I know, I know, I know. Believe me I know.
I would ask Eli to take a paycut. Sounds harsh, but this concession will allow the Giants to field a competitive team. Reduce his hit to $10M somehow. Have Tisch fund Eli's charity or something.
Cut Vernon.
Cut Harrison (Giants are DEEP here and cheap).
Use that savings to buy one of a ORG/ORT or a OC.
Draft OL/DE/OL/DE/OL/DE
Get that OL fixed ONCE for Eli.
We will have Beal coming back to add to the DBs.
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
We will have the best RB in the league.
Give Eli time to be clutch.
Give Betcher a bunch of young fast Edge rushers to rotate.
Let's go out in a blaze of glory.
Quote:
But we have something else we can find out right now. We give another QB a shot. We let them take all the reps in practice, we let them start many games and see if they improve or play better. If we look better soon or we start improving it will tell us everything. What will it mean if the entire team has more energy with someone else behind center? We need to find out as soon as possible.
Sure, this is an option. If you think KL is viable, ok let's do it. IMO, he's not the answer and I think the Giants would be even worse. But if the coaching staff feels he's better, then lets see it.
If last year were an anomaly, then I get it, but it's not. You can't resurrect the past, not matter how bad you want it. These guys don't remember Eli when he was good. None of them were there. He's not leading the locker room and he's not getting the job done on the field. It's not all his fault, but after years and years of losing, you have to be an extreme homer not to acknowledge that at least some of it may be on him. He deserves the credit he's gotten for the two SB wins, but in just the same way, he deserves some of the blame for where the team is today.
Great post.
the back seven needs almost a total rebuild. Jenkins and Apple don't seem able to hold the corner or cover and our once star safety is having real trouble. beyond that we have nothing. If we had a 'giant' defense we could win some games with barkley and eli and our other skill players.
Rebuild defense needs to be as urgent if not more so than the 'o' line rebuild and perhaps a qb of the future
Agree on both points, but I assume we'll be mathematically eliminated within a month.
It's pretty clear now Webb wasn't capable of it, and that's why Mcadoo went with Smith.
No matter how sexy and controversial replacing the QB will be, there is much to learn with Manning out.
The moment Manning is out, it's self-scouting for the rest of the season. That includes the other 10 players on the field, the play calling, the system etc.
...over 250 responses for a has-been QB.
That's the state of the the New York Football Giants and their frustrated fan base.
It's pretty clear now Webb wasn't capable of it, and that's why Mcadoo went with Smith.
No matter how sexy and controversial replacing the QB will be, there is much to learn with Manning out.
The moment Manning is out, it's self-scouting for the rest of the season. That includes the other 10 players on the field, the play calling, the system etc.
Well said. I don't see a downside in playing Lauletta. You can't go into next season without a sense of what Lauletta can do. This team has major deficits at the OL and edge rusher spots.
It's probably been said elsewhere on this board but Mara's loyalty to Eli may stem from bad memories of what happened to Simms.
Maybe a poor game on national television will convince Mara that he needs to let DG and Shurmur do what needs to be done with Eli.
Quote:
Maybe a poor game on national television will convince Mara that he needs to let DG and Shurmur do what needs to be done with Eli.
Last Thursday wasn't a poor game on national television?
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
Quote:
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
One just got cleared to practice, and the other hasn't exactly done much this year.
But why not go into the season with the two of them as our only veteran edge rushers? How could that plan possibly fail?
Not to mention cutting Snacks as well - to pay for OL. So in other words, let's dump all the resources into the OL, for an older QB who's just as likely to retire at the end of next season.
Terrible ideas, just awful all the way around.
Speaking of GEMS, this is a good one....Keeping OV as our Veteran Edge rusher?! How many games has he played since we've signed him?! When he was on the field, how many sacks has he had?! You've got a hard on to dump Manning, but lets give the most overpaid player on the team another year because our rookies will only have 1 season or less under their belts. And we all know how much experience comes into play when it comes to rushing the passer.......pure genius rationale
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
I dont want to turn that corner yet because there's no coming back. I get it for sure and I'll concede to the coaching staff, if they think he'll play better, absolutely do it. If they think he gives them a better chance to win, do it.
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
Our skill depth isn't awful.......we can't control the LOS which stalls the whole process.
But you're right......just getting into the huddle, calling the play, getting it lined up. That's experience during a REAL NFL game.
Everything after that, sure he's going to most likely struggle. Maybe make a few plays with his legs but that will only go so far.
