Given the recent comments from Bill B, I took a step back to think about the man, myth and legend that is LT.
I was just a kid in the 80's and vividly remember how electric this guy was. From the LT chants at the stadium, to Sunday's mimicking his sacks in my back yard, the guy was just everything for this Jersey kid. I currently see hints of it in Barkley already and I hope and pray he finds the same success via the team in the years to come.
With all that said, it's an interesting debate to think about LT in a 2018 version of the NFL. A league where guys are so much faster and stronger than the past.
From my seat, in the same manner the "current athlete" evolved into stronger, faster versions of years prior, I assume he would have too. Even if he didn't, he was so much better than anyone on the field any given week, that I truly believe the same would be the case today. He was double teamed every week, and still had the success he had. Full defenses schemed for him and it meant nothing to him.
With that said, other things come to mind given the back drop of 2018. Would his personal life and extra curricular vices play a role in his progression as a player/person? Or would it be an impediment to his growth? How would he have handled social media? Being exposed to the masses on a day to day basis. We talk much about technology/media and how it affects OBJ. How would it have impacted LT, given the booze, drugs and women. This is a guy that has legendary party stories swirling around him. Think about those stories with Iphones in his presence.
How would he have performed in a league where two hand touch is the new rule of the land on QB's. I'm sure he would have adapted. But like a Tyson in his prime, void of that aggression, would LT really be "LT?" That is what was woven into the fiber of the man.
My stance... He's the GOAT, and I witnessed it first hand for perspective. That will never change. But 2018 is a far different world than the world he played in, not only for athletes, but for all of us. Hard to say if the GOAT would have managed it well, or fallen to the pressures. Regardless, I'll keep the memories right where they are with chants of LT, LT running through my head.
Yes, exactly. Sports is a physical and mental game. I'm unsure how LT would coexist in the spotlight in 2018. I do not think it would have been good. As a result, he played at the PERFECT time when things were less publicized and football was kill or be killed.
It's no coincidence that 3 GOATs basically started their Giants career together.
It's no coincidence that 3 GOATs basically started their Giants career together.
I will say Saquon has something about him though that is very LT. He is usually the best player on the field, and he consistently does stuff game to game that are like career highlights for other guys.
Can you imagine Barkley with a real o line. He'd average 200 all purpose per game.
As good, or great as Barkley can be, by being a RB he'll never likely be able to redefine how the game is played.
Nobody like LT. Not ever/
If I remember correctly, LT didn't work out much until he came back from his Achilles injury. He still dominated his opponents.
Instagram and Facebook would have definitely exposed some of his off field issues.
He is the GOAT. My favorite player of all time!
If I remember correctly, LT didn't work out much until he came back from his Achilles injury. He still dominated his opponents.
Instagram and Facebook would have definitely exposed some of his off field issues.
He is the GOAT. My favorite player of all time!
Ha, I didn't even think about what we would have to pay him.
Nobody like LT. Not ever/
Come on now, Mack is absolutely 25% of LT. That is just nuts. Guy is an animal playing against 330 lineman and winning All pro at two positions.
But he's not transforming the game the way LT did.
If I remember correctly, LT didn't work out much until he came back from his Achilles injury. He still dominated his opponents.
Instagram and Facebook would have definitely exposed some of his off field issues.
He is the GOAT. My favorite player of all time!
Easily my favorite player all time. Not close.
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But LT had GOAT coaches Bellichek and Parcells. Sanquon is saddled with Schumer and Shula...
It's no coincidence that 3 GOATs basically started their Giants career together.
I will say Saquon has something about him though that is very LT. He is usually the best player on the field, and he consistently does stuff game to game that are like career highlights for other guys.
Can you imagine Barkley with a real o line. He'd average 200 all purpose per game.
I would be doing all sorts of unconventional things with SB, lining him up as WR running WR routes, slot, WR screen, jet sweeps, wildcat, HB option pass, shovel passes, pass rush specialist...
Shurmur calls WCO hook routes to our primary target 4th string TE ffs!
There's a deep-seated tendency to discuss black athletes in terms of their physical gifts (fast, strong, long, whatever) and to discuss white athletes in terms of their mental gifts (leadership, work ethic, motor, whatever). I think the discussion of LT tends to over-emphasize his speed and strength and under-emphasize his football smarts and competitiveness.
