after the bye Lauletta becomes #2. Then with like 4-5 games left he gets a some starts or at least comes in the 2nd half of games.
Thats when I think well see Kyle. Would be a travesty to let Kyle sit the entire year on the bench with a clipboard on a 3-4 win team while running scout all week
The only place he can be moved is to the bench. We arent going to just cut him and no team is going to trade him. And to be honest I dont think theres a team out there that would sign him even if we cut him.
Last year with Webb or this year with Laulleta (sp?).
But I think when you look back to last year it was very obvious Webb should have been the backup on game day. There were several blowouts that he could have been brought in just to get his feet wet and at the end of a lost season, he should have been brought in, in the second half, to see what he has, or doesnt have. Hard to look back on last year and see it any differently.
Yet, here we are in the exact same situation. And our rookie is 3rd string, inactive on game day. Not sure how you could see this as anything but a mistake. New GM, new coaching staff, yet somehow the same baffling decision to protect Eli.
He has "no trade" clause control over his short term
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
No trade control? I thought he did. Perhaps no more?
Jon just meant clause instead of control. A NTC doesn't get waived arbitrarily over the duration of the contract. A NTC just means that a trade can't happen without Eli's permission.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
If he doesn't start a game this season, this organization is
If Laulleta is as far off as Webb was last year (proven by his pre-season and exit) -- we're not seeing him for a while.
If it's plainly obvious he's not ready, what are you learning bringing a guy in who can't operate the offense?
Some of you are going to shit, but the Giants might very well bring in Tanney. It's the only way Shurmur and Gettleman can evaluate the offense with or without Manning.
If Tanney can tread water similarly to Manning in this offense, that makes moving on very easy.
running the scout team than getting 3-4 snaps as the designated #2. I would not read much into this.
If the Giants hit the bye week at 2-6 or 1-7. Then we will see changes rather quickly. If my some miracle they are at 3-5 at the bye...I think Eli stays the starter for at least a few more games after the bye.
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
Their asking price is always too high. Ridiculously high. That's why this team hasn't traded down in the draft since Accorsi did so the year we drafted Kiwi. Reese never traded down. In any round.
As far as Eli's no trade clause, he should have been told to go to Denver, or he'd be cut. The FO wrongly concluded that Eli had three or four years left. That's why they overspent for Solder. Eli is likely done, and there was plenty of evidence before this season that was true. Eli isn't the only problem. The OL is worse. But he can't move at all, and misses throws even when there is no pressure.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
Because only one of those things can be changed, and its going to happen whether you want it to or not
Of rookies starting this year. Are they far more advanced than Lauletta in terms of being able to read a defense?
Hopefully we get a chance to see him start this year. The season is a write off and the offense can barely break 20 points even though this season is on pace for the highest point scoring ever as new rules favour offense
His energy and mobility could ignite the team
Give him some sustained playing time and see what hes got. If hes another nassib so be it; if hes a diamond in the rough we may have a new QB or a trade chip.
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
Their asking price is always too high. Ridiculously high. That's why this team hasn't traded down in the draft since Accorsi did so the year we drafted Kiwi. Reese never traded down. In any round.
As far as Eli's no trade clause, he should have been told to go to Denver, or he'd be cut. The FO wrongly concluded that Eli had three or four years left. That's why they overspent for Solder. Eli is likely done, and there was plenty of evidence before this season that was true. Eli isn't the only problem. The OL is worse. But he can't move at all, and misses throws even when there is no pressure.
No argument from me. I was ok with moving on from Eli after last season ... the perception of one season too early rather than too late was actually already late.
skills to be a successful NFL QB, except perhaps arm strength. Is that last item overblown? Maybe it is, I guess we'll see sometime this year. The Giants like his decision-making, accuracy and mobility and so maybe, just maybe we might have a QB that can challenge for a starting role next year. It will be interesting to see him in action. Something to look forward to, I suppose?!
has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
The biggest thing I always heard last year was:
"DW can't beat out Geno Freakin' Smith, that is all you need to know!!"
Well is it
"KL can't beat out Alex Freakin' Tanney!" now?
At least (and I know he sucked) Geno was a starter and played a bunch of games. What has AT done? 1 game maybe.
I don't think we see KL in anything other than a series or two at the end of a 4th quarter.
The Giants will bring in a QB next year, whether through the draft or free agency, and KL will just be another wasted 3rd round pick.
My personal opinion really is that DW and KL didn't separate enough from each other enough in the pre-season, so DG and PS kept their guy and not Reese's guy.
has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
No its not. You are forgetting the most important thing. Can he function in an NFL game. If the coaches think he cannot, you do not play him.
I am all about more reps in practice and cutting Tanney loose. But you just dont play a guy jsut to play him.
Tanney's a dud, Lauletta's way too raw. At this point, all you accomplish by throwing Lauletta in there is to prove he's not ready yet.
That's why the move last year wasn't the worst - but we needed to have Smith in there for a couple of games at least. Not to prove that Smith was the way forward for the organization, but to see the relative difference in the operation of the offense, from the OL to skill positions, with a different QB out there.
One game wasn't a big enough sample size.
And going into this season with Alex Tanney on the roster was a complete waste of time and resources in many ways.
has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
No its not. You are forgetting the most important thing. Can he function in an NFL game. If the coaches think he cannot, you do not play him.
I am all about more reps in practice an cutting Tanney loose. But you just dont play a guy jsut to play him.
Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
Ah yes, the hook routes to our 4th string TE. Shumur seems to have an aversion to getting good the ball into our play makers hands.
Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
Obviously, you dont get it. Because that is not what I have been saying for the last few weeks.
But why should we be surprised, you havent gotten it since you have signed up for this site.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
Seems like your promoting playing a player even if he is ready or not. GUARSNTEE!!!!
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
Ben and Jerry handed Mara a gift last year - a way to break from your aging but beloved QB and blame it on someone else. Instead he's going to have to go thru it all over again and have everyone hating on him - Eli, the fans, the players who think Eli is done, etc. Great job.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
Seems like your promoting playing a player even if he is ready or not. GUARSNTEE!!!!
The point is you wont know what he can do if hes not running your offense in practice. Is it going to hurt Alex Tanney if he misses out on two weeks of #2 snaps?
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
I believe this was a myth. I live in Denver and everything I heard was that Elway never had any interest in Manning. There was speculation because his brother played here, but nothing of substance.
The Broncos went hard after Cousins, with Keenum as the back up plan. They also stubbornly passed on a QB in the draft. They won't again. They are likely the top competition for Herbert in this upcoming draft.
Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
Obviously, you dont get it. Because that is not what I have been saying for the last few weeks.
But why should we be surprised, you havent gotten it since you have signed up for this site.
Weird, I turned out to get about what was left of Eli.
You came on here accusing Jordan of writing controversial clickbait when its not. Why dont you want the QB to be discussed?
bench Eli Manning last year, the band aid was already torn off by Mac and Reese last season.
I didn't even think Eli looked terrible last year, atleast compared to this season.
Lauletta should get some real game experience this year and if it's at the expense of Eli Manning, then so be it.
Neil Young was right, it is better to burn out than it is to fade away but right now I'm afraid both is occurring to Eli Manning and its very painful to watch.
Almost as painful to watch Connor Barwin rush the passer.
Weird, I turned out to get about what was left of Eli.
You came on here accusing Jordan of writing controversial clickbait when its not. Why dont you want the QB to be discussed?
Because he writes the same thing just in different ways in every article. We have more problems than just the Qb position. But Jordan never writes about anything else other than Eli or OBJ.
He needs clickbait material because his original thoughts arent good enough to keep his job.
and coaches into mindset that he will soon be taking game snaps. Likely in a few weeks one way or another.
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
RE: Yes, KL probably needs to get more up to speed and get himself
and coaches into mindset that he will soon be taking game snaps. Likely in a few weeks one way or another.
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
He doesnt need to understand 100% of everything, but we have to run a capable of offense as well though.
Lauletta shouldn't have been drafted in the 4th round
if he is incapable of playing in meaningless games this year, I'm sorry.
