify since Strahan, tuck, osi all departed. Itís time to just start from scratch.

Collins is good but he is a strong safety. Not exactly a position to build a defensive dynasty around.
I donít understand the need to trade the few good players we have  
Bleedblue10 : 10/16/2018 2:23 am : link
In the hopes we can use the draft pick on a player hopefully as good. Weíre a team severely lacking in talent letís hold on to the little bit we do have. Gonna have to do this rebuild the old fashion way if we want it to work
I'd like to keep LC  
English Alaister : 10/16/2018 4:55 am : link
but truthfully I think he's going to ask for more than I'd want to part with for a SS.

I think I'd take a 2nd, even a low one.
Keep in mind that Collins  
Diver_Down : 10/16/2018 6:53 am : link
may have fallen out of favor with DG and Shurmur. Many only look at the on the field product but never consider the intangibles. Collins was openly criticizing Apple through the media last season. DG and Shurmur have both made statements that he should not have done so. With Collins not being their guy, he needs to toe the line both on and off the field if he wants to be rewarded with a second contract here.

The problem with in season trades is that it signals to the rest of the team that the organization is surrendering the season. It makes it more difficult to have the remaining players to continue to give 100%. Expect to see more business decisions as the season goes on.
Unless thereís a cliff heís fallen off that we are unaware of,  
Big Blue '56 : 10/16/2018 7:20 am : link
no way you let go of an all-pro level S. We have some nice YOUNG talent here in a quick turnaround league, you donít let your young talent go.

jcn had it right. You sign him or if you canít, youíll most likely get a 4th in compensation. Some teams have even gotten a 3rd.

Trading him for anything other than a first is an absolute no-no, imv
For all the people  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/16/2018 7:33 am : link
Saying this is stupid, Sy suggested Collins and Shepard be traded for draft capital in the Eagles game review. I donít see anyone calling him stupid.
RE: Keep in mind that Collins  
jcn56 : 10/16/2018 7:37 am : link
In comment 14130706 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
may have fallen out of favor with DG and Shurmur. Many only look at the on the field product but never consider the intangibles. Collins was openly criticizing Apple through the media last season. DG and Shurmur have both made statements that he should not have done so. With Collins not being their guy, he needs to toe the line both on and off the field if he wants to be rewarded with a second contract here.

The problem with in season trades is that it signals to the rest of the team that the organization is surrendering the season. It makes it more difficult to have the remaining players to continue to give 100%. Expect to see more business decisions as the season goes on.


If Gettleman makes decisions based on situations like that, then we certainly have the wrong guy for the job. I'm pretty sure we've already seen enough to know that, but this would confirm it. Trading Collins because he criticized an awful, completely off the rail Apple in a season where the whole team was unraveling shouldn't be held against him.
Yes, Take It  
Rong5611 : 10/16/2018 7:40 am : link
We won't be able to pay him. We're committed to Beckham, need money for OL.
RE: For all the people  
Big Blue '56 : 10/16/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 14130717 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Saying this is stupid, Sy suggested Collins and Shepard be traded for draft capital in the Eagles game review. I donít see anyone calling him stupid.


Firstly, Syís da man. Secondly, no disrespect to Sy, but who in their right minds reads game reviews after a game like that? :)

Seriously, many may not have bothered to read the review, so we wouldnít have known what Sy wrote about them.

This team has 32-33(?) new faces. Give Gettleman time. Sheesh
Anyone who says no  
arniefez : 10/16/2018 7:48 am : link
doesn't understand the salary cap and the business side of the NFL. KC's 2nd pick is going to be late in the round but of course the Giants should do that. Collins is going to be way over paid on his next contract. The Giants already have too many of those.
RE: For all the people  
bw in dc : 10/16/2018 7:56 am : link
In comment 14130717 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Saying this is stupid, Sy suggested Collins and Shepard be traded for draft capital in the Eagles game review. I donít see anyone calling him stupid.


That was very interesting. I didnít see that coming from Sy. But itís a good thought if you need to stockpile more draft picks to get younger and acquire more depth. Typically, itís not hard to find SS.

What else was interesting - on a different note than this topic - was Syís evaluation of OBJ. Said the all-22 is showing OBJ struggling to get separation on any consistent basis. Too much dancing and not enough explosion into his routes/cuts.

Hell, at this point, Iíd be floating trial balloons out there to see league interest before the Oct 30 trade deadline.
I would take the  
Essex : 10/16/2018 8:03 am : link
Hot dog, Knish, and bag of donoughts for Landon.
RE: Anyone who says no  
Big Blue '56 : 10/16/2018 8:11 am : link
In comment 14130729 arniefez said:
Quote:
doesn't understand the salary cap and the business side of the NFL. KC's 2nd pick is going to be late in the round but of course the Giants should do that. Collins is going to be way over paid on his next contract. The Giants already have too many of those.


Yes, youíre right of course. We donít understand the salary cap. I mean after all, NO ONE in this league is overpaid, just our guys. Market value in todayís NFL is only out of whack for our guys.
Yup...  
trueblueinpw : 10/16/2018 9:06 am : link
Get as many picks as possible. I donít want to resign Collins anyway. Heís a liability in coverage and he doesnít seem to be either the thumper in the box or the playmaker in the backfield that we all thought heíd be after his rookie season. He didnít seem like much of a charecter guy last year either. See ya!
RE: Keep in mind that Collins  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/16/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 14130706 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
The problem with in season trades is that it signals to the rest of the team that the organization is surrendering the season. It makes it more difficult to have the remaining players to continue to give 100%. Expect to see more business decisions as the season goes on.


