I know, I know, I know. Believe me I know.
I would ask Eli to take a paycut. Sounds harsh, but this concession will allow the Giants to field a competitive team. Reduce his hit to $10M somehow. Have Tisch fund Eli's charity or something.
Cut Vernon.
Cut Harrison (Giants are DEEP here and cheap).
Use that savings to buy one of a ORG/ORT or a OC.
Draft OL/DE/OL/DE/OL/DE
Get that OL fixed ONCE for Eli.
We will have Beal coming back to add to the DBs.
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
We will have the best RB in the league.
Give Eli time to be clutch.
Give Betcher a bunch of young fast Edge rushers to rotate.
Let's go out in a blaze of glory.
lol
but a veteran will be expensive thats any good. there is a chance Eli shows enough to stay starter next year.
LG :Hernandez
OC: Halapio
RG:Top FA ORG in FA
ORT: Top Available OT in Draft (1st Round Pick)
That would change Saquon's production as well
I personally hate it but Eli playing next year is not out of realm of outcomes.
Snacks should yield a decent return as his value will never be higher. His health will likely curtail any option of playing beyond the 2 years remaining on his contract. Get what you can and let him contribute on a winning team. He has earned it.
OLB: Bosa
DE:Mcintosh
DT:Tomlinson
DE:Hill
OLB:Carter
Draft Greg Little in Rd 2
Jonah Williams.
I personally hate it but Eli playing next year is not out of realm of outcomes.
Imaginable...yet awful.
OLB: Bosa
DE:Mcintosh
DT:Tomlinson
DE:Hill
OLB:Carter
Draft Greg Little in Rd 2
To get Bosa, we'll need the #1 pick (no worse than #3). I suspect after the dust settles of the season, we will be in the 6-10 range.
2. Complete cutting of cord.
I'm Eli's biggest fan, and probably defender, but at 38 and in the last year of his contract, those really are the only two options.
The organization has to look to its future. They got on big piece in SB, now it's time to get the other piece at QB.
2. Complete cutting of cord.
I'm Eli's biggest fan, and probably defender, but at 38 and in the last year of his contract, those really are the only two options.
The organization has to look to its future. They got on big piece in SB, now it's time to get the other piece at QB.
I was a draft a Qb guy but that ship has sailed. I don't see that QB depth in this draft increasing the risk that the Giants will take the wrong guy. The 2020 class looks much much stronger, I'd rather go for it this year and draft QB then.
Quote:
1. Pay cut and mentor a young QB
2. Complete cutting of cord.
I'm Eli's biggest fan, and probably defender, but at 38 and in the last year of his contract, those really are the only two options.
The organization has to look to its future. They got on big piece in SB, now it's time to get the other piece at QB.
I was a draft a Qb guy but that ship has sailed. I don't see that QB depth in this draft increasing the risk that the Giants will take the wrong guy. The 2020 class looks much much stronger, I'd rather go for it this year and draft QB then.
So who are the 2020 QBs........stacked up against the 2019 QBs??
The kid Herbert from Oregon looks to have everything - and more - than every single guy from 2018 IMO.
He's Josh Allen but more polished.
Yes, we did, DG could not fix years of Reese. Imagine if Flowers became a good player? How might they look? I think DG's strength is OL, one more year to give Eli a real one.
Plus the new QB they draft in 2020 will inherit a good OL.
Quote:
In comment 14135219 BillKo said:
Quote:
1. Pay cut and mentor a young QB
2. Complete cutting of cord.
I'm Eli's biggest fan, and probably defender, but at 38 and in the last year of his contract, those really are the only two options.
The organization has to look to its future. They got on big piece in SB, now it's time to get the other piece at QB.
I was a draft a Qb guy but that ship has sailed. I don't see that QB depth in this draft increasing the risk that the Giants will take the wrong guy. The 2020 class looks much much stronger, I'd rather go for it this year and draft QB then.
So who are the 2020 QBs........stacked up against the 2019 QBs??
The kid Herbert from Oregon looks to have everything - and more - than every single guy from 2018 IMO.
He's Josh Allen but more polished.
I like Herbert but we are comparing him to the 4th rated QB from last year, the 4th! Thats how deep last year was.
That would make the 3 years of 2017-2019 one colossal waste of time...
Honestly that was last year's rationale and it made sense then walking into a talent rich QB draft.
This year? I dont see the franchise QBs yet.
Quote:
In comment 14135224 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 14135219 BillKo said:
Quote:
1. Pay cut and mentor a young QB
2. Complete cutting of cord.
I'm Eli's biggest fan, and probably defender, but at 38 and in the last year of his contract, those really are the only two options.
The organization has to look to its future. They got on big piece in SB, now it's time to get the other piece at QB.
I was a draft a Qb guy but that ship has sailed. I don't see that QB depth in this draft increasing the risk that the Giants will take the wrong guy. The 2020 class looks much much stronger, I'd rather go for it this year and draft QB then.
So who are the 2020 QBs........stacked up against the 2019 QBs??
The kid Herbert from Oregon looks to have everything - and more - than every single guy from 2018 IMO.
He's Josh Allen but more polished.
I like Herbert but we are comparing him to the 4th rated QB from last year, the 4th! Thats how deep last year was.
Well, I'm actually saying he has the skill set of Allen, but not as raw. He's polished you can see it.
From that perspective, I have him actually higher than Allen.
He's got way more size than Mayfield, and think he looks better than Rosen or Darnold.
He signed Omameh to start. If OL is his strength, I'd hate to see his weakness.
I can only see that happening if they Giants accumulate 5-7 wins this year, and can't move up..........
QB is without question on their radar. Has to be.
Well, I'm actually saying he has the skill set of Allen, but not as raw. He's polished you can see it.
From that perspective, I have him actually higher than Allen.
He's got way more size than Mayfield, and think he looks better than Rosen or Darnold.
Ok, if you think he's that good I get it worth the risk. I admit I dont see it with Herbert but thats just me. Also what if they dont have the top pick? Trade up to get him? So many questions and added resources and no idea if they can actually land him.
Quote:
I think DG's strength is OL
He signed Omameh to start. If OL is his strength, I'd hate to see his weakness.
Yup, fair to say. But he hit on WH, so lets give him some credit there. WH is better than anyone Reese drafted EVER.
Ok, if you think he's that good I get it worth the risk. I admit I dont see it with Herbert but thats just me. Also what if they dont have the top pick? Trade up to get him? So many questions and added resources and no idea if they can actually land him.
It's October. Giants are 1-5. Last year they were 3-13. Our offense hasn't looked good in 4 years. And you want Eli back again next year? Waste another year of a top WR and RB?
Draft a QB. Cut ties with Eli.
We can step into that draft with a really good OL and the best RB in the draft.
Well that's certainly not true.
Quote:
Ok, if you think he's that good I get it worth the risk. I admit I dont see it with Herbert but thats just me. Also what if they dont have the top pick? Trade up to get him? So many questions and added resources and no idea if they can actually land him.
It's October. Giants are 1-5. Last year they were 3-13. Our offense hasn't looked good in 4 years. And you want Eli back again next year? Waste another year of a top WR and RB?
Draft a QB. Cut ties with Eli.
I think drafting the wrong QB is the worst move. And I dont see it this year.
I want a top 10 OL. If DG can deliver that, the new QB in 2020 will step into a great situation.
Quote:
WH is better than anyone Reese drafted EVER.
Well that's certainly not true.
Meant OL Reese drafted.
We can step into that draft with a really good OL and the best RB in the draft.
I just can't fathom how anyone can think this is a good idea. We are now looking at 3 straight years of regression and it's gotten to the point where he looks like one of the worst starters in the league. Now, I understand that the OL plays a role in this as well, but even if he was average, he wouldn't look this bad. He's been brutally bad and its now a 3 year trend. How can you really think this is a good idea???
Hard pass. He either retires or the Giants cut him. Keeping him would be incredibly stupid and the Giants would be the laughingstock of the league (again).
Quote:
leaving Eli in place has been the plan, but the plan is looking weaker and weaker.
I can only see that happening if they Giants accumulate 5-7 wins this year, and can't move up..........
QB is without question on their radar. Has to be.
QB will be on their radar, and they still might prefer Eli to start and get through another difficult season, accumulating high picks and cap space, make trades, etc.
I'm targeting 2020 to be a good team.
The Giants need a longterm solution at QB, C, RG, RT, WR depth, FS, Edge Rusher, Nickle Corner. And that's assuming Jenkins and Vernon show enough to keep their salary and Collins is retained.
Gettleman had a dynamite draft, it's difficult not to with the 2nd pick. He's probably going to get another prime position next year too.
But 2019 is going to be rough.
...this team will NO LONGER win with Eli at the helm.
He lost his swagger, his confidence and his gun-slinger mentality a while ago, and all his team mates know it.
This team needs a complete wash, re-do, start-over, re-build.
By definition, that means Eli is gone before the start of the 2019 season.
Any other scenario is just more of the same: no hope, no glory, no wins.
Quote:
but this year's QB crop is weak imo. 2020 QB draft looks rich.
We can step into that draft with a really good OL and the best RB in the draft.