I can understand him not being ready to appear in high stakes moments/playoff games if this team were in that position (unfortunately we're not) and that's what Alex Tanney was for.
I could understand an undrafted kid needing a full year on the sidelines no matter the circumstances, but that is not Lauletta.
If I take a QB in the middle rounds of the draft, I have to do it with hope that, best case scenario, he can be STARTING a year later. We have to see, he needs to play.
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
and coaches into mindset that he will soon be taking game snaps. Likely in a few weeks one way or another.
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
He doesnt need to understand 100% of everything, but we have to run a capable of offense as well though.
It doesn't matter; the fans wish to be entertained with something new. Sure, he'll suck but they will ooh and ahh over every 3 yard completion and make excuses for every bonehead throw. By this they will be entertained until we spend a #1 pick on someone who actually has a chance.
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
I wouldn't expect them to - but we aren't going to win the next two games. We are a "get well" team now. Atlanta will look good against us and we aren't even as good as Washington now.
RE: RE: RE: Yes, KL probably needs to get more up to speed and get himself
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
I wouldn't expect them to - but we aren't going to win the next two games. We are a "get well" team now. Atlanta will look good against us and we aren't even as good as Washington now.
Oh I agree. But it would be typical Giants to win 2 games to get all their hopes up then lose the next 5.
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
Yup. The kid needs to play. Let's see what he's got.
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
This is 100% spot on.
I would only round out it to say this story demonstrates just incredibly stupid this organization continues to be. I'd cut Tanney today and move Lauletta up immediately. What a waste of a roster spot that is...
When he is lighting up our 1st string deffense. Followed by hes that good against a 1st team deffense, followed byhe sucks it just sonhappens our deffense sucks more
They won't bench Eli for Tanney, that's a tank move and the FO cannot admit to that.
Eli will start for the rest of the year. And likely next year as well. Its not the right move but here we are.
Who cares if he gets killed out there? We need to see what he can do.
Also, no chance Eli is back next year. I agree that was their plan coming into the year, but he will not survive another disastrous season. Not only are the Giants continuing to lose virtually every game they play with him, the noise from the outside will only get louder.
When he is lighting up our 1st string deffense. Followed by hes that good against a 1st team deffense, followed byhe sucks it just sonhappens our deffense sucks more
Will John Mara let Eli spend the end of his Giants career sitting on the bench while Kyle Lauletta starts? We all know the answer to that question. It isn't the right answer, but it is the Giants answer.
Eli is likely going to at least start every game this season.
Just like last year. When Geno was active over Webb. BBI drank the koolaid about Webb but the teams actions are way more meaningful than tweets from Doyle about how much the Giants love Webb
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Just like last year. When Geno was active over Webb. BBI drank the koolaid about Webb but the teams actions are way more meaningful than tweets from Doyle about how much the Giants love Webb
Same with Lauletta
Not true that he's worse than Tanney. Your #2 QB is the one more ready to jump in case of injury.
Giving Lauletta #2 reps and only having Tanney active the next two weeks doesn't make a difference in the game.
It's below average no doubt, but I think Eli contributing to how bad it looks.
Again, no one loves Eli more than me, I don't even believe his problems are physical. It's all between the ears in that he's feeling a rush that isn't always there and he seems to be constantly hitting his safety valve throws without going through his progressions down the field.
I'm ready to see what Lauletta can do with his added mobility, quick release and without the baggage of playing the last 5 years behind the worst offensive lines in football.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
If Eli plays poorly v Atlanta, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give Lauletta some run, whether as a starter or not. It would give him 2 full weeks to get ready.
If Eli plays poorly v Atlanta, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give Lauletta some run, whether as a starter or not. It would give him 2 full weeks to get ready.
was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
I believe this was a myth. I live in Denver and everything I heard was that Elway never had any interest in Manning. There was speculation because his brother played here, but nothing of substance.
The Broncos went hard after Cousins, with Keenum as the back up plan. They also stubbornly passed on a QB in the draft. They won't again. They are likely the top competition for Herbert in this upcoming draft.
What I posted is what the beat heard at the time. I do think the asking price for Eli and probably some back channel comms with Cousins' reps shifted the focus though.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
Ran a prostyle offense, was drafted in the 4th round and was on the radar of other teams as well. Maybe he is nothing more that a career backup. But soon is the time to find out unless the Giants miraculously pull it together and go on a run. By all accounts he is a smart, athletic guy. There is really no reason he can't go out there and give it a go. If he sucks...then you make other plans. If he is great you just lucked into a great situation.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
I am just stating what the majority here are saying. If people think Eli has carr syndrome, there is a good chance Lauletta develops one too behind this OL.
Ran a prostyle offense, was drafted in the 4th round and was on the radar of other teams as well. Maybe he is nothing more that a career backup. But soon is the time to find out unless the Giants miraculously pull it together and go on a run. By all accounts he is a smart, athletic guy. There is really no reason he can't go out there and give it a go. If he sucks...then you make other plans. If he is great you just lucked into a great situation.
even if he only becomes the back up, real game experience will be useful.
But I dont think it happens unless the next 4 games are a repeat of the philly game
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
Exactly. Lauletta obviously has athleticism and mobility that Eli doesn't. So those skill sets may work with a struggling oline. I would think most people who be chomping at the bit to see what we have...
Assuming we lose to Atlanta, which I think would make the final nail in the season's coffin, then he should start the rest of the season.
Do you even know what you are even arguing about? You dont think many posters here are saying Eli has David Carr syndrome? Because if you dont, then you need to click open some more threads.
And what agenda am I pushing? That we shouldnt start a rookie who isnt ready? Yeah, some agenda.
There's only one agenda here, and you and I both know its more yours than mine.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
But thats not what I am saying.
I dont want Lauletta starting until he is comfotable with starting. I am not looking for pro bowl numbers or even wins. I just dont want him to out there for the sake of going out there which posters are implying.
If Lauletta is ready to start next week and Shurmur thinks its time to switch, then giddy up. I just hate the notion that we have to play jsut to play him.
Playing Lauletta over Eli makes sense even right now
Do you even know what you are even arguing about? You dont think many posters here are saying Eli has David Carr syndrome? Because if you dont, then you need to click open some more threads.
And what agenda am I pushing? That we shouldnt start a rookie who isnt ready? Yeah, some agenda.
There's only one agenda here, and you and I both know its more yours than mine.
While I enjoy BBI for the giant-related banter, I don't come on it because it helps me formulate my views. I got that one covered myself...rightly or wrongly.
But lets call a spade a spade, the MAJORITY, as you state, are not worried about creating a shell-shocked 3rd round pick. They just cannot let go of the status quo will be defenders of the faith until the last snap of the regular season.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
I am just stating what the majority here are saying. If people think Eli has carr syndrome, there is a good chance Lauletta develops one too behind this OL.
Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
What is the fascination with extreme long shots Webb and Lauletta?
Extreme long shots. Here is the list of NFL team starters and the round they were drafted. For the first rounders, I also put where they were selected:
Washington #1 (1)
NYG #1 (1)
Phil #1 (2)
Dallas #4
We are spending a #1 pick on a qb and probably a top 5 pick. Lauletta is a nothing. His chances of making it are tiny. There are only 9 qb's who were not first rounders and that includes Brady and Brees who were selected 18 and 17 years ago.
Lauletta is in all probability a waste of time who isn't going to stop us from spending a #1 pick on a qb.
While I enjoy BBI for the giant-related banter, I don't come on it because it helps me formulate my views. I got that one covered myself...rightly or wrongly.
But lets call a spade a spade, the MAJORITY, as you state, are not worried about creating a shell-shocked 3rd round pick. They just cannot let go of the status quo will be defenders of the faith until the last snap of the regular season.
Listen we all want the Giants to succeed and get better and we know Eli will not be the QB the next time we are in the playoffs. And deep down losing will help us get the QB we want but we also cannot want Laulaetta get in there and embarrass even more. This is idea that this has to do with Eli is silly.
