apples and oranges. eli's first playoff game was his first full season as a starter. he was basically a rookie. odell's was not.
i realize some on here will go to any lengths to defend him because of his natural talent. but you'll remember the giants won their first superbowl without tiki, and without shockey- two players who everyone believed were key, marquee players, who also happened to be selfish, immature guys.
again, i liked and supported beckham up THROUGH the josh norman debacle (coughlin's last year here). but the bullshit side drama he continually brings has worn thin for me since that point. i probably soured on him after the playoff game where he sucked, and the following season where he was pissing like a dog as the giants were on their way to a 0-3 start to 2017. it is what it is at this point. i am rooting for him to get his head out of his ass, but i feel like i've been waiting for that for literally years now.
People thought Burress was a selfish, immature guy too. Pretty sure he was the one who caught the game winning TD pass.
By the way, Jeremy Shockey caught the game winning TD pass for the Saints the very next year in the Super Bowl.
So the whole "selfish divas never win" narrative is bullshit.
did win the superbowl without tiki and shockey, right? and that was eli's 4th year as a pro. i also don't recall shockey acting like a selfish headcase on the saints, or at least not to the extent that he was here. i also don't recall anyone saying that about burress, at least not up through the superbowl season. in 2008, sure, yea.
i'm relieved to see you you acknowledge that beckham is a selfish diva- just a selfish diva that you really like and think is really good for the team.
I guess you forgot about the way Burress used to skip practices all the time, incur fines, and all of the other nonsense that went on. It wasn't all after the Super Bowl, either.
We can shift and move the goal posts as much as you want. Both guys were called bad teammates, both guys were called selfish. Both guys have Super Bowl rings and have the game winning scores to their names.
I don't need to be best friends with the athletes on the teams I root for. I don't really give a shit if Odell Beckham is a "diva" or not. He's an excellent football player. That's about as much as I care.
The narrative that we can't win with Beckham is manufactured trash. It's a lazy, stupid argument and anyone who actually understands the sport should know that it's not even remotely true.
Burress is Manning's favorite target, but when attendance is taken at practice, and the wide receiver is among the missing, Eli isn't among the thrilled. So, "It's not a great situation," followed by, "Imagine how many touchdowns he'd have if he was practicing."
And because he isn't, "You can't put in too many new routes or plays he's never run before. Tons of different things" they can't try.
"That's a first for me and a first for a lot of people," Eli says. "It's not a situation you like or he likes, having him sitting down and watching us."
A great situation, it's not. "But you've got to do it and there's no point complaining. You just got to make it work," Eli says.
Remember when he "hurt his knee in the shower" the night before?
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below... Link - ( New Window )
Can barely be covered for 2 seconds. If we had a QB that could buy some time with his feet, OBJ would put up numbers that leave no doubt he is the best receiver in the game. He knows this, his shot a Manning was very soft but true. We need a QB yesterday. Who else on the team can actually call out Manning and not be run off? Our weapons are actually better than the Rams IMHO. The difference is Whitworth and Goff.
Remember when he "hurt his knee in the shower" the night before?
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below... Link - ( New Window )
I'd consider the Giants fortunate that Plax didn't blow up in their faces prior to winning the Super Bowl. It was damn close.
That team was good enough and stacked with enough veterans to abide two idiots, though the offense got better once Shockey got hurt. This current team is terrible, and Beckham is probably the veteran to whom the players look up to the most. I think he is a leader on this team, and we're seeing the results.
plaxico stuff.. for some reason all i remember is that green by playoff game and his moments of glory during the 2007 SB run. funny how that works. i also remember him having a good relationship with eli. but yea, revisionist history on my part for sure. i think most of his fines were for being late (not five minutes early and shit like that) and i definitely remember him missing lots of practices in 2007. but i don't recall him being cancerous until the 2008 season when they jumped out to 11-1 before he shot himself.
i'm not saying the giants can't win with beckham. i never said that. but they haven't really to this point, 2016 being the exception and that was on back of the defense. maybe all of this is the fault of a cooked eli.. maybe beckham's head will improve with a rookie QB, or a recycled veteran like david carr or some such. who knows. but he's become one of my least favorite giants of all time, talent aside. if you think that makes me "stupid" or buying into the media agenda against him, whatever man. i have a different opinion than you. big fucking deal. it's not a right or wrong kind of a proposition.
RE: RE: Plax almost didn't play in that Super Bowl
Remember when he "hurt his knee in the shower" the night before?
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below... Link - ( New Window )
Yep. There were problems with Plax before 2008.
