for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Giants sign WR Corey Coleman to the Practice Squad

Anakim : 10/18/2018 11:44 am
Yep, as in the first rounder a couple of years back


Dan Duggan
& #8207;
Verified account

@DDuggan21

The Giants signed WR Corey Coleman to the practice squad, per source. He had a workout yesterday.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
hope he learns the playbook  
spike : 10/18/2018 12:28 pm : link
by the end of the season.
Some scouting reports  
pjcas18 : 10/18/2018 12:34 pm : link
From Walter football

Quote:
Corey Coleman Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell

Strengths:
Deep-threat receiver
Second-gear speed
Can dominate receivers
Runs four routes well
Quickness
Adjusts well to the ball
Good feet
Forces teams to keep a safety deep
Quick in and out of breaks
Stretches a defense vertically
Quick release off of the line
Can separate late
Nose for the end zone
Ready to contribute immediately






Weaknesses:
Poor hands
Drops a significant amount of passes
Limited route experience from college
Not as sudden or explosive as made out to be
Quicker than fast
Decent run-after-the-catch skills, but not special
Product of a college system


Summary: Since Art Briles took over the Baylor program, the Bears have had a point-machine offense that has produced some quality skill position talent for the NFL. This year, Coleman is the program's top prospect as he had back to back big seasons.

Coleman wasn't the featured receiver in 2013, but he recorded 35 catches for 527 yards with two scores while playing in a complementary role. A year later though, Coleman became the lead receiver for the Bears' offense and totaled 1,119 yards on 64 receptions with 11 touchdowns. For 2015, Coleman dominated some weaker competition in the beginning of the year. That led to him setting Baylor's record for touchdown receptions with 20. He caught 74 passes for 1,363 yards on the season - along with those 20 scores.

For the NFL, Coleman is a speed receiver to challenge teams vertically. He has the quickness to get open and take the top off of defenses. Coleman would make for a dangerous slot receiver who would work really well with a big receiver on the outside. Against weaker cornerbacks, Coleman could demand some safety help over the top to prevent big plays. He has a nose for the end zone and is dangerous to take receptions to the house.

In speaking with sources, they see some issues that Coleman needs to work on as he gains experience. They say that while he is quick, he is not all that sudden or explosive for the next level. They feel that his runs after the catch were good for college football, but they suspect that it won't be as good in the NFL. A big issue that some team sources see with Coleman is his route-running and lack of development. At Baylor, Coleman only ran four routes: a hitch, a slant, a post and a go. Thus, he will need to learn more routes for the NFL. Team sources also say that Coleman drops a lot of balls. Thus, he is more of a developmental project than is commonly thought.

In the 2016 NFL Draft, Coleman could go as high as the back half of the first round to early in the second round.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2016ccoleman.php#ZV00VIIBDY64qb6G.99


From PFF:

Quote:
Corey Coleman isn't perfect, but he's 2016's top WR prospect
By Sam Monson • Mar 16, 2016

With the 2016 draft season underway, Sam Monson opens up his Analysis Notebook once again to share an in-depth evaluation of one top prospect each week. This week, we’ll explore the strengths, weaknesses and bottom-line scouting report for Baylor wide receiver Corey Coleman.

The last two draft classes have been loaded at receiver, and plenty of those players have hit the ground running in the NFL. Last year I thought as many as eight WRs could or should go in the first round (in the end, six did), and though this class might not be as top heavy, there are still a lot of interesting players coming out.

The best receiver in this class is Baylor’s Corey Coleman, but I don’t think he is in the same category as Amari Cooper, Kevin White or even DeVante Parker from a year ago.

Coleman is clearly a first-round talent, even in the better receiver drafts of last year or the year before, and he has several traits that the other top receivers from this class just don’t possess. The question is: Does his production and upside outweigh his drawbacks?
What he does well

Coleman brings to the table an elite suddenness with his movement — a trait that other top prospects in this draft class don’t possess. Hearing about fast-twitch receivers is common, and Coleman is that kind of player. He has the ability to make sudden moves that send defensive backs careening in the wrong direction and opening up huge amounts of space either before or after the catch.

He uses this sudden movement both in his route running to gain separation (and he separated at a greater rate than any other receiver in this class that PFF has charted), and after the catch to turn modest gains into huge plays.

Take a look at this slant route as an example:

Coleman1

This is not good play from the corner at any point, but just look at the difference in movement between the two players. Coleman snaps through his break to create separation and then stops on a dime and reverses field to the open space, making the corner miss and turning a routine completion into a touchdown. This is a player that scored 20 touchdowns this season, and who knows how many he would have ended up with had Baylor not been beaten up so badly at quarterback at the quarterback position. Not all of these scores were wide-open go routes against single coverage. Coleman is a receiver that knows how to beat his man to get into the end zone.