We are talking about a kid who is 22 and never played higher than I-AA. does he have the opportunity to be successful? Sure. I hope he does. And if he does take over, I hope he kicks ass. But its not absurd to think putting him in is going to instantly get positive results as far as Kyle and the team are concerned.,
Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
Being mobile doesnt guarantee the line will look serviceable. Avoiding one guy, he MAY be able to do - what about the 2nd and 3rd player?
People who think just being mobile will solve our QB problem are just being foolish at this point.
The only positive results reasonable posters are looking for
Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
Being mobile doesnt guarantee the line will look serviceable. Avoiding one guy, he MAY be able to do - what about the 2nd and 3rd player?
People who think just being mobile will solve our QB problem are just being foolish at this point.
Nobody said it guarantees anything, it is however a possibility that currently doesnt exist
RE: What is the fascination with extreme long shots Webb and Lauletta?
Extreme long shots. Here is the list of NFL team starters and the round they were drafted. For the first rounders, I also put where they were selected:
We are spending a #1 pick on a qb and probably a top 5 pick. Lauletta is a nothing. His chances of making it are tiny. There are only 9 qb's who were not first rounders and that includes Brady and Brees who were selected 18 and 17 years ago.
Lauletta is in all probability a waste of time who isn't going to stop us from spending a #1 pick on a qb.
9 out of 32 is actually a decent probability (>25%). And if Brees/Brady should count less because they were draft 17+ years ago, shouldn't you say the same for Eli/Ben/Rivers since they were drafted 14 years ago? And Smith/Rodgers 13 years ago.
RE: The only positive results reasonable posters are looking for
Playing Eli at quarterback no longer makes sense. It is over.
And when KL is ready to command an NFL offense, he should be brought in. Until then, throwing him out there cause he is "mobile" isnt the right answer.
Throwing him put there because we want to see what he is does make sense. Waiting until we're 2-12 and many of our starters are on IR does not.
He's a quarterback on the roster. He should be ready to play now. If he isn't, our coaches are failing (which would not surprise me).
Much like Webb, he was picked to be a developmental QB. Reese said Webb was probably going to sit 2-3 YEARS, yet fans clamored for him to play last year when you and I both know he sucked balls. Its rinse and repeat this year.
Throwing a player out there who is not ready doesnt make sense. This is a 4th round rookie QB who played I-AA. If we had an experience backup with McCown or Fitz or whoeever - yes, make the move now. If we had a 1st rounder we just drafted, then yes make the move.
If Lauletta is ready to start, then start him next week - I agree. But if he isnt, there is no shame in sitting him until he is ready.
RE: The change isnt going to happen on your prescribed terms
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
you have a bit of a chicken or the egg problem though
I don't care when Lauletta was drafted or where he went to school. He is young, cost controlled, and under contract. We should be seeing what we have in him now.
If he's a dumpster fire and the experience destroys his confidence, so what? We didn't invest much in him anyway, and this season is already a dumpster fire. If he plays well, then maybe we don't feel the need to invest resources at QB this offseason. Either way, it doesn't hurt us.
But we should at least find out. He should be playing now.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
Not sure Eli would be amenable to splitting practice reps.
The Giants will not be competitive again during Eli's career here. It is over. We are gaining nothing and learning nothing by playing Eli.
Yes but this has nothing to do with what makes sense imo. Its about the FO and mgmt basically having to do a 180 and fess up to the HUGE mistake they made bringing Eli back with this team. The roster construction has been a joke and benching Eli puts a stamp on that.
They also dont want empty stadiums at halftime with al lthe games being blowouts. Eli gives them a "competitive" face of we haven't given up (even though they have).
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
No, thats fine as i
RE: RE: RE: The change isnt going to happen on your prescribed terms
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
No, thats fine as i
That timeline sounds reasonable...as long as it happens.
RE: RE: The change isnt going to happen on your prescribed terms
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
This is literally what the original post was about and you started twisting it into everyone wants Lauletta playing now
RE: The only positive results reasonable posters are looking for
is whether KL can play QB in the NFL and whether he has more than just backup ability.
Its not to turnaround the season.
So lets keep it real...
Why? To prove he's a backup? Who cares? The chances of him being anything more than a backup are microscopic.
If anything, the whole concept of spending a 3rd or 4th rounder on a "developmental" qb is a waste of a draft pick. You are better off letting other teams waste the draft pick and then pick these guys up off the waiver wire to be a backup when they get cut.
Do you think Kyle wants a chance to start sooner or later? Do you think he wants anyone's protection from developing David Carr syndrome? I am sure he wants a chance, the sooner the better. This garbage from people claiming they want to protect Lauletta and keep Eli starting is biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. Kyle, I am sure, would like to start as many games as possible before the Giants draft next year. We should oblige. I know what is so scary. If Lauletta, 3rd round pick with a supposed noodle arm, steps in and looks good after a few games, with the same exact OL, it is going to make a lot of people look really fucking stupid. This includes our GM and coach who believe Eli has years left.
Sometimes you spend a 4th on a developmental project because he he has the tools to be a decent, cost-controlled backup. Ideally they have upside which could make them a starter someday. Getting an experienced backup is more costly and usually gets you no closer to winning.
Putting Lauletta in makes sense because it will at least let the coaches see if the issues are exactly the same with him as Eli, or if he can mitigate some of the issues. Bottom line is that you have a player who isn't playing well and going to a backup should not be different at the QB position than it is anywhere else, especially in a lost season.
I'm fine with putting him in whenever they are ready to.
I may have been Lauletta's biggest advocate pre-draft, because I felt he was pro-ready. Still do.
FWIW I want to tell you that, even we are often on the other side of these discussions, I do remember that you were completely fine with drafting a QB over Barkley, as long as the team believed in the QB, you said it over and and over. I also remember you talking about Kyle being pro ready. You often get misrepresented and trolled. When I am speaking in general about people on the other side of this whole Eli thing, I am never referring to you unless I quote you directly.
Do you think Kyle wants a chance to start sooner or later? Do you think he wants anyone's protection from developing David Carr syndrome? I am sure he wants a chance, the sooner the better. This garbage from people claiming they want to protect Lauletta and keep Eli starting is biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. Kyle, I am sure, would like to start as many games as possible before the Giants draft next year. We should oblige. I know what is so scary. If Lauletta, 3rd round pick with a supposed noodle arm, steps in and looks good after a few games, with the same exact OL, it is going to make a lot of people look really fucking stupid. This includes our GM and coach who believe Eli has years left.
I think you nailed all of the salient points there - well done.
RE: RE: I'm fine with putting him in whenever they are ready to.
I may have been Lauletta's biggest advocate pre-draft, because I felt he was pro-ready. Still do.
FWIW I want to tell you that, even we are often on the other side of these discussions, I do remember that you were completely fine with drafting a QB over Barkley, as long as the team believed in the QB, you said it over and and over. I also remember you talking about Kyle being pro ready. You often get misrepresented and trolled. When I am speaking in general about people on the other side of this whole Eli thing, I am never referring to you unless I quote you directly.
I appreciate you saying that, and I do feel that I am misrepresented often, but I allow myself to be trolled, that's on me. But I do feel like I am often misrepresented. Thanks.
Do you think Kyle wants a chance to start sooner or later? Do you think he wants anyone's protection from developing David Carr syndrome? I am sure he wants a chance, the sooner the better. This garbage from people claiming they want to protect Lauletta and keep Eli starting is biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. Kyle, I am sure, would like to start as many games as possible before the Giants draft next year. We should oblige. I know what is so scary. If Lauletta, 3rd round pick with a supposed noodle arm, steps in and looks good after a few games, with the same exact OL, it is going to make a lot of people look really fucking stupid. This includes our GM and coach who believe Eli has years left.
You mean the same GM and HC that drafted Lauretta, right? How the hell would Lauletta succeeding make them look fucking stupid? Do you morons ever think before you post?
Do you think Kyle wants a chance to start sooner or later? Do you think he wants anyone's protection from developing David Carr syndrome? I am sure he wants a chance, the sooner the better. This garbage from people claiming they want to protect Lauletta and keep Eli starting is biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. Kyle, I am sure, would like to start as many games as possible before the Giants draft next year. We should oblige. I know what is so scary. If Lauletta, 3rd round pick with a supposed noodle arm, steps in and looks good after a few games, with the same exact OL, it is going to make a lot of people look really fucking stupid. This includes our GM and coach who believe Eli has years left.