A gym buddy of mine was the head of security at NY Hospital the night the brought Plax in. Hes also close with the organization. He told me there is stuff from that night that no one will ever know.
eli was wet behind the ears his first playoff game and i attribute the goose egg in part to that, yea. is it easier to overlook that coz of the two SB wins. absolutely. in the 2016 GB playoff game it was beckham's third year as a pro. he was a veteran, and team leader at that point. granted none of the other WRs were good that day either. i don't give eli any passes for sucking it up in the 2008 season playoff game v the eagles after plax shot himself, and i don't give him any passes for his current level of play either.
beckham to me has looked very average on the field this year. maybe that's all on eli's decline. but it's easier to ignore the off the field nonsense/drama when he's producing and of course when the team is winning. i know he's frustrated and sick of losing. so are all the fans. losing this consistently is rough on everyone. sadly, eli seems used to it at this point. like i said man, i hope he gets it together. im a giants fan. im not rooting against him. just disappointed.
beckham to me has looked very average on the field this year.
eli was wet behind the ears his first playoff game and i attribute the goose egg in part to that, yea. is it easier to overlook that coz of the two SB wins. absolutely. in the 2016 GB playoff game it was beckham's third year as a pro. he was a veteran, and team leader at that point. granted none of the other WRs were good that day either. i don't give eli any passes for sucking it up in the 2008 season playoff game v the eagles after plax shot himself, and i don't give him any passes for his current level of play either.
beckham to me has looked very average on the field this year. maybe that's all on eli's decline. but it's easier to ignore the off the field nonsense/drama when he's producing and of course when the team is winning. i know he's frustrated and sick of losing. so are all the fans. losing this consistently is rough on everyone. sadly, eli seems used to it at this point. like i said man, i hope he gets it together. im a giants fan. im not rooting against him. just disappointed.
It was only Beckham's second FULL season using your halfwit logic.
yards is average for him to me. what the fuck do you want me to say? i expect more from the most talented WR in the game. and yes, i realize eli is a was a shitshow thursday.
yards is average for him to me. what the fuck do you want me to say? i expect more from the most talented WR in the game. and yes, i realize eli is a was a shitshow thursday.
By definition, half his performances will be below average.
I think it's your expectations that need to change, not his effort.
So it looks like Odell Beckham Sr. has something to say about Mara
No, they're not directly related nor mutually exclusive. But that also doesn't make you "smarter" than anyone here. But whatever makes you feel better while you continue being a miserable whiner.
an awesome war of words, but this hasn't played out just yet. I know some people want to claim victory and want so bad to say "I told you so", but nothing is over. I think the Giants still want OBJ and I think they'd sign him again if they could.
You don't claim victory in the 2nd inning of a baseball game.
taking a shot at the owner who showed his faith in his son. He could have let Odell play out the current contract, franchise tag, etc. No.. Mara did the right thing for his son. Short fucking memory. Tell your son to do the right thing by Mara now.
an awesome war of words, but this hasn't played out just yet. I know some people want to claim victory and want so bad to say "I told you so", but nothing is over. I think the Giants still want OBJ and I think they'd sign him again if they could.
You don't claim victory in the 2nd inning of a baseball game.
I want Odell here for his entire career. I want him to finish as the best WR in NFL history. I want him to leave the circus act at home.
People care way too much about being viewed as "smart" or "right" here. That's the real motivation behind most of these arguments. Not the Giants.
Fact. By the way.....Trey Burton sucks. I was right about him.
What was that thing you just said about not winning a game in the 2nd inning? Dummy.
Burton just isn't seeing the same target share as other starting TE's. He's only had the ball thrown his way 22 times and still has 3 scores which is as many as any TE not named Eric Ebron.
I only own him in one league anyway. I own Ertz in every other one, who, is the top scoring TE right now.
People care way too much about being viewed as "smart" or "right" here. That's the real motivation behind most of these arguments. Not the Giants.
And all your sarcastic "HE'S A CANCER! CUT HIM!" posts about Beckham these past couple years... Was that about your concern over the Giants or wanting to feel superior to those who saw Beckham for what he is?
People care way too much about being viewed as "smart" or "right" here. That's the real motivation behind most of these arguments. Not the Giants.
And all your sarcastic "HE'S A CANCER! CUT HIM!" posts about Beckham these past couple years... Was that about your concern over the Giants or wanting to feel superior to those who saw Beckham for what he is?
Cmon, you very much care about how you're viewed - you have tossed me that same line you put out there above about how smart you are and how you're smarter than whoever you're responding to.
You clearly think very highly of your own opinions.
And the sarcastic cancer stuff was much less me than others here.
Besides, you've been doing the same thing non stop for the past two weeks mocking those people, so you're really just playing the same game and aren't any better than any of the people you're criticizing for it.
the last year odell was healthy- he carried the team to the playoffs
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
the last year odell was healthy- he carried the team to the playoffs
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
the last year odell was healthy- he carried the team to the playoffs
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
It's sad in a way - because the same folks are content to call Barkley the next Barry Sanders without the same level of production due to the OL/offensive issues.