Coleman2

This play came in the same game. This time the corner he beat was Daryl Worley, himself a legit prospect with impressive tape and numbers. Coleman draws him in, makes him lunge and then breaks past him with quickness and is wide open in the end zone.

There are other players in this draft that can get open early, can win with quickness, and can separate from defensive backs, but none does it as regularly or as reliably as Coleman does.

To go along with that quick-twitch movement, Coleman has an incredible burst and acceleration off the line. Obviously being quick and fast in a straight line is a good thing for receivers generally, but in particular he eats up the cushion in coverage between himself and the defensive back like few other receivers in this class.

Coleman 1 IMG

Why is that important? The longer a cornerback can stay in his backpedal the better he is able to react in any direction and play whatever route the receiver runs. Staying square to the line of scrimmage in the pedal means that he can react to the inside or outside and match the receiver’s route. If the receiver can close the gap between the two players quickly and force him out of his pedal early because of his speed, he effectively makes the cornerback choose which side to defend and turn towards. The side that the corner turns away from is effectively closed off to him because he has no chance of reacting as quickly to that side and defending any route from the receiver into it.

Any wideout that can force a corner to come out of his pedal sooner than he wants to can use that to set up routes and break back to the side the corner has just turned away from, effectively adding an extra move or fake to his routes just with his release. Coleman has this kind of quickness, whereas most of the other top receiver prospects do not.
What he struggles with

Coleman comes out of the Baylor offense, which is one of the more extreme spread systems in the college landscape. It’s tough to evaluate receivers (and anybody else) coming out of that system because they limit what they ask of their players, leaving a ton of projection when it comes to the next level.

Coleman had 116 targets last season, and 76 of them were on either go routes or hitches. That’s two routes accounting for 65.5 percent of his targets, and neither one of them is particularly complex from a route-running standpoint. If you throw in slants and receiver screens you get another 27 targets, leaving only 13 targets that came on routes other than those four. He only played in 12 games, so you’re talking about one target per game that came on a route other than the four he usually runs.

There is a huge amount of projection in terms of figuring out if Coleman can run the full route tree at the next level. PFF has 21 distinct routes for wide receivers in our system and even the most basic of route trees have 11. Even in the big-print, entry-level version he doesn’t run two-thirds of the route tree, and one can only imagine how complex some of them are within NFL organizations.

Coleman IMG2

That negative isn’t necessarily his fault, but it is a big question mark teams need to place a value on.

Coleman’s first flaw on tape is a frustrating tendency for inconsistent hands, i.e. dropped passes. Drops are objectively bad, but they can say a few different things about the receiver. Is he simply dropping passes because he has bad hands and struggles to catch the ball? Does he actually have good hands but a habit of losing concentration (Brandon Marshall), or is he just inconsistent with his catching? I think Coleman is the last of those groups. He doesn’t have outright bad hands. Looking through his tape shows him naturally catching the ball without thinking about it and bringing in some tough catches. I don’t think that all of the drops are concentration either though, and I don’t think his hands are as good as a player like Brandon Marshall, who makes spectacular grabs that few receivers can make in between poor concentration drops.

Coleman’s issues are somewhere in between. His hands are good enough, but he does have concentration lapses at times and whatever way you slice it, puts too many balls on the ground.

In all, Coleman had 10 drops this season and seven the year before. Those are pretty big numbers and give him a drop rate over the two years of 11.0 percent of catchable passes dropped. That’s actually worse than Jordan Matthews in the NFL this past season, whose drops drove Philadelphia Eagles fans crazy, and exactly the same as Brandon Marshall’s career drop rate. Looking at only this draft class it’s bad enough to rank 90th among all eligible receivers — 4 percent worse than somebody like Josh Doctson, so it’s a legitimate concern. A player like Brandon Marshall makes a lot of big plays to offset his drops — will Coleman be able to do the same?

Coleman3

Here’s a good example from that same West Virginia game we looked at earlier. Coleman runs a simple slant, is wide open, and drops an easy pass that should have gone for a big gain. Right now it looks like you are going to have to live with a certain number of drops in his game, which only underlines the potential upside he needs to achieve to outweigh these negatives.

