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NFT: Get your flu shot

Big Al : 10/18/2018 11:43 am
Just got mine. Hopefully they made the best decisions predicting this year’s strains. You want to up your odds of not dealing with that . Not a fun thing.
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RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:01 pm : link
In comment 14134754 Bill L said:
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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.


Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!


The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.
Tell me the facts again...  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:26 pm : link
Attached are the facts that a simple search of the cdc website would have provided you.

Now, because cdc doesn’t list fantasies, tell me what “toxins” were loaded into the flu vaccine.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.


Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14134789 Bill L said:
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In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.



Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.


That is nonsense
The mercury part is historic jenny McCarthy bs  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:29 pm : link
Stemming from fakes stories about thimerosol which isn’t even in vaccines to any extent and is certainly not a component of flu vaccines.
And thinerosol was never an adjuvent  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:31 pm : link
It was used as a preservative.

And tell what an adjuvant is anyway.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14134790 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134789 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.



Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.



That is nonsense

If
T’s An aluminum salt and there is still mercury in some flu shots and it is a fact that last years flu shot was less than 10% effective (CDC).
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14134795 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134790 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134789 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.



Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.



That is nonsense


If
T’s An aluminum salt and there is still mercury in some flu shots and it is a fact that last years flu shot was less than 10% effective (CDC).

And aluminum salt is a toxin
Did you even read the cdc fact sheet?  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:38 pm : link
I attached it above to save you the google search.

And I should correct myself in the Alum in not really a salt but it does form salts in acidic solutions. It’s certainly not a metal and it’s not aluminum. It’s incorrect and disingenuous to say that the flu shots contain aluminum.
Aluminum hydroxide as used as an adjuvant  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:38 pm : link
Is absolutely not toxic. That’s complete bs
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14134797 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134795 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134790 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134789 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.



Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.



That is nonsense


If
T’s An aluminum salt and there is still mercury in some flu shots and it is a fact that last years flu shot was less than 10% effective (CDC).


And aluminum salt is a toxin

And this years shot contains thimerasol (mercury)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Flu Shot  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14134815 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134797 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134795 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134790 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134789 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134784 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134769 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14134754 Bill L said:


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In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:


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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


This post is unadulterated bullshit and dangerous to anyone dumb enough to believe the ravings of scurrilous people.



Those are facts so use whatever BS adjectives you want but try disputing that Big Pharma boy!



The CDC itself admitted to the 10% efficacy and aluminum (toxic metal) and occasionally mercury are used as adjuvants in thE flu vaccine. But again I didn’t advise anyone not to get just not for me. So you can continue to cast aspersions but the facts don’t change.



Aluminum hydroxide is a salt. That is the adjuvant used in almost every human vaccine ever. Decades of safety profiles.

Aluminum is tin foil which you have on your head.



That is nonsense


If
T’s An aluminum salt and there is still mercury in some flu shots and it is a fact that last years flu shot was less than 10% effective (CDC).


And aluminum salt is a toxin


And this years shot contains thimerasol (mercury)


And I’m not the one here telling people what to do, just said it’s not for me, so you can just keep marching to Big Pharma’s orders, I’ll pass.
Ugh..again misleading  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:54 pm : link
Thimerosol is not in the flu vaccines you get. It is used in multi-dose vials which isn’t the kind most people get. Plus thimerosol is harmless.
RE: RE: Flu Shot  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/18/2018 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14134700 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134215 DTgiants said:


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I'll pass



Same here, less than 10% efficacy last year and full of toxic metals.


What a moron.
Thimerool is ethylmercury  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 7:55 pm : link
Not mercury. Not what you’re thinking of.
RE: Ugh..again misleading  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14134821 Bill L said:
Quote:
Thimerosol is not in the flu vaccines you get. It is used in multi-dose vials which isn’t the kind most people get. Plus thimerosol is harmless.

RE: RE: Ugh..again misleading  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14134826 gmenatlarge said:
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In comment 14134821 Bill L said:


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Thimerosol is not in the flu vaccines you get. It is used in multi-dose vials which isn’t the kind most people get. Plus thimerosol is harmless.