They need to find out if he's a capable backup, at worst, for next season.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
I'm talking depth, not front end talent. We're talking any missed time from the starters meaning major snaps to Russel Shepard (de-facto starter already), Jawill Davis, Scott Simonson, and Gallman being the only back.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
Mara
Eli
Gettleman
Shurmur
But Really Quinn sits on top of all of them as the shadow puppet master. He is the Kaiser Soze of the whole operation.
Quote:
So for Shurmur, even if they are 1-10, he will try to win every game and play the best people he can to try and do that. So Lauletta will have to show him he's better than Eli for that to happen.
If he is 1-10 and keeps doing the same thing, we should fire him at season's end. At some point you have to plan for next year. It feels like we have no plan.
Hey we have a plan! My plan!
Quote:
This is very likely. I think we will win 5 games this year and have the #6 pick in the draft. Eli will have some ok games. Giants will stick with him and draft OT ot DE in the first round.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
I will not buy the Sunday Ticket next year if I watch this entire season, see no improvement and the plan is to start Eli again next year. Not doing it. That will not directly affect the Giants, I know. Last year was bad, but we could blame injuries. To me, this year is worse.
Join the club. That was me this year. I knew what was coming and most of the early season games were on tv here.
Quote:
In comment 14135715 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
I dont want to turn that corner yet because there's no coming back. I get it for sure and I'll concede to the coaching staff, if they think he'll play better, absolutely do it. If they think he gives them a better chance to win, do it.
Thanks amigo. Side note, I've been so obsessed with Manning being done, I've lost note of how much I've appreciated that 2005-2011 run. Truly remarkable 6 years for Coughlin and Manning. I hope Eli gets a shot to really destroy the Skins.
Quote:
So for Shurmur, even if they are 1-10, he will try to win every game and play the best people he can to try and do that. So Lauletta will have to show him he's better than Eli for that to happen.
If he is 1-10 and keeps doing the same thing, we should fire him at season's end. At some point you have to plan for next year. It feels like we have no plan.
Shurmur snd DG don’t need to try and lose. The players are taking care of that themselves.
They think things are going to get better, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
At least with battered wives there can be psychological or economic reasons why some feel they have to stay in an abusive relationship. So I at least understand that.
Other than sentimentality, I just don't get why fans want to keep Eli.
He hasn't consistently played at even an average level for YEARS!
What 38 yr old QB (by 2019) suddenly starts playing better after what would be (at minimum) at least two consecutive years of poor play?
And if the Giants like a QB in next year's draft and can get him...Great! But the QB choices for 2019 shouldn't be draft a QB or keep Eli.
There are a number of vet QBs that are simply a better option next year than Eli, at a much cheaper price.
Keep Eli through the end of this season, then thank him for all he's done and get a QB who can still play.
1. Eli is likely our QB to start the next season, even if we take a QB in the 1st round. He may only last a game or two, but he is likely still the QB next season on the roster at the very least.
2. You can't just make him take a pay cut. Be careful what you wish for. Any reduction in pay may have to involve a short extension.
3. Finally, there needs to be a veteran QB on the roster to help the rookie. If you cut Eli, the cost of his dead money PLUS the ridiculous amount of money it takes to sign a mediocre journeyman (see Sam Bradford), is MORE than leaving Eli's cap hit as is and keeping him as a mentor.
That's the deal. You can call me a homer, but that's the reality of the situation.
Or you can cut Eli use the money on a FA OL ... and let the OC and his asst coaches ... coach up the rookie.
A vet QB can be had for minimum ....
Trevor Siemian QB 27 MIN TBD $583,196 UFA -
Brett Hundley QB 26 SEA TBD $625,908 UFA -
Taylor Heinicke QB 26 CAR TBD $660,000 UFA -
Tom Savage QB 29 SF TBD $790,000 UFA -
Sean Mannion QB 27 LA TBD $812,724 UFA -
Brock Osweiler QB 28 MIA TBD 2 415 4 15 2 $880,000 UFA -
Brandon Weeden QB 35 HOU TBD $880,000 UFA -
David Fales QB 28 MIA TBD $880,000 UFA -
Joe Webb QB 32 HOU TBD 6 $915,000 UFA -
Geno Smith QB 28 NYG TBD 2 8 -3 $1,000,000 UFA -
Derek Anderson QB 36 BUF TBD $1,073,530 UFA -
Robert Griffin III QB 29 BAL TBD $1,100,000 UFA -
Matt Cassel QB 37 DET TBD 1 14 -1 1 $1,105,000 UFA -
Ryan Griffin QB 29 TB TBD $1,125,000 UFA -
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB 36 TB TBD 4 1,356 11 62 1 5 1 $3,300,000 UFA -
Matt Schaub QB 38 ATL TBD 2 20 1 $4,500,000 UFA -
Yep. The long and short of it.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
Ryan Fitzpatrick's first two games this year were better than any game Eli has played since 2015, at 1/7th the cap number. I am in no way suggesting he is a solution, but I would look at him as a cheap veteran presence on the team to go along with the 1st round pick/Lauletta.
I don't want to see him starting for this team. I want a rookie or Lauletta starting. But he would be a cheap, capable backup.
What to do with Eli - ( New Window )
Have to say, I know the Giants lead the universe in rushes for loss. But, how is Shurmur not trying to pound it away with Barkley on the ground. I thought the whole point was to build around a running game again. Mangini says Giants average the fewest rushing attempts in he league.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
We have 1 win, and are ranked 24th in the NFL in Offense and 27th in Points Scored.
Not even close to holding a candle to these lofty numbers??
Quote:
but it didnt happen.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
We have 1 win, and are ranked 24th in the NFL in Offense and 27th in Points Scored.
Not even close to holding a candle to these lofty numbers??
We would be dead last in every category and wouldnt look competitive imo.
Will Grier looking good
I see people who talk about getting rid of Eli and getting immediate results.
There are a lot of emotional posters who want the Giants to turn this around right away. I have news, thats not happening. There are too many things wrong with this team, and Eli isn't the worst of them. That's saying Eli is blameless. The Giants do have to move on from Eli.
But here is the thing, this team will suck the rest of this year, and they will suck in 2019. Get used to it. Get over the emotional aspects of it. Also remember the goal isn't to go 7-9, 8-8, or even 9-7. The goal is another trophy. There is no way this team is competing for the trophy in 2019. No way. With that in mind, what is the best way to get to the point of competing for it. What strategy give you the largest window, and thus your largest chance.
Getting a QB next year that finds a way to win 3 extra games doesn't really help. Those 3, 3, 4 games mean nothing in the bigger picture. If you have built a solid surrounding cast, getting your QB at that point allows you the opportunity to pay to keep the surrounding cast stronger for 6 years while you franchise QB is on his rookie contract, and assuming the first year of his 2nd contract is cost controlled. After that it gets harder because the QB cap hit goes up. Not impossible, just harder to keep a solid surround cast. So timing is a factor. Add to that the fact tha the QB class in 2020 is by all account far strong than 2019, it makes sense to suck in 2019 as well getting a top 5 pick in 2020.
I don't care if the Giants suck with or without Eli in 2019. Makes no difference to me. As long as the pieces are starting to fall into place.
I see people who talk about getting rid of Eli and getting immediate results.
There are a lot of emotional posters who want the Giants to turn this around right away. I have news, that's not happening. There are too many things wrong with this team, and Eli isn't the worst of them. That's NOT saying Eli is blameless. The Giants do have to move on from Eli.
But here is the thing, this team will suck the rest of this year, and they will suck in 2019. Get used to it. Get over the emotional aspects of it. Also remember the goal isn't to go 7-9, 8-8, or even 9-7. The goal is another trophy. There is no way this team is competing for the trophy in 2019. No way. With that in mind, what is the best way to get to the point of competing for it. What strategy gives you the largest window, and thus your largest chance.
Getting a QB next year that finds a way to win 3 extra games doesn't really help. Those 2, 3, 4 extra wins mean nothing in the bigger picture. Take next year to keep building out the team, and playing the new guys who will have growing pains. Assuming that the Giants have built a solid surrounding cast that is starting to come into their own by 2020, getting your QB at that point allows you the opportunity to pay to keep the surrounding cast stronger for 6 years while you franchise QB is on his rookie contract, That assumes that the first year of his 2nd contract is cost controlled. After that it gets harder because the QB cap hit goes up. Not impossible, just harder to keep a solid surrounding cast. So timing is a factor. Add to that the fact that the QB class in 2020 is by all accounts far strong than 2019, it makes sense to suck in 2019 ensuring a top 5 pick in 2020.
I don't care if the Giants suck with or without Eli in 2019. Makes no difference to me. As long as the pieces are starting to fall into place.
Wow, I shouldn't type when I am so sleepy... Many mistakes... Fixed above...