Gettleman's Mantra- How are we measuring up ? ....

#IAEF

There was a lot of turnover, and a lot of bad to undue.

You can't undo nearly 10 years of bad drafting in one year.

The problem is, personnel.

The run game has so many negative plays that it can't run the ball enough due to poor run blocking. Which often leads to long 3rd downs that the Giants can't inevitably get because of their inability to throw down the field.

The pass rush was missing its best pass rusher for the whole season, and outside of that, has nothing in the form of a legit pass rusher otherwise. Hoping McIntosh can add to the pass rush from a lineman standpoint, because we are getting nothing out of Snacks or Tomlinson on that front.

Thus far, Gettleman's been a disaster. We can all argue Barkley vs. a quarterback but just look at his free agent signings and the money given to these players that HE selected. As for his draft selections that most here have applauded, we all can say that the first two picks look like winners but the jury is out on the rest. Hill and Carter have had some decent moments but in no way is there enough to say that we have finally gotten over the ineptitude of our most recent 3rd round picks. Lauletta? McIntosh? Who knows? The product on the field is awful and there is plenty of blame to go around that definitely includes the GM.

The question - What do you do to mitigate your unfortunate circumstances - Do more of the same, and hope for different results ?

The Run Game - Defenses are ALREADY "stacking" the box trying to stop Barkley. Why not go to a "jumbo" package - An extra lineman (not tight end) on the L.O.S. We've got three young RBs with fresh legs - Barkley, Gallman and Martin - to jam the ball down their throats.

Run Defense - Haven't seen our defense doing too much stacking. Maybe we need to do some, too

Pass Rush - Bettcher was the master blitz guru with the Card. I want to see a lot more.

and 23rd in rushing defense (yards per game) you can't look at total yards allowed when 1/3rd of the league has played only 5 games

to determine if they are meeting their targets and goals.

The won loss record is all you need...

is our only real pass rusher, and he was out for most of the season. Carter and Martin apply pressure intermittently. Any other pressure only comes from safety and corner blitzes. Snacks, Tomlinson, Hill, and Edwards are run stuffers. The end result is very little pressure.

Teams control our OL with just four or five DL, and drop everyone else back into coverage. That means Eli is usually throwing against six or seven defenders, which creates a lot of check downs. A more mobile QB would mitigate that problem, but it would still exist. The end result is an offense that frequently needs all three downs to get 10 yards, and at least a dozen plays just to get into FG range. We couldn't even move the ball on the Saints, who have a terrible defense.

Gettleman's draft was excellent, but his FA signings were bad. Solder was overpaid. Omameh, Barwin, Martin, Stewart, and Latimer should not have been signed.

Welcome to YEAR ONE of a rebuild with a new GM, new Coach, and 60% of last year's roster turned over.

You've strengthened my points ...

9th in rushing yards/attempt - what the heck are we not running the ball a lot more ??? (and not knocking the crap out of the defense [with a "jumbo" blocking package]), for good measure.

23rd or 26th rush defense. That is NOT acceptable. We need to control the L.O.S. , by whatever means necessary (even variations of Buddy Ryan's old "46").

Fact that the guy really thinks that running the ball and stopping the run are the key to winning is grounds for immediate firing.

It's not true and it's been known to be not true for a long time. It's astonishing that this guy is running our team.

So you want to try to leverage the running game? And you're going to do that with what Football Outsiders and anyone with eyes ranks and knows is the worst OL in the NFL? Good plan.

In comment 14134673 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

You've strengthened my points ... 9th in rushing yards/attempt - what the heck are we not running the ball a lot more ??? (and not knocking the crap out of the defense [with a "jumbo" blocking package]), for good measure. 23rd or 26th rush defense. That is NOT acceptable. We need to control the L.O.S. , by whatever means necessary (even variations of Buddy Ryan's old "46").

We are constantly playing from behind so we can't stick to the run. We also do a lot of dump passes in place of running due to the poor run blocking of the line, so that stat is skewed in reality.

have panned out other than maybe ogletree. solder will be here next year i imagine. not sure about the rest.

I mean helping or abysmal O-line with an extra lineman (not a tight end) at the L.O.S. or a jumbo fullback (a lineman).

On the subject of Gettlman's Mantra; he's right. If you can run at a high level, you FORCE the defense to creep up, then you throw the ball over the top.

Likewise if you stop the run, you win 1st & 2nd downs. Now their offense is 3rd and long; time to sic the dogs on their QB.

The idea is to PUNISH their defense, even if they get ahead early. Then you bury them in the 2nd half.

We had no other option at Left tackle. I think he did the best he could with that signing or he could of went with Flowers. Let's hope Solder is a little more than serviceable. I think we will see a different line coach next year as well.