Coleman also waits for the ball to come to him too often, rather than attacking it and minimizing the chance a defensive back can break it up — another potential flaw in his game. While a player can get away with that in the Big-12 where defending is often optional, NFL cornerbacks will be close enough to make a play on any pass that isn’t picture perfect. Players like Odell Beckham Jr. will go up and get the ball if it is anything less than on the money, preventing the DB from getting in on it, but right now Coleman looks too comfortable with allowing them to try, and that’s something likely to become a bigger issue at the next level than it was in college.
The bottom line

It says something about this class of receivers that the best of the group is this much of a work in progress. Coleman comes out of an offense that makes so much of his NFL potential a pure projection, and yet strangely, I have almost no concerns about his route-running ability. Though he didn’t run many routes in college, he ran the ones he did with sophistication and understanding of how to set up defensive backs and get open. I think the chances of those traits being limited strictly to the four routes that Baylor runs is very small. It may take a bit of adjustment, but I expect Coleman to become a good NFL route runner capable of running the entire route tree.

He has elite quickness, burst and acceleration and is a big play waiting to happen in a way most of the other receivers in this class are not. This high-end athleticism and acceleration makes him dangerous before the catch and with the ball in his hands, and his run-after-the-catch ability is very underrated. Taller than many were expecting at 5-foot-11 and almost 200-pounds, he is not an insignificant threat with the ball in his hands.

If it wasn’t for his frustrating drops, he would be even higher in my estimation, but between those and being a little too passive when the ball is in the air, there are flaws to his game.

some videos in link: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-corey-coleman-an-draft



NFL.com

Quote:

Draft Analysis:

"He's a dynamic playmaker. Think Percy Harvin, that's the kind of playmaker that he is. He has a quick start and explosive speed. The only key for him is that he hasn't run a route tree. You will have to manufacture touches for him as he learns the route tree. He's special with the football in his hands." -- Mike Mayock


Overview

Coleman grew up in a tough Dallas neighborhood playing football in the streets, with a father who is currently serving prison time for felony cocaine distribution. But with the guidance and hard work of his mother, Cassandra Jones, as well as his godfather, former Baylor and NFL star defensive back Ray Crockett, Coleman fulfilled his potential as a playmaker at the college level. As a redshirt freshman, Coleman started 10 games in head coach Art Briles' offense, catching 35 passes for 527 yards and two scores, as well as averaging over 28 yards per kickoff return. His sophomore season started late, as he missed the first three games of the year with a hamstring injury, but finished strong. He was named second-team All-Big 12 (first team by the media) after covering 1,119 yards and scoring 11 times on just 64 receptions. Most importantly, Coleman came up big at the right times (15-224, TD vs Oklahoma, 7-150, TD vs Michigan in Cotton Bowl) ... but that was just a hint of things to come. Coleman won the Biletnikoff Award as the nation’s top receiver in 2015, along with unanimous All-American and first-team all-conference honors, leading the country with 20 touchdown receptions (74-1,363 receiving for the year). He missed the team's Russell Athletic Bowl win over North Carolina after having sports hernia surgery in December in order to be ready for the run up to the 2016 NFL Draft.

Pro Day Results
40-yard dash: 4.37 seconds
Analysis
Strengths Instant blur off the snap. Feet turn over at a blinding pace and he devours cushion before cornerbacks know what hit them. Able to get over the top of every corner he faced and demands safety help over the top. Works back to the ball. Explosive leaper with ability to climb ladder and win the 50/50 ball and body control to secure the acrobatic catch. Touchdown maker finishing 2015 with 20 receiving touchdowns. Smooth, speedy stems to the post will be difficult to mirror and match for NFL cornerbacks. Easy route adjustments in space. Defenders who try to jam and miss pay the iron price (touchdowns). Able to make tacklers miss in tight spaces. Has experience as ball carrier and punt returner. Heavily targeted (39 percent) in Baylor's high­-flying attack.
Weaknesses Does his best work from outside the numbers, but lacks desired NFL size to play outside. Allows cornerbacks to leverage him against the sideline on deep throws. Takes longer than expected to gear down for comeback routes after hitting top speed. Ran limited number of simple routes. Hands are a concern. Fails to catch away from his body. Dropped 10 passes for a drop rate of 11.9 percent. Loses focus and concentration on routes that work towards the middle of the field or when he senses defenders are closing in. Had sports hernia surgery that forced him to miss his bowl game.
Draft Projection Rounds 1 or 2
Sources Tell Us "He's my top receiver. Now this is for what we do so he's going to be tops for me. He can do a lot of things and I'm not worried about those simple routes because he's got some gifts to work with. Like him a lot more than (Laquon) Treadwell or the Notre Dame guy (Will Fuller)" -- AFC wide receivers coach
NFL Comparison John Brown
Bottom Line Dangerous vertical talent with the ability to get over the top of defenders who fail to recognize his blazing quickness off the line of scrimmage. Coleman can get instant separation to create favorable passing windows and is one of the top playmakers in this draft. Coleman's issues with drops near the middle of the field could be a concern if teams see him next as a slot receiver due to his lack of size. Regardless, he can line up outside and win and he offers immediate punt return help.