Meanwhile, Beckham's coming back from an injury and can't throw the ball to himself, he's been open plenty and not thrown to, and his stats are still very good but not great. And that's enough to warrant the same folks taking shots at him.
It's the lamest attempt at pushing a narrative I've ever seen
No shit his scoring production isn't there. The Quarterback has been junk other than one game, and the OL still isn't very good. A child could see the flaws in this script, but it still doesn't prevent some geniuses from attempting to turn their personal distaste for Beckham into a football issue.
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Eli would've been less of a winner than Odell.
apples and oranges. eli's first playoff game was his first full season as a starter. he was basically a rookie. odell's was not.
i realize some on here will go to any lengths to defend him because of his natural talent. but you'll remember the giants won their first superbowl without tiki, and without shockey- two players who everyone believed were key, marquee players, who also happened to be selfish, immature guys.
again, i liked and supported beckham up THROUGH the josh norman debacle (coughlin's last year here). but the bullshit side drama he continually brings has worn thin for me since that point. i probably soured on him after the playoff game where he sucked, and the following season where he was pissing like a dog as the giants were on their way to a 0-3 start to 2017. it is what it is at this point. i am rooting for him to get his head out of his ass, but i feel like i've been waiting for that for literally years now.
People thought Burress was a selfish, immature guy too. Pretty sure he was the one who caught the game winning TD pass.
By the way, Jeremy Shockey caught the game winning TD pass for the Saints the very next year in the Super Bowl.
So the whole "selfish divas never win" narrative is bullshit.
i'm relieved to see you you acknowledge that beckham is a selfish diva- just a selfish diva that you really like and think is really good for the team.
We can shift and move the goal posts as much as you want. Both guys were called bad teammates, both guys were called selfish. Both guys have Super Bowl rings and have the game winning scores to their names.
I don't need to be best friends with the athletes on the teams I root for. I don't really give a shit if Odell Beckham is a "diva" or not. He's an excellent football player. That's about as much as I care.
The narrative that we can't win with Beckham is manufactured trash. It's a lazy, stupid argument and anyone who actually understands the sport should know that it's not even remotely true.
And because he isn't, "You can't put in too many new routes or plays he's never run before. Tons of different things" they can't try.
"That's a first for me and a first for a lot of people," Eli says. "It's not a situation you like or he likes, having him sitting down and watching us."
A great situation, it's not. "But you've got to do it and there's no point complaining. You just got to make it work," Eli says.
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below...
Link - ( New Window )
I think a lot of pro football players are probably assholes, some are just better at hiding it.
What do yo want? they play a violent game for a living.
None of these guys are coming over for dinner so don't really care about their personalities if they can produce on the field.
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but man Eli has played with some self-absorbed assholes. Talented ones, but wow.
I think a lot of pro football players are probably assholes, some are just better at hiding it.
His brother might be one of the best at hiding it.
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below... Link - ( New Window )
Yep. There were problems with Plax before 2008.
I'd consider the Giants fortunate that Plax didn't blow up in their faces prior to winning the Super Bowl. It was damn close.
That team was good enough and stacked with enough veterans to abide two idiots, though the offense got better once Shockey got hurt. This current team is terrible, and Beckham is probably the veteran to whom the players look up to the most. I think he is a leader on this team, and we're seeing the results.
i'm not saying the giants can't win with beckham. i never said that. but they haven't really to this point, 2016 being the exception and that was on back of the defense. maybe all of this is the fault of a cooked eli.. maybe beckham's head will improve with a rookie QB, or a recycled veteran like david carr or some such. who knows. but he's become one of my least favorite giants of all time, talent aside. if you think that makes me "stupid" or buying into the media agenda against him, whatever man. i have a different opinion than you. big fucking deal. it's not a right or wrong kind of a proposition.
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Remember when he "hurt his knee in the shower" the night before?
His Giants career was also almost over before it started. Remember someone firing shots at a garbage truck out of a car that was in his name, and police seeing someone fitting his description fleeing the scene? If you don't remember, the article is linked below... Link - ( New Window )
Yep. There were problems with Plax before 2008.
A gym buddy of mine was the head of security at NY Hospital the night the brought Plax in. Hes also close with the organization. He told me there is stuff from that night that no one will ever know.
apples and oranges. eli's first playoff game was his first full season as a starter. he was basically a rookie. odell's was not.
i realize some on here will go to any lengths to defend him because of his natural talent.