The players play on the field (mainly on defense) sure looked like they had surrendered, so the team dismantling its roster is not going to make them surrender any more than we saw Thursday.

Which players won't give 100%? BJ Hill? Hernandez? Tomlinson? The ones looking for new contracts after this season or extensions on current deals? As we saw last year, no one really "quit" on the season after they were 1-8. We saw the games. They were professional and didn't completely embarrass themselves out there any more than they did when they got to 1-8. In fact, a case can be made that they played marginally better, but were simply outmanned by that point. The joke games they had against the Rams and 49ers when it looked like dudes were mailing it in didn't really exist after that.

Guys like Vernon and Jenkins are likely cap casualties regardless of how they play the rest of the way. So them making business decisions on field is not going to affect their status on the roster for 2019. Conversely, a guy like Curtis Riley cannot afford to act the same way because more than likely he will be out of the NFL or barely trying to make a roster after Week 17.

I would argue that breaking down the roster before the deadline and seeing which guys do in fact check out or make those business decisions as you suggest may happen is a good thing, this way you know which ones to get rid of from the roster after the season is over.
I'd  
AcidTest : 10/16/2018 10:01 am : link
take a low second, but I don't think anyone will offer that much. I agree that he's going to be too expensive to sign after this season. We could get a comp pick in 2020, but even that isn't a given, since it could be offset by other FA signings.
RE: RE: Keep in mind that Collins  
Diver_Down : 10/16/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 14130834 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 14130706 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The problem with in season trades is that it signals to the rest of the team that the organization is surrendering the season. It makes it more difficult to have the remaining players to continue to give 100%. Expect to see more business decisions as the season goes on.



The players play on the field (mainly on defense) sure looked like they had surrendered, so the team dismantling its roster is not going to make them surrender any more than we saw Thursday.

Which players won't give 100%? BJ Hill? Hernandez? Tomlinson? The ones looking for new contracts after this season or extensions on current deals? As we saw last year, no one really "quit" on the season after they were 1-8. We saw the games. They were professional and didn't completely embarrass themselves out there any more than they did when they got to 1-8. In fact, a case can be made that they played marginally better, but were simply outmanned by that point. The joke games they had against the Rams and 49ers when it looked like dudes were mailing it in didn't really exist after that.

Guys like Vernon and Jenkins are likely cap casualties regardless of how they play the rest of the way. So them making business decisions on field is not going to affect their status on the roster for 2019. Conversely, a guy like Curtis Riley cannot afford to act the same way because more than likely he will be out of the NFL or barely trying to make a roster after Week 17.

I would argue that breaking down the roster before the deadline and seeing which guys do in fact check out or make those business decisions as you suggest may happen is a good thing, this way you know which ones to get rid of from the roster after the season is over.


Last year, there were a few players that openly quit on the team and others that made business decisions. We saw Hart and Flowers quit the final week. We saw Apple quit. There were many plays that his lack of effort was called out right or wrong in the media and by teammates. We watched JPP lean against defenders with no effort to disengage.

Now, many of them are no longer on the team, but despite the clean slate that was given, it would not surprise me to see Apple make future business decisions. He already saw an organization unwilling to enforce the forfeiture of the guarantees on his contract so he again can check out and know that he will still get paid next year. Sy alluded to OBJ not getting off the line and in to his routes as quick. Is it his ankle bothering him? Too much dancing? At some point, he has already been paid. He might be unwilling to fight through press coverage as the season wears on.

Jenkins and Vernon are likely to be cap casualties. I had detailed in the Chris Canty thread how it would make sense to deal Vernon before the deadline.
I'm  
Jerry in DC : 10/16/2018 10:20 am : link
Not opposed to trading him, especially if we aren't going to bring him back.

But I dont get this idea that we "can't" pay him. If we're not going to pay Collins, who are we going to pay? Hes a good player who has shown major upside. Hes 25 years old. He seems to have a good attitude. Who are we paying instead of him? What is the point of hitting on draft picks if the feeling is that you can't pay them when they're 25 years old?

Maybe giants fans are subconsciously traumatized from seeing so many players have their careers ended in their mid 20s but these should be his prime years. I get that theres a price on everything and you dont want to go crazy with the contract. I get that we might be far from contending and a complete teardown might be the way to go. But the guy is a good, young player who we drafted. Eventually those guys get paid and we have to pay somebody.
Probably  
Jim Bur(n)t : 10/16/2018 10:21 am : link
We can't pay him & is "Dr. Shoulder Tackle" (drives me nuts).

Ideally, a draft day offer & there is someone sitting there that we like a lot.
Nobody on a 1 and 5 team is untouchable  
Dinger : 10/16/2018 1:38 pm : link
not even Barkley. The team has too many holes and when you've had the recent past that we've had, cleaning house is probably the way to go. Trade Eli, Odell, Sterling, you name it.

This coaching staff shouldn't be safe at all either. 6 games in and on BOTH of your divisional games, you've been out coached and ill prepared.

If the GM cant make improvements how much time does he get?


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