From draftwire:

Quote:
Arguably the best receiver in college football last season, Baylor wide receiver Corey Coleman offers rare athletic traits to an NFL offense, but must make the transition from Baylor’s spread attack to a pro-style scheme.
WR Corey Coleman

College: Baylor
Year: RS Junior
Birth Year: 1994
Height: 5-11
Weight: 194
Arm Length: 30 1/4
Hand Size: 9
Combine Results

40 Time: 4.37 (Pro Day)
Bench: 17
Vertical: 40.5
Broad: 10’9
3-Cone: DNP
Short Shuttle: DNP
60-yard Shuttle: DNP

Analysis

One of the more polarizing players in the 2016 NFL Draft class, Corey Coleman was an absolute monster at Baylor, capturing the Biletnikoff award as the nation’s top receiver in 2015. Coleman’s ridiculous numbers included averaging 18.4 yards per catch and scoring 20 touchdowns as a redshirt junior, giving him 33 scores over his final 22 games with the Bears. There is no question Coleman is one of the top athletes in the 2016 class, but questions surround his upcoming transition to an NFL offense and a more advanced route tree.

That isn’t to say that Coleman isn’t a good route runner, just that the vast majority of his patterns are fairly simple, and Baylor’s dangerous spread offense afforded him lots of space to work with. Nine routes, curls, and slants litter Coleman’s game tape, but there were occasions where he surprised with more intricate patterns as well.

Terrible throw, but it’s a brilliantly run PCP route that turns the defensive back all the way around in coverage. Easier to do with a stacked clean release, but the smoothness in Coleman’s subtle change of direction and hip movement suggest a receiver who can run dynamic routes at the next level with further development.

My absolute favorite trait of Coleman’s is his explosiveness off the ball. I love receivers that don’t mess around at the line of scrimmage, know what they are doing, and attack defensive backs in their release. For being a smaller receiver without great length, Coleman absolutely savaged press coverage at Baylor, showing lightning quick feet and good hand usage to avoid contact and accelerate into his patterns cleanly.

Smart receivers know how to set corners up with one quick jab step or head feint, then burst into their route without a ton of wasted motion. That’s consistently what you get from Coleman, who shows exceptional burst in his footwork at the line of scrimmage.

The above vine is basically WVU corner Ricky Rumph’s day in a nutshell, as Coleman shredded him and the Mountaineers secondary all over the field. Exhibit B:

Not many college wide receivers have the physical mindset to match a defender’s punch with one of their own against press coverage, so I love the sharp jolt Coleman gives the West Virginia corner here in his release. Then he chirps at his opponent after the touchdown, and you know I’m all about that stuff.

Coleman’s ability to use refined movement off the line of scrimmage is representative of his outstanding body control in all phases of the game, particularly when attacking the football.

Coleman is able to put his body in great position to win down the field because of how skilled the receiver is at tracking the football, even on off-target or overthrown passes. The play below is admittedly horrific defending, but Coleman does an excellent job of never giving up on the route and making a nice adjustment to snag the deep ball.

That brings us to Coleman’s abilities as a deep threat, which are substantial. His play speed is mesmerizing at times, gobbling up cushions and forcing safeties to widen their landmark to the sideline if they don’t want to get torched.

Coleman’s ability to successfully track down and finish catches despite contact sets him apart from other deep ball receivers in the draft like Will Fuller, who can struggle to consistently finish. Coleman’s not quite as fast, but is much better at winning in the vertical game when the situation isn’t perfect.

Lots of contact here, but Coleman shows the strength and concentration to complete the tough grab. The playmaking ability is alluring.

Now, you’re probably asking yourself, why isn’t this kid a top ten pick then? To explain that you have to understand the massive difference between Baylor’s offense and an NFL scheme. At Baylor, receivers do not block or even run corners off the vast majority of the time in the run game. Because of how fast the Bears offense moves snap-to-snap, and how many vertical routes their receivers run, rushing plays are an opportunity for pass catchers to catch their breath and recover for the next deep shot. Not only that, but on many of their packaged plays, one half of the field does next to nothing in their routes, simply acting as decoys to keep defenders away from the playside receiver. Obviously this will not be how any NFL offense operates, so Coleman will need to make the adjustment away from a scheme that asked very little of him for stretches of game play.

In addition, Coleman’s route tree will need work, but all the traits to become an elite route runner someday are clearly present in the receiver’s athletic skill set. If coaches believe Coleman is fiercely dedicated to the game and will work hard to maximize his abilities (as all signs seem to indicate), I believe this element of his game is worth the risk.

