anything should be done until after the bye. Having Webb, Lauletta, Tanney, Nassib, Bhomar or Carr wouldn't change my opinion.
Ok if we had Darnold, might be different. But mathematically we can still make the playoffs. I know we won't, but the coaches and players have to believe they can win 10 straight.
I would like to see Lauletta get the last 4 weeks of the season. Keep Eli in until then (this would not change if we had Webb)
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
if Webb was still on the roster fans would be clamoring for him to be given a shot
and the press would be comparing this season to mcadoo's last season
and wondering if schumer would be making same mistake by not putting Webb in.
I still would prefer Lauletta because the weaknesses of Webb can never be fixed. Poor mechanics and afraid of being hit. Eli may have gotten skittish over the last few years....Webb always has been.
that more fans would want Eli benched if Webb was the backup?
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
if Webb was still on the roster fans would be clamoring for him to be given a shot
and the press would be comparing this season to mcadoo's last season
and wondering if schumer would be making same mistake by not putting Webb in.
This makes no sense whatsoever. You think fans would clamor for Webb but not KL?
And fans (which means some media trolls aren't far behind) are already comparing Shurmur to MacAdoo.
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
+1 I have never understood the need for an "experienced" backup on a team where winning is more hoped than expected. Who cares, if Eli gets hurt then we have no shot anyway. And, with Eli playing as he is now we already have no shot. Lauletta needs to be the backup. The reason we don't see him activated is because they know the fans will be booing and calling for Kyle to play (in game). Much different than fans talking about it during the week...
3+ TDs going into the 4th quarter, I want Lauletta in. If we are sitting at 1 and 13, I want Lauletta in for those 2 final games. We should see what the kid can do, even if he shows promise they probably will still go with a QB in FA or the draft
that more fans would want Eli benched if Webb was the backup?
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
I think that since KL is a rookie, has barely had a cup of coffee in the NFL, and is fully entrenched in the scout team, and is third string behind Tanney there is no reason to make a change.
Tanney, is more then likely terrible, and KL is not ready yet.
Webb a 3rd rounder, who would have been the backup, getting 2nd team reps, would be someone who we would all want to see play sooner, rather then later.
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
There is if you feel the rookie cannot effectively operate an offense. You are looking at a number of other players, your play calling, how teams game plan against you etc.
If Webb looked he did in the pre-season in practice last year, Mcadoo did the right thing going to Smith. Watching Webb out there wasn't going to help them learn anything.
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
They played Geno because he was the true backup. He never should have been on the team to begin with, but he was and Webb was the scout team QB. They did not want to throw him out to the wolves.
that more fans would want Eli benched if Webb was the backup?
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
I think that since KL is a rookie, has barely had a cup of coffee in the NFL, and is fully entrenched in the scout team, and is third string behind Tanney there is no reason to make a change.
Tanney, is more then likely terrible, and KL is not ready yet.
Webb a 3rd rounder, who would have been the backup, getting 2nd team reps, would be someone who we would all want to see play sooner, rather then later.
My question is why would we want to see someone who isnt good? He wasnt good whatsoever in the preseason. We couldnt even get a 7th rounder for him. Not one team picked him on waivers.
I know we all want change to the position..... but the heir apparent was not picked in this past draft. Lauletta may gets reps soon but Davis Webb was never the answer. It was just another misdiagnosed pick by Reese.
how many Patriots fans thought they were screwed? Point is not that Lauletta is Tom Brady; the point is that you don't know what you have until a quarterback gets under center.
Shurmur determined that Webb didn’t have what it takes, Â
We have no idea how Webb would have worked out. What was reported was that Webb was very popular in the clubhouse and had a lot of players on O and in the D backfield saying that he threw a beautiful ball.
We have no idea how Webb would have worked out. What was reported was that Webb was very popular in the clubhouse and had a lot of players on O and in the D backfield saying that he threw a beautiful ball.
I would not take the word of our defense on how good QBs look against them. ALL Qbs look good throwing against them.
because everyone wants the unknown. It doesn't mean we shouldn't have released him though. I think it's pretty obvious that they made the right decision. He was awful in games and nobody else had much interest.