You mean the same GM and HC that drafted Lauretta, right? How the hell would Lauletta succeeding make them look fucking stupid? Do you morons ever think before you post?
I will use small words for you. The GM can look for good drafting a quality player in the 3rd round and look fucking stupid for using 1 single game as evidence that Eli still has it and planned our season around that belief. The second part was a much more important decision than the 3rd round pick.
People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
This comment doesn't make any sense. David Carr flamed out because he got sacked about 180 times over the course of his rookie contract, not because he got sacked a couple of times and just couldn't handle it.
Eli's playing like David Carr because he's been playing behind a garbage offensive line for six years.
- it is unlikely that lauletta is a good NFL qb. Ever
- it is possible, even likely imo, that our offense performs better with lauletta at qb this year
- shurmur might not have the stones to make the move. I'm sure he saw what happens last time and knows that Eli is willing and able to take his case all the way to the top
- it seems that there are some people here that are very worried about the possibility of lauletta getting to play because of what it might reveal
- from an organisational perspective, he has to play sometime this year. I know there are some fans who think the giants should be a society dedicated to the enrichment and glorification of Eli manning, but hopefully the actual people running the team have a broader view. But it is possible that they don't
- I do hope that Eli gets 1 home game where everything is clicking and we put up huge numbers and absolutely steamroll somebody before he hangs them up. Ideally a divisional opponent. I would like to see him get cheered off the field for perforance, rather than solely for historical reasons
No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
If Laulleta can't run a functional offense, it doesn't help Shurmur assess himself, the system and the other 15 or so players who aren't a lock next year.
Knowing what we know about Webb. Do you think he him playing last year was a benifit to anyone?
I'd wager he would have fallen to pieces, and not shed light on Mcadoo or anyone's future ability.
In 1999 Trent Green got hurt and Kurt Warner was dropped into a weaponed up Rams O and made history because he could get the balls to the weapons. Eli has great weapons now and hasnt been particularly good at getting the ball to them. I actually like Laulettas upside, and would like to see him get a chance.
Eli is 4-18 behind this OL, how can anyone make the argument that he gives us the best chance to win? If he does, we suck worse than I thought possible. Most of us have played sports, some us have played football. Losing sucks. If you were on this team, you would want to see someone else for a decent stretch of time to see if the team could play better. You would be like, "put Odell behind center if you want, it can't get any worse, try something." I think there is a far greater chance of losing the team by continuing to trot Eli out there with the same results. They would expect the young guy to get better at some point, so the pain could be worth the suffering. Eli is not getting better at this stage of his career. He will get worse. Everyone knows this except some of BBI, Gettleman & Mara. Shurmur knows now, we heard him on the sideline.
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
You are engaging in an act of faith. There is nothing factual indicating that Lauletta would make anyone better at anything just as their wasn't with Webb for whom many of the same quick-fix cast and crew here worshiped at the altar-conveniently forgotten in the Lauletta debate by the way.
As for Keenum, it took him 5 years with multiple teams to develop into a below league-average starter. He rode his one good year last season to a big contract with Elway who hasn't exactly been an infallible judge of qb's. Good for Keenum. Not a plan for a team.
We are drafting a qb #1 this season: get it through your heads. Other than furnishing some of you with a source of entertainment, Lauletta is a nothing and is highly likely to remain a nothing.
yes, agreed... KL is nothing more than "I'd like to see what is there".
If we have a shot a potential franchise QB in next year's draft I am all in...
Do not think I am all in on the "Lauletta as our future QB" train. What I am saying I would rather watch him play for the Giants in 2018/19 than Eli at this point.
There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
No one wants to do that. The question now is, why isn't Lauletta getting first team reps?
Oh, I don't know; maybe it's because he's a 1-AA QB who is 6 games into his NFL career? They weren't going to change anything until they became toast. And the reality was, they were still "in" it until they lost to PHI last week, given how the NFCE has unperformed so far this year.
So there really was no reason to give him 1st team reps. Now? Sure, make sense to do it, and hopefully they will.
There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
Why does where he went to school matter at this point?
I think Lauletta represents a huge opportunity for this franchise. If we learn this year that he can play, the whole near future picture changes for the better (more cap space and a blue chip prospect at another position).
This season's top priority ha to be knowing what we have in Lauletta.
There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
Oh absolutely? No QB is getting shell-shocked in 8 or 9 games. It took David Carr like two or three seasons and over 100 sacks before he was irreparably damaged. What QB do you know of that was shell-shocked after half a season? If so, he never had what it took to be a good QB to begin with.
RE: Why does where he went to school matter at this point?
I think Lauletta represents a huge opportunity for this franchise. If we learn this year that he can play, the whole near future picture changes for the better (more cap space and a blue chip prospect at another position).
This season's top priority ha to be knowing what we have in Lauletta.
It matters because it's not a top program. Carson Wentz is the anomaly re playing well right out of the gate from a smaller, non FCS school. And even then, he played for a program that won what, 5 titles in a row? Lauletta played for a program that didn't have much success and where his stats weren't overly impressive.
He was drafted with the idea he would sit the first year and get acclimated to the pro game and learn from Eli; the hope was that NYG would be somewhat competitive, obviously that's not the case. So hopefully he gets 1st team reps sooner rather than later and gets into games after the bye
There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
Oh absolutely? No QB is getting shell-shocked in 8 or 9 games. It took David Carr like two or three seasons and over 100 sacks before he was irreparably damaged. What QB do you know of that was shell-shocked after half a season? If so, he never had what it took to be a good QB to begin with.
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
With this offensive line - and the lack of command of an offense a rookie has 6 games into the season - it wouldn't surprise me if Lauletta got sacked 50+ times when he finally gets in there, even as mobile as he is (mobile guys can get sacked a lot, just look at what happened to Mariota).
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
No he wasn't. Thats absurd. The Texans even decided to extend him for three years after he'd been playing for them from 2002 - 2005. They gave up on him the next year.
QB's don't get shell-shocked in 9 games. Like I said, if thats all it takes to ruin you - you never had what it takes to begin with.
Throwing him put there because we want to see what he is does make sense. Waiting until we're 2-12 and many of our starters are on IR does not.
Carson Wentz was a 1-AA QB.
He's a quarterback on the roster. He should be ready to play now. If he isn't, our coaches are failing (which would not surprise me).
Much like Webb, he was picked to be a developmental QB. Reese said Webb was probably going to sit 2-3 YEARS, yet fans clamored for him to play last year when you and I both know he sucked balls. Its rinse and repeat this year.
Throwing a player out there who is not ready doesnt make sense. This is a 4th round rookie QB who played I-AA. If we had an experience backup with McCown or Fitz or whoeever - yes, make the move now. If we had a 1st rounder we just drafted, then yes make the move.
If Lauletta is ready to start, then start him next week - I agree. But if he isnt, there is no shame in sitting him until he is ready.
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
Moreover, it's impossible to demonstrate. You might as well argue ghosts exist. If a player is fragile enough to have their career derailed in 8-9 games due to mental anguish from getting sacked, then he wasn't actually a legitimate prospect.
This thread made me laugh... its all 100% meaningless because
the Giants are going to have a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft and this time they are selecting a QB. And there isnt anything Lauletta could show that would change that.
That doesnt mean Lauletta shouldnt play this year. Hes still a player the Giants hope to develop over the next few years. But it is just naive to believe there is anything Lauletta is likely to do to convince the Giants to forego selecting a QB with a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
after the bye Lauletta becomes #2. Then with like 4-5 games left he gets a some starts or at least comes in the 2nd half of games.
after the bye Lauletta becomes #2. Then with like 4-5 games left he gets a some starts or at least comes in the 2nd half of games.
Thats when I think well see Kyle. Would be a travesty to let Kyle sit the entire year on the bench with a clipboard on a 3-4 win team while running scout all week
I wouldn't see it as a benching, more that the season is toast, it would give the team a good opportunity to develop some young players
The only place he can be moved is to the bench. We arent going to just cut him and no team is going to trade him. And to be honest I dont think theres a team out there that would sign him even if we cut him.