Many have heralded Coleman’s ability to “play big” despite lacking ideal size and length for the position, and while he does have that mentality, he isn’t always successful. Coleman has to high point the ball with better consistency down the field, or even a smaller corner like Kevin Peterson can have a hand in the outcome of a play like this one.

Really want to see Coleman go up and pluck the ball out of the air, something I know he has the body control and flexibility to do. It’s a great play by Peterson, but Coleman can certainly stand to improve in this area. He’ll let the ball into his body a lot and suffer way too many drops, but you can live with those given when he offers in terms of big play production and touchdowns.

Final two things about Coleman. One, the dude doesn’t miss many days in the weight room. Up there with Leonte Carroo as the most jacked receivers in this class. Body fat has to be under five percent. Two, he’s SCARY dynamic after the catch, with the juice to make defenders look positively stupid on his way to garnering major YAC.

I mean, come on now. What?

I think Coleman’s landing spot, his coaching, and his work ethic are going to be critical to his success at the next level. There’s certainly an element of risk involved in selecting the dynamic playmaker, but the NFL team willing to take that chance could be richly rewarded. Right now I see Coleman as an explosive element to a team that desperately needs a big play element in their offense, but he can be so much more than that with a little time and development. He’ll get a high second round grade from me as a top 30-35 player in this class, but ultimately Coleman is too exciting a talent to fall outside the top 25 picks come draft weekend.
Grade: 2nd Round
RE: RE: Call me crazy, but  
Anakim : 10/18/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14134260 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14134236 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


I'd rather have a high-character guy like Travis Rudolph on the PS: pulling down a paycheck, running the opponents' offense, and being a supportive guy in the locker room. Build the culture.


PS players don't really have much impact on your team's "culture". A PS player gives you even a little bit of trouble, you cut him.


I don't know about that. I remember reading a couple of years ago how a little practice squad player named Donte Deayon was really popular with the other players and helped form a culture (albeit a crappy one).
RE: Hard Knocks  
KerrysFlask : 10/18/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14134186 Big Al said:
Quote:
Here he is on Hard Knocks. I would have preferred getting the Browns offensive line coach. Hard Knocks - ( New Window )


Wow. Not surprising given the way he was taught in college. Literally told to be lazy on the field.
Baylor offense - ( New Window )
I dig it  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 10/18/2018 1:27 pm : link
Concentration drops have been an issue but also had some tough breaks--literally two of his first three seasons.

At the career cross-roads and hopeful he takes what could be his last chance seriously. Talent is there and hopeful the right attitude is there, as well.
Kick Returner??  
Jim Bur(n)t : 10/18/2018 1:48 pm : link
Never Know!
Only thing I will say  
DavidinBMNY : 10/18/2018 2:02 pm : link
Is that at least this team is trying. They haven't made all the right moves. They stink. But there's now way they aren't trying from the Front Office to the coach and I think to the players as well.
WTF do we have to lose ?  
TMS : 10/18/2018 2:06 pm : link
A measurables athlete taken in the first round who is on his way out of the NFL, back to the real world. Maybe OBJ will fix him and we will get lucky. Same type of potential bust as Flowers and TC took the chance.
RE: RE: I know almost nothing about  
rebel yell : 10/18/2018 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14134262 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
In comment 14134231 rebel yell said:


Quote:


him, but remember him from Baylor. He was good there. What's the NFL knock on the guy--is he just a head case? Like we need another one of those at WR!



Bad attitude and work ethic, and drops.


He should fit in nicely here.
Fine.  
AcidTest : 10/18/2018 2:37 pm : link
But he's had how many chances? Coleman still thinks that his sheer physical skill is all he needs to succeed in the NFL. If he doesn't understand by now that is not true, then he most likely never will.
Practice Squad ...  
Beer Man : 10/18/2018 2:45 pm : link
That's a great move. If he is unable to pickup/comprehend the Playbook, then he is gone with no risk, and (I believe) no impact to the Salary Cap
RE: RE: Call me crazy, but  
SHO'NUFF : 10/18/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14134260 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14134236 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


I'd rather have a high-character guy like Travis Rudolph on the PS: pulling down a paycheck, running the opponents' offense, and being a supportive guy in the locker room. Build the culture.


PS players don't really have much impact on your team's "culture".


