I love Bosa but I dont see an enormous difference between him and TJ Watt who went later in the 1st round. I just think quality pass rushers, especially in the 3-4 scheme, are easier to identify later in the draft than franchise QBs.
Doesn't all depend on what the personnel dept thinks Â
It's great to say, "we have to draft a QB." but look how many teams are not competing for a championship because there High #1 pick has been a bust. RG3, MM in Tenn, Tampa Bay, all examples of top 3 picks that are not working out. Meanwhile Mahomes Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson are all guys that were not to 3 picks who have been great. The front office has to do their job. If you do not think the QBs are sure hits you have to look at Bosa or one of then other pass rushers. Hebert has upside. But there is a lot evaluation left to be done. I think Shurmur has a different way of looking at QBs than some. He is looking for instincts and anticipation over physical traits. That's why Lauletta is here and Davis Webb is not.
all the QBs grade out poorly for the Giants, they will take a QB. I really don’t think it’s a question. Unless somehow Lauletta comes in and pulls a Garrapolo from last year.
It's great to say, "we have to draft a QB." but look how many teams are not competing for a championship because there High #1 pick has been a bust. RG3, MM in Tenn, Tampa Bay, all examples of top 3 picks that are not working out. Meanwhile Mahomes Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson are all guys that were not to 3 picks who have been great. The front office has to do their job. If you do not think the QBs are sure hits you have to look at Bosa or one of then other pass rushers. Hebert has upside. But there is a lot evaluation left to be done. I think Shurmur has a different way of looking at QBs than some. He is looking for instincts and anticipation over physical traits. That's why Lauletta is here and Davis Webb is not.
I think you could make the same case for any position and passing on a QB. The Browns looked foolish not to have gotten Wentz after a revolving door of QBs. O lineman, D lineman, WRs, RBs have all gone very high and been busts.
Is test the QB's you have NOW! Don't do what happened last year and NOT Testing Webb...Put the QB's in sooner then later...hey guess what, they maybe good...
what we need is a replacement long snapper. Not a center..don't care about those. Qbs and pass rushers are over rated and can be picked up after the draft.
RE: neither what we need is a replacement long snapper. Not a center..don't care about those. Qbs and pass rushers are over rated and can be picked up after the draft.
Someone articulating what we all know to be true. The key to any NFL team is the long snapper and the guy who keeps those water bottles filled...
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
ah, but the tsunami of players to IR is only beginning. Players don't play hurt for horrible teams. Like last season, expect many to sit this one out on IR, street bums finishing the last, freezing games.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
From what I've seen so far the QBs don't grade out at the top Â
So, what then. Eli's "done" (or about to retire) so does DG stick to his guns like last year and take the top talent forgoing the QB. Will those who liked Barkley over the QB defend that as well.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
We do have 2 elite players on offense that if Eli can somehow find some old magic and the OL can be at least average - we are going to beat some teams this year. I still see 5-6 wins with this team.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
ah, but the tsunami of players to IR is only beginning. Players don't play hurt for horrible teams. Like last season, expect many to sit this one out on IR, street bums finishing the last, freezing games.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
The players to IR were shit players.
I really though it couldn't get worse than 2017... Â
You keep saying this. That Barkley will win games by himself. He had a monster game last Thursday and we got destroyed.
Atlanta is going to curb stomp the Giants on Monday, I have no doubt in my mind. They will drop 40 at home in desperation. We have been relatively healthy all year, which will change. Also, some of the seemingly easier games upcoming will not be that easy for this team. SF moved the ball at will with CJ Beathard against GB, they will do the same to the Giants at home.
keep rooting for Buffalo, Oakland etc. to get some wins; even if they have QBs we want to sit in front of them in the draft so teams can't leap frog us via trade
So, what then. Eli's "done" (or about to retire) so does DG stick to his guns like last year and take the top talent forgoing the QB. Will those who liked Barkley over the QB defend that as well.
I will defend it if the player is as good as Barkley.
Management (I believe) is looking for any possible justification to keep Manning on the team next year and still call him the QB of the (immediate) future. Any little success he has from here on out is going to be weighted higher to give them confirmation bias.
So if Manning plays well enough to not completely embarrass himself, they can put on a public face and say they believe in him, draft Bosa and go on. Of course, if Manning declines further in 2019 and the team is losing, we are right back for the 3rd straight year having the exact same discussion.
Sadly, it's almost like Eli has to leave no doubt to make this decision easy. Either stink it up to where the breakup can come. Or, have a revival and give everyone hope. But the in-between performance leaves too much grey area that folks can pick and choose sides.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
ah, but the tsunami of players to IR is only beginning. Players don't play hurt for horrible teams. Like last season, expect many to sit this one out on IR, street bums finishing the last, freezing games.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
Once the Giants get to their 8th loss, the IR list will start expanding.
It does seem very early to talk about all this because we have 10 games left and the college season is halfway through and a lot could happen. Herbert seems to be the best QB and is a Junior so we don't even know if he will declare.