Thimerasol is a form of mercury and pretty far from harmless. Listen you guys just keep getting your flu shots. But you might notice which side is attacking and calling people names. If you think that’s the thing to do go right ahead, but you’re the ones taking this personally, not me. So which Pharma do you work for.
I don’t work for any pharma  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 8:13 pm : link
But people spreading disinformation about health issues need to be stopped because they are dangerous.

Mercury and organic mercury are very different things. And thinerosol in vaccines is harmless. Or, provide the evidence which says that it is harmful. I can redirect you to cdc (and other medical sites) to support the lack of toxicity in vaccines. And, like I said, it’s not in the flu vaccine you would get.
RE: I have not had the flu or a sick day in 20 years...  
smshmth8690 : 10/18/2018 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14134570 EricJ said:
Quote:
so I am not messing with success. No way I am injecting the flu into me. If I get it, then I will deal with it.


Same here, only last year I got the flu. It was a miserable week, with a fever from Thursday to Monday, but I'm still not getting the shot.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 8:15 pm : link
I usually don't get the shot - but considering the dopes on that side of the argument here, I'm pretty sure I've been swayed towards actually getting it this year.

Doing the opposite of whatever Stan does is probably a pretty safe way to go about things.
hey i got called  
UESBLUE : 10/18/2018 8:17 pm : link
a "smarmy cunt" just for saying hers the annual thread lol.
There isn't really two equal sides  
pjcas18 : 10/18/2018 8:22 pm : link
about flu shots. There is science on one side and people who choose not to believe science on the other side.

As an American it's your right not to believe science, but it's societies duty to call you out for that, especially when your ignorance has the potential to impact the rational and responsible members of society.

But the people who peddle lies and say that the vaccines are actually  
Bill L : 10/18/2018 8:51 pm : link
Harmful, are the worst of the scurrilous.
RE: Chance you get the flu without the shot 5%  
Joey in VA : 10/18/2018 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14134354 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
With the shot 2.5%

Not worth it.
Barkley can't break tackles. Flu shots don't work. This may convince me to get one because you're such a fucking moron.
I guess I don't get why people  
MagicManning : 10/18/2018 10:02 pm : link
Who advocate for vaccines are so upset when people who don't want to get them voice there opinion. Especially if said people haven't been getting the flu year after year. I am not going to debate whether they are useful or worth it as there is far from enough complete information to drawer a valid conclusion. Both sides twist facts to push the agenda. I was always raised to get plenty of rest and eat right and get plenty of fresh air and so far that has worked pretty well. I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period.

Plus if the vaccines are so great and work so w
ell then why would you need everybody to have one? Can't you just get one and be fine? Your right to a vaccine doesn't extend to over ride anybody's to refuse one. Get over it
because when you don't get one  
Shirk130 : 10/18/2018 10:35 pm : link
you can become a carrier (even if you don't have symptoms)and pass it on to someone who has a compromised immune system.
RE: But the people who peddle lies and say that the vaccines are actually  
gmenatlarge : 10/18/2018 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14134864 Bill L said:
Quote:
Harmful, are the worst of the scurrilous.


You like to use scutrrilous, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
RE: I guess I don't get why people  
jcn56 : 10/19/2018 12:05 am : link
In comment 14134960 MagicManning said:
Quote:
Who advocate for vaccines are so upset when people who don't want to get them voice there opinion. Especially if said people haven't been getting the flu year after year. I am not going to debate whether they are useful or worth it as there is far from enough complete information to drawer a valid conclusion. Both sides twist facts to push the agenda. I was always raised to get plenty of rest and eat right and get plenty of fresh air and so far that has worked pretty well. I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period.

Plus if the vaccines are so great and work so w
ell then why would you need everybody to have one? Can't you just get one and be fine? Your right to a vaccine doesn't extend to over ride anybody's to refuse one. Get over it


I think it's because the people who advocate against it usually say ridiculous things like your last sentence, and try to pass it off as common sense that everyone should know and understand.

Your only argument in favor of not getting the flu shot is 'I don't trust the companies who develop it', and even that's just a gut feeling with no basis behind it. When people start posting absolute nonsense ("filled with metals" and videos back to DDT testing in the 40s), well, that's when they get made fun of.

