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| The logic here is the Raiders are trying to reboot everything and want a cheap, young quarterback. The Giants are trying NOT to reboot, but put themselves in a position where they only have an aging, washed-up Eli Manning under center. They need a veteran upgrade and Carr might be the answer to pair with Saquon Barkley, Odell Beckham and a host of offensive weapons. "That makes all the sense in the world to me. The Giants don't really want to rebuild. And they don't really want to admit they screwed up by not taking a quarterback, right?" La Canfora said. "So they trade what will be a fairly high [first-round pick] or maybe they do it for a future [first-round pick] if this one looks like it's going to be top two or three. I think that's what they do and they plug him right in there with Barkley, Odell and Shephard and [Evan Engram] and they try to keep that thing going." It sounds pretty wild, but when you think about the motivations for both of the teams, it's not that out of control. The Giants wouldn't give up their 2019 first-round pick (it should be high) but might be willing to part with their 2020 first-round pick, believing they can win next year and not face a high pick if they land Carr. |
Draft a QB.
What a fucking moron
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
Hes the type that has a few monstrous games that look legit. But I have never been impressed with him and his play this year has been even worse than Eli's.
How does anyone take anything this guy says seriously? He
is one of the worst in the business.
The cap number is what is important and it is:
2018: $25m, $32m in dead money
2019: $22.5m, $7.5m in dead money
2020: $21.5,, $5m in dead money
2021: $22m, $2.5m in dead money
2022: $19.8m, $0 in dead money
Would allow us to get a top O-line or edge rusher.
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
I wouldn't say he sucks either, but he is a bit of a dink and dunker. He's never been top 15 in YPA. If it were only a 2020 #1, I'd think about it, but I seriously doubt OAK moves him for that. They will insist on a 2019 #1 at the very least.
I don't think he sucks though - that's a bit much. He's 27 years old and has some excellent seasons on his resume. A change of scenery will do him good. A change of scenery with Barkley, Beckham, Engram and a halfway decent line would do him very good. This isn't something to dismiss right away.
Makes zero sense for the GIANTS. Zero. Nada. Zilch. The big goose egg.
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If they have to wait a year, they'll want more in the deal. His contract isn't as bad as I thought, but I'm not sold on him. With the number of holes the team has to fill, I'd rather gamble on a lower-wage rookie, and use that money elsewhere.
The cap number is what is important and it is:
2018: $25m, $32m in dead money
2019: $22.5m, $7.5m in dead money
2020: $21.5,, $5m in dead money
2021: $22m, $2.5m in dead money
2022: $19.8m, $0 in dead money
Is this pre or post trade?
If pre trade a lot of that dead cap will sit with Oakland
With that being said, if the Oakland finished with the #1 pick and decided on taking Herbert then I'd be interested in that trade. Carr is talented and has played at a high level. Despite his play/production last season and the first 6 weeks of this season, I still think he can be a very good starter in the league.
Just look at his spray chart last week in a game that they were getting beat badly. Not to mention his WR's were targeted a total of 13 games in the game.
for comparison sake, here's Eli's - ( New Window )
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
No, he doesn't suck at all. He's just not worth the big contract *and* the draft picks they'll probably want in return.
Better to draft a QB.
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Granted I don't watch a ton of Raider games but does he really suck?
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
No, he doesn't suck at all. He's just not worth the big contract *and* the draft picks they'll probably want in return.
Better to draft a QB.
His contract isnt that big
We would be on the books for about 20 a year when QBs are signing for closer to 30 these days
I'd lean against making a trade like this, but to completely dismiss the notion of acquiring 27-year-old QB who already has three Pro Bowl seasons on his resume is a bit much. There would be a market for Carr if he were made available, and we'd be foolish not to at least inquire.
"Just draft Tua in 2020!" isn't all that reliable of a plan either, unless you're expecting us to go 3-13 for three straight seasons.
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If they have to wait a year, they'll want more in the deal. His contract isn't as bad as I thought, but I'm not sold on him. With the number of holes the team has to fill, I'd rather gamble on a lower-wage rookie, and use that money elsewhere.
The cap number is what is important and it is:
2018: $25m, $32m in dead money
2019: $22.5m, $7.5m in dead money
2020: $21.5,, $5m in dead money
2021: $22m, $2.5m in dead money
2022: $19.8m, $0 in dead money
You should get the #s right then! :-)
Giants would not be on the hook for his signing bonus, therefore:
2019: $20m, $0 in dead money
2020: $19, $0 in dead money
2021: $19.625m, $0 in dead money
2022: $19.9, $0 in dead money
Only dead money would be if he 'earns' the workout bonus for a given year ($100k each offseason) and then they subsequently cut him.