It's not "apples and oranges". It's you doing the exact same thing you accuse others of doing, which is making excuses for people you like.
beckham to me has looked very average on the field this year. maybe that's all on eli's decline. but it's easier to ignore the off the field nonsense/drama when he's producing and of course when the team is winning. i know he's frustrated and sick of losing. so are all the fans. losing this consistently is rough on everyone. sadly, eli seems used to it at this point. like i said man, i hope he gets it together. im a giants fan. im not rooting against him. just disappointed.
Looked pretty damn dynamic to me. He has gone over 100 yards three out of 6 games.
The only game he looked average was Philly.
beckham to me has looked very average on the field this year. maybe that's all on eli's decline. but it's easier to ignore the off the field nonsense/drama when he's producing and of course when the team is winning. i know he's frustrated and sick of losing. so are all the fans. losing this consistently is rough on everyone. sadly, eli seems used to it at this point. like i said man, i hope he gets it together. im a giants fan. im not rooting against him. just disappointed.
It was only Beckham's second FULL season using your halfwit logic.
Average is a guy like Mohammed Sanu who has 22 receptions all year
He should go back and count how many times he's said that to the press
Average for him???
What the fuck does that mean?
I don't think you understand how averages work.
By definition, half his performances will be below average.
I think it's your expectations that need to change, not his effort.
Link - ( New Window )
thats a lot nicer than most of the people on here are to Mara
So what's your excuse?
Someone should show Odell Senior of his boy spearing a player on the chin on a blinside hit and ask him if thats the same thing as tossing a chair.
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I guess this is where Beckham Jr. gets his "passion" and "fire" from. Link - ( New Window )
So what's your excuse?
Excuse for what? For accurately seeing how this would play out?
I don't know. I guess just being smarter than your average BBI poster. Or in some cases, significantly smarter.
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In comment 14134427 Go Terps said:
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I guess this is where Beckham Jr. gets his "passion" and "fire" from. Link - ( New Window )
So what's your excuse?
Excuse for what? For accurately seeing how this would play out complaining incessantly about every single facet of this franchise?
I don't know. I guess just being smarter more miserable than your average BBI poster. Or in some cases, significantly smarter more miserable.
Fixed it for you.
No, they're not directly related nor mutually exclusive. But that also doesn't make you "smarter" than anyone here. But whatever makes you feel better while you continue being a miserable whiner.
You don't claim victory in the 2nd inning of a baseball game.
You don't claim victory in the 2nd inning of a baseball game.
I want Odell here for his entire career. I want him to finish as the best WR in NFL history. I want him to leave the circus act at home.
Fact. By the way.....Trey Burton sucks. I was right about him.
I don't care about being viewed as smart or right. But I certainly don't merit being called miserable for foreseeing how this would play out.
The question I have is, if I could foresee this with almost no insider info then why couldn't John Mara?
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People care way too much about being viewed as "smart" or "right" here. That's the real motivation behind most of these arguments. Not the Giants.
Fact. By the way.....Trey Burton sucks. I was right about him.
What was that thing you just said about not winning a game in the 2nd inning? Dummy.
Burton just isn't seeing the same target share as other starting TE's. He's only had the ball thrown his way 22 times and still has 3 scores which is as many as any TE not named Eric Ebron.
I only own him in one league anyway. I own Ertz in every other one, who, is the top scoring TE right now.
And all your sarcastic "HE'S A CANCER! CUT HIM!" posts about Beckham these past couple years... Was that about your concern over the Giants or wanting to feel superior to those who saw Beckham for what he is?
Quote:
People care way too much about being viewed as "smart" or "right" here. That's the real motivation behind most of these arguments. Not the Giants.
And all your sarcastic "HE'S A CANCER! CUT HIM!" posts about Beckham these past couple years... Was that about your concern over the Giants or wanting to feel superior to those who saw Beckham for what he is?
Cmon, you very much care about how you're viewed - you have tossed me that same line you put out there above about how smart you are and how you're smarter than whoever you're responding to.
You clearly think very highly of your own opinions.
And the sarcastic cancer stuff was much less me than others here.
Besides, you've been doing the same thing non stop for the past two weeks mocking those people, so you're really just playing the same game and aren't any better than any of the people you're criticizing for it.
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
I'd sell that #13 throwback while you still can.
the year he was hurt- the giants were a disgrace
his first year back- in 6 games- hes still putting up top 10 wr stats- which is not what we are used to, but in the context fine.
so i guess in the world of feelings and emotions and selective interpretation.... people are "right"--- but in football? which is wht i care about.... not really
lot of self pats on back for being "right" going on here...
It's sad in a way - because the same folks are content to call Barkley the next Barry Sanders without the same level of production due to the OL/offensive issues.
Meanwhile, Beckham's coming back from an injury and can't throw the ball to himself, he's been open plenty and not thrown to, and his stats are still very good but not great. And that's enough to warrant the same folks taking shots at him.