Coleman sounds like a much smaller, much quicker Erik Flowers who we  
plato : 10/18/2018 3:17 pm : link
Just cut. Interesting
It's really no risk  
allstarjim : 10/18/2018 3:18 pm : link
And this guy is a 1% of 1% athlete. He probably won't ever make it, but he's so physically gifted it's worth taking a shot.
EVERYONE... EVERYONE...  
BamaBlue : 10/18/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14134518 plato said:
Quote:
RE: Coleman sounds like a much smaller, much quicker Erik Flowers who we Just cut. Interesting


... is quicker than Erik Flowers -- even Mr. Snuffleupagas.
From Boylhart (dated February 2016)...  
Milton : 10/18/2018 4:25 pm : link
Quote:
There is no doubt of Corey’s talent and ability to go deep and catch the ball and be an impact player, but he is not close to understanding mentally what it is to be a franchise player. Right now, Corey is a complimentary receiver with impact talent. He has to learn the whole route tree, be a strong blocker and, in general, be a better teammate and leader. He shows me by the way he plays that all he is interested in is whether or not Corey wins --not if the team wins. With the speed, strength and lateral explosion this kid has, teams should struggle to defend him on every route and not just some routes. Until that happens, Corey is just a receiver who, if you take away his favorite routes, is not much of a threat to impact. I like his talent and selecting him in the first round makes sense because of that talent. He has a lot of work to do before he can impact for more than four or five games consistently. There is a saying in the draft world: you can’t teach speed. Of course, my answer to this is, “You’re right, you can’t teach speed; however, you do have to show them when and how to use it.” Corey has all the physical tools to be a franchise player and hopefully will develop the mental tools and become just that. If not, you still selected an impact player. Just remember, there is a difference.

full profile - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 4:32 pm : link
It was very clear before the draft that he needed to learn the full route tree because all he ran @ Baylor were basically flys and deep posts and I kept being told that "he can run every route" and that my entire critique was nonsense.

"Cant miss player"

KWALL was roasting me for Treadwell who is at least still on his original team and getting PT while Corey Coleman is now on his 4th team in 2 years... and it's a practice squad.

There were a lot of concerns with Coleman coming out - the blocking downfield, the hands/drops, the route running.

Phenomenal athlete. Low IQ, limited player.

I'm cool with taking a shot. I loved the raw ability he had - but again, the concerns were very real, and he was never anything close to a can't miss prospect.

Eli Apple was a better pick. All issues included.
Feels like something Reese would have done  
Go Terps : 10/18/2018 4:53 pm : link
As time passes the differences between Gettleman and Reese become harder to find.
Eh, I've been as critical of Gettleman as anyone  
jcn56 : 10/18/2018 5:08 pm : link
but this is a good move. He's got the physical tools - if being in developmental status can turn him into a useful player over time, great. If not, it's not like we wasted a roster spot or much money on him.
Ummm  
Leg of Theismann : 10/18/2018 5:09 pm : link
How has no one made the point yet that the Pats most recently took a flyer on this guy and apparently determined he wasn't worth shit. If even the Pats can't find a way to make something out of the nothing, what makes us think the Giants will be able to?

Sure, it's a low risk signing, I get it, but I would be SHOCKED if this ended up amounting to anything positive whatsoever.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 5:12 pm : link
Picking up this type of player off the scrap heap is fine and makes sense.

Reese would have actually drafted him 10th overall.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 5:12 pm : link
My last post makes no sense... Reese was the GM and didn't do that. I need more coffee today.

Anyway. I'm fine with picking him up now. There's no risk. I doubt it'll pan out but there's nothing to lose.
RE: .  
Leg of Theismann : 10/18/2018 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14134696 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Picking up this type of player off the scrap heap is fine and makes sense.

Reese would have actually drafted him 10th overall.


100% agree. This is a very low risk, high reward move (albeit .01% chance of high reward), and is something *many* GMs would have done, so trying to use this as an example of "Gettleman = Reese" sounds like reaching to me and just makes that poster look like they have a pre-determined agenda to push regardless of the circumstances.
No one gets these all right  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 10/18/2018 5:20 pm : link
but reading Boylhart after the fact, he seems to get the intangible issues that hold players back more than most....
Sometimes these guys need a couple of kicks in the ass before they  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 10/18/2018 5:22 pm : link
realize they are going to lose it all. Hopefully he is there. If not, it cost a small amount of money to keep him around for a couple of weeks.
RE: .  
Leg of Theismann : 10/18/2018 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14134697 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
My last post makes no sense... Reese was the GM and didn't do that. I need more coffee today.