I just can't fathom how anyone can think this is a good idea. We are now looking at 3 straight years of regression and it's gotten to the point where he looks like one of the worst starters in the league. Now, I understand that the OL plays a role in this as well, but even if he was average, he wouldn't look this bad. He's been brutally bad and its now a 3 year trend. How can you really think this is a good idea???
There's more than a handful of times this year when Eli did have time he missed simple pitch and catch throws. I love Eli, but he's done. There's no fixing the line, no adding more weapons, changing the offense. It's change the QB.
Lock
Finley
Jones
Its so much weaker than last year's draft. Drafting your biggest need in a weak draft, to me thats recipe for disaster.
Lock
Finley
Jones
Its so much weaker than last year's draft. Drafting your biggest need in a weak draft, to me thats recipe for disaster.
Its October, its ridiculous to try and judge these guys. Let the season unfold.
I think the Giants will make a huge mistake looking for the franchise guy this year.
Either that or they will trade multiple picks to acquire the draft rights to someone I dont see comparable to last year.
Lock
Finley
Jones
Its so much weaker than last year's draft. Drafting your biggest need in a weak draft, to me thats recipe for disaster.
2004 QB class
Eli
Rivers
Big Ben
2005 class was weak in comparison. But I'm sure 23 teams regret passing on Aaron Rodgers.
Lock
Finley
Jones
Its so much weaker than last year's draft. Drafting your biggest need in a weak draft, to me thats recipe for disaster.
The biggest recipe for disaster is having Eli on the 2019 Giants roster. He's out. Get used to the idea.
Reminds me of the people who don't want to buy a computer because a faster one will be released next year.
Quote:
Herbert
Lock
Finley
Jones
Its so much weaker than last year's draft. Drafting your biggest need in a weak draft, to me thats recipe for disaster.
2004 QB class
Eli
Rivers
Big Ben
2005 class was weak in comparison. But I'm sure 23 teams regret passing on Aaron Rodgers.
I mean sure they could hit on a miracle like that. I just dont want to gamble the next 5 years on it.
Quote:
I think DG's strength is OL
He signed Omameh to start. If OL is his strength, I'd hate to see his weakness.
Lol
1. Eli is likely our QB to start the next season, even if we take a QB in the 1st round. He may only last a game or two, but he is likely still the QB next season on the roster at the very least.
2. You can't just make him take a pay cut. Be careful what you wish for. Any reduction in pay may have to involve a short extension.
3. Finally, there needs to be a veteran QB on the roster to help the rookie. If you cut Eli, the cost of his dead money PLUS the ridiculous amount of money it takes to sign a mediocre journeyman (see Sam Bradford), is MORE than leaving Eli's cap hit as is and keeping him as a mentor.
That's the deal. You can call me a homer, but that's the reality of the situation.
One just got cleared to practice, and the other hasn't exactly done much this year.
But why not go into the season with the two of them as our only veteran edge rushers? How could that plan possibly fail?
Not to mention cutting Snacks as well - to pay for OL. So in other words, let's dump all the resources into the OL, for an older QB who's just as likely to retire at the end of next season.
Terrible ideas, just awful all the way around.
Reminds me of the people who don't want to buy a computer because a faster one will be released next year.
jcn, Im in agreement with you on moving on from Eli. But look at the landscape, do you really see the guy in 2019? The strength of this class is OL and ER. For me the dominos are set to fall for this strategy.
I mean sure they could hit on a miracle like that. I just dont want to gamble the next 5 years on it.
Isn't the draft essentially a gamble? We just cut a top 10 pick from a few years ago. Apple hasn't performed like a top 10 pick. Giants need a QB.
If they don't grade a QB at where they are picking I'll accept that.
Quote:
'don't draft a QB this year' variety. They always work the same way, too 'I don't see a QB without risk in this draft'.
Reminds me of the people who don't want to buy a computer because a faster one will be released next year.
jcn, Im in agreement with you on moving on from Eli. But look at the landscape, do you really see the guy in 2019? The strength of this class is OL and ER. For me the dominos are set to fall for this strategy.
"This strategy" is essentially building the current Cowboys offense. And with just about squat on the defensive side of the ball, as opposed to that team.
It's a terrible strategy. They need a QB. There's no telling at this point how much of the OL is on them, vs. Eli's immobility. If anything, maybe Gettleman wasn't as bad as he was at picking FA OL, and they just look much worse because Eli's cooked.
You can call me a non-homer...
You can call me a non-homer...
This
You can call me a non-homer...
Fact. He's gotta go.
I personally hate it but Eli playing next year is not out of realm of outcomes.
So you have us .500 the rest of the way??? LMFAO
You can call me a non-homer...
It's logistics and financials. Those have to be in line.
You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which ones gets filled first.
👎🏽
Agree... the best thing we can do is get a QB that can avoid the rush even a little bit. Even if we find two quality OLs to plug in to make Eli feel a little comfortable, we are an injury or two away from the OL to having the same shitty offense again. The position of QB has evolved.
Peronally I think we need to play balls out the rest of this season.
Go for it on 4th, fake punts, onside kicks. Make every team that plays us be on pins and needles. What was it Gene Hackman said in the Replacements?
"Listen up! Teams haven't been afraid of you, and they should be, because you have a powerful weapon working for you tonight: There is no tomorrow for you... and that makes you all VERY DANGEROUS PEOPLE!"
That's how I want this team to play the rest of the season.
From a business standpoint, it has to make sense logistically and financially.
The Giants need a veteran QB on the roster next year regardless of the future. See Sam Bradford and Josh Rosen. It will not make sense to cut Manning, take his dead money cap hit, AND sign a journeyman QB. They would just keep Manning over that option.
It could just be a transitional strategy as well.
It could just be a transitional strategy as well.
So long as Eli's on the bench with a visor and a clip board, I guess that's OK. But it's not really.
Quote:
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
One just got cleared to practice, and the other hasn't exactly done much this year.
But why not go into the season with the two of them as our only veteran edge rushers? How could that plan possibly fail?
Not to mention cutting Snacks as well - to pay for OL. So in other words, let's dump all the resources into the OL, for an older QB who's just as likely to retire at the end of next season.
Terrible ideas, just awful all the way around.
The OL will be there for the new guy, just remember that.
Quote:
In comment 14135250 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
Ok, if you think he's that good I get it worth the risk. I admit I dont see it with Herbert but thats just me. Also what if they dont have the top pick? Trade up to get him? So many questions and added resources and no idea if they can actually land him.
It's October. Giants are 1-5. Last year they were 3-13. Our offense hasn't looked good in 4 years. And you want Eli back again next year? Waste another year of a top WR and RB?
Draft a QB. Cut ties with Eli.
I think drafting the wrong QB is the worst move. And I dont see it this year.
I want a top 10 OL. If DG can deliver that, the new QB in 2020 will step into a great situation.
By your logic we go oline oline oline we fix that first we will win games and not be in any position to get one of these guys in 2020 without giving up the farm
#suckfortheduck
That plan has to be in place long before the draft, and they damn well better be sure about a QB and their position to get one if they do.
They have to get him out of here and move on. Eli will never take a pay cut, nor would I expect him to. My hope is that he just retires...but he may force the Giants hand.
For me that strategy was LAST year, with the #2 pick in a rich draft. I feel that one of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Jackson would be a franchise guy and we had access to all of them.
That plan has to be in place long before the draft, and they damn well better be sure about a QB and their position to get one if they do.
It's not like we're going to be better off with Eli - does it really make a difference?
Cutting a QB under contract without a succession plan is not good business.
That plan has to be in place long before the draft, and they damn well better be sure about a QB and their position to get one if they do.
They better be sure?? Whats the downside?
That plan has to be in place long before the draft, and they damn well better be sure about a QB and their position to get one if they do.
Before March 2019 is exactly when they're gonna do it.
There is, of course, one alternative. Giants management meets with Eli to tell him to retire gracefully (and we will honor you appropriately) or face being cut by Feb 28th.
2. Manning is under contract for next year.
3. The cap hit will be higher to cut Manning and sign a journeyman QB to the roster.
What's the likely scenario?
Eli cannot be the QB again next year, I'm sorry. Any plan that includes that is the wrong one and provides zero benefit.
The Giants WILL cut/trade/restructure Eli next year.
The Giants WILL draft a QB.
It's literally the same thing. Stop looking at what you want and need and start looking at what is likely.
And I'm fine with them putting Lauletta in this year. And I'm fine with them drafting a QB in the first round this year.
Same as I was last year.
It could just be a transitional strategy as well.
I could see that as well if they cut him or he retires Id like to see either a mcown although I can see him retire and go into coaching next season or someone like him that knows hes only here to help the rookie qb and play untill the kid is ready whether its week 1 or 10
2. Manning is under contract for next year.
3. The cap hit will be higher to cut Manning and sign a journeyman QB to the roster.
What's the likely scenario?
#3 is pure bullshit. Certainly not a fact, and in all probability just false.
Quote:
1. The Giants need a veteran QB on the roster next year.
2. Manning is under contract for next year.
3. The cap hit will be higher to cut Manning and sign a journeyman QB to the roster.
What's the likely scenario?
#3 is pure bullshit. Certainly not a fact, and in all probability just false.