No trade control? I thought he did. Perhaps no more?
But I think when you look back to last year it was very obvious Webb should have been the backup on game day. There were several blowouts that he could have been brought in just to get his feet wet and at the end of a lost season, he should have been brought in, in the second half, to see what he has, or doesnt have. Hard to look back on last year and see it any differently.
Yet, here we are in the exact same situation. And our rookie is 3rd string, inactive on game day. Not sure how you could see this as anything but a mistake. New GM, new coaching staff, yet somehow the same baffling decision to protect Eli.
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was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
No trade control? I thought he did. Perhaps no more?
Jon just meant clause instead of control. A NTC doesn't get waived arbitrarily over the duration of the contract. A NTC just means that a trade can't happen without Eli's permission.
Not holding my breath though.
They owe it to the rest of the team to prepare the starting QB as best as possible for the next game
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Quote:
Article.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
If it's plainly obvious he's not ready, what are you learning bringing a guy in who can't operate the offense?
Some of you are going to shit, but the Giants might very well bring in Tanney. It's the only way Shurmur and Gettleman can evaluate the offense with or without Manning.
If Tanney can tread water similarly to Manning in this offense, that makes moving on very easy.
If the Giants hit the bye week at 2-6 or 1-7. Then we will see changes rather quickly. If my some miracle they are at 3-5 at the bye...I think Eli stays the starter for at least a few more games after the bye.
Their asking price is always too high. Ridiculously high. That's why this team hasn't traded down in the draft since Accorsi did so the year we drafted Kiwi. Reese never traded down. In any round.
As far as Eli's no trade clause, he should have been told to go to Denver, or he'd be cut. The FO wrongly concluded that Eli had three or four years left. That's why they overspent for Solder. Eli is likely done, and there was plenty of evidence before this season that was true. Eli isn't the only problem. The OL is worse. But he can't move at all, and misses throws even when there is no pressure.
Quote:
In comment 14133740 dep026 said:
Quote:
Article.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
Because only one of those things can be changed, and its going to happen whether you want it to or not
Because only one of those things can be changed, and its going to happen whether you want it to or not
Ummm a lot of thigns on this team need to change outside the QB position and OBJ antics. But we will never know because Ranaan is a hack.
I think you are right
Hopefully we get a chance to see him start this year. The season is a write off and the offense can barely break 20 points even though this season is on pace for the highest point scoring ever as new rules favour offense
His energy and mobility could ignite the team
Give him some sustained playing time and see what hes got. If hes another nassib so be it; if hes a diamond in the rough we may have a new QB or a trade chip.
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was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
Their asking price is always too high. Ridiculously high. That's why this team hasn't traded down in the draft since Accorsi did so the year we drafted Kiwi. Reese never traded down. In any round.
As far as Eli's no trade clause, he should have been told to go to Denver, or he'd be cut. The FO wrongly concluded that Eli had three or four years left. That's why they overspent for Solder. Eli is likely done, and there was plenty of evidence before this season that was true. Eli isn't the only problem. The OL is worse. But he can't move at all, and misses throws even when there is no pressure.
No argument from me. I was ok with moving on from Eli after last season ... the perception of one season too early rather than too late was actually already late.
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Eli is starting this year whether they are out of the playoffs or not. If hes healthy hes starting.
I think you are right
Then this entire organization is a f*cking joke.
and with our Oline .......
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
The biggest thing I always heard last year was:
"DW can't beat out Geno Freakin' Smith, that is all you need to know!!"
Well is it
"KL can't beat out Alex Freakin' Tanney!" now?
At least (and I know he sucked) Geno was a starter and played a bunch of games. What has AT done? 1 game maybe.
I don't think we see KL in anything other than a series or two at the end of a 4th quarter.
The Giants will bring in a QB next year, whether through the draft or free agency, and KL will just be another wasted 3rd round pick.
My personal opinion really is that DW and KL didn't separate enough from each other enough in the pre-season, so DG and PS kept their guy and not Reese's guy.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
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has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
No its not. You are forgetting the most important thing. Can he function in an NFL game. If the coaches think he cannot, you do not play him.
I am all about more reps in practice and cutting Tanney loose. But you just dont play a guy jsut to play him.
That's why the move last year wasn't the worst - but we needed to have Smith in there for a couple of games at least. Not to prove that Smith was the way forward for the organization, but to see the relative difference in the operation of the offense, from the OL to skill positions, with a different QB out there.
One game wasn't a big enough sample size.
And going into this season with Alex Tanney on the roster was a complete waste of time and resources in many ways.
Lol exactly. The goal for the rest of the season should be the number one pick in the draft. As another poster said recently, "suck for the duck".
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In comment 14133868 dep026 said:
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has the skillset to play in the NFL? He wasnt overly impressive in preseason. He has never played against top level competition either.
He has a skillset that may or may not translate into the NFL. But just because the team sucks doesnt guarantee him the right to play. I hope he plays. Especially when the season goes to shit. But there is no way he is going to step on the field if he is not ready. This is plain and simple.
Thats literally the whole point to elevating him from scout team, to try to get him ready.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
No its not. You are forgetting the most important thing. Can he function in an NFL game. If the coaches think he cannot, you do not play him.
I am all about more reps in practice an cutting Tanney loose. But you just dont play a guy jsut to play him.
Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
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In comment 14133740 dep026 said:
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Article.
Can he ever form a thought outside the QB position or OBJ?
Why is this controversial? We all know whats coming.
Writing an article about the same topic 25 different ways means its shitty. How about we talk about some of the other problems on the team rather than QB and OBJ's antics. How about we start to question some of the FA moves. The inability of the defense to get stops on 3rd down. Play calling where our 4th string TE is the first read.
Is Ranaan so desperate for clicks he can only concentrate on just two areas?
Ah yes, the hook routes to our 4th string TE. Shumur seems to have an aversion to getting good the ball into our play makers hands.
Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
Obviously, you dont get it. Because that is not what I have been saying for the last few weeks.
But why should we be surprised, you havent gotten it since you have signed up for this site.
And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
Seems like your promoting playing a player even if he is ready or not. GUARSNTEE!!!!
Ben and Jerry handed Mara a gift last year - a way to break from your aging but beloved QB and blame it on someone else. Instead he's going to have to go thru it all over again and have everyone hating on him - Eli, the fans, the players who think Eli is done, etc. Great job.
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And yes, this team being terrible and with poor QB play two years in a row should guarantee that they see what a player they spent draft capital on can do.
Seems like your promoting playing a player even if he is ready or not. GUARSNTEE!!!!
The point is you wont know what he can do if hes not running your offense in practice. Is it going to hurt Alex Tanney if he misses out on two weeks of #2 snaps?
I believe this was a myth. I live in Denver and everything I heard was that Elway never had any interest in Manning. There was speculation because his brother played here, but nothing of substance.
The Broncos went hard after Cousins, with Keenum as the back up plan. They also stubbornly passed on a QB in the draft. They won't again. They are likely the top competition for Herbert in this upcoming draft.
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Again nobody said just play him. My original post even said how far in advance would he need to be elevated to realistically be ready to play. You dont want to see anyone else at QB, we get it.
Obviously, you dont get it. Because that is not what I have been saying for the last few weeks.
But why should we be surprised, you havent gotten it since you have signed up for this site.
Weird, I turned out to get about what was left of Eli.
You came on here accusing Jordan of writing controversial clickbait when its not. Why dont you want the QB to be discussed?
Youre saying you cant just promote a player and throw him on the field. All were asking for his him to get snaps running our offense.
I didn't even think Eli looked terrible last year, atleast compared to this season.
Lauletta should get some real game experience this year and if it's at the expense of Eli Manning, then so be it.
Neil Young was right, it is better to burn out than it is to fade away but right now I'm afraid both is occurring to Eli Manning and its very painful to watch.
Almost as painful to watch Connor Barwin rush the passer.
Almost.
