Guys, let me preface to say if this was posted, I am so sorry. I did a quick search and couldn't find this. I'll delete with apologies if I missed an earlier thread.
Given our current situation at QB and how loathed McAdoo was by many, I thought this was curious. I don't know the validity of this although the article cites Anita Marks. I am not privy to any inside info but if this was true, it certainly feels like a missed opportunity. Keep in mind, I am not saying we'd be the Chiefs but the QB position would be a lesser concern.
| With all that is going on in Giants world regarding their current quarterback situation, Ben McAdoo, of all people, was once a big proponent of the team drafting quarterback Patrick Mahomes. |
Ben McAdoo Wanted The NY Giants To Draft Patrick Mahomes - (
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And his relationships with players made Tom Coughlins early run as Giants coach look like he was the best players coach ever.
That is utter bullsh-t. He got hoodwinked by that two-faced John Mara.
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Unless Mahomes knows how to block, its all irrelevant. Youre telling me he is going to make this offense better with no run game and 1 reliable WR and no OLine?
You are absolutely insane.
With Mahomes, we are making a helluva lot more plays down field. If you can't see that than you need to start watching KC games...And I might say we have at least 1 more W.
With a team that has so many holes, I love how people can speak of definites when comparing what a player can do on another team.
Would teams stop playing cover 2 leading to all these downfield plays?
And his relationships with players made Tom Coughlins early run as Giants coach look like he was the best players coach ever.
I don't know how great he was, but he took the Giants to their one winning season in what will be the last 7 years.
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got fired cause he couldnt coach.... period.
And his relationships with players made Tom Coughlins early run as Giants coach look like he was the best players coach ever.
I don't know how great he was, but he took the Giants to their one winning season in what will be the last 7 years.
Did he or the 200 million dollar defense Reese gave him?
Apparently, we shouldn't look for a new QB until we have a good OLine. So, just draft lineman until you find an entire good line, then draft a QB years later until you know that line is solid/good.
Sound strategy, eh?
Yes it would be better, because Eli is clearly done. Does it mean we would have more wins? I cant go there. People keep insisting we would make more plays downfield - forgetting the fact that teams would still play us cover 2. So there would still be 2 safeties deep to prevent that. Our running game would be far, far worse.
What Mahommes is doing is fantastic, hes been amazing this year. However, switiching him to the Giants doesnt guarantee the same results or anything close to it. He extends plays but he isnt really a runner unless its wide open. He would do a much better job of avoiding sacks - but he would be seeing more and more people hit him.
People keep making this about its all Eli's fault is missing the forest from the trees. Replacing Eli needs to be done. But there is a ton more too.
So would I trade a future all-pro RB and a pro-bowl TE for a QB? No I would not.
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You honestly think Mahomes skill set wouldn't make us more productive offensively?
Apparently, we shouldn't look for a new QB until we have a good OLine. So, just draft lineman until you find an entire good line, then draft a QB years later until you know that line is solid/good.
Sound strategy, eh?
Being that I wanted to draft Darnold, I am sure you arent insinuating this is me.
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You honestly think Mahomes skill set wouldn't make us more productive offensively?
Apparently, we shouldn't look for a new QB until we have a good OLine. So, just draft lineman until you find an entire good line, then draft a QB years later until you know that line is solid/good.
Sound strategy, eh?
Worked out really well for the Colts, huh? Luck is amazing and his team will never go anywhere.
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In comment 14131334 bw in dc said:
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You honestly think Mahomes skill set wouldn't make us more productive offensively?
Apparently, we shouldn't look for a new QB until we have a good OLine. So, just draft lineman until you find an entire good line, then draft a QB years later until you know that line is solid/good.
Sound strategy, eh?
Being that I wanted to draft Darnold, I am sure you arent insinuating this is me.
There are other idiots on this board who I've seen parrot that shit on here.
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You honestly think Mahomes skill set wouldn't make us more productive offensively?
So would I trade a future all-pro RB and a pro-bowl TE for a QB? No I would not.
IMO yes, but there also isnt any evidence what-so-ever Engram will be a pro-bowl TE.
There are other idiots on this board who I've seen parrot that shit on here.
Lets put it this way.... if DG thinks Herbert is the goods. You take him number 1 in 2019. If not, load up on the offensive line and look forward to 2020.
IMO yes, but there also isnt any evidence what-so-ever Engram will be a pro-bowl TE.