It's tough to determine whather Eli is good enough (anymore) to keep around for a more completed re-build, given the fact that he doesn't have time to play the position and run the offense.
Before a Change, you need to feel like you've exhausted the "evaluation" of Eli about whether He can be a winning caliber player when you have an adequate team around him.
for the full season from the Jets. That's why he chose them over other offers.
So it's not accurate to say that no one wanted him.
I wasn't that impressed with his preseason. But he showed something vs the Lions. And it would be more interesting to see him on the field proving it one way or the other than what we're being shown.
Just the fact that Webb was cut by Gettleman doesn't sway me much. Romeo Okwara, as an example, would have been both cheaper and more useful than Connor Barwin. DG has been intent, to a fault, with putting his own stamp.
for the full season from the Jets. That's why he chose them over other offers.
So it's not accurate to say that no one wanted him.
.
Every team had a chance to pick him off waivers. No one did.
There are many players who clear waivers and then sign. A guaranteed full year salary, which Webb has, is not the norm for a PS player. The Jets are effectively paying him to be their #3 QB for this season, albeit not on the 53-man.
nobody wanted him as anything more than a PS project. Every team had the opportunity to get him as a backup and nobody wanted him. He's a long shot project, not what the Giants wanted or needed.
If it's Webb, Lualetta, Smith or Tanney -- if you're on the fence about Manning, you assume the veteran with plenty of gas in the tank is going to look better than that cast of characters.
You assume the other 10 players are bringing Manning down, and he's the one keeping the offense treading water. So when you sub in the back-up you expect the offense to go from bad to non-functional.
That's the only I'm convinced Manning isn't finished. It would have to be a dreadful team to explain away his play.
And analyzing the state of the QB, the team and the system is so much more the purpose than determining who Kyle Lualetta is.
how many Patriots fans thought they were screwed? Point is not that Lauletta is Tom Brady; the point is that you don't know what you have until a quarterback gets under center.
Exactly. I live in New England and fans didn't like Brady at first. They complained he couldn't throw the deep ball. That he was dink and dunk. Many still wanted Bledsoe back when he got healthy. I hate the Patriots but I use to argue with their fans all the time that Brady should stay because he moves the chains. Bledsoe was a pretty darn good QB with a big arm but Brady was more consistent IMO.
No one has more than 3 wins in our division, I'm not quite ready to throw the towel in, but know it may happen. If we still had Webb on the roster this wouldn't change my opinion. If we get to 1-7 and are 4-5 games back, at that point I do think we need to evaluate Lauletta. I'd say the same about Webb if he was still here.
My opinion on both is that Webb throws better, Lauletta has better pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quicker. Lauletta has better skills to deal with the talent on this team than Webb does.
If Albert Einstein was still alive and in his twenties and had a rocket arm and good mobility, would we want him to replace Eli? Of course he would have to already be on the roster, but it's a hypothetical.
If it's Webb, Lualetta, Smith or Tanney -- if you're on the fence about Manning, you assume the veteran with plenty of gas in the tank is going to look better than that cast of characters.
You assume the other 10 players are bringing Manning down, and he's the one keeping the offense treading water. So when you sub in the back-up you expect the offense to go from bad to non-functional.
That's the only I'm convinced Manning isn't finished. It would have to be a dreadful team to explain away his play.
And analyzing the state of the QB, the team and the system is so much more the purpose than determining who Kyle Lualetta is.
If Eli is not being held accountable in meetings for poor performance. I was paying close attention to QB play this week across the NFL. Many rushers come free at other QBs, but most of the time the QB takes a subtle step and the QB still makes a play as the defender flies by. Our line has to play perfect. Eli never helps them out. I would not be surprised if the OL played better with someone else under center. I think it would give the whole team a jolt of energy. Could you imagine being the stands and watching a QB bail out the OL with run of 15 yards on 3rd and long when they blow a block? It's time to see what happens with someone else. Anyone else. That person needs to play more than one game too. Don't throw someone in there for just one game.