And I have an opportunity to settle the QB position which is beyond question the most important position on any team then I take the QB. Now we went a different direction last year and I understand why. With Eli another year older and a number of quality QB’s then this year there is no question.
2019 draft picks aren't solely about 2019 season Â
Thats why last year was a great opportunity, #2 in a QB rich draft, you have a better chance than most years. Its not guaranteed, but less of a resource suck if you dont have to trade up.
This year? I dont think any of the QBs look as good as last year. Its still early, so we'll see how they develop and then test out. I think Herbert, Finley have big question marks.
I would not select a QB this year if rated lower than this year, don't compound the mistake by taking the wrong guy.
If we have the first pick, we'll go QB - probs Herbert. If we have the second, we'll go with either Herbert or Bosa, whomever is available: if both are, we go Herbert.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
Buffalo's defense is legit.
TB has a legit offense.
SF almost beat Green Bay and have looked at least competent offensively.
All three will finish with more wins than the Giants imo
D-line in the first round and O-line in the second and third.
I'm assuming that Lauletta gets moved to back up QB by the end of the year. If he is still 3rd at the end of the season, change the 1st round pick to a QB.
Fix the secondary through free agency.
I'm hoping I win the Megabucks so that I can by Tisch out.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
We do have 2 elite players on offense that if Eli can somehow find some old magic and the OL can be at least average - we are going to beat some teams this year. I still see 5-6 wins with this team.
I agree, odds of us going 1-15 are low. But I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.
Thats why last year was a great opportunity, #2 in a QB rich draft, you have a better chance than most years. Its not guaranteed, but less of a resource suck if you dont have to trade up.
This year? I dont think any of the QBs look as good as last year. Its still early, so we'll see how they develop and then test out. I think Herbert, Finley have big question marks.
I would not select a QB this year if rated lower than this year, don't compound the mistake by taking the wrong guy.
I like Herbert more than any of the 2018 QBs. What is your knock on Herbert?
IMO, there was a fatal flaw with all 5 of the 2018 round 1 QBs, while Barkley was literally a perfect prospect top to bottom. One of the 2018 QBs that was available to the Giants at #2 may very well end up being great, while others may very well be busts, but unfortunately we don't have a crystal ball to tell us which is which. But there is no way that ALL of them will end up being Great. Just very little chance of that happening. If we had taken one of the future busts, it would be a far far worse pick than taking Barkley. People don't seem to respect that possibility.
and double down by NOT taking a QB??? If we had a QB on the roster there would be some hope now as it is ...nada. I seriously doubt Lauretta will turn out as an option strictly a pipe dream and another wasted pick ala Webb and let’s not forget that other fourth round pick who I forget...right...now.
and double down by NOT taking a QB??? If we had a QB on the roster there would be some hope now as it is ...nada. I seriously doubt Lauretta will turn out as an option strictly a pipe dream and another wasted pick ala Webb and let’s not forget that other fourth round pick who I forget...right...now.
Oh, yeah, the immortal Ryan Nassib, we really needed him instead of an OL!
I love Bosa but I dont see an enormous difference between him and TJ Watt who went later in the 1st round. I just think quality pass rushers, especially in the 3-4 scheme, are easier to identify later in the draft than franchise QBs.
You dont see a difference between a 270 lb legit DE, and a 250 lb OLB?
Word
RE: RE: RE: 2019 draft picks aren't solely about 2019 season Â
Given NYG's recent history, it's not a stretch to think they will be reactionary and pick a QB, unless one clearly doesn't measure up.
This.
I love Bosa but I dont see an enormous difference between him and TJ Watt who went later in the 1st round. I just think quality pass rushers, especially in the 3-4 scheme, are easier to identify later in the draft than franchise QBs.
I think you could make the same case for any position and passing on a QB. The Browns looked foolish not to have gotten Wentz after a revolving door of QBs. O lineman, D lineman, WRs, RBs have all gone very high and been busts.
Someone articulating what we all know to be true. The key to any NFL team is the long snapper and the guy who keeps those water bottles filled...
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
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So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
...and he'll be handed over the reigns from a retired Eli Manning.
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So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
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In comment 14133877 UberAlias said:
Quote:
So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
We do have 2 elite players on offense that if Eli can somehow find some old magic and the OL can be at least average - we are going to beat some teams this year. I still see 5-6 wins with this team.
Quote:
In comment 14133877 UberAlias said:
Quote:
So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
ah, but the tsunami of players to IR is only beginning. Players don't play hurt for horrible teams. Like last season, expect many to sit this one out on IR, street bums finishing the last, freezing games.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
The players to IR were shit players.
You keep saying this. That Barkley will win games by himself. He had a monster game last Thursday and we got destroyed.
Atlanta is going to curb stomp the Giants on Monday, I have no doubt in my mind. They will drop 40 at home in desperation. We have been relatively healthy all year, which will change. Also, some of the seemingly easier games upcoming will not be that easy for this team. SF moved the ball at will with CJ Beathard against GB, they will do the same to the Giants at home.
