Guys, let me preface to say if this was posted, I am so sorry. I did a quick search and couldn't find this. I'll delete with apologies if I missed an earlier thread.
Given our current situation at QB and how loathed McAdoo was by many, I thought this was curious. I don't know the validity of this although the article cites Anita Marks. I am not privy to any inside info but if this was true, it certainly feels like a missed opportunity. Keep in mind, I am not saying we'd be the Chiefs but the QB position would be a lesser concern.
| With all that is going on in Giants world regarding their current quarterback situation, Ben McAdoo, of all people, was once a big proponent of the team drafting quarterback Patrick Mahomes. |
Ben McAdoo Wanted The NY Giants To Draft Patrick Mahomes - (
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Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
He plays on the most loaded offense in the NFL. Saying those guys dont make him better is just foolish.
This. Who knows what Mahomes would be here, but odds are he'd suck because he'd be running the McAdoo offense with Flowers and Hart as his tackles.
Handley was said to be a brilliant football mind too.
Awful head coach.
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Anyone who thinks Mahomes would be lighting it up under McAdoo w Reese building the roster is insane.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
Cause alex Smith isn’t good.
Cause alex Smith isn’t good.
Smith is good, but he's limited. Mahomes bring another, unteachable dimension. A dimension that would help elevate any offense - like ours for instance.
KC has been a perennial playoff team since Andy Reid took over. They have a lot of talent on both offense and defense. Alex Smith was making them look damn good last year until he did what Alex Smith always does. The only thing KC has been missing for the last few years is a QB who can play in a shoot out and can play from behind, which is what PM can do. Let's stop acting like KC sucked until he got there.
Now, if you traded for PM, assuming they agreed. We lose Barkly, Hill and Engram on a team that already has a lot of holes. You're overrating him too soon and not realizing how far off we really are.
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"That said - his offense without Coughlin here seemed woefully ineffective. His play calling was terrible. His play design often lacked creativity or variation. "
I don't know if the play calling is quite as bad now - it's the execution that isn't there and it's constantly taking checkdowns when an additional second or two may see something open up further down the field.
I think Shurmur's play design is a little bit better and more varied but obviously the results just aren't there.
The common issue with both coaches is that they know we are having trouble throwing the football, yet, neither made enough of an attempt to establish the run.
We're actually dead last in the league in rushing attempts this year, yet we have arguably the best RB in the sport. That doesn't quite add up.
We're 9th in YPC. We should be committing to the run more than we are. Mix Gallman in more if need be and give him more carries to take a little of the onus off Saquon if they don't want to keep banging him between the tackles.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Insane is being kind. Moronic McAdoo is a joke. Will be lucky to get another OC job ever again
And for the record, I was calling for McAdoo to be gone long before Eli was benched. I don't care that he wanted to bench Eli. I do, however, care, that he replaced him with Geno fucking Smith and seemingly lied to management.
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Anyone who thinks Mahomes would be lighting it up under McAdoo w Reese building the roster is insane.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
Reid resurrected Vick’s career from the dead as well as Smith’s. It’s an absolute fact he gets the ceiling out of his QBs.
I never said Mahomes is plug and play. I’m saying you’re a fool if you think McAdoo could get similar production in his trash scheme with Reese building a garbage roster around him.
The bigger reason that Reese may not have made the trade is because he screwed up so many drafts, that he needed the picks to attempt to fix his past mistakes.
McAdoo was a coach in over his head. Just because he liked a player doesn't all the sudden make his a great coach in retrospect. I am pretty sure some posters on this board wanted Mahones as well--not sure I want them coaching the team either. He botched handling Manning from the start. He lost my respect when he continually throw Manning under the bus in his press confrences but not other players more deserving. He had an agenda. It is fine if he thought the Giants needed to move on from Manning, but his handling of the whole situation showed a disrepect for what Manning meant to the Giants and his inexperience as a leader.
You can't have it both ways. Frankly I think the Roster isn't that bad (less injuries that ravaged the team a year ago) - coaching is the bigger issue - see the Rams with McVay ve Fischer.
So far I've been unimpressed with both OC and DC. Until they get a good HC, OC and DC - will need a top QB to overcome that.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
6 games. Reminder that after 6 games last year Alex Smith was the MVP of the league.
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
and wouldn't that mean not having Webb as opposed to Hill or Carter?
So really its Barkley and Engram for Mahomes
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In comment 14130958 dep026 said:
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
6 games. Reminder that after 6 games last year Alex Smith was the MVP of the league.
I am ok with taking the risk at this point. I get that things could change, but teams give up their draft based on watching a player play in a level below the pros; after six games, not only do the results show great promise, but most importantly, the eye test shows that this is the next "it" QB. I would make that trade in a second.
They gambled he would be available at their pick, and were ok with picking Engram otherwise. Chiefs traded up out of nowhere to get Mahomes.
McAdoo might have been dead on about the kid, but he also earned his pink slip along with Reese.
Focus on finding the next Mahomes in the draft...
Focus on finding the next Mahomes in the draft...
I think McAdoo got a bad rap here, including from me. He was wide eyed and honest about our most important position. I didn't like it at the time and I still think benching Eli for Geno was idiotic, but in the main McAdoo was right about Eli and sought to change that. His owners knew about that and cut him loose or threw him under the bus because of it. Was he abrasive? Yes. Was his offense to one-dimensional? Yes Was he Vince Lombardi? No. But,, you also have to be fair to the evidence and the evidence was that he diagnosed the problem correctly. It is aslo obvious he was not ok with Flowers. Before this season when they asked him how they thought the right side move would work, he was like can he "bend" on the right side better than the left side. The only difference, according to McAdoo, was that Eli would be able to see it now. So, my point is that McAdoo should never be confused with the coach whose name shall not be mentioned around here. If we did draft Mahomes and he replaced Eli with Mahomes last season, McAdoo is probably still the coach here and who knows how that would have ended. I thought he did a good to great job with little talent in 2016, a bad job with worse talent in 2017 (including the injuries). But never forget he lost his job primarily because the owner threw him under the bus on the Manning debacle.