In comment 14134642 WillieYoung said:

Quote:

and 23rd in rushing defense (yards per game) you can't look at total yards allowed when 1/3rd of the league has played only 5 games

So freakin what! We all know this team has NO running attack save for what SB provides by himself! IMO DG has been one epic fail at this point with all of his FAs sucking big time starting with Solder!

Well for all the Getts sucks camp. What free agents were to be signed by the Giants? Stewart certainly can be questioned but I believe he was signed before the draft and not knowing they would have Barkley. With our other young back a successful veteran and someone he knew closely regarding leadership does not seem like the worst gamble imv.

I doubt management wanted to say we are in a rebuild and I hope the plan was to take a shot with what was available with Eli. Perhaps Year 2 is best to judge. Stronger Oline, franchise back and a new QB. Some nice other pieces added this year and more cap room for next year.

In comment 14134757 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

We had no other option at Left tackle.

This is not accurate.

There's a lot of bad news, but there's some good news - we have a good stable of young running back with fresh legs in Barkley, Gallman and Martin and young studs at WR in OBJ and "not a tight end" Engram.

If somehow, we can keep our defense off the field as much as possible, I think we're good enough to steal some games, this year.

Who then? I do not recall many options at LT. The first target I believe was Norvell. He may have wanted to strengthen from inside out and went with Plan B to get the best available tackle.

In comment 14134736 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

I mean helping or abysmal O-line with an extra lineman (not a tight end) at the L.O.S. or a jumbo fullback (a lineman). On the subject of Gettlman's Mantra; he's right. If you can run at a high level, you FORCE the defense to creep up, then you throw the ball over the top. Likewise if you stop the run, you win 1st & 2nd downs. Now their offense is 3rd and long; time to sic the dogs on their QB. The idea is to PUNISH their defense, even if they get ahead early. Then you bury them in the 2nd half.

Right problem, wrong solution. We HAVE been doing that. We need to do the opposite. Stop trying to bring in extra blockers because that brings extra defenders. The odds of us losing some of those battles increases, the lanes close up a lot quicker, and the holes are much smaller when it is congested. It is a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, we should be putting less people in the box and spreading out a defense to create natural running lanes, make the holes larger, and give Barkley room to use his vision and ridiculous athleticism. We actually have good run blockers at our skill positions. Splitting Engram out creates an advantage for us with him blocking a safety or possibly a corner. Beckham for all the shit he gets will block. Shepard blocks as well but sometimes lets his emotions get the best of him but in terms of effort these guys give it. Spread the defense out and you'll see improved consistency.

but the other signings in Free Agency were not that bad given the financial circumstances. Keep in mind we had limited dollars this off-season and DG had to fill the roster. It’ll take more then one off-season to get better talent here. In fact, I would consider trades to load up on draft picks.

In comment 14134859 Simms11 said:

Quote:

but the other signings in Free Agency were not that bad given the financial circumstances. Keep in mind we had limited dollars this off-season and DG had to fill the roster. It’ll take more then one off-season to get better talent here. In fact, I would consider trades to load up on draft picks.

Agreed. I would like to see Gettleman put Vernon, Jenkins and Snacks on the trade block to see what they can get. I would also tag Collins and see if anyone will trade a pick for him. Adding a couple 2nd/3rd round picks would really help them add quality cost controlled depth.

They could take a QB in the first round and focus on the o-line, pass rush and secondary help in the 2nd and 3rd.

In comment 14134674 Jerry in DC said:

Quote:

Fact that the guy really thinks that running the ball and stopping the run are the key to winning is grounds for immediate firing. It's not true and it's been known to be not true for a long time. It's astonishing that this guy is running our team.

Great point. Almost e era nfl defense is adequate against the run these days. I also don’t get this dinosaur mentality

between rushing attempts and whether you're up or behind in games. And guess what....

are my biggest concern with Shurmur (and not who he's been in any other stop which raises an eyebrow) but it's also worth noting the Giants have held the lead for the fewest clock minutes of any team in the NFL, a dubious stat I believe they lead the NFL in the last 2 years. Basically the Giants never have the lead (almost literally never) and could at least partially explain the low attempts.

We all knew the pass rush would suck without Vernon and average with him. That's next year's project.

The run D, however, is not what was expected. Snacks is injured and B.J. Hill has been wolf tickets so far as Wynn starts. And Tomlinson isn't exactly Fletcher Cox. I was impressed with his preseason but where's that next step from DT? Is he a force or is he JAG? This was supposed to be a dominant 1,000# run stopping wall but it hasn't played out that way.

In comment 14134831 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

Who then? I do not recall many options at LT. The first target I believe was Norvell. He may have wanted to strengthen from inside out and went with Plan B to get the best available tackle.

