I'll just try and bullet it out:
- as of now is completing a proper u0% of his passes
- Cutcliffe disciple....and his mechanics dont disappoint. Feet dont get too far apart, quicker release than Herbert, can throw the ball with arc better than Herbert. Herbert I think is faster, but Jones is plenty fast.
- makes quick decisions
- progresses through reads quickly, Herbert hasnt shown much in terms of progressing thru reads.
- looks "sturdier" than Herbert. I can see Herbert taking vicious hits and dont know if his build can withstand that at NFL level.
- has the "silent assassin demeanor" about him
I know everybody is in love with Herbert right now, but this might be a Ricky Williams/Edgerrin James situation where Herbert is Williams and has more talent and Jones is is Edgerrin James is the much better football player with comparable talent.
I think both players play against comparable competition (Jones in the ACC, Herbert in the Pac 12), but I think Herbert plays with much more talent.
I would be happy with either honestly, but I think Jones is the much more finished product as a ball player and more of a gamer. He plays in a more pro style offense. He is less raw. Herbert is younger and has a higher ceiling, but not by much. I think the Giants can get this guy and start him day one.
The video I have linked is of Jones as a FRESHMAN. He currently has a 159 rating, 8 TDs and 2 picks. Not the eye poppers that Herbert has, but remember the talent difference in their teammates.
Vs. GT as a Frosh - (
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Jones is checking a lot of boxes for me so far. Great size, clean fundamentals, accurate throws at multiple levels, mobility, leader, and pro ready. All he has to do is keep playing well on out and I think he’ll be in discussions as a top 10 pick come draft time.
Lol Go to therapy and work though it. We can’t hold Dave Brown over the kids head. He wasn’t even born yet lol
Was solid against Northwestern (the Duke D was very good that game on the road), but that was really just one quarter when they took advantage of some NW mistakes and never looked back. But Jones was very ordinary in Durham against VT.
Just need to see more before I even consider stepping on his bandwagon. Not sure he's even the best QB prospect in the ACC. Think Finley still has that title.
Moving on from Eli, it would be nice to draft a guy who is as easy to root for as Eli. Someone who by all counts is an excellent teammate, hardest worker on the team, and isn't a me-first guy who dumps on his teammates constantly.
What do we know about Jones' character?
Also disagree about Jones looking sturdier. Both of their builds are a little lean imo.
But again, I'm really intriged by Jones too. He checks a lot of important boxes and I love the Cutcliffe connection.
Was solid against Northwestern (the Duke D was very good that game on the road), but that was really just one quarter when they took advantage of some NW mistakes and never looked back. But Jones was very ordinary in Durham against VT.
Just need to see more before I even consider stepping on his bandwagon. Not sure he's even the best QB prospect in the ACC. Think Finley still has that title.
I totally hear you man. But the good news is the y play some quality opponents still. UVA this week, rhey also still have Pitt, Miami and Clemson on the schedule. Problem is (and you would see this in the video) he doesnt have guys around him who make plays. So he might still be fighting an uphill battle in the winning dept. Eli won at Ole Miss despite having inferior talent around him compare to his opponents. Im watching all of his games to get a better idea.
Btw, its really nice to talk football with you clear of the rhetoric....just saying. 😉
I'm a Duke guy too, and definitely have seen him as a potential pro since his redshirt freshman year. That said, I'm not sure he's top half of first round. He throws a nice deep ball and has developed quality mechanics. Duke actually does a lot of the pistol formation -- I don't think he's directly under center that often. I think what seems to concern me a bit is, while he definitely has an NFL caliber arm, he seems to lack the zip or velocity on the ball that I see with other top prospects. Maybe I'm downplaying him because I watch him play almost every week, but a handful of other guys -- even guys in the ACC like Deondre Francois (who sadly has fallen off of the NFL map) -- seem to have more velocity on their throws in tight windows.
That said, I like Daniel Jones as a late first to third round pick. But that could change if he plays really well against some of the better defenses Duke will face later this season, like Miami and Clemson, even Pitt. He wasn't great against Va Tech, but it was his first game back from a broken collar bone and the whole Duke team seemed to be somewhat outmatched by a Va Tech team looking to make up for a horrendous loss to a I-AA team. He was awesome against Ga Tech last weekend.