The Kansas City Chiefs selected Mahomes in the first round (10th overall) in the 2017 NFL Draft.[42] The Buffalo Bills traded the 10th overall pick to the Chiefs for their first round pick (27th) , third round pick, and the Chiefs' first round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
The New York Giants picked #23 in the first round (selecting Evan Engram).
None of the 2018 draft QBs was the equal of Mahomes (41 TDs/10 INTs at Texas Tech in 2006). Andy Reid knew it and so did McAdoo, THAT was the year to go after that elusive "Franchise QB). Reese blew it, big-time; I remember time very well.
There were more than a few BBIers (including me that begged for Mahomes). Just think what this team would be like - Mahomes, OBJ, Barkley on the field at the SAME time !!
The Kansas City Chiefs selected Mahomes in the first round (10th overall) in the 2017 NFL Draft.[42] The Buffalo Bills traded the 10th overall pick to the Chiefs for their first round pick (27th) , third round pick, and the Chiefs' first round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
The New York Giants picked #23 in the first round (selecting Evan Engram).
None of the 2018 draft QBs was the equal of Mahomes (41 TDs/10 INTs at Texas Tech in 2006). Andy Reid knew it and so did McAdoo, THAT was the year to go after that elusive "Franchise QB). Reese blew it, big-time; I remember time very well.
There were more than a few BBIers (including me that begged for Mahomes). Just think what this team would be like - Mahomes, OBJ, Barkley on the field at the SAME time !!
well we would have to give up our 2018 #1 to get him so no barkley
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
it's a QB driven league; so for me it's yes.
The Kansas City Chiefs selected Mahomes in the first round (10th overall) in the 2017 NFL Draft.[42] The Buffalo Bills traded the 10th overall pick to the Chiefs for their first round pick (27th) , third round pick, and the Chiefs' first round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
The New York Giants picked #23 in the first round (selecting Evan Engram).
None of the 2018 draft QBs was the equal of Mahomes (41 TDs/10 INTs at Texas Tech in 2006). Andy Reid knew it and so did McAdoo, THAT was the year to go after that elusive "Franchise QB). Reese blew it, big-time; I remember time very well.
There were more than a few BBIers (including me that begged for Mahomes). Just think what this team would be like - Mahomes, OBJ, Barkley on the field at the SAME time !!
Um, how are they getting Barkley in your scenario?
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
Are you kidding? If the Chiefs offered us Mahomes for Engram, Barkley, Hill, and Carter I'd happily pack their bags.
Only Giants coach to have a winning season in the last 7 years. What does that say about the other two?
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
Are you kidding? If the Chiefs offered us Mahomes for Engram, Barkley, Hill, and Carter I'd happily pack their bags.
You’re even further away from a rebuild. Getting rid of 3 quality players for 1 player at a position where he is doomed to fail is bad football.
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In comment 14130958 dep026 said:
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
Are you kidding? If the Chiefs offered us Mahomes for Engram, Barkley, Hill, and Carter I'd happily pack their bags.
You’re even further away from a rebuild. Getting rid of 3 quality players for 1 player at a position where he is doomed to fail is bad football.
I don't think you're operating in reality.
If that’s a recipe for success..... then we will agree to disagree.
If that’s a recipe for success..... then we will agree to disagree.
A mobile young quarterback with a cannon to throw in the move is a good start. I agree our line sucks, but Mahomes would be a lot more effective behind it than Eli has been.
If that’s a recipe for success..... then we will agree to disagree.
That's a very short term view.
Eli wasn't a success when he took over.
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We would have no OLine, Wayne gallman, Rhett Ellison and a shitty defense with a young QB.
If that’s a recipe for success..... then we will agree to disagree.
A mobile young quarterback with a cannon to throw in the move is a good start. I agree our line sucks, but Mahomes would be a lot more effective behind it than Eli has been.
I am not disagreeing he would give us the opportunity to make more plays. But it would give us more holes to fill hence why I think the rebuild would be longer.
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We would have no OLine, Wayne gallman, Rhett Ellison and a shitty defense with a young QB.
If that’s a recipe for success..... then we will agree to disagree.
That's a very short term view.
Eli wasn't a success when he took over.
Actually it’s the long term view. Trading away quality players for one player makes a rebuild longer.
Plus you guys are assuming success based of what he has done at KC.
I dont get it
thats why you make the trade - are we talking past each other?
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especially Barkley. Finding a quarterback like Mahomes could take decades.
thats why you make the trade - are we talking past each other?
nevermind this post - got you mixed up with Dep. We are saying the same thing
Goff
Watson
Wentz
Wilson
Seem like it doesn’t take decades to find the hot new QB. Again you’re assuming he would have the same chance to succeed here than he has in KC.
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especially Barkley. Finding a quarterback like Mahomes could take decades.
Goff
Watson
Wentz
Wilson
Seem like it doesn’t take decades to find the hot new QB. Again you’re assuming he would have the same chance to succeed here than he has in KC.
in this scenario, he is the same player. Success might not have come as quickly but he would still have the same skills.
And please save me the David Carr syndrome shit. Good players will rise above adversity.
5 years is an eternity in todays NFL