Weird, I turned out to get about what was left of Eli.
You came on here accusing Jordan of writing controversial clickbait when its not. Why dont you want the QB to be discussed?
Because he writes the same thing just in different ways in every article. We have more problems than just the Qb position. But Jordan never writes about anything else other than Eli or OBJ.
He needs clickbait material because his original thoughts arent good enough to keep his job.
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and lauletta should be the number 2. Why are you arguing this?
Youre saying you cant just promote a player and throw him on the field. All were asking for his him to get snaps running our offense.
And I believe strongly that you never play a player in a game if he isnt ready. If he is, then play him. Why is this so wrong?
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In comment 14133979 dep026 said:
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and lauletta should be the number 2. Why are you arguing this?
Youre saying you cant just promote a player and throw him on the field. All were asking for his him to get snaps running our offense.
And I believe strongly that you never play a player in a game if he isnt ready. If he is, then play him. Why is this so wrong?
There is going to have to be some (probably a lot) of learning and development to be done in live action, no matter who succeeds Eli.
Not exactly sure what the definition of "ready" is.
Even if Lauletta was a huge step backward, he wouldn't have much of an impact on the bottom line.
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
He doesnt need to understand 100% of everything, but we have to run a capable of offense as well though.
I can understand him not being ready to appear in high stakes moments/playoff games if this team were in that position (unfortunately we're not) and that's what Alex Tanney was for.
I could understand an undrafted kid needing a full year on the sidelines no matter the circumstances, but that is not Lauletta.
If I take a QB in the middle rounds of the draft, I have to do it with hope that, best case scenario, he can be STARTING a year later. We have to see, he needs to play.
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
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and coaches into mindset that he will soon be taking game snaps. Likely in a few weeks one way or another.
And please save the dramatics as to whether he will be even ready then, or how can the coaches throw him to the wolves and destroy his psyche/confidence. Way, way too overboard.
Also based on these posts, some of you need to take it down a notch regarding Eli and shitting on anything/everything that doesn't support him playing much longer. Might need to get yourselves in a mind that the Eli-era is basically over and it won't be a pretty sight thru end of the regular season.
And some of you need to put the sharp knives away...
He doesnt need to understand 100% of everything, but we have to run a capable of offense as well though.
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
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No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
I wouldn't expect them to - but we aren't going to win the next two games. We are a "get well" team now. Atlanta will look good against us and we aren't even as good as Washington now.
How's this different from the last few years?
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In comment 14134098 arcarsenal said:
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No one is going to be able to give me a single good reason why Lauletta shouldn't be playing after the bye week barring some miraculous turnaround before it (not happening)
He needs to be the backup. If he can show he can run the offense, he should play. If he is terrible in practice, then he shouldnt.
And like it or not, if we win the next two games - the coaches arent giving up on the season (as unlikely as it is.)
I wouldn't expect them to - but we aren't going to win the next two games. We are a "get well" team now. Atlanta will look good against us and we aren't even as good as Washington now.
Oh I agree. But it would be typical Giants to win 2 games to get all their hopes up then lose the next 5.
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
Yup. The kid needs to play. Let's see what he's got.
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
This is 100% spot on.
I would only round out it to say this story demonstrates just incredibly stupid this organization continues to be. I'd cut Tanney today and move Lauletta up immediately. What a waste of a roster spot that is...
They won't bench Eli for Tanney, that's a tank move and the FO cannot admit to that.
Eli will start for the rest of the year. And likely next year as well. Its not the right move but here we are.
#1 gets virtually all the reps
They won't bench Eli for Tanney, that's a tank move and the FO cannot admit to that.
Eli will start for the rest of the year. And likely next year as well. Its not the right move but here we are.
Who cares if he gets killed out there? We need to see what he can do.
Also, no chance Eli is back next year. I agree that was their plan coming into the year, but he will not survive another disastrous season. Not only are the Giants continuing to lose virtually every game they play with him, the noise from the outside will only get louder.
Defense.
Eli is likely going to at least start every game this season.
Just like last year. When Geno was active over Webb. BBI drank the koolaid about Webb but the teams actions are way more meaningful than tweets from Doyle about how much the Giants love Webb
Same with Lauletta
Where is the sense in that? lol
Just like last year. When Geno was active over Webb. BBI drank the koolaid about Webb but the teams actions are way more meaningful than tweets from Doyle about how much the Giants love Webb
Same with Lauletta
Not true that he's worse than Tanney. Your #2 QB is the one more ready to jump in case of injury.
Giving Lauletta #2 reps and only having Tanney active the next two weeks doesn't make a difference in the game.
It's below average no doubt, but I think Eli contributing to how bad it looks.
Again, no one loves Eli more than me, I don't even believe his problems are physical. It's all between the ears in that he's feeling a rush that isn't always there and he seems to be constantly hitting his safety valve throws without going through his progressions down the field.
I'm ready to see what Lauletta can do with his added mobility, quick release and without the baggage of playing the last 5 years behind the worst offensive lines in football.
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
I think we have Washington first - then the bye.
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was to Denver last offseason, and suspect NYG asking price was too high ... not to mention, Eli has no trade control.
I believe this was a myth. I live in Denver and everything I heard was that Elway never had any interest in Manning. There was speculation because his brother played here, but nothing of substance.
The Broncos went hard after Cousins, with Keenum as the back up plan. They also stubbornly passed on a QB in the draft. They won't again. They are likely the top competition for Herbert in this upcoming draft.
What I posted is what the beat heard at the time. I do think the asking price for Eli and probably some back channel comms with Cousins' reps shifted the focus though.
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
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People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
I am just stating what the majority here are saying. If people think Eli has carr syndrome, there is a good chance Lauletta develops one too behind this OL.
even if he only becomes the back up, real game experience will be useful.
But I dont think it happens unless the next 4 games are a repeat of the philly game
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People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
Exactly. Lauletta obviously has athleticism and mobility that Eli doesn't. So those skill sets may work with a struggling oline. I would think most people who be chomping at the bit to see what we have...
Assuming we lose to Atlanta, which I think would make the final nail in the season's coffin, then he should start the rest of the season.
Do you even know what you are even arguing about? You dont think many posters here are saying Eli has David Carr syndrome? Because if you dont, then you need to click open some more threads.
And what agenda am I pushing? That we shouldnt start a rookie who isnt ready? Yeah, some agenda.
There's only one agenda here, and you and I both know its more yours than mine.
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People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
The idea is to see if the offense can function with someone else at the helm who provides some additional mobility and may not have the same accelerated clock in his head. If you are just going to say that nobody can win with the offensive line, why even show up for the games?
But thats not what I am saying.
I dont want Lauletta starting until he is comfotable with starting. I am not looking for pro bowl numbers or even wins. I just dont want him to out there for the sake of going out there which posters are implying.
If Lauletta is ready to start next week and Shurmur thinks its time to switch, then giddy up. I just hate the notion that we have to play jsut to play him.
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just continued nonsense and agenda-spouting...
Do you even know what you are even arguing about? You dont think many posters here are saying Eli has David Carr syndrome? Because if you dont, then you need to click open some more threads.
And what agenda am I pushing? That we shouldnt start a rookie who isnt ready? Yeah, some agenda.
There's only one agenda here, and you and I both know its more yours than mine.
While I enjoy BBI for the giant-related banter, I don't come on it because it helps me formulate my views. I got that one covered myself...rightly or wrongly.
But lets call a spade a spade, the MAJORITY, as you state, are not worried about creating a shell-shocked 3rd round pick. They just cannot let go of the status quo will be defenders of the faith until the last snap of the regular season.
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In comment 14134230 dep026 said:
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People here complain that Eli is done because he has "David Carr Syndrome" but yet we want to throw a rookie 3rd string QB in there cause we have to see him play behind a terrible OL?
Where is the sense in that? lol
Be careful who you think is LOLing as we read this because its not like everybody is on the same page as to what is sensible when it comes to the NYG and its QBs
And by the way, Eli may be done for several reasons that you may not care to believe,
I am just stating what the majority here are saying. If people think Eli has carr syndrome, there is a good chance Lauletta develops one too behind this OL.
Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
Washington #1 (1)
NYG #1 (1)
Phil #1 (2)
Dallas #4
GB #1 (24)
Minn #4
Detroit #1 (1)
Chicago #1 (2)
Atl #1 (3)
NO #2
Carolina #1 (1)
TB #1 (1)
AZ #1 (10)
SF #2
Seattle #3
LAR #1 (1)
NYJ #1 (3)
NE #6
Buff #1 (7)
Miami #1 (8)
Pitt #1 (11)
Balt #1 (18)
Cinn #2
Cleve #1 (1)
SD #1 (2)
OR #2
Den UDFA!
KC #1 (10)
Houston #1 (12)
Tenn #1 (2)
Jax #1 (3)
Indy #1 (1)
We are spending a #1 pick on a qb and probably a top 5 pick. Lauletta is a nothing. His chances of making it are tiny. There are only 9 qb's who were not first rounders and that includes Brady and Brees who were selected 18 and 17 years ago.
Lauletta is in all probability a waste of time who isn't going to stop us from spending a #1 pick on a qb.
While I enjoy BBI for the giant-related banter, I don't come on it because it helps me formulate my views. I got that one covered myself...rightly or wrongly.
But lets call a spade a spade, the MAJORITY, as you state, are not worried about creating a shell-shocked 3rd round pick. They just cannot let go of the status quo will be defenders of the faith until the last snap of the regular season.
Listen we all want the Giants to succeed and get better and we know Eli will not be the QB the next time we are in the playoffs. And deep down losing will help us get the QB we want but we also cannot want Laulaetta get in there and embarrass even more. This is idea that this has to do with Eli is silly.
We are talking about a kid who is 22 and never played higher than I-AA. does he have the opportunity to be successful? Sure. I hope he does. And if he does take over, I hope he kicks ass. But its not absurd to think putting him in is going to instantly get positive results as far as Kyle and the team are concerned.,
Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
Being mobile doesnt guarantee the line will look serviceable. Avoiding one guy, he MAY be able to do - what about the 2nd and 3rd player?
People who think just being mobile will solve our QB problem are just being foolish at this point.
Its not to turnaround the season.
So lets keep it real...
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Or that Lauletta makes the line look serviceable since he is able to move.
The one thing missing from Shurmur's offense is the mere threat of the QB running. Keenum ran 40 times last year. It's much easier to defend when you know there are only two options at the mesh point.
Being mobile doesnt guarantee the line will look serviceable. Avoiding one guy, he MAY be able to do - what about the 2nd and 3rd player?
People who think just being mobile will solve our QB problem are just being foolish at this point.
Nobody said it guarantees anything, it is however a possibility that currently doesnt exist
We are spending a #1 pick on a qb and probably a top 5 pick. Lauletta is a nothing. His chances of making it are tiny. There are only 9 qb's who were not first rounders and that includes Brady and Brees who were selected 18 and 17 years ago.
Lauletta is in all probability a waste of time who isn't going to stop us from spending a #1 pick on a qb.
9 out of 32 is actually a decent probability (>25%). And if Brees/Brady should count less because they were draft 17+ years ago, shouldn't you say the same for Eli/Ben/Rivers since they were drafted 14 years ago? And Smith/Rodgers 13 years ago.
So lets keep it real...
And he should play when he is ready. If its next week, then its next week. If its week 10, then its week 10. If its 2019, then its 2019.
And when KL is ready to command an NFL offense, he should be brought in. Until then, throwing him out there cause he is "mobile" isnt the right answer.
Who said it isnt? Ajr is claiming it should happen no matter if Lauletta is ready or not because he is "mobile." To me.... thats dumb,.
I think you like to pick fights that arent there. Let go of what?
He's a quarterback on the roster. He should be ready to play now. If he isn't, our coaches are failing (which would not surprise me).
He's a quarterback on the roster. He should be ready to play now. If he isn't, our coaches are failing (which would not surprise me).
Much like Webb, he was picked to be a developmental QB. Reese said Webb was probably going to sit 2-3 YEARS, yet fans clamored for him to play last year when you and I both know he sucked balls. Its rinse and repeat this year.
Throwing a player out there who is not ready doesnt make sense. This is a 4th round rookie QB who played I-AA. If we had an experience backup with McCown or Fitz or whoeever - yes, make the move now. If we had a 1st rounder we just drafted, then yes make the move.
If Lauletta is ready to start, then start him next week - I agree. But if he isnt, there is no shame in sitting him until he is ready.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
he can't get reps in practice til he is the starter
I don't care when Lauletta was drafted or where he went to school. He is young, cost controlled, and under contract. We should be seeing what we have in him now.
If he's a dumpster fire and the experience destroys his confidence, so what? We didn't invest much in him anyway, and this season is already a dumpster fire. If he plays well, then maybe we don't feel the need to invest resources at QB this offseason. Either way, it doesn't hurt us.
But we should at least find out. He should be playing now.
Lauletta is in all probability a waste of time who isn't going to stop us from spending a #1 pick on a qb.
The probability says you are right. Just like the probability says the season is likely over. And the probability says Eli is done.
So what exactly do we have to lose? An even more wretched product?
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otherwise it would never happen.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
Not sure Eli would be amenable to splitting practice reps.
Yes but this has nothing to do with what makes sense imo. Its about the FO and mgmt basically having to do a 180 and fess up to the HUGE mistake they made bringing Eli back with this team. The roster construction has been a joke and benching Eli puts a stamp on that.
They also dont want empty stadiums at halftime with al lthe games being blowouts. Eli gives them a "competitive" face of we haven't given up (even though they have).
That was Reese's quote about Webb, showing truly how awful he was as a GM.
Davis Webb playing QB is equivalent as you are as a poster.
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sit for 2-3 years by design is idiotic. That means you essentially wasted the pick since by the time they are "ready" to play they'll be a FA.
That was Reese's quote about Webb, showing truly how awful he was as a GM.
I think that quote was more about Eli than it was about Webb
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otherwise it would never happen.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
No, thats fine as i
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In comment 14134485 Jimmy Googs said:
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otherwise it would never happen.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
No, thats fine as i
That timeline sounds reasonable...as long as it happens.
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otherwise it would never happen.
I disagree. I was hoping he would start after the bye. I think Tanney should be cut. Lauletta start splitting reps with Eli in practice. Give him about 3 weeks of preparations and then lets see what he has. If thats unrealistic or foolish, well thats your opinion.
This is literally what the original post was about and you started twisting it into everyone wants Lauletta playing now
Its not to turnaround the season.
So lets keep it real...
If anything, the whole concept of spending a 3rd or 4th rounder on a "developmental" qb is a waste of a draft pick. You are better off letting other teams waste the draft pick and then pick these guys up off the waiver wire to be a backup when they get cut.
Putting Lauletta in makes sense because it will at least let the coaches see if the issues are exactly the same with him as Eli, or if he can mitigate some of the issues. Bottom line is that you have a player who isn't playing well and going to a backup should not be different at the QB position than it is anywhere else, especially in a lost season.
I think you nailed all of the salient points there - well done.
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I may have been Lauletta's biggest advocate pre-draft, because I felt he was pro-ready. Still do.
FWIW I want to tell you that, even we are often on the other side of these discussions, I do remember that you were completely fine with drafting a QB over Barkley, as long as the team believed in the QB, you said it over and and over. I also remember you talking about Kyle being pro ready. You often get misrepresented and trolled. When I am speaking in general about people on the other side of this whole Eli thing, I am never referring to you unless I quote you directly.
I appreciate you saying that, and I do feel that I am misrepresented often, but I allow myself to be trolled, that's on me. But I do feel like I am often misrepresented. Thanks.
You mean the same GM and HC that drafted Lauretta, right? How the hell would Lauletta succeeding make them look fucking stupid? Do you morons ever think before you post?