He should have been last year, and has shown the skills to put up nig numbers in a functional offense.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
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In comment 14131334 bw in dc said:
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You honestly think Mahomes skill set wouldn't make us more productive offensively?
Apparently, we shouldn't look for a new QB until we have a good OLine. So, just draft lineman until you find an entire good line, then draft a QB years later until you know that line is solid/good.
Sound strategy, eh?
Worked out really well for the Colts, huh? Luck is amazing and his team will never go anywhere.
Luck was drafted into a franchise that was just as inept as the Giants are right now. It takes extreme incompetence to foul up drafting an excellent young QB. And even with that extreme incompetence he's carried that team to a .500 record in the playoffs when they had zero right to be there.
Let's not forget that it wasn't just benching Eli that caused him to be Un liked in NY. It was also the idiotic choice to start Geno over Davis Webb which truly no one could understand.
Now that the next coach and GM came along and determined that Webb isn't even worth a roster spot, why do we still need to call this idiotic?
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
He plays on the most loaded offense in the NFL. Saying those guys dont make him better is just foolish.
This. Who knows what Mahomes would be here, but odds are he'd suck because he'd be running the McAdoo offense with Flowers and Hart as his tackles.
Handley was said to be a brilliant football mind too.
Awful head coach.
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Anyone who thinks Mahomes would be lighting it up under McAdoo w Reese building the roster is insane.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
Cause alex Smith isn’t good.
Cause alex Smith isn’t good.
Smith is good, but he's limited. Mahomes bring another, unteachable dimension. A dimension that would help elevate any offense - like ours for instance.
KC has been a perennial playoff team since Andy Reid took over. They have a lot of talent on both offense and defense. Alex Smith was making them look damn good last year until he did what Alex Smith always does. The only thing KC has been missing for the last few years is a QB who can play in a shoot out and can play from behind, which is what PM can do. Let's stop acting like KC sucked until he got there.
Now, if you traded for PM, assuming they agreed. We lose Barkly, Hill and Engram on a team that already has a lot of holes. You're overrating him too soon and not realizing how far off we really are.
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"That said - his offense without Coughlin here seemed woefully ineffective. His play calling was terrible. His play design often lacked creativity or variation. "
I don't know if the play calling is quite as bad now - it's the execution that isn't there and it's constantly taking checkdowns when an additional second or two may see something open up further down the field.
I think Shurmur's play design is a little bit better and more varied but obviously the results just aren't there.
The common issue with both coaches is that they know we are having trouble throwing the football, yet, neither made enough of an attempt to establish the run.
We're actually dead last in the league in rushing attempts this year, yet we have arguably the best RB in the sport. That doesn't quite add up.
We're 9th in YPC. We should be committing to the run more than we are. Mix Gallman in more if need be and give him more carries to take a little of the onus off Saquon if they don't want to keep banging him between the tackles.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Insane is being kind. Moronic McAdoo is a joke. Will be lucky to get another OC job ever again
And for the record, I was calling for McAdoo to be gone long before Eli was benched. I don't care that he wanted to bench Eli. I do, however, care, that he replaced him with Geno fucking Smith and seemingly lied to management.
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Anyone who thinks Mahomes would be lighting it up under McAdoo w Reese building the roster is insane.
Mahomes got drafted into the absolute nut spot. Sick offensive scheme, a year to learn, under a coach w the best resume developing QBs in the league.
Having the right scheme and staff is just as important as getting the right QB.
Sorry, Mahomes isn't just a plug and play QB that is just another cog in Reid's system.
If so, why did Reid jettison Alex Smith?
Reid resurrected Vick’s career from the dead as well as Smith’s. It’s an absolute fact he gets the ceiling out of his QBs.
I never said Mahomes is plug and play. I’m saying you’re a fool if you think McAdoo could get similar production in his trash scheme with Reese building a garbage roster around him.
The bigger reason that Reese may not have made the trade is because he screwed up so many drafts, that he needed the picks to attempt to fix his past mistakes.
McAdoo was a coach in over his head. Just because he liked a player doesn't all the sudden make his a great coach in retrospect. I am pretty sure some posters on this board wanted Mahones as well--not sure I want them coaching the team either. He botched handling Manning from the start. He lost my respect when he continually throw Manning under the bus in his press confrences but not other players more deserving. He had an agenda. It is fine if he thought the Giants needed to move on from Manning, but his handling of the whole situation showed a disrepect for what Manning meant to the Giants and his inexperience as a leader.