It's not just vaccines - stupid posts get ridiculed, that's just how it is.
I get mine  
fkap : 10/19/2018 3:17 am : link
There are debatable medical practices, but IMO, flu vaccine is not one of them.

I feel for those who cannot get one because of legitimate medical reasons and are put at risk by people who foolishly (IMO) refuse to get one. Don’t feel bad for the fools.
RE: Chance you get the flu without the shot 5%  
Mike from SI : 10/19/2018 3:25 am : link
In comment 14134354 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
With the shot 2.5%

Not worth it.


Not worth it to spend 5 minutes to double your chance of not getting the flu? How is that, exactly?
RE: I guess I don't get why people  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 10/19/2018 3:28 am : link
In comment 14134960 MagicManning said:
Quote:
... there is far from enough complete information to drawer a valid conclusion.


another anti-vaxxer reaffirming my decision to get one
RE: I guess I don't get why people  
Mike from SI : 10/19/2018 3:32 am : link
In comment 14134960 MagicManning said:
Quote:
Who advocate for vaccines are so upset when people who don't want to get them voice there opinion. Especially if said people haven't been getting the flu year after year. I am not going to debate whether they are useful or worth it as there is far from enough complete information to drawer a valid conclusion. Both sides twist facts to push the agenda. I was always raised to get plenty of rest and eat right and get plenty of fresh air and so far that has worked pretty well. I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period.

Plus if the vaccines are so great and work so w
ell then why would you need everybody to have one? Can't you just get one and be fine? Your right to a vaccine doesn't extend to over ride anybody's to refuse one. Get over it


Are you familiar with the concept of herd immunity? I got mine last week and now I shit kryptonite. (Half of the previous sentence is true.)
It would help if people  
pjcas18 : 10/19/2018 6:47 am : link
did some reading about history of infectious diseases and vaccines.

I hope some of you who decide "I've never had the flu I'm not going to mess with what works" don't have kids, because unfortunately their immune systems are not as strong as adults and they are usually more exposed and susceptible, especially once they reach school age.

What was the typical prototype of a polio victim? Healthy, active, "breathes fresh air", clean, etc. how many people do you hear abut getting polio today. In fact, some theories say because people became "too clean" is what helped polio spread, children were no longer exposed to polio viruses as infants, and therefore had no antibodies against it.

What about smallpox? There were half a million people dying each year due to smallpox. How much do you hear about smallpox today?

You can't "pray" these diseases way.

and influenza was far more deadly than polio.

Why do you think you rarely hear about measles cases today anywhere except underdeveloped countries in Africa and Asia?

The measles vaccine was introduced in the late 60's. In 1980 worldwide over 2.5M people died from it, in 1990 it was around half a million and by 2014 that number globally is down to around 75,000. How do you think that happened? fresh air and vitamins?

Why do you think many of these diseases are no longer the epidemics they once were? People getting a lot of fresh air?

If it was just you, the individual, at risk, no one would care, it would be Darwinian if you personally contracted the disease and died, but as others have mentioned, you, being ignorant, puts others who are more susceptible at greater risk.

There is a lot that pharma companies due that is reprehensible and downright disgusting. Vaccines is not that.
getting mine this weekend  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 7:53 am : link
very rarely get sick,got the flu a few years back. amazed at how nasty it was.
RE: RE: But the people who peddle lies and say that the vaccines are actually  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 14135008 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14134864 Bill L said:


Quote:


Harmful, are the worst of the scurrilous.



You like to use scutrrilous, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Defamation of vaccines promulgated by scoundrels. That's from Webster.
Pretty timely, if you read the paper (and I know this personally)  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 9:10 am : link
there is a *huge* and serious outbreak of measles going on in NY. Other places as well, including Italy and Israel (which is where the NY outbreak began). Every single person who gets measles has to not only be tested and treated but every person they have come into contact with has to be investigated. The health consequences are layered on top of massive numbers of manpower and testing costs. It's huge economically. And to a large degree, it is due to villains like gmenatlarge et al.
Thats what she said  
UESBLUE : 10/19/2018 9:11 am : link
"I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period. "
RE: Thats what she said  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 14135247 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
"I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period. "


Oh please (to him, not you)....you bring billions of substances of unknown origin into your body every single day of your life.
RE: It would help if people  
MagicManning : 10/19/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 14135139 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
did some reading about history of infectious diseases and vaccines.