Is it? What's Eli's cap hit if they cut him?
What did Sam Bradford cost this year? What did Case Keenum cost this year?
Add the two together.
I wanted a QB because I knew we needed to plan for life after Eli like... yesterday. But I was also on board with Barkley because I thought he was the best player in the draft and felt that if Gettleman didn't LOVE any of the QB's on the board - then, so be it.
But the team still sucks and will likely have another top 3-5 pick next April. Not drafting a QB and moving on at that point would be absolutely looney.
It's over.
2020 - Get that QB in a rich draft, even if you have to move up to do it.
Reminiscent of after they drafted Eli, being with a rookie QB in 2020, the salary free up will allow them to go hard in FA.
Back up and running in 2021
That plan has to be in place long before the draft, and they damn well better be sure about a QB and their position to get one if they do.
People wanting to move on from Eli at all costs would deserve such a scenario. Eli released. We have Kyle and Tanney, and then are out maneuvered on draft day. But according to some, that will be great to not have Eli on the roster. Yay!
2. Manning is under contract for next year.
3. The cap hit will be higher to cut Manning and sign a journeyman QB to the roster.
What's the likely scenario?
They do not need Eli sitting on the sidelines with a $23MM cap number. It took one half of football last year for the Texans to turn to Watson. Darnold started from game 1. Mayfield in week 3. This is not 1990. Young QBs start early all the time.
You really want a veteran presence? Go sign Ryan Fitzpatrick, who has a cap hit of $3MM this year. That would give the Giants 14 million dollars to play with to upgrade the rest of the roster.
2020 - Get that QB in a rich draft, even if you have to move up to do it.
Reminiscent of after they drafted Eli, being with a rookie QB in 2020, the salary free up will allow them to go hard in FA.
Back up and running in 2021
The only good thing about this plan is that we will once again pick top 3 in 2020.
I wanted a QB because I knew we needed to plan for life after Eli like... yesterday. But I was also on board with Barkley because I thought he was the best player in the draft and felt that if Gettleman didn't LOVE any of the QB's on the board - then, so be it.
But the team still sucks and will likely have another top 3-5 pick next April. Not drafting a QB and moving on at that point would be absolutely looney.
It's over.
Arc, in full agreement if the QB is there. But drafting the wrong QB is a bigger mistake.
I can't think of a single one.
People wanting to move on from Eli at all costs would deserve such a scenario. Eli released. We have Kyle and Tanney, and then are out maneuvered on draft day. But according to some, that will be great to not have Eli on the roster. Yay!
and if this happens...what's the problem?
Quote:
2019 - Build a good OL and take a run with ELi
2020 - Get that QB in a rich draft, even if you have to move up to do it.
Reminiscent of after they drafted Eli, being with a rookie QB in 2020, the salary free up will allow them to go hard in FA.
Back up and running in 2021
The only good thing about this plan is that we will once again pick top 3 in 2020.
I disagree with this, if the Giants have a good OL, they will be competitive.
2020 - Get that QB in a rich draft, even if you have to move up to do it.
Reminiscent of after they drafted Eli, being with a rookie QB in 2020, the salary free up will allow them to go hard in FA.
Back up and running in 2021
Take a run with Eli? Sure. Get Eli a motor scooter that will run.
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
Quote:
In comment 14135335 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
1. The Giants need a veteran QB on the roster next year.
2. Manning is under contract for next year.
3. The cap hit will be higher to cut Manning and sign a journeyman QB to the roster.
What's the likely scenario?
#3 is pure bullshit. Certainly not a fact, and in all probability just false.
Is it? What's Eli's cap hit if they cut him?
What did Sam Bradford cost this year? What did Case Keenum cost this year?
Add the two together.
The Giants save $17M by cutting Eli. Any number lower than $17m is a benefit.
You picked two miserable examples (as in, widely known to be awful decisions as soon as they were made) to support what you stated as fact.
Why didnt you pick Bridgewater? Foles? McCown? Fitzpatrick?
I wanted a QB because I knew we needed to plan for life after Eli like... yesterday.
I was locked in at drafting a QB and not because I did not like Barkley. My comments were that top franchise QBs are typically found in the top of the first round. Not that there are no busts there and not that you cant find a Russel Wilson or Tom Brady later... but history says you get the guy towards the top of the draft. We also never know when we would be back in that top position again.
Next, starting QBs last a long time and although they get injured, they rarely get an injury that ruins their effectiveness afterwards.
However, the RB position has a short shelf life. Nobody knows how long he will last or what injury is around the corner. Injuries to a RB could mean that he is no longer effective. Even losing a step changes everything. Demarco Murray was the best RB in the league and then almost overnight he was a non-factor. Just one example.
Finally, teams with a great RB can win some games but you are not going to be consistently successful without a top QB.
So, it is for these reasons why I preferred that we take our QB last year.
I can't think of a single one.
Agreed. He can't be. This plan requires some sort of cap cut.
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
So what's he making then?
So, it is for these reasons why I preferred that we take our QB last year.
Yes, last year was the year to make the move, but it didnt happen. This is not the year to do this though and to force it? Compounding the problem.
Quote:
In comment 14135351 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
2019 - Build a good OL and take a run with ELi
2020 - Get that QB in a rich draft, even if you have to move up to do it.
Reminiscent of after they drafted Eli, being with a rookie QB in 2020, the salary free up will allow them to go hard in FA.
Back up and running in 2021
The only good thing about this plan is that we will once again pick top 3 in 2020.
I disagree with this, if the Giants have a good OL, they will be competitive.
What exactly have you seen from Eli that would lead you to believe this? It's all hope and wishful thinking based on something you saw 4 years ago. It's not happening. Not only that, you can't just say..fix the OL and then it's fixed. Rookies may need time to develop. Rookies can bust. FA signings can not work out.
But that said, like last season, I'm looking strictly at the logistics and financials of the situation. I get accused of being emotional, but I'd argue the ones that are arguing to cut him just because "it's over" are the ones being emotional.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent. Well, however you want to prepare yourselves for this, the powers that be will still be in charge when the decisions are made for next season.
We'll see what happens.
The Giants save $17M by cutting Eli. Any number lower than $17m is a benefit.
You picked two miserable examples (as in, widely known to be awful decisions as soon as they were made) to support what you stated as fact.
Why didnt you pick Bridgewater? Foles? McCown? Fitzpatrick?
Yeah, sign me up for the following next year...
Draft QB
Sign a guy like the four you mention above.
Keep Lauletta
Move on from Eli
The only way I would deviate from this is if Lauletta gets significant time at the end of this season and shows that he has serious potential.
Quote:
In comment 14135357 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
So what's he making then?
It really is simple. $17M in cash earnings for 2019. It's not $18M, or $20M, and not $23M.
Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
Quote:
In comment 14135363 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14135357 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
So what's he making then?
It really is simple. $17M in cash earnings for 2019. It's not $18M, or $20M, and not $23M. Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
It says right there his cap hit next year is 23M.
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
Agreed. He can't be. This plan requires some sort of cap cut.
A cap cut will come in either 2 forms.
1. He agrees to a straight pay cut for 1 year.
2. He agrees to an extension reducing the cap hit in conjunction with his salary.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent.
And I think everybody that supported this thinking is shocked as to how badly it turned out.
i can play that too...
I don't care about cash earnings. I care about what he's preventing the Giants from doing with the rest of their roster.
Link - ( New Window )
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
To your credit, this is not a bad strategy. Where I diverge with Lauletta next year is I dont think he's any good at all and the culture of losing will increase.
With a good OL, I still think Eli can be competitive. I have to also extrapolate with a good OL Saquon will be dominant.
Quote:
In comment 14135369 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14135363 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14135357 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
So what's he making then?
It really is simple. $17M in cash earnings for 2019. It's not $18M, or $20M, and not $23M. Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
It says right there his cap hit next year is 23M.
And you know the difference between what he is paid and how his contract is accounted for against the cap. He is not making $23M next year.
Quote:
like I did last season.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent.
And I think everybody that supported this thinking is shocked as to how badly it turned out.
i can play that too...
What does it matter what I think or whether I am shocked? I'm not making the decisions. I'm a fan.
They aren't running the business as fans.
Crazy thing is, if Gano misses the 63 yarder, in the last three games Eli had one of the best statistical games of his career in the Texan win, would have had a vintage Eli fourth quarter comeback win in Carolina and then the Eagle loss. If Eli were to somehow light up the Falcons and get win, three of the last four games would be some of the best Eli has had in a long time.
Maybe the old guy can still play.
But that said, like last season, I'm looking strictly at the logistics and financials of the situation. I get accused of being emotional, but I'd argue the ones that are arguing to cut him just because "it's over" are the ones being emotional.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent. Well, however you want to prepare yourselves for this, the powers that be will still be in charge when the decisions are made for next season.
We'll see what happens.
You may not be doing it intentionally, but youre twisting again there are 2 ideas here: what one thinks they SHOULD do, and what one thinks they are GOING TO DO.
Nobody will argue with you that you were almost 100% dead-on-balls accurate about what they were going to do. You also seemed to think it was what they SHOULD do (correct me if wrong there).