I feel like he could benefit from one more year, particularly b/c he played hurt most of last year, which hindered his progression, but I have a feeling that if he is projected to be a 3rd rounder or better, he'll probably come out.
Also disagree about Jones looking sturdier. Both of their builds are a little lean imo.
But again, I'm really intriged by Jones too. He checks a lot of important boxes and I love the Cutcliffe connection.
Yea but two things:
1) I agree about Herbert and love his cannon, but how far/hard do you need to throw it. Cutcliffe says that Jones has a better arm than Peyton OR Eli. Those guys had plenty of gun.
2) The arc aspect...I have not really seen Herbert go "up and down" with the ball. In other words, he locates his fastball, but misses with the off speed.
Again, Id be fine with either. But not only will we need the first overall pick to take Herbert, but Jones might just be the better overall football player when things are said and done. THAT'S who I want.
Moving on from Eli, it would be nice to draft a guy who is as easy to root for as Eli. Someone who by all counts is an excellent teammate, hardest worker on the team, and isn't a me-first guy who dumps on his teammates constantly.
What do we know about Jones' character?
I went to Duke and am a big Duke football fan. Watch almost every game (some games aren't on tv). From everything I've read and seen, he's a great teammate and equally good kid. I actually randomly met his older sister at a bar in the City during a Duke game earlier this season. She very nonchalantly informed me that her brother plays on the team. I asked who and she said his name. I was like, "as in the QB?" It was a pretty neat conversation, to see things through her eyes. I did try to ask her if he's going to go pro at the end of the year. She just shrugged her shoulder.
I also gave her a tidbit of Duke football trivia that I bet few people outside of my graduating class know, which is that Kyle Shanahan was in my freshman year University Writing Course and played football for Duke his freshman year, before transferring to Texas. I obviously knew who he was back then (in terms of being Mike Shanahan's son). Hard to picture him as a head coach in the NFL now though, and not just as an 18 year old kid who was alright, if a bit cocky.
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and am really surprised to see this. I haven't even considered him as a future pro. Maybe I'm not watching enough other teams...
I'm a Duke guy too, and definitely have seen him as a potential pro since his redshirt freshman year. That said, I'm not sure he's top half of first round. He throws a nice deep ball and has developed quality mechanics. Duke actually does a lot of the pistol formation -- I don't think he's directly under center that often. I think what seems to concern me a bit is, while he definitely has an NFL caliber arm, he seems to lack the zip or velocity on the ball that I see with other top prospects. Maybe I'm downplaying him because I watch him play almost every week, but a handful of other guys -- even guys in the ACC like Deondre Francois (who sadly has fallen off of the NFL map) -- seem to have more velocity on their throws in tight windows.
That said, I like Daniel Jones as a late first to third round pick. But that could change if he plays really well against some of the better defenses Duke will face later this season, like Miami and Clemson, even Pitt. He wasn't great against Va Tech, but it was his first game back from a broken collar bone and the whole Duke team seemed to be somewhat outmatched by a Va Tech team looking to make up for a horrendous loss to a I-AA team. He was awesome against Ga Tech last weekend.
I feel like he could benefit from one more year, particularly b/c he played hurt most of last year, which hindered his progression, but I have a feeling that if he is projected to be a 3rd rounder or better, he'll probably come out.
Excellent write up. Good point about Francois. He has real skills, but they are getting overshadowed by an atrocious year in Tallahassee
From what I’ve seen, it looks like Cutcliffe has the offense mostly predicated on one read throws. That works against inferior squads but much less against heavyweight competition. That’s why I want to see Jones when the better teams play better D based on scheme and talent.
The funny thing about Brown was that Spurrier claimed he was the most gifted QB he ever coached at the time and Brown himself said an an interview that he ran the option offense at Duke and was used to throwing a lot of long balls so coming into Dan Reeves stuffy run first conservative offense worked against everything he was used to at college
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In comment 14130635 Kevin_in_Pgh said:
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and am really surprised to see this. I haven't even considered him as a future pro. Maybe I'm not watching enough other teams...