I hope some of you who decide "I've never had the flu I'm not going to mess with what works" don't have kids, because unfortunately their immune systems are not as strong as adults and they are usually more exposed and susceptible, especially once they reach school age.

What was the typical prototype of a polio victim? Healthy, active, "breathes fresh air", clean, etc. how many people do you hear abut getting polio today. In fact, some theories say because people became "too clean" is what helped polio spread, children were no longer exposed to polio viruses as infants, and therefore had no antibodies against it.

What about smallpox? There were half a million people dying each year due to smallpox. How much do you hear about smallpox today?

You can't "pray" these diseases way.

and influenza was far more deadly than polio.

Why do you think you rarely hear about measles cases today anywhere except underdeveloped countries in Africa and Asia?

The measles vaccine was introduced in the late 60's. In 1980 worldwide over 2.5M people died from it, in 1990 it was around half a million and by 2014 that number globally is down to around 75,000. How do you think that happened? fresh air and vitamins?

Why do you think many of these diseases are no longer the epidemics they once were? People getting a lot of fresh air?

If it was just you, the individual, at risk, no one would care, it would be Darwinian if you personally contracted the disease and died, but as others have mentioned, you, being ignorant, puts others who are more susceptible at greater risk.

There is a lot that pharma companies due that is reprehensible and downright disgusting. Vaccines is not that.


How much of these lowering of cases is do to modern sanitation practices and how much is due to the vaccines? Im pretty sure the sanitation and waste management in other places like Africa is laughable at best, not so much in America. Many European countries are very against vaccinations and have seen a similar decline in outbreaks? Why? Probably a combination of many things, vaccination being one of them but not the silver bullet.

My problem is not with people getting vaccines, its the belief (of some) that everyone should get them. You don't have to like my opinion and I don't have to like yours but neither way gives either one of us to force their own opinion on the other.

and where did you get your death totals from measles? IDSA show 259 deaths from 1987-1992. So your numbers seem to be off a little. Which makes me wonder what other numbers are off.
My numbers  
pjcas18 : 10/19/2018 9:39 am : link
come from the WHO and CDC. My numbers are global, are yours?

Here is a blurb from WHO website:

Quote:
...Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. Before the introduction of measles vaccine in 1963 and widespread vaccination, major epidemics occurred approximately every 2–3 years and measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

Approximately 89,780 people died from measles in 2016 – mostly children under the age of 5 years, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine.

Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the respiratory tract, then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.

Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000–2016, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.4 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 84% from an estimated 550,100 in 2000* to 89,780 in 2016....


and attached is a link to the CDC documentation on measles


Link - ( New Window )
I can't believe someone is arguing against the efficacy of vaccination  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 10:19 am : link
in general.

And not wearing furs or having a vestigial tail.


And, to be clear, whether or not you wish to get a vaccination is an individual right; whether or not vaccines are effective or protective is not the stuff of equal but differing opinions at all.
But still, that's just being ignorant  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 10:20 am : link
and not near half as bad as the one arguing that vaccines are not just ineffective but actually harmful. That's both ignorant *and* malignant.
RE: I can't believe someone is arguing against the efficacy of vaccination  
MagicManning : 10/19/2018 11:11 am : link
In comment 14135408 Bill L said:
Quote:
in general.

And not wearing furs or having a vestigial tail.


And, to be clear, whether or not you wish to get a vaccination is an individual right; whether or not vaccines are effective or protective is not the stuff of equal but differing opinions at all.


If you read what i wrote you can see i was not arguing whether they are effective. They are clearly somewhat effective. My contention is to show me some conclusive evidence that the vaccines are the ONLY reason for the decline in those numbers. Most of the people who die from these diseases come from 3rd world countries where there is limited food and potable water. That is more of a problem than not being vaccinated. This can be easily seen by the fact that in countries that are against vaccinations like France the death totals still remain low. Absolutely have a higher infection rate than countries that vaccinate, yes, But at what cost? Some children have adverse effects to vaccinations including death. And before the counter argument is made that it is rare and that its hard to say definitively that is the only reason for a person dying, I agree. But would you also be willing to agree that putting all your stock into vaccines as being the only reason for people not dying of diseases faulty as well? Cant have it both ways.