Youre holding the fact that you were correct up against people who were adamant that they should do something different than they did.
Thing is the results are shit. So you may have read the tea leaves correctly, but you didnt really win the debate like you seem to think you did.
You may be reading those leaves correctly again about next year. I and many others will be even more adamant that its not the correct decision. We arent knocking you for thinking its likely. Were knocking you for thinking that it resembles anything like a good idea.
He cannot get out of the way.
Our OL is not good.
Eli is going to be crushed weekly.
Every week he is going to be harassed after games by reporters.
This story(Eli is bad) will be a national story until he retire/cut/traded.
His teammates will SO incredibly tired about answering questions about Eli.
OBJ is guaranteed 60 million+ Reporters are going to ask him over and over and over. They know he will crack, they know how to crack him. You thought we had drama last year? You ain't seen nothing yet.
I do not want to see him go out like this. The most loyal of you are eventually going to turn on him. For you and him, I would like to see him retire first. He has nothing left to prove, he is only going to get hurt.
Quote:
If they honestly don't think any of these QB's are worth drafting either, then they should start Kyle Lauletta.
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
To your credit, this is not a bad strategy. Where I diverge with Lauletta next year is I dont think he's any good at all and the culture of losing will increase.
With a good OL, I still think Eli can be competitive. I have to also extrapolate with a good OL Saquon will be dominant.
You might be 100% correct about Lauletta - but we won't know unless he plays.
I don't think we can give Eli the OL he needs as quickly as he needs it. Any plan that involves keeping Eli and trying to continue beefing up the OL is essentially swimming against a current because the more time passes, the better the OL needs to be. It's like racing against a clock we can't beat.
I'm not worried about the losing culture stuff because it's been there with Eli long enough now. There's really no difference.
Crazy thing is, if Gano misses the 63 yarder, in the last three games Eli had one of the best statistical games of his career in the Texan win, would have had a vintage Eli fourth quarter comeback win in Carolina and then the Eagle loss. If Eli were to somehow light up the Falcons and get win, three of the last four games would be some of the best Eli has had in a long time.
Maybe the old guy can still play.
I think you are correct.
-DG
Quote:
In comment 14135376 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If they honestly don't think any of these QB's are worth drafting either, then they should start Kyle Lauletta.
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
To your credit, this is not a bad strategy. Where I diverge with Lauletta next year is I dont think he's any good at all and the culture of losing will increase.
With a good OL, I still think Eli can be competitive. I have to also extrapolate with a good OL Saquon will be dominant.
You might be 100% correct about Lauletta - but we won't know unless he plays.
I don't think we can give Eli the OL he needs as quickly as he needs it. Any plan that involves keeping Eli and trying to continue beefing up the OL is essentially swimming against a current because the more time passes, the better the OL needs to be. It's like racing against a clock we can't beat.
I'm not worried about the losing culture stuff because it's been there with Eli long enough now. There's really no difference.
We should have an idea this year on whether or not Lauletta will play next year.
Quote:
In comment 14135375 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14135369 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14135363 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14135357 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What is the benefit to having Eli Manning on the roster making 23M dollars next year?
I can't think of a single one.
For one - he won't be making $23M next year.
So what's he making then?
It really is simple. $17M in cash earnings for 2019. It's not $18M, or $20M, and not $23M. Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
It says right there his cap hit next year is 23M.
And you know the difference between what he is paid and how his contract is accounted for against the cap. He is not making $23M next year.
I have no idea what you're trying to argue or why you always get so hung up on this -
Eli Manning's cap hit is 23M next year. It's literally right there.
That's the number that matters. Not his cash earnings.
I think it was obvious what I meant.
Quote:
In comment 14135385 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 14135376 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If they honestly don't think any of these QB's are worth drafting either, then they should start Kyle Lauletta.
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
To your credit, this is not a bad strategy. Where I diverge with Lauletta next year is I dont think he's any good at all and the culture of losing will increase.
With a good OL, I still think Eli can be competitive. I have to also extrapolate with a good OL Saquon will be dominant.
You might be 100% correct about Lauletta - but we won't know unless he plays.
I don't think we can give Eli the OL he needs as quickly as he needs it. Any plan that involves keeping Eli and trying to continue beefing up the OL is essentially swimming against a current because the more time passes, the better the OL needs to be. It's like racing against a clock we can't beat.
I'm not worried about the losing culture stuff because it's been there with Eli long enough now. There's really no difference.
We should have an idea this year on whether or not Lauletta will play next year.
We SHOULD...but as of now, he's still running with the scout team, so. Who the hell knows.
Let's look at whats best moving forward?
Drafting into a weak QB class?
Or drafting into the strength of it in OL and DE, making one more run with Eli and head into a stronger QB class in 2020?
Quote:
like I did last season. Plus, a lot can change. Eli could get injured for all I know and hang it up.
But that said, like last season, I'm looking strictly at the logistics and financials of the situation. I get accused of being emotional, but I'd argue the ones that are arguing to cut him just because "it's over" are the ones being emotional.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent. Well, however you want to prepare yourselves for this, the powers that be will still be in charge when the decisions are made for next season.
We'll see what happens.
You may not be doing it intentionally, but youre twisting again there are 2 ideas here: what one thinks they SHOULD do, and what one thinks they are GOING TO DO.
Nobody will argue with you that you were almost 100% dead-on-balls accurate about what they were going to do. You also seemed to think it was what they SHOULD do (correct me if wrong there).
Youre holding the fact that you were correct up against people who were adamant that they should do something different than they did.
Thing is the results are shit. So you may have read the tea leaves correctly, but you didnt really win the debate like you seem to think you did.
You may be reading those leaves correctly again about next year. I and many others will be even more adamant that its not the correct decision. We arent knocking you for thinking its likely. Were knocking you for thinking that it resembles anything like a good idea.
And you're leaving out the fact that last year I said I would be fine taking a QB in round one.
You're also leaving out that I advocated heavily for drafting Kyle Lauletta.
I'm getting painted as wanting to keep Eli on at all costs as some sort of apologist or thinking he was going to play another decade. I never said that last year, and said I would support the franchise if they took a QB round one. Here's an actual post from last year of mine from November.
Britt in VA : 11/26/2017 8:17 pm : link
Here's how it's going to go.
Eli's replacement is drafted in Round 1 this year IF, and this is a big IF, they are in position to draft somebody they covet.
Davis Webb and new Quarterback duel it out for #2 in camp.
Eli starts the season, and depending on how it goes, he continues to play if they're winning or contributing.
One of two things happen, the Giants have a successful season which results in Eli starting the following season in his final year in his deal and whatever happens happens? Or they struggle and the new coach decides mid season that it's time to make the transition and they do it, ala Warner to Eli.
I know it's hard for people to wrap their heads around, but here's what's NOT going to happen:
Davis Webb will not start any game this season. His best case scenario is to be elevated to number 2 and come in the 2nd half of games to get some time.
Eli will not be cut or traded in the offseason.
Eli will not be a pay cut. I could see him restructuring if he works out an agreement that he will be allowed to play out his contract and retire gracefully, but who knows....
That's the same level of reasoning I'm posting with now.
Let's look at whats best moving forward?
Drafting into a weak QB class?
Or drafting into the strength of it in OL and DE, making one more run with Eli and head into a stronger QB class in 2020?
Jim, the problem is that the "one more run" mentality is how we got here in the first place.
We'd be basically quadrupling down on the same mistake we've already made.
Quote:
We had that golden opportunity and drafted Saquon. Saquon is pretty darn good.
Let's look at whats best moving forward?
Drafting into a weak QB class?
Or drafting into the strength of it in OL and DE, making one more run with Eli and head into a stronger QB class in 2020?
Jim, the problem is that the "one more run" mentality is how we got here in the first place.
We'd be basically quadrupling down on the same mistake we've already made.
I hear you man. I just think forcing a QB here is quintippling the mistake. I was all in on moving on from Eli last year. I just dont see the quality this year.
Paying any QB 10-20M to be a stop gap option is a mistake regardless of the QB. Eli, through no fault of his own, brings baggage and outside attention that this team doesn't need if they want to move forward as a franchise.
He's due to make $22 million next year, barring a restructure.
Cutting him would result in a dead cap hit of 12.5 million.
They're not just going to throw a rookie out there, or Davis Webb, week 1. So they're going to need a veteran QB on the roster, agreed? Look around the league.... Look at the QB's making around 10 million per year (the difference between Manning's dead cap hit and actual cap hit).
Mike Glennon, Chicago, $14 million
Jay Cutler, Miami, $10 million
Tyrod Taylor, Buffalo, $9.7 million
Jameis Winston, Tampa Bay, $6.9 million
Marcus Mariota, Tennessee, $6.6 million
Blake Bortles, Jacksonville, $6.57 million
Josh McCown, N.Y. Jets, $6.5 million
So what's a better value to you to start next year?
Eli Manning at 22 million?
Or one of the above guys as 12.5 million (dead money) plus their salary?
Either way, you're going to have about 20 million in cap space allotted to the QB position.
It's a no brainer.
Paying any QB 10-20M to be a stop gap option is a mistake regardless of the QB. Eli, through no fault of his own, brings baggage and outside attention that this team doesn't need if they want to move forward as a franchise.