Anyway. I'm fine with picking him up now. There's no risk. I doubt it'll pan out but there's nothing to lose.


arc, I got your point though. Reese would have definitely been more likely than Gettleman to make a move like that based on his history. The point here is though that just signing Coleman to the PS is not indicative at all of what "kind" of GM Gettlman is or will be, when there is zero risk involved any GM could do it. Hell, Coughlin just signed Ereck Flowers with first-hand knowledge that he completely sucks, but he had to do it given the Jags' OT situation and it was a very low risk move. If Flowers doesn't work out, it's not going to prove that Coughlin in fact doesn't know shit about football (as I have seen some posters ridiculously say).
oh but  
Leg of Theismann : 10/18/2018 5:32 pm : link
arc, one thing: not sure why you had to mention that Eli Apple was a better pick than Coleman. No offense but that was the Captain Obvious statement of the day lol but I assume had to do with your low caffeine levels. That said, kudos on your early assessments of Coleman and Treadwell, I personally thought Treadwell was going to be a beast. Has not been the case in the least bit.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14134712 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14134697 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


My last post makes no sense... Reese was the GM and didn't do that. I need more coffee today.

Anyway. I'm fine with picking him up now. There's no risk. I doubt it'll pan out but there's nothing to lose.



arc, I got your point though. Reese would have definitely been more likely than Gettleman to make a move like that based on his history. The point here is though that just signing Coleman to the PS is not indicative at all of what "kind" of GM Gettlman is or will be, when there is zero risk involved any GM could do it. Hell, Coughlin just signed Ereck Flowers with first-hand knowledge that he completely sucks, but he had to do it given the Jags' OT situation and it was a very low risk move. If Flowers doesn't work out, it's not going to prove that Coughlin in fact doesn't know shit about football (as I have seen some posters ridiculously say).


Right - that's basically what I was getting at.

Coleman was the type of prospect Reese would have targeted in the draft even though we didn't take him. He was very in love with athletes and measureables but in most cases, it didn't translate to the football field.

Players like Coleman are exactly who I want the Giants taking fliers on when it comes to the practice squad - but they're not guys I'd be looking to draft.

A move like this doesn't really say anything negative about Gettleman in my eyes.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2018 5:40 pm : link
The Eli Apple thing was just a throw in comment - since we had well-documented issues with him last year, etc. It was just a way of contrasting how even though that wasn't a great pick, it was still better than taking Coleman would have been.

Coleman would likely have been another whiff - and when you totally miss on a top 10 pick (even if it is 10th overall), it puts another major dent in the progress of the team.
RE: RE: .  
jcn56 : 10/18/2018 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14134705 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14134696 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Picking up this type of player off the scrap heap is fine and makes sense.

Reese would have actually drafted him 10th overall.



100% agree. This is a very low risk, high reward move (albeit .01% chance of high reward), and is something *many* GMs would have done, so trying to use this as an example of "Gettleman = Reese" sounds like reaching to me and just makes that poster look like they have a pre-determined agenda to push regardless of the circumstances.


LOL, 'they have an agenda!' says the poster while displaying his obvious agenda.
What the fuck is  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 10/18/2018 6:15 pm : link
it with wide receivers?
Coleman has all the tools, except ...  
Manny in CA : 10/18/2018 7:41 pm : link

The strength to fight through a pro CB's press. He needs a lot of time in the weight room and some excellent coaching.

At this point, I think his best position is at the slot.
Aaah..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/18/2018 7:43 pm : link
I think he's the reverse Percy Harvin:

Quote:
Draft Analysis:

"He's a dynamic playmaker. Think Percy Harvin, that's the kind of playmaker that he is. He has a quick start and explosive speed. The only key for him is that he hasn't run a route tree. You will have to manufacture touches for him as he learns the route tree. He's special with the football in his hands." -- Mike Mayock


He gives everyone else migranes.
FMIC  
Jay on the Island : 10/18/2018 7:46 pm : link
For the win.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Leg of Theismann : 10/18/2018 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14134729 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14134705 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


In comment 14134696 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Picking up this type of player off the scrap heap is fine and makes sense.

Reese would have actually drafted him 10th overall.



100% agree. This is a very low risk, high reward move (albeit .01% chance of high reward), and is something *many* GMs would have done, so trying to use this as an example of "Gettleman = Reese" sounds like reaching to me and just makes that poster look like they have a pre-determined agenda to push regardless of the circumstances.



LOL, 'they have an agenda!' says the poster while displaying his obvious agenda.


Sorry, what is my agenda? Sure I have an opinion about the move, which is that it is a low-risk, high-reward, and basically "nothing" move, but I have no agenda about Gettleman one way or the other. I like some things he's done, don't like other things he's done, but believe he should be given 2-3 years before we make any ultimate judgment on him. Some posters seem to already have the pitchforks out, and that's painfully obvious when they take a relatively meaningless move and try to portray it as some sort of final indictment of the man being equivalent to Jerry Reese. That's what I mean by telegraphing a "predetermined agenda", and if it appears to you that I have one by all means call me out on it because I am not aware of it.
...  
christian : 10/18/2018 9:44 pm : link
Lol. Gettleman literally cuts all but 2 WRs Manning has ever thrown a pass. Brings on a bunch characters who won't be in the NFL next year. And now signing a clown who couldn't last 15 days on the Patriots.