The Patriots replaced Solder a month after he signed with the Giants by trading their 3rd round pick to the 49ers for Trent Brown, got a 5th round pick with it, and are paying him this season less than $2 million in salary.

All Brown has to do is play average for the Patriots to get positive return on that trade based on the money they are committed to him.

The Bengals acquired Glenn from Buffalo that included a swap of each teams first round, fifth round, and sixth round picks.

The Giants were not forced into signing him. Under this idea, the Patriots should have kept Solder at whatever cost because no other alternatives were available. Clearly they didn't believe that and let him walk, replaced him, and have not had any noticeable drop in performance on offense since his departure.

Options were available if they looked hard enough. No team is ever forced into doing anything they don't want.

If the idea is that they were "desperate," that doesn't make sense either because I thought (at least from what I read here) they were "rebuilding." I don't believe you can be desperate and rebuilding at the exact same time.

In comment 14135386 mittenedman said:

Quote:

are my biggest concern with Shurmur (and not who he's been in any other stop which raises an eyebrow) but it's also worth noting the Giants have held the lead for the fewest clock minutes of any team in the NFL, a dubious stat I believe they lead the NFL in the last 2 years. Basically the Giants never have the lead (almost literally never) and could at least partially explain the low attempts.

By my calculation, the Giants have held the lead this season only 20.3% (72 minutes, 57 seconds) of the time through 6 games.

If you add in the game being tied/winning, the number only jumps to 29.5%.

To put that number in perspective, here is where the Giants were last season when they started 1-5:

Lead percentage - 30.9%
Tied/Winning - 51.5%

So incredibly, they were better last year as a team when it came to simply having a lead they are this season through the exact same sample size of games.

different players, which is a good thing. Can't cut OmaysuckmyMah - but force him to move to league min, and a backup guard. His base salary restructure + bonus. Rest are straight Cuts. I would like to keep Ellison, for for 75% pay cut.

Spotrac is your friend.

CAP TOTALS
Total Available Cap:
$191,440,890
Dead Cap $:
$27,543,096
Offensive Cap $:
$62,989,333
Defensive Cap $:
$36,291,520
Special Teams Cap $:
$720,000
Total Team Cap $:
$127,543,949

Cap Space:
$63,896,941

Total Savings:
$45,033,332
TRANSACTIONS LOG (HIDE)
Released Eli Manning
(Saved: $17,000,000)
Released Olivier Vernon
(Saved: $11,500,000)
Released Janoris Jenkins
(Saved: $7,250,000)
Released Kareem Martin
(Saved: $3,183,332)
Released Jonathan Stewart
(Saved: $2,850,000)
Released Rhett Ellison
(Saved: $3,250,000)

POSITION COUNTS
QB:1DT:4RB:3DE:1WR:3OLB:1TE:2ILB:2C:1FS:1G:3SS:0LT:1CB:3RT:0LS:0FB:0K:0P:1T:1S:1LB:1Players:30

for a team that is committed to running the ball to only have 2 running backs on the roster.

Is Shurmer going to try and spread defenses out going forward?

Fix this fucking mess with one draft, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee, the Jerry Reese lovers were dead wrong. Admit it and move on.

In comment 14134638 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

The question - What do you do to mitigate your unfortunate circumstances - Do more of the same, and hope for different results ? The Run Game - Defenses are ALREADY "stacking" the box trying to stop Barkley. Why not go to a "jumbo" package - An extra lineman (not tight end) on the L.O.S. We've got three young RBs with fresh legs - Barkley, Gallman and Martin - to jam the ball down their throats. Run Defense - Haven't seen our defense doing too much stacking. Maybe we need to do some, too Pass Rush - Bettcher was the master blitz guru with the Card. I want to see a lot more.

Will not work. The only thing that will loosen the run game is lengthen the field by successfully completing passes down the field consistently. If I am a DC, I keep loading the box until you burn me enough that it matters.

With your point, grateful.




What I'm saying is that I want another 300 pounder on the line to give Eli more time to throw and Brakley from getting caught behind the L.O.S.

The more our RBs have success running the ball, the closer the "back seven " are forced to creep up. THAT opens up the deep zones (we have two excellent deep zone targets - OBJ & Engram and one good one in Shep)

It's called Tom Coughlin/Gilbride football. The reasons we don't have at least another Super Bowl trophy on the shelf is #1 Plax shot himself, Nick's legs turned to mush and Manningham left for the 49ers.

Offensive football is complimentary, but right after you build a good offensive line, you get yourself a dominating run game; THEN you attack with the dagger - deep zone passing game.

Right now, we've got three out of four - A dynamic RB, very good corps of receivers, even though he is near done, Eli can still throw the deep ball. It's just our O-line sucks. All I'm saying is help them, a little bit