You can't have it both ways. Frankly I think the Roster isn't that bad (less injuries that ravaged the team a year ago) - coaching is the bigger issue - see the Rams with McVay ve Fischer.
So far I've been unimpressed with both OC and DC. Until they get a good HC, OC and DC - will need a top QB to overcome that.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
6 games. Reminder that after 6 games last year Alex Smith was the MVP of the league.
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
and wouldn't that mean not having Webb as opposed to Hill or Carter?
So really its Barkley and Engram for Mahomes
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In comment 14130958 dep026 said:
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Our 2017 and 2018 first round picks and probably our 3rd from last year.
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
If you would have came to me today and said will you trade Engram and Barkley for Mahomes, I would do it in a split second. Mahomes is going to the best qb in football for the next decade and it really isn't close between him and some of the younger guys below him, including Goff, Wentz, etc.
6 games. Reminder that after 6 games last year Alex Smith was the MVP of the league.
I am ok with taking the risk at this point. I get that things could change, but teams give up their draft based on watching a player play in a level below the pros; after six games, not only do the results show great promise, but most importantly, the eye test shows that this is the next "it" QB. I would make that trade in a second.
They gambled he would be available at their pick, and were ok with picking Engram otherwise. Chiefs traded up out of nowhere to get Mahomes.
McAdoo might have been dead on about the kid, but he also earned his pink slip along with Reese.
Focus on finding the next Mahomes in the draft...
Focus on finding the next Mahomes in the draft...
I think McAdoo got a bad rap here, including from me. He was wide eyed and honest about our most important position. I didn't like it at the time and I still think benching Eli for Geno was idiotic, but in the main McAdoo was right about Eli and sought to change that. His owners knew about that and cut him loose or threw him under the bus because of it. Was he abrasive? Yes. Was his offense to one-dimensional? Yes Was he Vince Lombardi? No. But,, you also have to be fair to the evidence and the evidence was that he diagnosed the problem correctly. It is aslo obvious he was not ok with Flowers. Before this season when they asked him how they thought the right side move would work, he was like can he "bend" on the right side better than the left side. The only difference, according to McAdoo, was that Eli would be able to see it now. So, my point is that McAdoo should never be confused with the coach whose name shall not be mentioned around here. If we did draft Mahomes and he replaced Eli with Mahomes last season, McAdoo is probably still the coach here and who knows how that would have ended. I thought he did a good to great job with little talent in 2016, a bad job with worse talent in 2017 (including the injuries). But never forget he lost his job primarily because the owner threw him under the bus on the Manning debacle.
The Kansas City Chiefs selected Mahomes in the first round (10th overall) in the 2017 NFL Draft.[42] The Buffalo Bills traded the 10th overall pick to the Chiefs for their first round pick (27th) , third round pick, and the Chiefs' first round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
The New York Giants picked #23 in the first round (selecting Evan Engram).
None of the 2018 draft QBs was the equal of Mahomes (41 TDs/10 INTs at Texas Tech in 2006). Andy Reid knew it and so did McAdoo, THAT was the year to go after that elusive "Franchise QB). Reese blew it, big-time; I remember time very well.
There were more than a few BBIers (including me that begged for Mahomes). Just think what this team would be like - Mahomes, OBJ, Barkley on the field at the SAME time !!
The Kansas City Chiefs selected Mahomes in the first round (10th overall) in the 2017 NFL Draft.[42] The Buffalo Bills traded the 10th overall pick to the Chiefs for their first round pick (27th) , third round pick, and the Chiefs' first round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.
The New York Giants picked #23 in the first round (selecting Evan Engram).
None of the 2018 draft QBs was the equal of Mahomes (41 TDs/10 INTs at Texas Tech in 2006). Andy Reid knew it and so did McAdoo, THAT was the year to go after that elusive "Franchise QB). Reese blew it, big-time; I remember time very well.
There were more than a few BBIers (including me that begged for Mahomes). Just think what this team would be like - Mahomes, OBJ, Barkley on the field at the SAME time !!
well we would have to give up our 2018 #1 to get him so no barkley
So Mahomes minus Engram/Barkley/Hill or Carter?
Yeah, um... no.
it's a QB driven league; so for me it's yes.