RE: Shurmur determined that Webb didn’t have what it takes, Â
the moment the team drafted Lauletta. There was no way the team was going to carry two developmental QBs. Between Webb and Lauletta who was going to get that role - the guy JR/Mac drafted or the guy DG/PS drafted? Webb's only chance to make the team this years was if he performed like a seasoned vet during the preseason; not likely to happen for a 2nd year QB who never saw the field his 1st year.
Since we are playing hypotheticals regarding tanney Â
If we are say 5-1 or 4-2 right now and keep winning clinch either the division or wild card and Eli goes down would you guys still want KL as the back up or tanney?
Right now, Shurmer thinking he didn't have what it takes Â
is the strongest argument that Webb should be a starter. Shurmer watched last year's tape and thought Eli still had it, based on the Eagles game which was the outlier in Eli's performances last year. In other words, he saw what he wanted to see.
He won't get a third chance to be a head coach.
RE: Webb was placed into a near impossible situation Â
the moment the team drafted Lauletta. There was no way the team was going to carry two developmental QBs. Between Webb and Lauletta who was going to get that role - the guy JR/Mac drafted or the guy DG/PS drafted? Webb's only chance to make the team this years was if he performed like a seasoned vet during the preseason; not likely to happen for a 2nd year QB who never saw the field his 1st year.
Webb’s fate was sealed when he opened his mouth about last year. I have no doubt if he kept his mouth shut he would be the primary backup
RE: Since we are playing hypotheticals regarding tanney If we are say 5-1 or 4-2 right now and keep winning clinch either the division or wild card and Eli goes down would you guys still want KL as the back up or tanney?
In that circumstance, you want to play the guy who is in the best position to win games to remain competitive. In the current crapfest where the team is not competitive, the Giants need to know what Lauletta brings to the table and allow some room for growth (tolerance for rookie mistakes).
See enough of Webb in August? He did not look like an NFL qb, not a starter, or a backup, heck even a third string qb. That guy had all time bad written all over him.
The Giants will have another opportunity to get another look at a young QB if the seasons continues to spiral.
I don't buy that Webb was the heir apparent, or that he was Â
He just wasn't a fit for what Shurmur was trying to do. Cutting Webb after drafting Lauletta seemed to make sense.
Where it fell apart was in retaining Tanney. Tanney's awful. Which is fine, most teams don't have much behind their starting QB, that's the way it goes. But why waste 3 spots on QBs at that point? And if you are - why not at least give the spot to the guy who might not be a fit, and might also be awful, but hasn't really had the opportunity to prove it out yet?
They should have just gone with 2 QBs, and if Eli got hurt, accepted that it was #1 overall or bust.
high. Obviously coaching hasn't positively effected this. It leads to interceptions or injuries which we all have seen. In the past he was able overcome this with 4th quarter heroics. Now he has no defense even if he get back a slim lead in the 4th quarter and last ear and once this season, he stood on sidelines as 'd' couldn't hold opposition in
waning minutes of game.
So Eli is unfixable, defense needs backbone and pass rush, and we need a new qb and rebuilt offesive line.
that's basically the constructive end of it, imv. They didn't believe in him for their NYG vision. There will be no other answer, why get stuck on it.
Not only that, but he's not any other teams starter or backup, he's on a practice squad. I would think that speaks volumes.
A lot here seem to talk themselves into things, like Webb was the heir apparent to Eli ... even though a new regime had taken over. Or, Solder was the OL fix, OV the pass rush fix, rinse and repeat.
I get the hope, but it doesn't pass the football sniff test.
Just the fact that Webb was cut by Gettleman doesn't sway me much. Romeo Okwara, as an example, would have been both cheaper and more useful than Connor Barwin. DG has been intent, to a fault, with putting his own stamp.
exactly in the rush to put his own stamp on the team I think Gettleman tossed a few good players that would really help Giants now
Okwara , Jones ,Kennard
any once again Webb was offered a number of roster opportunities after being cut but chose the Jets because they offered to pay his salary in full.