Somebody (maybe David Stern?) said about Michael Jordan that he's what you get when you combine the game's greatest physical talent with its most competitive spirit. That's what LT was: He was incredibly gifted physically, but I don't think that's what set him apart. Lots of guys are physically gifted, and were near enough to his ability to be comparable. But LT was incredibly competitive, incredibly driven. He pushed himself through unbelievable amounts of pain, like the game he played with one shoulder.
Unfortunately, that drive and competitiveness weren't enough to keep him off cocaine. He said himself that one of his teammates joked with him that once he retired, he could go back to doing drugs, and that idea stuck in his head -- one of the reasons he retired was so he could go back to the drugs.
There's a deep-seated tendency to discuss black athletes in terms of their physical gifts (fast, strong, long, whatever) and to discuss white athletes in terms of their mental gifts (leadership, work ethic, motor, whatever). I think the discussion of LT tends to over-emphasize his speed and strength and under-emphasize his football smarts and competitiveness.
Somebody (maybe David Stern?) said about Michael Jordan that he's what you get when you combine the game's greatest physical talent with its most competitive spirit. That's what LT was: He was incredibly gifted physically, but I don't think that's what set him apart. Lots of guys are physically gifted, and were near enough to his ability to be comparable. But LT was incredibly competitive, incredibly driven. He pushed himself through unbelievable amounts of pain, like the game he played with one shoulder.
Unfortunately, that drive and competitiveness weren't enough to keep him off cocaine. He said himself that one of his teammates joked with him that once he retired, he could go back to doing drugs, and that idea stuck in his head -- one of the reasons he retired was so he could go back to the drugs.
It's a great point. There were ancillary factors to LT often overlooked. That guy played with a motor NO ONE on the Giants currently has. Next level stuff. To your point, he was very smart, he knew when things were coming, and how they were coming.
His smarts though stayed on the football field, as his decisions off, were far from it.
I actually the A Football Life did a poor job in really driving home the man, the player, the teammate. It was meh for me.
This dude was dynamic, good and bad. Like nothing I've ever seen.
It’s funny though, there is a bit of LT in Barks in the way he makes us say, “wow”!. Barks gets me out of my seat even in a lost cause and he’s made me say “wow” a whole lot already. Barks looks like the goods.
It’s funny though, there is a bit of LT in Barks in the way he makes us say, “wow”!. Barks gets me out of my seat even in a lost cause and he’s made me say “wow” a whole lot already. Barks looks like the goods.
agreed
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Khalil Mack couldn't carry LT's jock. He's not 25% of the player LT was, running down the line of scrimmage to make run stops from behind on sweeps, delivering stunning power rushes to knock guys 75 pounds heavier over backwards, getting the edge with speed rush and forcing fumbles and ripping QBs to the ground like rag dolls.
Nobody like LT. Not ever/
Come on now, Mack is absolutely 25% of LT. That is just nuts. Guy is an animal playing against 330 lineman and winning All pro at two positions.
But he's not transforming the game the way LT did.
still not 25% of LT
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In comment 14134552 VinegarPeppers said:
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Khalil Mack couldn't carry LT's jock. He's not 25% of the player LT was, running down the line of scrimmage to make run stops from behind on sweeps, delivering stunning power rushes to knock guys 75 pounds heavier over backwards, getting the edge with speed rush and forcing fumbles and ripping QBs to the ground like rag dolls.
Nobody like LT. Not ever/
Come on now, Mack is absolutely 25% of LT. That is just nuts. Guy is an animal playing against 330 lineman and winning All pro at two positions.
But he's not transforming the game the way LT did.
still not 25% of LT
haha
Quote:
But LT had GOAT coaches Bellichek and Parcells. Sanquon is saddled with Schumer and Shula...
It's no coincidence that 3 GOATs basically started their Giants career together.
I will say Saquon has something about him though that is very LT. He is usually the best player on the field, and he consistently does stuff game to game that are like career highlights for other guys.
Can you imagine Barkley with a real o line. He'd average 200 all purpose per game.
Shit, SB with our 2011 line would look even more amazing then this shit box of an OL.
Mack is an absolute tank, he is a powerful 260+ lbs which means he has 15-20lbs on LT and Miller . He's a beast at the Point of Attack, the best of the "next LTs" at this aspect which is why he's such a monster vs. the run. However, he isn't nearly as fast as LT and a little more limited because of it.