Aces, if they can change his CAP hit to 10M with no further penalty, he is a great value then. Eli at 10M with a good OL and a dominant Barkley will be worth watching. Then go get that QB in 2020 like the Eagles did with Wentz.
You absolutely fucking nailed it as to what theyd do.
Doesnt make it a good choice. Results to this point would say it wasnt.
Doesnt make holding on to Eli past 3/1/19 a remotely good suggestion.
Quote:
In comment 14135400 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I hear you man. I just think forcing a QB here is quintippling the mistake. I was all in on moving on from Eli last year. I just dont see the quality this year.
I get what you are saying, but none of us know how the scouts feel about the QBs coming out this year. I was one of the posters arguing we had to take a QB last year because the class this year sucks, but now we are hearing that Herbert could be as good or better than last years prospects. If they do not have conviction, fine, then go OL/ER, but get Eli out of here and start Lauletta. They cannot continue down this path any longer.
Is no one going to mention that the poster is suggesting straight up salary cap fraud? You do realize that this would result in us losing draft picks, right?
And that doesn't even address how stupid the rest of the post was
You absolutely fucking nailed it as to what theyd do.
Doesnt make it a good choice. Results to this point would say it wasnt.
Doesnt make holding on to Eli past 3/1/19 a remotely good suggestion.
All I'm saying is that I think this year is like last year, and I think their business decision will be the exact same as last year.
It has nothing to do with what I think they SHOULD do. It's what I think will happen based on the information available.
If we're deadset on a "veteran", even if Lauletta is technically a veteran next year, aim lower than Eli at a more efficient cap number. There are bottom of the barrel guys that can get their ass kicked at 2-3M/yr if we're just looking to buy a few weeks for a rookie.
Quote:
Were in circles here. Youre posting evidence of what Ive already absolutely afforded you.
You absolutely fucking nailed it as to what theyd do.
Doesnt make it a good choice. Results to this point would say it wasnt.
Doesnt make holding on to Eli past 3/1/19 a remotely good suggestion.
All I'm saying is that I think this year is like last year, and I think their business decision will be the exact same as last year.
It has nothing to do with what I think they SHOULD do. It's what I think will happen based on the information available.
Fair enough. Your recent record on that front is good.
You should understand - in the absence of you sharing what you think they SHOULD do, posters here are naturally going to conflate your predictions to be your recommendations.
If we're deadset on a "veteran", even if Lauletta is technically a veteran next year, aim lower than Eli at a more efficient cap number. There are bottom of the barrel guys that can get their ass kicked at 2-3M/yr if we're just looking to buy a few weeks for a rookie.
Aces - yup, if he doesn't it doesn't work. Then bye bye.
But I want to win next year.
Why would Eli agree to a pay cut? It is not going to happen.
As long as you know that likely they would be sacrificing 2019, are fans willing to go through another awful season with Eli at QB? I know I'm not and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Alternatively, they may squeak out a 6 win season and put themselves out of a draft position for an elite QB in 2020. That's a worst case scenario.
I'd rather go 3-13 with Lauletta then go yet another year of mediocre to terrible offensive football with Eli.
Quote:
First, Eli would have to agree to it and I don't recall any Manning leaving money on the table. Second, I think 10M is too much for a stop gap that is unlikely to see the bye week. I understand teams do it but teams do a lot of stupid shit.
If we're deadset on a "veteran", even if Lauletta is technically a veteran next year, aim lower than Eli at a more efficient cap number. There are bottom of the barrel guys that can get their ass kicked at 2-3M/yr if we're just looking to buy a few weeks for a rookie.
Aces - yup, if he doesn't it doesn't work. Then bye bye.
But I want to win next year.
Eli isn't that guy anymore. Even if I'm wrong and he still has some magic, we're definitely not close enough to tap into it in 2019.
Quote:
In this plan Eli is lowering his cap hit and becomes a great value. Teams are paying Sam Bradford and Mckown 20M - 15M. IF Eli agrees (who knows) then him at 10M allows for a large ticket FA OL acquisition.
Why would Eli agree to a pay cut? It is not going to happen.
Yes, agreed this is the fly in the ointment. If he wants any shot at winning, this is it. If not, I roll with arc's plan above.
His dead money is $6m
This leaves the Giants with a $17m cap savings
This is the first year of the contract that they are in the positive and can just cut him.
I'm typing like Bluesbreaker
Anyway the team needs to continue
takins it's medicine
and get out from these bad contracts
Eli, Vernon, Jenkins and Snacks
I love Eli but he needs to retire
Quote:
Were in circles here. Youre posting evidence of what Ive already absolutely afforded you.
You absolutely fucking nailed it as to what theyd do.
Doesnt make it a good choice. Results to this point would say it wasnt.
Doesnt make holding on to Eli past 3/1/19 a remotely good suggestion.
All I'm saying is that I think this year is like last year, and I think their business decision will be the exact same as last year.
It has nothing to do with what I think they SHOULD do. It's what I think will happen based on the information available.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
Haha Fiddy, this really stems from my POV that this year is not the year to draft a QB and compound the bad. So what to do from there?
Quote:
In comment 14135418 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Were in circles here. Youre posting evidence of what Ive already absolutely afforded you.
You absolutely fucking nailed it as to what theyd do.
Doesnt make it a good choice. Results to this point would say it wasnt.
Doesnt make holding on to Eli past 3/1/19 a remotely good suggestion.
All I'm saying is that I think this year is like last year, and I think their business decision will be the exact same as last year.
It has nothing to do with what I think they SHOULD do. It's what I think will happen based on the information available.
Fair enough. Your recent record on that front is good.
You should understand - in the absence of you sharing what you think they SHOULD do, posters here are naturally going to conflate your predictions to be your recommendations.
Should do is subjective. I try to see merit in what they will or did do, and try to look at it from both sides in order to stay hopeful. For instance, I could see the thought process of sticking with Eli last year and drafting Saquon. I could also, as illustrated by my posting, see the thought process of drafting his replacement while we were sitting at 2 and beginning that transition.
Ultimately, I want the Giants to be successful. I think it's apparent, at least to me now, that this is a bigger rebuild than I anticipated last year, and we are further away. I just want them to win. I think regardless of whether it was Saquon right now, or Darnold right now, the results of this season were probably going to be similar. My eyes are open to that now. The roster was dreadful. We are further away than I thought.
However, Barkley is looking legit and worthy of the 2nd round pick. I'm glad we hit on that and look forward to the future with him, regardless of who the QB is.
2. If you step back and really look at your plan, it is a win now plan. If we dont win, then we just delayed our true rebuild and possibly could be sitting without a franchise QB after Eli retires.
Like it matters to have all the fallbacks listed out for some reason...
But I want to win next year.
1. How are we winning next year with Eli?
2. If we win, how are we drafting Tua in that years draft?
This is fair. Its premature and the hype for QBs will no doubt get louder as the draft approaches. Out of the top guys, Herbert, Lock, Stidham and Grier, all look like 2nd tier players outside of Herbert.
Herbert as much as I like his physical gifts, something about him doesnt smell right yet. But its early for sure.
Like it matters to have all the fallbacks listed out for some reason...
WTF?
I have said with absolute conviction THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. THIS IS WHAT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
It's not about fallbacks, it's about trying to remain optimistic and not be miserable.
For instance, many chose to be miserable throughout the entire offseason because we passed on Darnold. I chose to look at the optimistic side.
Now we're all miserable. But at last being optimistic kept me going through the offseason.
I will be optimistic again next year, as well, and try to see the good in what they do.
Because if not, what's the point? Sports are supposed to be entertaining.
2. If you step back and really look at your plan, it is a win now plan. If we dont win, then we just delayed our true rebuild and possibly could be sitting without a franchise QB after Eli retires.
Ok, Snacks can stay LOL. I think Tomlinson can replace him though but ok.
Yes its Win Now! However if you buiy in with me, its trying to create a succession plan for quickly winning. Build that OL for the next QB. And pick that QB in a stacked QB class, tahts my vision.
Like it matters to have all the fallbacks listed out for some reason...
What conviction do you post with other than one hitter quitters and snide remarks?
Restructure? Yes. Trade? Maybe. Cut outright? No.
Quote:
But I want to win next year.
1. How are we winning next year with Eli?
2. If we win, how are we drafting Tua in that years draft?
Fair questions. I think if DG fixes the OL with a top pick and a marquee FA, Eli can make us competitive. Think about Saquon with a good OL, they can do it!
When the 2020 draft rolls around then its time to ante up. Trade picks to get your man. It worked with Eli but we can get the right guy. And that guy will have an OL!
Yes its Win Now! However if you buy in with me, its trying to create a succession plan for quickly winning. Build that OL for the next QB. And pick that QB in a stacked QB class, tahts my vision.
It is kicking the can down the road. Delaying the inevitable
Quote:
Yes its Win Now! However if you buy in with me, its trying to create a succession plan for quickly winning. Build that OL for the next QB. And pick that QB in a stacked QB class, tahts my vision.
It is kicking the can down the road. Delaying the inevitable
I see it more as dont draft the wrong guy, draft the right guy and win in the meantime.