The line between rebuild and clueless looks blurry.

The Giants are going to have 4 new WRs next year, in year 2 of the rebuild. Book it.
RE: ...  
Jay on the Island : 10/18/2018 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14134935 christian said:
Quote:
Lol. Gettleman literally cuts all but 2 WRs Manning has ever thrown a pass. Brings on a bunch characters who won't be in the NFL next year. And now signing a clown who couldn't last 15 days on the Patriots.

The line between rebuild and clueless looks blurry.

The Giants are going to have 4 new WRs next year, in year 2 of the rebuild. Book it.

You're making a big deal out of a practice squad signing. It's worth the gamble. If he misbehaves or just flat out sucks he will be gone. There is no risk here.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 10/18/2018 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14134943 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14134935 christian said:


Quote:


Lol. Gettleman literally cuts all but 2 WRs Manning has ever thrown a pass. Brings on a bunch characters who won't be in the NFL next year. And now signing a clown who couldn't last 15 days on the Patriots.

The line between rebuild and clueless looks blurry.

The Giants are going to have 4 new WRs next year, in year 2 of the rebuild. Book it.


You're making a big deal out of a practice squad signing. It's worth the gamble. If he misbehaves or just flat out sucks he will be gone. There is no risk here.


No Jay, I'm making a general observation on the state of the Giants WRs and the GM's ability to add talent that is part of the future success of the team. Do you think Gettleman added a WR who will be on this team next year?
Wow  
Jerry in DC : 10/18/2018 9:57 pm : link
Even I wouldn't complain about a practice squad guy. Gettleman could sign his favorite donut delivery boy and it wouldn't bother me too much. People are getting seriously cranky. I love it.

Practice squad is pretty meaningless on its impact on winning games. Most guys will never play. Even if they do play, theyre replacement level or like 1 percent better than another marginal guy off the street.

I actually like it. Prefer taking a risk on the small a talented guy figures it out than going for a marginal talent who will never be able to win 1 on 1 battles
You can give me every freaking draft write up you want.  
Carl in CT : 10/18/2018 10:39 pm : link
Bottom line, he doesn’t work hard, is a head case, not the smartest in the world just what we need. A big pass for me.
If he runs only  
XBRONX : 10/19/2018 7:08 am : link
four routes well, what is the problem using him?
RE: If he runs only  
Ira : 10/19/2018 7:20 am : link
In comment 14135146 XBRONX said:
Quote:
four routes well, what is the problem using him?


He caught 43% of his targets in two years. That's amazingly low.
talent is there  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:03 am : link
sometimes you have to handle certain players differently. coaches are psychologists. seems to be he was struggling and didn't handle it well.

practice squad might be a good way for him to ease his head into a pro mentality. wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have a guy with these tools to be your 3rd or 4th wr.
hmmmm  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:10 am : link
digging aournd a bit on Mr. Coleman
The trouble with Corey? - ( New Window )
little more on that  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:12 am : link
incident
smoke? - ( New Window )
could  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:18 am : link
laziness be an issue?
Hue re: Coleman in his rookie year - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 10/19/2018 8:29 am : link
The best program in all of sports, maybe in the history of sports, got rid of him in 18 days.

A program that fixed Randy Moss, opted for Josh Gordon, shit, that functioned with Aaron Hernandez, bailed in less than 3 weeks.
Probably been said before but  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:39 am : link
Browns had # 2 pick in that draft. Traded the pick to Philly and went down to get Coleman. Philly drafts Carson Wentz.

And that is why Cleveland is Cleveland (at least pre-Dorsey Borwns).
christian  
bc4life : 10/19/2018 8:41 am : link
When they got rid of him, didn't they pick up Gordon?

Bellichek quote "We know a lot more about him than we did before...but again, he's a talented player"

Not saying it will work out, it's worth a PS gamble IMO.
RE: christian  
christian : 10/19/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 14135191 bc4life said:
Quote:
When they got rid of him, didn't they pick up Gordon?

Bellichek quote "We know a lot more about him than we did before...but again, he's a talented player"

Not saying it will work out, it's worth a PS gamble IMO.


They dropped him from the roster for Gordon, put him on the PS for 9 days before cutting bait.

Sounds like what Belichick learned wasn't very encouraging.

Gettleman effectively punted this season to clean out the roster, including ditching players who were perceived to be lazy and had attitude issues. The team shouldn't waste a breath on Coleman.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner