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How To Rebuild This Team

DeepBlueJint : 10/17/2018 2:49 pm
History is prologue. The Giants historically started their success with a strong foundation in defense, not offense. Recall the Giants of the 50s and early 60s. Remember they picked up YA Title after the defense was top notch. I suggest that this is where the team needs to focus, not offense. We need defensive players that accel in today's NFL. We need interior defensive linemen that stuff the line. We need outside linebackers and ends that blitz with upmost speed and strength. We need opportunistic inside linebackers and safeties that stuff the run and minimize yards per catch. We need corners that cover and not loose the game on one play. THAT IS THE GIANTS' history for success. We have none of that today. Simms and Manning would never have won any Super Bowls without a punishing, great defense. That is our recipe for success. Not Beckham. Not Barkley. Not Manning. They are merely icing on the cake. Other than perhaps Morris and Bavaro, Simms had no pro bowlers on offense. Though he made the pro bowl a few times, there were other QBs who got the glamor and publicity. Simms was proficient. He knew his limitations. Manning is simply a nudge. He never quits and believes in himself. Like Simms, he knows his limitations (thank you Clint Eastwood). When we had Morris, Anderson and Bavaro, our offense was geared on run, run, play action. Two tight end offense; sometimes three using an offensive lineman. We pounded the ball, then faked the run then throw. No different with Manning. Remember thunder and lightning? Remember Jacobs running over the Packer defensemen on the frozen tundra early and often in the playoff game? So I say focus on defense. I could care less about offense at this time. Build a Giant traditional identity. When the defense is a stud, then focus and build up the offense.
Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2018 2:51 pm : link
defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.
No  
Thegratefulhead : 10/17/2018 2:53 pm : link
As nostalgic as I am for that the NFL wants more scoring, we are seeing it happen. We need to be able to score. Patriots 43 chiefs 40. That is what the NFL wants.
different eras...  
peteschweaty : 10/17/2018 2:53 pm : link
with all the rules favoring offenses it seems like you have to outscore opponents these days. got to have a high powered offense and a decent defense w a good pass rush imo.
RE: Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
Thegratefulhead : 10/17/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14133054 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.
Yup.
Good Comments, But...  
DeepBlueJint : 10/17/2018 2:59 pm : link
Yet,if you run, run, run and use play action and stay in bounds, you disrupt the other teams offensive strategy. Remember Dan Fouts? Dan Marino? Joe Theisman? Cunningham? There were plenty of offensive geared teams. Yet, when they played the Giants, the time of possession went the other way. The Giants owned the clock. That kept their team and our defense off the field. In todays NFL, that strategy could work as well. The NFL and their owners don't want that. They want "exciting" pass plays and high scoring teams. They typically deemphasize running. They pay for QBs and Receivers. They purposely ignore the run game. So look at the Rams right now. Todd Gurley is a key to their game. He makes their QB look good. He keeps the defense off the field.
RE: Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
Blue21 : 10/17/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14133054 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.


Agree. And I was around those "old" days. Best defense today is for your offense to keep it away from the other teams offense. That's why turnovers hurt so much.
RE: Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
Toth029 : 10/17/2018 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14133054 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.

Starts and ends with OL.
RE: RE: Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14133075 Blue21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14133054 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.



Agree. And I was around those "old" days. Best defense today is for your offense to keep it away from the other teams offense. That's why turnovers hurt so much.


It's going to get worse for defenses as well. As more of the spread concepts leak into the NFL. Offenses will get better and defensive play will be down.

You still need a good defense, but you need an offense that can score.
RE: RE: Did you watch last years Super Bowl  
lecky : 10/17/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14133080 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 14133054 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


defenses are an extreme disadvantage in today's game. You need a descent offense first and foremost.




Starts and ends with OL.


Dallas had an all world O-Line and New England Has a bunch of 5th rounders. How about it starts and ends with a QB.
The NFL is doing everything possible...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2018 3:42 pm : link
to make playing defense impossible. The art of intimidation has almost been squeezed entirely out of the game.

Thinking that you can beat the system right now is very challenging. The NFL is stacked with some very bright people in the coaching ranks who are struggling to find systems and methods that work against these rules. It may take years before they develop something innovative that can offset this imbalance.

So I think the focus needs to be finding the right mix of OL, and depth there if possible, and, most critically, a QB who has some mobility to improvise.

Just keep adding talent  
UberAlias : 10/17/2018 3:47 pm : link
Grab your QB when you have the chance. That’s about it.

They will address one of the 3 key issues —QB, OLine, or Edge— with their top pick. If that player is an elite player to go with Barkley and Odell, they will have a good start.
RE: The NFL is doing everything possible...  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2018 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14133145 bw in dc said:
Quote:
to make playing defense impossible. The art of intimidation has almost been squeezed entirely out of the game.

Thinking that you can beat the system right now is very challenging. The NFL is stacked with some very bright people in the coaching ranks who are struggling to find systems and methods that work against these rules. It may take years before they develop something innovative that can offset this imbalance.

So I think the focus needs to be finding the right mix of OL, and depth there if possible, and, most critically, a QB who has some mobility to improvise.

Agreed, the only positions to really throw premium money or assets at is pass rushers, CB, and FS.
First get the QB  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2018 3:52 pm : link
then build around him. The offense is just a few tweaks away from being among the league's best. If they find their QB in the draft and fix the offensive line then this offense could rival any in football.

RE: First get the QB  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14133164 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
then build around him. The offense is just a few tweaks away from being among the league's best. If they find their QB in the draft and fix the offensive line then this offense could rival any in football.