Quote:
like I did last season. Plus, a lot can change. Eli could get injured for all I know and hang it up.
But that said, like last season, I'm looking strictly at the logistics and financials of the situation. I get accused of being emotional, but I'd argue the ones that are arguing to cut him just because "it's over" are the ones being emotional.
You all got shocked when none of it came to fruition, and then it switched to the powers that be being incompetent. Well, however you want to prepare yourselves for this, the powers that be will still be in charge when the decisions are made for next season.
We'll see what happens.
You may not be doing it intentionally, but youre twisting again there are 2 ideas here: what one thinks they SHOULD do, and what one thinks they are GOING TO DO.
Nobody will argue with you that you were almost 100% dead-on-balls accurate about what they were going to do. You also seemed to think it was what they SHOULD do (correct me if wrong there).
Youre holding the fact that you were correct up against people who were adamant that they should do something different than they did.
Thing is the results are shit. So you may have read the tea leaves correctly, but you didnt really win the debate like you seem to think you did.
You may be reading those leaves correctly again about next year. I and many others will be even more adamant that its not the correct decision. We arent knocking you for thinking its likely. Were knocking you for thinking that it resembles anything like a good idea.
WTF was that??
Starting Lauletta next year opens up salary space to improve other areas of the team.
if Lauletta is absolutely awful, we go all in on Tagovailoa in 2020.
If he plays well, we keep going with Lauletta.
There is literally no benefit to continue paying Eli a large chunk of our cap dollars when we're getting below average production.
Im really warming up to this idea. Keeping Eli next year is just bad business, makes no sense cap wise. Let Lauletta play & if it doesnt work, we draft a QB in 2020.
Quote:
this season. He looked putrid in the Eagle loss and the team just keeps on losing and he is QB1.
Crazy thing is, if Gano misses the 63 yarder, in the last three games Eli had one of the best statistical games of his career in the Texan win, would have had a vintage Eli fourth quarter comeback win in Carolina and then the Eagle loss. If Eli were to somehow light up the Falcons and get win, three of the last four games would be some of the best Eli has had in a long time.
Maybe the old guy can still play.
I think you are correct.
-DG
Lies.
Damn lies.
And stats.
We know you live in Forest Hills, Jim.
Quote:
Without me being involved
We know you live in Forest Hills, Jim.
Shit... busted.
I truly believe a change at QB would yield immediate results and I am ready to start that process now.
we have other issues to fix, for sure... and it will take a season or 2 more to get where we need to be (assuming we have the right guys at the helm), but in short, NO, I do not want another season, let alone another game with Eli at the helm.
Love what that guy did for us... will go down as one of my all time favorite Giants... believe he is a HOFer... but it is past being over for him on this team and he is actually hurting the rest of the team with his slow, poor, inconsistent play.
Quote:
in your opinion otherwise i kind of feel that you're just posting not to be wrong.
Like it matters to have all the fallbacks listed out for some reason...
What conviction do you post with other than one hitter quitters and snide remarks?
Are you f-ing kidding me...i typically put it right out there what I would do without mincing words. Just because we don't see eye to eye on Eli's value don't go down this path...
Yikes.
I truly believe a change at QB would yield immediate results and I am ready to start that process now.
we have other issues to fix, for sure... and it will take a season or 2 more to get where we need to be (assuming we have the right guys at the helm), but in short, NO, I do not want another season, let alone another game with Eli at the helm.
Love what that guy did for us... will go down as one of my all time favorite Giants... believe he is a HOFer... but it is past being over for him on this team and he is actually hurting the rest of the team with his slow, poor, inconsistent play.
LG, if they draft the wrong guy, Giants are screwed for a much longer time. This is a weak year to find the guy. If they have the top pick and HErbert wins the Rose Bowl in a clutch fashion and enters the draft and is a consensus #1 guy, ok. Draft him and we move on, cut Eli. We will know all of this by MArch. Lots of ifs there though.
Quote:
That you had the balls to post this given the mood around here has increased my respect for you exponentially.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
Haha Fiddy, this really stems from my POV that this year is not the year to draft a QB and compound the bad. So what to do from there?
Jim, could you acknowledge that if we are picking 1st overall, it really doesn't matter how good the QB class is in 2019, as long as there is ONE championship, franchise caliber QB in the class? We only would draft one guy anyway. Likewise, even though 2020's class is supposed to be a good one, the "class" would not help us at all...we'd still need to draft the right ONE guy within that class.
There's too much time left to determine how this class shakes out. I've liked Ryan Finley but I acknowledge that Herbert is probably worthy of the #1 overall pick as it stands today. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I'm also not 100% sold on Tua in 2020, either. There's no doubt he's a terrific college QB. But there will be as many as 14 teams looking for a QB in next year's draft. There is very little competition in this year's draft, particularly where we are expected to draft (likely top 3). Who knows where we'd be drafting next year? 12? 17? 6? In any of those spots, we could be left out of the elite prospects at the position.
The class doesn't matter as long as the ONE ELITE QB is available to us where we pick.
But there are potential FA's or even a young guy on the team right now (Lauletta) who may be able to replicate what Case Keenum does, which is better than what we are getting at that position now.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No more band aids.
Quote:
In comment 14135445 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
That you had the balls to post this given the mood around here has increased my respect for you exponentially.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
Haha Fiddy, this really stems from my POV that this year is not the year to draft a QB and compound the bad. So what to do from there?
Jim, could you acknowledge that if we are picking 1st overall, it really doesn't matter how good the QB class is in 2019, as long as there is ONE championship, franchise caliber QB in the class? We only would draft one guy anyway. Likewise, even though 2020's class is supposed to be a good one, the "class" would not help us at all...we'd still need to draft the right ONE guy within that class.
There's too much time left to determine how this class shakes out. I've liked Ryan Finley but I acknowledge that Herbert is probably worthy of the #1 overall pick as it stands today. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I'm also not 100% sold on Tua in 2020, either. There's no doubt he's a terrific college QB. But there will be as many as 14 teams looking for a QB in next year's draft. There is very little competition in this year's draft, particularly where we are expected to draft (likely top 3). Who knows where we'd be drafting next year? 12? 17? 6? In any of those spots, we could be left out of the elite prospects at the position.
The class doesn't matter as long as the ONE ELITE QB is available to us where we pick.
I'm with you 100%. But for me its about playing the odds. Thats why I think last year was the year, odds are one or two of those guys will be really good.
If they have the top pick and Herbert is consensus, Im all for it. Even though Im not sure of the kid, but Im just a fan.
2020 will have alot of talent and the Giants will have to be super aggressive to get their guy. Eagles did it. Jets did it. But thats the year to do it, when the talent is there.
The idea of Grier/Lock/Finley at QB doesn't excite me in the least.
Not suggesting we should get Keenum in FA.
But there are potential FA's or even a young guy on the team right now (Lauletta) who may be able to replicate what Case Keenum does, which is better than what we are getting at that position now.
I dont see any FAs better than Eli if Eli cuts his cap hit to 10M.
I think KL is just a guy, imo. Not a NFL starter. Thats just me though.
Quote:
I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No. No one thinks he can. Where is the evidence that he can? He turns 38 in a couple of months.
Mind-boggling stuff.
Quote:
In comment 14135540 Keith said:
Quote:
I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No. No one thinks he can. Where is the evidence that he can? He turns 38 in a couple of months.
Mind-boggling stuff.
Ok Dave, gotcha. I disagree with this, but such is life.
Quote:
I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Might seem weird coming from me because many know I am not especially sentimental about Manning, but it's so sad seeing him getting beat like a bag out there during this transition.
A younger, more mobile QB isn't going to magically make more plays, solve the o-line issues, or maybe not even be better, but would have a better chance to not get his ass batted like a pinata.
I can't believe this exit is what some of the stronger supporters of him on this board had in mind.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Now this is all fair Keith, I get it. Here's why I think it can still work.
They drafted the best RB in the league. He is this successful without an OL. Let DG do what he's good at, drafting OL.
I think he still has enough arm (especially comparing to Lauletta's) and I think he has the mental resolve to come back. Thats Eli's strength, his mind. Get him an OL that will give him time. Get him to 3rd and 4, he will deliver.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
Quote:
my point is, you think Eli can play behind a good OLine.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
And by the time the Giants have a good OLine, Eli might be 40+ years old..
Quote:
100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Now this is all fair Keith, I get it. Here's why I think it can still work.
They drafted the best RB in the league. He is this successful without an OL. Let DG do what he's good at, drafting OL.
I think he still has enough arm (especially comparing to Lauletta's) and I think he has the mental resolve to come back. Thats Eli's strength, his mind. Get him an OL that will give him time. Get him to 3rd and 4, he will deliver.
Yes, good players will make great plays regardless of whats around him. Like Barkley. Why can't Eli? Your suggesting that he needs everyone around him to be great for him to be capable. What does that tell you? There are a lot of great QB's out there and I assure you that most cant even name their OL. The Pats go through these guys like nothing and yet they never miss a beat. Great players make great plays. Great players also make those around him better. Eli does not at this point in his career. He used to.
I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think we can just agree to disagree on this one.