I'm a Duke guy too, and definitely have seen him as a potential pro since his redshirt freshman year. That said, I'm not sure he's top half of first round. He throws a nice deep ball and has developed quality mechanics. Duke actually does a lot of the pistol formation -- I don't think he's directly under center that often. I think what seems to concern me a bit is, while he definitely has an NFL caliber arm, he seems to lack the zip or velocity on the ball that I see with other top prospects. Maybe I'm downplaying him because I watch him play almost every week, but a handful of other guys -- even guys in the ACC like Deondre Francois (who sadly has fallen off of the NFL map) -- seem to have more velocity on their throws in tight windows.
That said, I like Daniel Jones as a late first to third round pick. But that could change if he plays really well against some of the better defenses Duke will face later this season, like Miami and Clemson, even Pitt. He wasn't great against Va Tech, but it was his first game back from a broken collar bone and the whole Duke team seemed to be somewhat outmatched by a Va Tech team looking to make up for a horrendous loss to a I-AA team. He was awesome against Ga Tech last weekend.
I feel like he could benefit from one more year, particularly b/c he played hurt most of last year, which hindered his progression, but I have a feeling that if he is projected to be a 3rd rounder or better, he'll probably come out.
Excellent write up. Good point about Francois. He has real skills, but they are getting overshadowed by an atrocious year in Tallahassee
From what I’ve seen, it looks like Cutcliffe has the offense mostly predicated on one read throws. That works against inferior squads but much less against heavyweight competition. That’s why I want to see Jones when the better teams play better D based on scheme and talent.
Thanks. Well, the offensive line will likely be manhandled by Clemson, I can almost guarantee that. So I'm not sure that that game will be a fair barometer. Miami could be a good test though.
The only part I disagreed with is the zip on the ball. I think he has plenty and Cutcliffe himself saud he chucks it better than Peyton or Eli.
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The funny thing about Brown was that Spurrier claimed he was the most gifted QB he ever coached at the time and Brown himself said an an interview that he ran the option offense at Duke and was used to throwing a lot of long balls so coming into Dan Reeves stuffy run first conservative offense worked against everything he was used to at college
Throwing a lot of long balls?
All I remeber is this guy never throwing a tight spiral and 75% of his passes were lame ducks or nearly end over end wobblers. I still have nightmares of this disaster.
Pass on this please.
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but one of the things that doesn't get discussed as much is character.
Moving on from Eli, it would be nice to draft a guy who is as easy to root for as Eli. Someone who by all counts is an excellent teammate, hardest worker on the team, and isn't a me-first guy who dumps on his teammates constantly.
What do we know about Jones' character?
I went to Duke and am a big Duke football fan. Watch almost every game (some games aren't on tv). From everything I've read and seen, he's a great teammate and equally good kid. I actually randomly met his older sister at a bar in the City during a Duke game earlier this season. She very nonchalantly informed me that her brother plays on the team. I asked who and she said his name. I was like, "as in the QB?" It was a pretty neat conversation, to see things through her eyes. I did try to ask her if he's going to go pro at the end of the year. She just shrugged her shoulder.
I also gave her a tidbit of Duke football trivia that I bet few people outside of my graduating class know, which is that Kyle Shanahan was in my freshman year University Writing Course and played football for Duke his freshman year, before transferring to Texas. I obviously knew who he was back then (in terms of being Mike Shanahan's son). Hard to picture him as a head coach in the NFL now though, and not just as an 18 year old kid who was alright, if a bit cocky.
You left out some very important details, like is his sister hot and which famous person does she most closely resemble?
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The funny thing about Brown was that Spurrier claimed he was the most gifted QB he ever coached at the time and Brown himself said an an interview that he ran the option offense at Duke and was used to throwing a lot of long balls so coming into Dan Reeves stuffy run first conservative offense worked against everything he was used to at college
Not that I want another Duke QB, but IIRC Dave Brown was the first big Spurrier QB - and the league got wise to his QBs being busts after Brown.
My concern about him is pocket presence. Didn't seem to have a feel for where pressure is coming from, and on a couple of occasions, completely missed a free rusher coming at him. I'm not sure how much responsibility he has for calling protections, but if he does, he missed a bunch of unblocked ER's.
I was expecting to see a QB with a great throwing motion.
Jones has a long wind up like a pitcher in baseball.
The throws are effective as he displays great arm strength.
But he does not have the desired compact overhead release.
This does not mean he cannot be effective but it is a red flag.