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Do you think Kyle wants a chance to start sooner or later? Do you think he wants anyone's protection from developing David Carr syndrome? I am sure he wants a chance, the sooner the better. This garbage from people claiming they want to protect Lauletta and keep Eli starting is biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard. Kyle, I am sure, would like to start as many games as possible before the Giants draft next year. We should oblige. I know what is so scary. If Lauletta, 3rd round pick with a supposed noodle arm, steps in and looks good after a few games, with the same exact OL, it is going to make a lot of people look really fucking stupid. This includes our GM and coach who believe Eli has years left.
You mean the same GM and HC that drafted Lauretta, right? How the hell would Lauletta succeeding make them look fucking stupid? Do you morons ever think before you post?
he's been right for ripping this franchise
Where is the sense in that? lol
This comment doesn't make any sense. David Carr flamed out because he got sacked about 180 times over the course of his rookie contract, not because he got sacked a couple of times and just couldn't handle it.
Eli's playing like David Carr because he's been playing behind a garbage offensive line for six years.
- it is unlikely that lauletta is a good NFL qb. Ever
- it is possible, even likely imo, that our offense performs better with lauletta at qb this year
- shurmur might not have the stones to make the move. I'm sure he saw what happens last time and knows that Eli is willing and able to take his case all the way to the top
- it seems that there are some people here that are very worried about the possibility of lauletta getting to play because of what it might reveal
- from an organisational perspective, he has to play sometime this year. I know there are some fans who think the giants should be a society dedicated to the enrichment and glorification of Eli manning, but hopefully the actual people running the team have a broader view. But it is possible that they don't
- I do hope that Eli gets 1 home game where everything is clicking and we put up huge numbers and absolutely steamroll somebody before he hangs them up. Ideally a divisional opponent. I would like to see him get cheered off the field for perforance, rather than solely for historical reasons
One of two things happen.
Lauletta sucks, we keep losing, and we know he's not part of any solution and take a QB at the top of the draft in April
or..
Lauletta actually looks competent and like someone we can work with and we decide to stick with him.
He needs to play. They need to get him up to speed. I'm not saying right now. But the post-bye game is about a month away. They should be doing everything they can now to prep him to play then if things keep going this way.
We need to have an idea of what we have there and this is an ideal season to get him reps.
If Laulleta can't run a functional offense, it doesn't help Shurmur assess himself, the system and the other 15 or so players who aren't a lock next year.
Knowing what we know about Webb. Do you think he him playing last year was a benifit to anyone?
I'd wager he would have fallen to pieces, and not shed light on Mcadoo or anyone's future ability.
and so are you. you and ranaan have no clue as to what the Giants are doing with Lauletta
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
watching him last night... he is not be the best QB in the league by a long shot... but just watching him evade defenders with his legs and find the open receiver made me salivate.
I really only watched the 1st half but he made at least 4-5 throws while on a designed or undesigned run (scramble) that Eli would have either been sacked or thrown it into the ground.
KL is not yet even Case Keenum... but there is a very real chance IMO that he makes this team better right away.
As for Keenum, it took him 5 years with multiple teams to develop into a below league-average starter. He rode his one good year last season to a big contract with Elway who hasn't exactly been an infallible judge of qb's. Good for Keenum. Not a plan for a team.
We are drafting a qb #1 this season: get it through your heads. Other than furnishing some of you with a source of entertainment, Lauletta is a nothing and is highly likely to remain a nothing.
If we have a shot a potential franchise QB in next year's draft I am all in...
Do not think I am all in on the "Lauletta as our future QB" train. What I am saying I would rather watch him play for the Giants in 2018/19 than Eli at this point.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
No one wants to do that. The question now is, why isn't Lauletta getting first team reps?
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
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There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
No one wants to do that. The question now is, why isn't Lauletta getting first team reps?
Oh, I don't know; maybe it's because he's a 1-AA QB who is 6 games into his NFL career? They weren't going to change anything until they became toast. And the reality was, they were still "in" it until they lost to PHI last week, given how the NFCE has unperformed so far this year.
So there really was no reason to give him 1st team reps. Now? Sure, make sense to do it, and hopefully they will.
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There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
I think Lauletta represents a huge opportunity for this franchise. If we learn this year that he can play, the whole near future picture changes for the better (more cap space and a blue chip prospect at another position).
This season's top priority ha to be knowing what we have in Lauletta.
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In comment 14135612 speedywheels said:
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There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
Oh absolutely? No QB is getting shell-shocked in 8 or 9 games. It took David Carr like two or three seasons and over 100 sacks before he was irreparably damaged. What QB do you know of that was shell-shocked after half a season? If so, he never had what it took to be a good QB to begin with.
I think Lauletta represents a huge opportunity for this franchise. If we learn this year that he can play, the whole near future picture changes for the better (more cap space and a blue chip prospect at another position).
This season's top priority ha to be knowing what we have in Lauletta.
It matters because it's not a top program. Carson Wentz is the anomaly re playing well right out of the gate from a smaller, non FCS school. And even then, he played for a program that won what, 5 titles in a row? Lauletta played for a program that didn't have much success and where his stats weren't overly impressive.
He was drafted with the idea he would sit the first year and get acclimated to the pro game and learn from Eli; the hope was that NYG would be somewhat competitive, obviously that's not the case. So hopefully he gets 1st team reps sooner rather than later and gets into games after the bye
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In comment 14135627 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 14135612 speedywheels said:
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There are multiple posters who want to throw the guy out there "to see what we have", when the guy hasn't even taken 1st team reps.
That - combined with this crappy OL - will get the guy killed.
Realistically, he won't die in half a season. And he won't develop David Carr Syndrome in just half a season either.
And further, who cares? He's a minimal investment player with the odds stacked against ever being a franchise QB to begin with.
Throw him out there and make an assessment. He'll be fine.
He can absolutely get David Carr syndrome in 8-9 games. Assuming they were stupid enough to throw him out there after not even getting first team reps, as you seems to be suggesting..
Oh absolutely? No QB is getting shell-shocked in 8 or 9 games. It took David Carr like two or three seasons and over 100 sacks before he was irreparably damaged. What QB do you know of that was shell-shocked after half a season? If so, he never had what it took to be a good QB to begin with.
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
With this offensive line - and the lack of command of an offense a rookie has 6 games into the season - it wouldn't surprise me if Lauletta got sacked 50+ times when he finally gets in there, even as mobile as he is (mobile guys can get sacked a lot, just look at what happened to Mariota).
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
No he wasn't. Thats absurd. The Texans even decided to extend him for three years after he'd been playing for them from 2002 - 2005. They gave up on him the next year.
QB's don't get shell-shocked in 9 games. Like I said, if thats all it takes to ruin you - you never had what it takes to begin with.
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Throwing him put there because we want to see what he is does make sense. Waiting until we're 2-12 and many of our starters are on IR does not.
Carson Wentz was a 1-AA QB.
He's a quarterback on the roster. He should be ready to play now. If he isn't, our coaches are failing (which would not surprise me).
Much like Webb, he was picked to be a developmental QB. Reese said Webb was probably going to sit 2-3 YEARS, yet fans clamored for him to play last year when you and I both know he sucked balls. Its rinse and repeat this year.
Throwing a player out there who is not ready doesnt make sense. This is a 4th round rookie QB who played I-AA. If we had an experience backup with McCown or Fitz or whoeever - yes, make the move now. If we had a 1st rounder we just drafted, then yes make the move.
If Lauletta is ready to start, then start him next week - I agree. But if he isnt, there is no shame in sitting him until he is ready.
Carr was damaged WELL before the 91 sacks he took in his first two seasons.
Moreover, it's impossible to demonstrate. You might as well argue ghosts exist. If a player is fragile enough to have their career derailed in 8-9 games due to mental anguish from getting sacked, then he wasn't actually a legitimate prospect.
That doesnt mean Lauletta shouldnt play this year. Hes still a player the Giants hope to develop over the next few years. But it is just naive to believe there is anything Lauletta is likely to do to convince the Giants to forego selecting a QB with a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft.
They won't bench Eli for Tanney, that's a tank move and the FO cannot admit to that.
Eli will start for the rest of the year. And likely next year as well. Its not the right move but here we are.
Eli has become a living institution in NY. He will continue playing and losing for the next 2 years, earning over $1 million for each and every loss.0