And if we want to worry about a problem we can all agree on here are some numbers that should be alarming.
The United Nations estimated last year 25,000 people still die of hunger daily. That means more than 9.1 million people die of hunger every year.

RE: RE: I can't believe someone is arguing against the efficacy of vaccination  
Bill L : 10/19/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 14135506 MagicManning said:
Quote:
In comment 14135408 Bill L said:


Quote:


in general.

And not wearing furs or having a vestigial tail.


And, to be clear, whether or not you wish to get a vaccination is an individual right; whether or not vaccines are effective or protective is not the stuff of equal but differing opinions at all.



If you read what i wrote you can see i was not arguing whether they are effective. They are clearly somewhat effective. My contention is to show me some conclusive evidence that the vaccines are the ONLY reason for the decline in those numbers. Most of the people who die from these diseases come from 3rd world countries where there is limited food and potable water. That is more of a problem than not being vaccinated. This can be easily seen by the fact that in countries that are against vaccinations like France the death totals still remain low. Absolutely have a higher infection rate than countries that vaccinate, yes, But at what cost? Some children have adverse effects to vaccinations including death. And before the counter argument is made that it is rare and that its hard to say definitively that is the only reason for a person dying, I agree. But would you also be willing to agree that putting all your stock into vaccines as being the only reason for people not dying of diseases faulty as well? Cant have it both ways.

And if we want to worry about a problem we can all agree on here are some numbers that should be alarming.
The United Nations estimated last year 25,000 people still die of hunger daily. That means more than 9.1 million people die of hunger every year.

It's not hard to find disease incidence numbers before and after the introduction of vaccines *in the same country*. I can pretty much tell you that there is no smallpox in the world anymore due to reasons other than installing as Brita.
Anecdotal evidence...  
Giant Fan Dan : 10/19/2018 12:02 pm : link
I was scheduled to get my flu shot yesterday (mandated by my employer) but I was home nursing the flu and 102 fever (going on 4 days now). My fiance who had her flu shot in early September has not caught this from me and I've taken zero precautions to keep from spreading it... So for the first time in my life I actually believe the flu shot works. Everyone go get your flu shot, the flu sucks
RE: RE: RE: I can't believe someone is arguing against the efficacy of vaccination  
MagicManning : 10/19/2018 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14135537 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14135506 MagicManning said:


Quote:


In comment 14135408 Bill L said:


Quote:


in general.

And not wearing furs or having a vestigial tail.


And, to be clear, whether or not you wish to get a vaccination is an individual right; whether or not vaccines are effective or protective is not the stuff of equal but differing opinions at all.



If you read what i wrote you can see i was not arguing whether they are effective. They are clearly somewhat effective. My contention is to show me some conclusive evidence that the vaccines are the ONLY reason for the decline in those numbers. Most of the people who die from these diseases come from 3rd world countries where there is limited food and potable water. That is more of a problem than not being vaccinated. This can be easily seen by the fact that in countries that are against vaccinations like France the death totals still remain low. Absolutely have a higher infection rate than countries that vaccinate, yes, But at what cost? Some children have adverse effects to vaccinations including death. And before the counter argument is made that it is rare and that its hard to say definitively that is the only reason for a person dying, I agree. But would you also be willing to agree that putting all your stock into vaccines as being the only reason for people not dying of diseases faulty as well? Cant have it both ways.

And if we want to worry about a problem we can all agree on here are some numbers that should be alarming.
The United Nations estimated last year 25,000 people still die of hunger daily. That means more than 9.1 million people die of hunger every year.



It's not hard to find disease incidence numbers before and after the introduction of vaccines *in the same country*. I can pretty much tell you that there is no smallpox in the world anymore due to reasons other than installing as Brita.


While I have conceded that i'm not trying to argue against the fact that vaccines are effective in slowing the spread of diseases. Many seem to hold steadfast in the proclamation that they are the solution to all the worlds problems when it comes to sickness. My stance remains and will always remain that they too also carry an inherent risk of side effects. Whether it be immediately after getting them or long term effects later. This does not make them bad but IMO makes them not right for me. Can you tell me how many people have died or had adverse effects from getting vaccines? The numbers are also lower than what is being reported as its a direct conflict of interest for someone who would make a living off giving vaccines to report something bad happening after giving one.