LT's pursuit and closing speed on the ball-carrier is what sets him apart from these two imo. LT was capable of playing MLB with his sideline-to-sideline speed. His closing speed/pursuit is probably closer to Landon Collins than it is to Mack or Miller. I know Von Miller had a great 40yd dash time, but I haven't seen him replicate LT's game-speed in pursuit.
Mack and Miller are dominating the game today, and I think LT has a better skillset than either of them without even taking into account any "modern athletes train better" hypotheticals.
People overstate the "he'd be flagged on every hit!" thing with LT. Actually, if you watch him you'll notice how often he had textbook clean tackles. He did like to horse-collar though which he'd need to fix, but he wasn't a head-hunter like some people think.
Off-the field, who knows. Coke is still a part of the party culture, but the 70s/80s were another level. Tough to say how he'd be different off-the field in today's twitter/insta era.
LT's name called only two or three times in the game, but he was there to wrap up the fumble forced by Howard and save the game.
Strangest sight: Leonard Marshall, running at full speed, lowers his head and plants his helmet directly between the shoulder blades of Montana, knocking Montana off the field for a few plays.
Today Marshall is ejected. On that day the hit hardly caused a stir between the announcers.
[quote] in years. Was that the golden age of the NFL? Summerall and Madden in their prime. Tacklers tackling. Montana and Rice. Underrated CB Mark Collins making two plays on Rice in the first half. Hostetler, who looked like a statue, ran like an athlete. Every other play not being reviewed in New York.
LT's name called only two or three times in the game, but he was there to wrap up the fumble forced by Howard and save the game.
Strangest sight: Leonard Marshall, running at full speed, lowers his head and plants his helmet directly between the shoulder blades of Montana, knocking Montana off the field for a few plays.
Today Marshall is ejected. On that day the hit hardly caused a stir between the announcers. [/quote
Honestly, could be my favorite all time Giants memory.
True, but he has a long career ahead barring injury. Look at AP, guy is still going strong for Skins.
We'll dial in a team around him. We helped the cause by adding Hernandez as a second round compliment to his pick. Will take a few more years though.
You're right about the tackling, though. I've made that point before - if you watch the highlight clips on YouTube, LT's form was generally excellent. He didn't lead with his head, and most of his hits would be just as legal today as they were then. The one thing you could probably hit him on today would be that "full weight" thing, he did tend to drive players into the ground.
There have been comparable athletes to LT. What sets him apart is his ferocity. He was an absolute maniac on the field who played with complete and total abandon, with no regard for his own well being. That mentality packaged with his natural physical gifts is what made him the player he was.
I do wonder sometimes how much better even LT could have been if he actually trained, since he famously never lifted weights. Imagine LT, only with the benefit of modern training techniques. Yikes.
If they didn’t get him he would be suspended every week for killing the QB
last night he destroyed St Louis in a way that was similar to LT
Miller can disrupt the planned offensive scheme of opposing team
he can take over a game with his moves
You're right about the tackling, though. I've made that point before - if you watch the highlight clips on YouTube, LT's form was generally excellent. He didn't lead with his head, and most of his hits would be just as legal today as they were then. The one thing you could probably hit him on today would be that "full weight" thing, he did tend to drive players into the ground.
There have been comparable athletes to LT. What sets him apart is his ferocity. He was an absolute maniac on the field who played with complete and total abandon, with no regard for his own well being. That mentality packaged with his natural physical gifts is what made him the player he was.
I do wonder sometimes how much better even LT could have been if he actually trained, since he famously never lifted weights. Imagine LT, only with the benefit of modern training techniques. Yikes.
I remember reading that Taylor played at roughly 245lbs, I think his weight probably fluctuated from the 240-250 range. Mack was up at 265-270 a couple of years ago but some sources say he dropped to the 255-260 range. Maybe it’s a ~10lbs difference, maybe it’s 15+ lbs. Either way I think Mack is a naturally bigger man than LT, he’s noticeably thicker. LT was taller, leaner, and faster though. Mack is right up there with LT in terms of power imo, he’s a beast.
I agree about LT’s weight training, he had a very odd mindset than what you typically see from legendary athletes. A lot of great athletes have the thought process of “I’m not here just because of God-gifted talent, I’m also here because of all the hard work I’ve put in “. LT’s mindset was “I’m just naturally better than you and always will be no matter how hard you work to catch up”. It’s really something else that he was so strong for his size without being committed to weight training.
I think Von Miller caliber speed + Khalil Mack caliber power + Troy Polamalu caliber hustle/instinct/pursuit is a rough estimate of what I think LT would be today.