Although Oakland has a lot of draft capital to move up quite a bit if they see a guy they love.
I will defend it if the player is as good as Barkley.
So if Manning plays well enough to not completely embarrass himself, they can put on a public face and say they believe in him, draft Bosa and go on. Of course, if Manning declines further in 2019 and the team is losing, we are right back for the 3rd straight year having the exact same discussion.
Sadly, it's almost like Eli has to leave no doubt to make this decision easy. Either stink it up to where the breakup can come. Or, have a revival and give everyone hope. But the in-between performance leaves too much grey area that folks can pick and choose sides.
Quote:
In comment 14133877 UberAlias said:
Quote:
So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
ah, but the tsunami of players to IR is only beginning. Players don't play hurt for horrible teams. Like last season, expect many to sit this one out on IR, street bums finishing the last, freezing games.
I think the likelihood of top 5 is high. Top 3 in play. Hate to admit, almost rooting for it.
Once the Giants get to their 8th loss, the IR list will start expanding.
Doing anything else would be criminal at this point. Eli's career as a starter is over.
How does an edge rusher help this offense to be anything more than the worst offense in the league again?
Now is about compiling the best talent that fits your systems, not forcing positional picks (Ereck Flowers says hello).
Doing anything else would be criminal at this point. Eli's career as a starter is over.
How does an edge rusher help this offense to be anything more than the worst offense in the league again?
The Giants just passed on Darnold, Allen and Rosen whom many believe can be a quality starter.
At the 2nd overall pick you want more than "quality starter."
Aye, aye aye.
This year? I dont think any of the QBs look as good as last year. Its still early, so we'll see how they develop and then test out. I think Herbert, Finley have big question marks.
I would not select a QB this year if rated lower than this year, don't compound the mistake by taking the wrong guy.
If we have the first pick, we'll go QB - probs Herbert. If we have the second, we'll go with either Herbert or Bosa, whomever is available: if both are, we go Herbert.
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In comment 14133904 dep026 said:
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In comment 14133877 UberAlias said:
Quote:
So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
Buffalo's defense is legit.
TB has a legit offense.
SF almost beat Green Bay and have looked at least competent offensively.
All three will finish with more wins than the Giants imo
But the Giants will be picking 32nd, so...
I think you're right on the money with this. The pressure is on to find a young QB, and I expect that's the direction we go.
I'm assuming that Lauletta gets moved to back up QB by the end of the year. If he is still 3rd at the end of the season, change the 1st round pick to a QB.
Fix the secondary through free agency.
I'm hoping I win the Megabucks so that I can by Tisch out.
Quote:
In comment 14133904 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14133877 UberAlias said:
Quote:
So won’t matter.
I agree with this. As bad as we are.... we play a lot of shittty teams to end the year.
We ARE the shitty team. Sans the Raiders, it's us.
There are a lot of shitty teams in the NFL. Buffalo, Oakland, TB, SF, Indy, Arizona are just a few that come to mind. Tennessee is no great shakes either. We are playing bad there is no doubt about it. But that doesnt mean we are going 1-15.
We do have 2 elite players on offense that if Eli can somehow find some old magic and the OL can be at least average - we are going to beat some teams this year. I still see 5-6 wins with this team.
I agree, odds of us going 1-15 are low. But I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.
I applaud your honesty!
Fans don't think that way
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it's about the bigger picture.
Fans don't think that way
Yes, I'm aware and have been beating the drum for many years.
This year? I dont think any of the QBs look as good as last year. Its still early, so we'll see how they develop and then test out. I think Herbert, Finley have big question marks.
I would not select a QB this year if rated lower than this year, don't compound the mistake by taking the wrong guy.
I like Herbert more than any of the 2018 QBs. What is your knock on Herbert?
IMO, there was a fatal flaw with all 5 of the 2018 round 1 QBs, while Barkley was literally a perfect prospect top to bottom. One of the 2018 QBs that was available to the Giants at #2 may very well end up being great, while others may very well be busts, but unfortunately we don't have a crystal ball to tell us which is which. But there is no way that ALL of them will end up being Great. Just very little chance of that happening. If we had taken one of the future busts, it would be a far far worse pick than taking Barkley. People don't seem to respect that possibility.
Oh, yeah, the immortal Ryan Nassib, we really needed him instead of an OL!
Quote:
If they're even, you pick the QB.
This.
I love Bosa but I dont see an enormous difference between him and TJ Watt who went later in the 1st round. I just think quality pass rushers, especially in the 3-4 scheme, are easier to identify later in the draft than franchise QBs.
You dont see a difference between a 270 lb legit DE, and a 250 lb OLB?
Word
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In comment 14134021 JonC said:
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it's about the bigger picture.
Fans don't think that way
Yes, I'm aware and have been beating the drum for many years.
Jerry Reese said this several times and yet some just don't understand.