So we stand on opposite sides of the fence. Again I am not anti vaccine. I have gotten vaccines as a child but now i do not see the point as an adult. I think we are over vaccinating and doing just as much damage as what these diseases would be doing. Just my opinion




RE: RE: RE: RE: I can't believe someone is arguing against the efficacy of vaccination  
Mike from SI : 10/19/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14135629 MagicManning said:
Quote:
In comment 14135537 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14135506 MagicManning said:


Quote:


In comment 14135408 Bill L said:


Quote:


in general.

And not wearing furs or having a vestigial tail.


And, to be clear, whether or not you wish to get a vaccination is an individual right; whether or not vaccines are effective or protective is not the stuff of equal but differing opinions at all.



If you read what i wrote you can see i was not arguing whether they are effective. They are clearly somewhat effective. My contention is to show me some conclusive evidence that the vaccines are the ONLY reason for the decline in those numbers. Most of the people who die from these diseases come from 3rd world countries where there is limited food and potable water. That is more of a problem than not being vaccinated. This can be easily seen by the fact that in countries that are against vaccinations like France the death totals still remain low. Absolutely have a higher infection rate than countries that vaccinate, yes, But at what cost? Some children have adverse effects to vaccinations including death. And before the counter argument is made that it is rare and that its hard to say definitively that is the only reason for a person dying, I agree. But would you also be willing to agree that putting all your stock into vaccines as being the only reason for people not dying of diseases faulty as well? Cant have it both ways.

And if we want to worry about a problem we can all agree on here are some numbers that should be alarming.
The United Nations estimated last year 25,000 people still die of hunger daily. That means more than 9.1 million people die of hunger every year.



It's not hard to find disease incidence numbers before and after the introduction of vaccines *in the same country*. I can pretty much tell you that there is no smallpox in the world anymore due to reasons other than installing as Brita.



While I have conceded that i'm not trying to argue against the fact that vaccines are effective in slowing the spread of diseases. Many seem to hold steadfast in the proclamation that they are the solution to all the worlds problems when it comes to sickness. My stance remains and will always remain that they too also carry an inherent risk of side effects. Whether it be immediately after getting them or long term effects later. This does not make them bad but IMO makes them not right for me. Can you tell me how many people have died or had adverse effects from getting vaccines? The numbers are also lower than what is being reported as its a direct conflict of interest for someone who would make a living off giving vaccines to report something bad happening after giving one.

So we stand on opposite sides of the fence. Again I am not anti vaccine. I have gotten vaccines as a child but now i do not see the point as an adult. I think we are over vaccinating and doing just as much damage as what these diseases would be doing. Just my opinion





You're pitching this as a cost/benefit analysis tradeoff, but do you have numbers to support your opinion?
RE: RE: Thats what she said  
gmenatlarge : 10/19/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14135261 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14135247 UESBLUE said:


Quote:


"I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period. "



Oh please (to him, not you)....you bring billions of substances of unknown origin into your body every single day of your life.


yeah, but you don't inject them into your bloodstream, bypassing the body's natural filters. So now you're calling people "villains" how utterly ridiculous! You are taking this awful personal and then say you don't work for a pharma which I highly doubt. Calling someone a name doesn't delegitimize them as you and others of your ilk would like to imagine.
RE: RE: RE: Thats what she said  
Mike from SI : 10/19/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14135671 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14135261 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14135247 UESBLUE said:


Quote:


"I don't like the idea of somebody I don't know injecting a substance I don't know into my body. Period. "



Oh please (to him, not you)....you bring billions of substances of unknown origin into your body every single day of your life.



yeah, but you don't inject them into your bloodstream, bypassing the body's natural filters. So now you're calling people "villains" how utterly ridiculous! You are taking this awful personal and then say you don't work for a pharma which I highly doubt. Calling someone a name doesn't delegitimize them as you and others of your ilk would like to imagine.


You assume that people who are in favor of vaccines work for "a pharma?" I don't work for "a pharma." I think, in general, everyone should get vaccinated.
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