Tua is the real deal. He does almost everything well.
Obviously he can still improve and learn - but he is very, very legit. He's going to be a star if he stays healthy. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Yes, good players will make great plays regardless of whats around him. Like Barkley. Why can't Eli? Your suggesting that he needs everyone around him to be great for him to be capable. What does that tell you? There are a lot of great QB's out there and I assure you that most cant even name their OL. The Pats go through these guys like nothing and yet they never miss a beat. Great players make great plays. Great players also make those around him better. Eli does not at this point in his career. He used to.
I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think we can just agree to disagree on this one.
All good man, we all want the Giants to win. Im trying to have my cake and eat it too. I dont think Eli needs perfection but I do think he needs a good run game and solid protection. And this OL will ne here for the next guy leading to quicker success for him as well. Want to win now and then win again lol.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Good point. I dont want him mentoring anyone. The new guy will slide into the saddle in 2020. Eli will be someplace new at that point.
Might seem weird coming from me because many know I am not especially sentimental about Manning, but it's so sad seeing him getting beat like a bag out there during this transition.
A younger, more mobile QB isn't going to magically make more plays, solve the o-line issues, or maybe not even be better, but would have a better chance to not get his ass batted like a pinata.
I can't believe this exit is what some of the stronger supporters of him on this board had in mind.
This is an outstanding post.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Definitely the best way to go. Nevermind trying to win with him again (holy shit), it would be best served for the next QB to have an Eli-free environment. Especially if "Giants fans" are going to throw another temper tantrum the next time he gets benched like a bunch of children.
Quote:
Very good chance Manning is on the roster for 2019 and very good chance the team and o-line are not a lot better.
christian, I think DG drafting WH shows he can find the talent. He missed on Norwell and had to settle for Solder. But that does give me hope he can find more OL stalwarts this year.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
I get it. I just imagine the OL without Solder. Eli might be dead.
Quote:
my point is, you think Eli can play behind a good OLine.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
Quote:
and Hawkins both have a ton to demonstrate in terms of projection to the NFL. Big arms and played big in a few big moments, but ...
Tua is the real deal. He does almost everything well.
Obviously he can still improve and learn - but he is very, very legit. He's going to be a star if he stays healthy. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
Oof, have to wait and see, he's got a ton to demonstrate that it will translate to the NFL. He's behind the OK QB for that designation.
But we have something else we can find out right now. We give another QB a shot. We let them take all the reps in practice, we let them start many games and see if they improve or play better. If we look better soon or we start improving it will tell us everything. What will it mean if the entire team has more energy with someone else behind center? We need to find out as soon as possible.
Sure, this is an option. If you think KL is viable, ok let's do it. IMO, he's not the answer and I think the Giants would be even worse. But if the coaching staff feels he's better, then lets see it.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
and you are 100% spot on. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand for some. I don't care what Case Keenum or Sam Bradford make. It makes zero sense for Eli to be on the Giants next year at that cap number. Let him go and use the savings to pursue top free agents to fill other gaping holes on the roster. He will not take a pay cut. Period.
I also want no part of Eli in a mentor role. He does not want to do it, and it would just be a weekly circus. I did not want to see Eli's career end like this, but it is where we are. Watching him take a beating every week, getting booed and listening to E-A-G-L-E-S and Who dat chants at Metlife sucks. They can't go a third year in a row like this. Move on.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
Totally agree with this. If Eli won't take a paycut, its good bye.
Quote:
Like I said - there's no viable argument for Eli being on the team next year at his current salary.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
and you are 100% spot on. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand for some. I don't care what Case Keenum or Sam Bradford make. It makes zero sense for Eli to be on the Giants next year at that cap number. Let him go and use the savings to pursue top free agents to fill other gaping holes on the roster. He will not take a pay cut. Period.
I also want no part of Eli in a mentor role. He does not want to do it, and it would just be a weekly circus. I did not want to see Eli's career end like this, but it is where we are. Watching him take a beating every week, getting booed and listening to E-A-G-L-E-S and Who dat chants at Metlife sucks. They can't go a third year in a row like this. Move on.
+1
Eli is toast in this offense, he needs a big physical X receiver and/or a two way TO more than a decent oline, and they're no where in sight.
If last year were an anomaly, then I get it, but it's not. You can't resurrect the past, not matter how bad you want it. These guys don't remember Eli when he was good. None of them were there. He's not leading the locker room and he's not getting the job done on the field. It's not all his fault, but after years and years of losing, you have to be an extreme homer not to acknowledge that at least some of it may be on him. He deserves the credit he's gotten for the two SB wins, but in just the same way, he deserves some of the blame for where the team is today.
It's incredible. Arizona looked as bad as us, but at least they're changing things up. We're maintaining course with the S.S. Mcadoo 2.0.
Quote:
But we have something else we can find out right now. We give another QB a shot. We let them take all the reps in practice, we let them start many games and see if they improve or play better. If we look better soon or we start improving it will tell us everything. What will it mean if the entire team has more energy with someone else behind center? We need to find out as soon as possible.
Sure, this is an option. If you think KL is viable, ok let's do it. IMO, he's not the answer and I think the Giants would be even worse. But if the coaching staff feels he's better, then lets see it.
If last year were an anomaly, then I get it, but it's not. You can't resurrect the past, not matter how bad you want it. These guys don't remember Eli when he was good. None of them were there. He's not leading the locker room and he's not getting the job done on the field. It's not all his fault, but after years and years of losing, you have to be an extreme homer not to acknowledge that at least some of it may be on him. He deserves the credit he's gotten for the two SB wins, but in just the same way, he deserves some of the blame for where the team is today.
Great post.
the back seven needs almost a total rebuild. Jenkins and Apple don't seem able to hold the corner or cover and our once star safety is having real trouble. beyond that we have nothing. If we had a 'giant' defense we could win some games with barkley and eli and our other skill players.
Rebuild defense needs to be as urgent if not more so than the 'o' line rebuild and perhaps a qb of the future
Agree on both points, but I assume we'll be mathematically eliminated within a month.
It's pretty clear now Webb wasn't capable of it, and that's why Mcadoo went with Smith.
No matter how sexy and controversial replacing the QB will be, there is much to learn with Manning out.
The moment Manning is out, it's self-scouting for the rest of the season. That includes the other 10 players on the field, the play calling, the system etc.
...over 250 responses for a has-been QB.
That's the state of the the New York Football Giants and their frustrated fan base.
It's pretty clear now Webb wasn't capable of it, and that's why Mcadoo went with Smith.
No matter how sexy and controversial replacing the QB will be, there is much to learn with Manning out.
The moment Manning is out, it's self-scouting for the rest of the season. That includes the other 10 players on the field, the play calling, the system etc.
Well said. I don't see a downside in playing Lauletta. You can't go into next season without a sense of what Lauletta can do. This team has major deficits at the OL and edge rusher spots.
It's probably been said elsewhere on this board but Mara's loyalty to Eli may stem from bad memories of what happened to Simms.
Maybe a poor game on national television will convince Mara that he needs to let DG and Shurmur do what needs to be done with Eli.
Quote:
Maybe a poor game on national television will convince Mara that he needs to let DG and Shurmur do what needs to be done with Eli.
Last Thursday wasn't a poor game on national television?
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
Quote:
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
One just got cleared to practice, and the other hasn't exactly done much this year.
But why not go into the season with the two of them as our only veteran edge rushers? How could that plan possibly fail?
Not to mention cutting Snacks as well - to pay for OL. So in other words, let's dump all the resources into the OL, for an older QB who's just as likely to retire at the end of next season.
Terrible ideas, just awful all the way around.
Speaking of GEMS, this is a good one....Keeping OV as our Veteran Edge rusher?! How many games has he played since we've signed him?! When he was on the field, how many sacks has he had?! You've got a hard on to dump Manning, but lets give the most overpaid player on the team another year because our rookies will only have 1 season or less under their belts. And we all know how much experience comes into play when it comes to rushing the passer.......pure genius rationale
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
I dont want to turn that corner yet because there's no coming back. I get it for sure and I'll concede to the coaching staff, if they think he'll play better, absolutely do it. If they think he gives them a better chance to win, do it.
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
Our skill depth isn't awful.......we can't control the LOS which stalls the whole process.
But you're right......just getting into the huddle, calling the play, getting it lined up. That's experience during a REAL NFL game.
Everything after that, sure he's going to most likely struggle. Maybe make a few plays with his legs but that will only go so far.
They need to find out if he's a capable backup, at worst, for next season.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
I'm talking depth, not front end talent. We're talking any missed time from the starters meaning major snaps to Russel Shepard (de-facto starter already), Jawill Davis, Scott Simonson, and Gallman being the only back.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
Mara
Eli
Gettleman
Shurmur
But Really Quinn sits on top of all of them as the shadow puppet master. He is the Kaiser Soze of the whole operation.
Quote:
So for Shurmur, even if they are 1-10, he will try to win every game and play the best people he can to try and do that. So Lauletta will have to show him he's better than Eli for that to happen.
If he is 1-10 and keeps doing the same thing, we should fire him at season's end. At some point you have to plan for next year. It feels like we have no plan.
Hey we have a plan! My plan!