Ok if we had Darnold, might be different. But mathematically we can still make the playoffs. I know we won't, but the coaches and players have to believe they can win 10 straight.
I would like to see Lauletta get the last 4 weeks of the season. Keep Eli in until then (this would not change if we had Webb)
get higher pick.
don't fuck up the formula.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
if Webb was still on the roster fans would be clamoring for him to be given a shot
and the press would be comparing this season to mcadoo's last season
and wondering if schumer would be making same mistake by not putting Webb in.
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
He might not want to tell Manning about this after last year.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
if Webb was still on the roster fans would be clamoring for him to be given a shot
and the press would be comparing this season to mcadoo's last season
and wondering if schumer would be making same mistake by not putting Webb in.
This makes no sense whatsoever. You think fans would clamor for Webb but not KL?
And fans (which means some media trolls aren't far behind) are already comparing Shurmur to MacAdoo.
Quote:
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
+1 I have never understood the need for an "experienced" backup on a team where winning is more hoped than expected. Who cares, if Eli gets hurt then we have no shot anyway. And, with Eli playing as he is now we already have no shot. Lauletta needs to be the backup. The reason we don't see him activated is because they know the fans will be booing and calling for Kyle to play (in game). Much different than fans talking about it during the week...
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
I think that since KL is a rookie, has barely had a cup of coffee in the NFL, and is fully entrenched in the scout team, and is third string behind Tanney there is no reason to make a change.
Tanney, is more then likely terrible, and KL is not ready yet.
Webb a 3rd rounder, who would have been the backup, getting 2nd team reps, would be someone who we would all want to see play sooner, rather then later.
Quote:
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
There is if you feel the rookie cannot effectively operate an offense. You are looking at a number of other players, your play calling, how teams game plan against you etc.
If Webb looked he did in the pre-season in practice last year, Mcadoo did the right thing going to Smith. Watching Webb out there wasn't going to help them learn anything.
Quote:
Of all the things McAdoo was wrong about, stress testing his system and evaluating other players was a good idea.
When you are as bad as the Giants have been under 2 head coaches, 2 completely different systems, and 2 completely different lines -- replacing and analyzing the last variable is acceptable.
Whether Webb, Smith, or now Lualetta -- there is value in getting them some reps.
I agree with your premise, but in no way was there value in getting Geno reps. IMO, there wasn't even value in him being on the roster (ditto Alex Tanney).
They played Geno because he was the true backup. He never should have been on the team to begin with, but he was and Webb was the scout team QB. They did not want to throw him out to the wolves.
Quote:
that more fans would want Eli benched if Webb was the backup?
I'd guess those that want to see KL now would be in favor of starting Webb if he were on the team and those that currently don't want KL in would still be opposed to Webb.
I think that since KL is a rookie, has barely had a cup of coffee in the NFL, and is fully entrenched in the scout team, and is third string behind Tanney there is no reason to make a change.
Tanney, is more then likely terrible, and KL is not ready yet.
Webb a 3rd rounder, who would have been the backup, getting 2nd team reps, would be someone who we would all want to see play sooner, rather then later.
My question is why would we want to see someone who isnt good? He wasnt good whatsoever in the preseason. We couldnt even get a 7th rounder for him. Not one team picked him on waivers.
I know we all want change to the position..... but the heir apparent was not picked in this past draft. Lauletta may gets reps soon but Davis Webb was never the answer. It was just another misdiagnosed pick by Reese.
I would not take the word of our defense on how good QBs look against them. ALL Qbs look good throwing against them.
get higher pick.
don't fuck up the formula.
that was funny...
The first game he was terrible.
The second game, where I believe he started, he actually drove the offense down the field.
I'd take driving down the field right now, over not moving the ball unless Saquon miraculously jukes a defender out of his jock strap.
Before a Change, you need to feel like you've exhausted the "evaluation" of Eli about whether He can be a winning caliber player when you have an adequate team around him.
So it's not accurate to say that no one wanted him.