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In comment 14132961 Danny Kanell said:
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Granted I don't watch a ton of Raider games but does he really suck?
2014 (Rookie year) 59% Comp 3270 yards 21 TD 12 INT
2015: 61% Comp 3987 yards 32 TD 13 INT
2016: 64% Comp 3937 yards 28 TD 6 INT
2017: 63% comp 3496 yards 22 TD 13 INT
2018: 72% comp 1783 yards 7 TD 8 INT
He's 27 years old and entering his prime. He's only missed 2 regular season games in his career. I know he broker his leg but he's been durable. He's mobile.
He needs out of Oakland.
I wouldn't say he sucks.
No, he doesn't suck at all. He's just not worth the big contract *and* the draft picks they'll probably want in return.
Better to draft a QB.
His contract isnt that big
We would be on the books for about 20 a year when QBs are signing for closer to 30 these days
Even still, this team is devoid of talent and they need the picks. Plus, we could be in position to grab the top QB in the draft at a much cheaper salary. Still not worth it. If the team was ready to make a run and just needed a QB, then it'd be a different story.
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The cap number is what is important and it is:
2018: $25m, $32m in dead money
2019: $22.5m, $7.5m in dead money
2020: $21.5,, $5m in dead money
2021: $22m, $2.5m in dead money
2022: $19.8m, $0 in dead money
Actually, the cap number isn't important. If we traded for him we'd get him without any of the "dead money" and have to pay his salary only which would be slightly under $20m/year for the remainder of his contract.
No, he doesn't suck. However, he is not an elite player but he is making $20M a year. The real question is "is Carr that much better than a rookie QB on a better deal for 5 years?" My guess would be no since the Giants will likely be picking high so you can find a guy with similar upside on a much cheaper contract for the same first round pick.
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Derek Carr sucks
No, he doesn't suck. However, he is not an elite player but he is making $20M a year. The real question is "is Carr that much better than a rookie QB on a better deal for 5 years?" My guess would be no since the Giants will likely be picking high so you can find a guy with similar upside on a much cheaper contract for the same first round pick.
Floor vs ceiling.
You have a good idea of what Carr's floor (or ceiling) is at this point, which is considerably higher than that of a draftee. But is that worth a $10M (per year) premium relative to what you'd pay the draftee? And sacrificing some of the draftee's upside?
Another thing to consider is what else can you do with that $20M? Is Carr + Bosa (or the top OT) better than Herbert + FA DE/OT + a few million extra?
Carr would have 4 years left at $75M. $22M guaranteed.
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In comment 14132952 dep026 said:
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Derek Carr sucks
No, he doesn't suck. However, he is not an elite player but he is making $20M a year. The real question is "is Carr that much better than a rookie QB on a better deal for 5 years?" My guess would be no since the Giants will likely be picking high so you can find a guy with similar upside on a much cheaper contract for the same first round pick.
Floor vs ceiling.
You have a good idea of what Carr's floor (or ceiling) is at this point, which is considerably higher than that of a draftee. But is that worth a $10M (per year) premium relative to what you'd pay the draftee? And sacrificing some of the draftee's upside?
Another thing to consider is what else can you do with that $20M? Is Carr + Bosa (or the top OT) better than Herbert + FA DE/OT + a few million extra?
Besides my opinion on that, that's a contract that negates even entertaining that trade.
All of the bonus accelerates in Oakland before he gets here, so he's low risk - all you're out is the 2nd round pick.
I'm not a huge fan of Carr's - maybe I'm like the NFL before he was drafted and hold his name against him - but if the draft doesn't hold a solid QB this year, you could do worse. That also frees you up to draft the best DE/OT this year.
Depends on whether they'd take anything but a 1st, and what the QB prospects in 2019 are.
The combination is greater aggregate value than any other possible scenario.
Now, I wanted give them whatever they wanted, I probably wouldn't give them a 1st.
But if we could add a talent like Derek Carr, a QB with experience who has put up good numbers and is just entering his prime, for a 2nd? I'd have to think long and hard about it.
Paul Dottino also said that Webb was the next franchise QB for the Giants.
I don’t think Carr is bad. Team could offer our 2nd rounder for him. Then sign an OT in FA and use our #1 pick on elite edge rusher.