Quote:
This is very likely. I think we will win 5 games this year and have the #6 pick in the draft. Eli will have some ok games. Giants will stick with him and draft OT ot DE in the first round.
I think eli will start every game until we are mathematically eliminated in 2019, at which point we will see lauletta. Then maybe draft a qb in 2020.
This is not a good plan, but I think it is the plan that will happen. And I'm not 100 percent opposed either because the 2020 qb class looks a lot better than 2019. It could be a while before the giants are good again. We missed out on the QBs in 2018, a great set of prospects. Now my main priority is to get a good qb and I'm unconvinced by this group. Could be wrong about all that obviously. Player evaluation is very hard. Just my opinion.
I will not buy the Sunday Ticket next year if I watch this entire season, see no improvement and the plan is to start Eli again next year. Not doing it. That will not directly affect the Giants, I know. Last year was bad, but we could blame injuries. To me, this year is worse.
Join the club. That was me this year. I knew what was coming and most of the early season games were on tv here.
Quote:
In comment 14135715 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I dont think he's got the arm for the meadowlands, at least not yet. On top of that I think he will get killed by this OL. He's more mobile than Eli, but he still got sacked during the preseason. And now he'll have top passrusher coming after him.
Hey if the coaches make the move, ok. I just dont think he's ready.
He doesn't have to be ready, he just needs to be able to operate the offense. He needs to know the plays, call the signals, get the ball and know his reads.
He's going to get his ass kicked, we all know that. The line is awful, the skill depth is awful, and he's brand new.
But if he can step in and the team can operate at the level Manning has been, you learn a lot.
I dont want to turn that corner yet because there's no coming back. I get it for sure and I'll concede to the coaching staff, if they think he'll play better, absolutely do it. If they think he gives them a better chance to win, do it.
Thanks amigo. Side note, I've been so obsessed with Manning being done, I've lost note of how much I've appreciated that 2005-2011 run. Truly remarkable 6 years for Coughlin and Manning. I hope Eli gets a shot to really destroy the Skins.
Quote:
So for Shurmur, even if they are 1-10, he will try to win every game and play the best people he can to try and do that. So Lauletta will have to show him he's better than Eli for that to happen.
If he is 1-10 and keeps doing the same thing, we should fire him at season's end. At some point you have to plan for next year. It feels like we have no plan.
Shurmur snd DG dont need to try and lose. The players are taking care of that themselves.
They think things are going to get better, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
At least with battered wives there can be psychological or economic reasons why some feel they have to stay in an abusive relationship. So I at least understand that.
Other than sentimentality, I just don't get why fans want to keep Eli.
He hasn't consistently played at even an average level for YEARS!
What 38 yr old QB (by 2019) suddenly starts playing better after what would be (at minimum) at least two consecutive years of poor play?
And if the Giants like a QB in next year's draft and can get him...Great! But the QB choices for 2019 shouldn't be draft a QB or keep Eli.
There are a number of vet QBs that are simply a better option next year than Eli, at a much cheaper price.
Keep Eli through the end of this season, then thank him for all he's done and get a QB who can still play.
1. Eli is likely our QB to start the next season, even if we take a QB in the 1st round. He may only last a game or two, but he is likely still the QB next season on the roster at the very least.
2. You can't just make him take a pay cut. Be careful what you wish for. Any reduction in pay may have to involve a short extension.
3. Finally, there needs to be a veteran QB on the roster to help the rookie. If you cut Eli, the cost of his dead money PLUS the ridiculous amount of money it takes to sign a mediocre journeyman (see Sam Bradford), is MORE than leaving Eli's cap hit as is and keeping him as a mentor.
That's the deal. You can call me a homer, but that's the reality of the situation.
Or you can cut Eli use the money on a FA OL ... and let the OC and his asst coaches ... coach up the rookie.
A vet QB can be had for minimum ....
Trevor Siemian QB 27 MIN TBD $583,196 UFA -
Brett Hundley QB 26 SEA TBD $625,908 UFA -
Taylor Heinicke QB 26 CAR TBD $660,000 UFA -
Tom Savage QB 29 SF TBD $790,000 UFA -
Sean Mannion QB 27 LA TBD $812,724 UFA -
Brock Osweiler QB 28 MIA TBD 2 415 4 15 2 $880,000 UFA -
Brandon Weeden QB 35 HOU TBD $880,000 UFA -
David Fales QB 28 MIA TBD $880,000 UFA -
Joe Webb QB 32 HOU TBD 6 $915,000 UFA -
Geno Smith QB 28 NYG TBD 2 8 -3 $1,000,000 UFA -
Derek Anderson QB 36 BUF TBD $1,073,530 UFA -
Robert Griffin III QB 29 BAL TBD $1,100,000 UFA -
Matt Cassel QB 37 DET TBD 1 14 -1 1 $1,105,000 UFA -
Ryan Griffin QB 29 TB TBD $1,125,000 UFA -
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB 36 TB TBD 4 1,356 11 62 1 5 1 $3,300,000 UFA -
Matt Schaub QB 38 ATL TBD 2 20 1 $4,500,000 UFA -
Yep. The long and short of it.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
Ryan Fitzpatrick's first two games this year were better than any game Eli has played since 2015, at 1/7th the cap number. I am in no way suggesting he is a solution, but I would look at him as a cheap veteran presence on the team to go along with the 1st round pick/Lauletta.
I don't want to see him starting for this team. I want a rookie or Lauletta starting. But he would be a cheap, capable backup.
What to do with Eli - ( New Window )
Have to say, I know the Giants lead the universe in rushes for loss. But, how is Shurmur not trying to pound it away with Barkley on the ground. I thought the whole point was to build around a running game again. Mangini says Giants average the fewest rushing attempts in he league.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
We have 1 win, and are ranked 24th in the NFL in Offense and 27th in Points Scored.
Not even close to holding a candle to these lofty numbers??
Quote:
but it didnt happen.
I dont think any of those backups in that list can hold a candle to what Eli can do. Not even close.
We have 1 win, and are ranked 24th in the NFL in Offense and 27th in Points Scored.
Not even close to holding a candle to these lofty numbers??
We would be dead last in every category and wouldnt look competitive imo.
Will Grier looking good
I see people who talk about getting rid of Eli and getting immediate results.
There are a lot of emotional posters who want the Giants to turn this around right away. I have news, thats not happening. There are too many things wrong with this team, and Eli isn't the worst of them. That's saying Eli is blameless. The Giants do have to move on from Eli.
But here is the thing, this team will suck the rest of this year, and they will suck in 2019. Get used to it. Get over the emotional aspects of it. Also remember the goal isn't to go 7-9, 8-8, or even 9-7. The goal is another trophy. There is no way this team is competing for the trophy in 2019. No way. With that in mind, what is the best way to get to the point of competing for it. What strategy give you the largest window, and thus your largest chance.
Getting a QB next year that finds a way to win 3 extra games doesn't really help. Those 3, 3, 4 games mean nothing in the bigger picture. If you have built a solid surrounding cast, getting your QB at that point allows you the opportunity to pay to keep the surrounding cast stronger for 6 years while you franchise QB is on his rookie contract, and assuming the first year of his 2nd contract is cost controlled. After that it gets harder because the QB cap hit goes up. Not impossible, just harder to keep a solid surround cast. So timing is a factor. Add to that the fact tha the QB class in 2020 is by all account far strong than 2019, it makes sense to suck in 2019 as well getting a top 5 pick in 2020.
I don't care if the Giants suck with or without Eli in 2019. Makes no difference to me. As long as the pieces are starting to fall into place.
I see people who talk about getting rid of Eli and getting immediate results.
There are a lot of emotional posters who want the Giants to turn this around right away. I have news, that's not happening. There are too many things wrong with this team, and Eli isn't the worst of them. That's NOT saying Eli is blameless. The Giants do have to move on from Eli.
But here is the thing, this team will suck the rest of this year, and they will suck in 2019. Get used to it. Get over the emotional aspects of it. Also remember the goal isn't to go 7-9, 8-8, or even 9-7. The goal is another trophy. There is no way this team is competing for the trophy in 2019. No way. With that in mind, what is the best way to get to the point of competing for it. What strategy gives you the largest window, and thus your largest chance.
Getting a QB next year that finds a way to win 3 extra games doesn't really help. Those 2, 3, 4 extra wins mean nothing in the bigger picture. Take next year to keep building out the team, and playing the new guys who will have growing pains. Assuming that the Giants have built a solid surrounding cast that is starting to come into their own by 2020, getting your QB at that point allows you the opportunity to pay to keep the surrounding cast stronger for 6 years while you franchise QB is on his rookie contract, That assumes that the first year of his 2nd contract is cost controlled. After that it gets harder because the QB cap hit goes up. Not impossible, just harder to keep a solid surrounding cast. So timing is a factor. Add to that the fact that the QB class in 2020 is by all accounts far strong than 2019, it makes sense to suck in 2019 ensuring a top 5 pick in 2020.
I don't care if the Giants suck with or without Eli in 2019. Makes no difference to me. As long as the pieces are starting to fall into place.
Wow, I shouldn't type when I am so sleepy... Many mistakes... Fixed above...