I wasn't that impressed with his preseason. But he showed something vs the Lions. And it would be more interesting to see him on the field proving it one way or the other than what we're being shown.
Just the fact that Webb was cut by Gettleman doesn't sway me much. Romeo Okwara, as an example, would have been both cheaper and more useful than Connor Barwin. DG has been intent, to a fault, with putting his own stamp.
So it's not accurate to say that no one wanted him.
.
Every team had a chance to pick him off waivers. No one did.
Quote:
for the full season from the Jets. That's why he chose them over other offers.
So it's not accurate to say that no one wanted him.
.
Every team had a chance to pick him off waivers. No one did.
There are many players who clear waivers and then sign. A guaranteed full year salary, which Webb has, is not the norm for a PS player. The Jets are effectively paying him to be their #3 QB for this season, albeit not on the 53-man.
You assume the other 10 players are bringing Manning down, and he's the one keeping the offense treading water. So when you sub in the back-up you expect the offense to go from bad to non-functional.
That's the only I'm convinced Manning isn't finished. It would have to be a dreadful team to explain away his play.
And analyzing the state of the QB, the team and the system is so much more the purpose than determining who Kyle Lualetta is.
Exactly. I live in New England and fans didn't like Brady at first. They complained he couldn't throw the deep ball. That he was dink and dunk. Many still wanted Bledsoe back when he got healthy. I hate the Patriots but I use to argue with their fans all the time that Brady should stay because he moves the chains. Bledsoe was a pretty darn good QB with a big arm but Brady was more consistent IMO.
My opinion on both is that Webb throws better, Lauletta has better pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quicker. Lauletta has better skills to deal with the talent on this team than Webb does.
You assume the other 10 players are bringing Manning down, and he's the one keeping the offense treading water. So when you sub in the back-up you expect the offense to go from bad to non-functional.
That's the only I'm convinced Manning isn't finished. It would have to be a dreadful team to explain away his play.
And analyzing the state of the QB, the team and the system is so much more the purpose than determining who Kyle Lualetta is.
And 31 other NFL head coaches.
He won't get a third chance to be a head coach.
Webb’s fate was sealed when he opened his mouth about last year. I have no doubt if he kept his mouth shut he would be the primary backup
Not only that, but he's not any other teams starter or backup, he's on a practice squad. I would think that speaks volumes.
Oh brother! Do you guys really believe this stuff that you spew?
In that circumstance, you want to play the guy who is in the best position to win games to remain competitive. In the current crapfest where the team is not competitive, the Giants need to know what Lauletta brings to the table and allow some room for growth (tolerance for rookie mistakes).
The Giants will have another opportunity to get another look at a young QB if the seasons continues to spiral.
He just wasn't a fit for what Shurmur was trying to do. Cutting Webb after drafting Lauletta seemed to make sense.
Where it fell apart was in retaining Tanney. Tanney's awful. Which is fine, most teams don't have much behind their starting QB, that's the way it goes. But why waste 3 spots on QBs at that point? And if you are - why not at least give the spot to the guy who might not be a fit, and might also be awful, but hasn't really had the opportunity to prove it out yet?
They should have just gone with 2 QBs, and if Eli got hurt, accepted that it was #1 overall or bust.
waning minutes of game.
So Eli is unfixable, defense needs backbone and pass rush, and we need a new qb and rebuilt offesive line.
Quote:
that's basically the constructive end of it, imv. They didn't believe in him for their NYG vision. There will be no other answer, why get stuck on it.
Not only that, but he's not any other teams starter or backup, he's on a practice squad. I would think that speaks volumes.
A lot here seem to talk themselves into things, like Webb was the heir apparent to Eli ... even though a new regime had taken over. Or, Solder was the OL fix, OV the pass rush fix, rinse and repeat.
I get the hope, but it doesn't pass the football sniff test.
exactly in the rush to put his own stamp on the team I think Gettleman tossed a few good players that would really help Giants now
Okwara , Jones ,Kennard
any once again Webb was offered a number of roster opportunities after being cut but chose the Jets because they offered to pay his salary in full.