It's not unfeasible to get a QB in round 1 and then get 2 new pieces for the Oline in 2 and 3 of next year. I suspect we will pickup a FA RT, and possibly a guard or center.

Then we will need to focus on DE's. But to be really in the hunt for it all it probably will take 2 years of good offseason work.
RE: RE: The NFL is doing everything possible...  
bw in dc : 10/17/2018 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14133161 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14133145 bw in dc said:


Quote:


to make playing defense impossible. The art of intimidation has almost been squeezed entirely out of the game.

Thinking that you can beat the system right now is very challenging. The NFL is stacked with some very bright people in the coaching ranks who are struggling to find systems and methods that work against these rules. It may take years before they develop something innovative that can offset this imbalance.

So I think the focus needs to be finding the right mix of OL, and depth there if possible, and, most critically, a QB who has some mobility to improvise.



Agreed, the only positions to really throw premium money or assets at is pass rushers, CB, and FS.


I could see the game changing where the LB almost becomes extinct. Maybe teams go with a 4-1-6.

Have a big, athletic Mike to play the run and chip receivers when needed. But then have these combo safeties - one who essentially spies on the QB and the other who plays this free lancing, rover zone. And try to cover as much space as possible with faster athletes.
RE: RE: RE: The NFL is doing everything possible...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14133180 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14133161 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14133145 bw in dc said:


Quote:


to make playing defense impossible. The art of intimidation has almost been squeezed entirely out of the game.

Thinking that you can beat the system right now is very challenging. The NFL is stacked with some very bright people in the coaching ranks who are struggling to find systems and methods that work against these rules. It may take years before they develop something innovative that can offset this imbalance.

So I think the focus needs to be finding the right mix of OL, and depth there if possible, and, most critically, a QB who has some mobility to improvise.



Agreed, the only positions to really throw premium money or assets at is pass rushers, CB, and FS.



I could see the game changing where the LB almost becomes extinct. Maybe teams go with a 4-1-6.

Have a big, athletic Mike to play the run and chip receivers when needed. But then have these combo safeties - one who essentially spies on the QB and the other who plays this free lancing, rover zone. And try to cover as much space as possible with faster athletes.


Well the Nickel is practically the 3rd LB now.

I think the linebacker will still be around mostley because if you did what you said, most teams would start to run the ball more.

You need a hybrid player LB/Corner. Rover in most college ball.
If you have a top 3-5 pick  
UberAlias : 10/17/2018 4:26 pm : link
You either go best player regardless of position and land an elite player, or you take your franchise QB. This team could use a stud in any position except RB.
But ideally  
UberAlias : 10/17/2018 4:28 pm : link
If it’s close, you would love it to be QB OT or Edge.
RE: The NFL is doing everything possible...  
Simms11 : 10/17/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14133145 bw in dc said:
Quote:
to make playing defense impossible. The art of intimidation has almost been squeezed entirely out of the game.

Thinking that you can beat the system right now is very challenging. The NFL is stacked with some very bright people in the coaching ranks who are struggling to find systems and methods that work against these rules. It may take years before they develop something innovative that can offset this imbalance.

So I think the focus needs to be finding the right mix of OL, and depth there if possible, and, most critically, a QB who has some mobility to improvise.


Defenses seem to work against the NY Giants?!
RE: But ideally  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2018 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14133208 UberAlias said:
Quote:
If it’s close, you would love it to be QB OT or Edge.

Let's see a repeat of 2004. 1st line QB Justin Herbert and 2nd round OL David Edwards or Yodny Cajuste
Jacksonville is built on defense  
Rjanyg : 10/17/2018 4:55 pm : link
and they gave up 40 points to Dallas.

I love good defenses. In fact I think right now our 3 DL are pretty damn good in Snacks, Hill and Tomlinson. I would like to see Lorenzo Carter get more playing time as I think he is a future stud OLB. I would like to add to the LB corp and get Josh Allen OLB Kentucky in the early 2nd round if possible next year.

But we need to get our young QB of the future and I hope it is Justin Herbert in round 1. Then I hope the interior of our O Line is improved. Center and Right Guard play is killing our offense. Eli or Herbert will need a cleaner pocket to step into. Right Tackle might have to stay with Wheeler and draft another guy in rounds 4 or 5.

I will say that we need a free safety.

So, for the rebuild:

Round 1. Justin Herbert QB Oregon
Round 2. Josh Allen OLB Kentucky
Round 4. The best OL ( C, RG, RT )
Round 5. The best FS

Free agency: C, G, RT, WR
Defense, defense, defense?  
joeinpa : 10/17/2018 5:42 pm : link
Not anymore,
RE: RE: But ideally  
UberAlias : 10/17/2018 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14133228 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14133208 UberAlias said:


Quote:


If it’s close, you would love it to be QB OT or Edge.


Let's see a repeat of 2004. 1st line QB Justin Herbert and 2nd round OL David Edwards or Yodny Cajuste
That would be great. But you can only work with what the draft gives you. After years of drafts with little or nothing to show for it, what the team needs is an influx in talent --and they can use it just about anywhere. QB, OLine, and Edge are the biggest needs, but when picking in top 3-5-10, you need to come away with difference makers. Address needs with other picks, but reserve elite picks for blue chippers.
get  
uther99 : 10/17/2018 7:01 pm : link
a QB, edge rusher and 2 OL, whether through draft or FA
The game has passed the OP by  
giantstock : 10/17/2018 9:54 pm : link
Living in the past.
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