I know, I know, I know. Believe me I know.
I would ask Eli to take a paycut. Sounds harsh, but this concession will allow the Giants to field a competitive team. Reduce his hit to $10M somehow. Have Tisch fund Eli's charity or something.
Cut Vernon.
Cut Harrison (Giants are DEEP here and cheap).
Use that savings to buy one of a ORG/ORT or a OC.
Draft OL/DE/OL/DE/OL/DE
Get that OL fixed ONCE for Eli.
We will have Beal coming back to add to the DBs.
The young edge rushers will be a year older (Carter and Mcintosh). Draft more.
We will have the best RB in the league.
Give Eli time to be clutch.
Give Betcher a bunch of young fast Edge rushers to rotate.
Let's go out in a blaze of glory.
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That you had the balls to post this given the mood around here has increased my respect for you exponentially.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
Haha Fiddy, this really stems from my POV that this year is not the year to draft a QB and compound the bad. So what to do from there?
Jim, could you acknowledge that if we are picking 1st overall, it really doesn't matter how good the QB class is in 2019, as long as there is ONE championship, franchise caliber QB in the class? We only would draft one guy anyway. Likewise, even though 2020's class is supposed to be a good one, the "class" would not help us at all...we'd still need to draft the right ONE guy within that class.
There's too much time left to determine how this class shakes out. I've liked Ryan Finley but I acknowledge that Herbert is probably worthy of the #1 overall pick as it stands today. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I'm also not 100% sold on Tua in 2020, either. There's no doubt he's a terrific college QB. But there will be as many as 14 teams looking for a QB in next year's draft. There is very little competition in this year's draft, particularly where we are expected to draft (likely top 3). Who knows where we'd be drafting next year? 12? 17? 6? In any of those spots, we could be left out of the elite prospects at the position.
The class doesn't matter as long as the ONE ELITE QB is available to us where we pick.
But there are potential FA's or even a young guy on the team right now (Lauletta) who may be able to replicate what Case Keenum does, which is better than what we are getting at that position now.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No more band aids.
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In comment 14135445 Big Blue '56 said:
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That you had the balls to post this given the mood around here has increased my respect for you exponentially.
The content of your post(s) can be rationally debated, but that your conviction was laid out there as it has been, I say, much kudos to you.
Haha Fiddy, this really stems from my POV that this year is not the year to draft a QB and compound the bad. So what to do from there?
Jim, could you acknowledge that if we are picking 1st overall, it really doesn't matter how good the QB class is in 2019, as long as there is ONE championship, franchise caliber QB in the class? We only would draft one guy anyway. Likewise, even though 2020's class is supposed to be a good one, the "class" would not help us at all...we'd still need to draft the right ONE guy within that class.
There's too much time left to determine how this class shakes out. I've liked Ryan Finley but I acknowledge that Herbert is probably worthy of the #1 overall pick as it stands today. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I'm also not 100% sold on Tua in 2020, either. There's no doubt he's a terrific college QB. But there will be as many as 14 teams looking for a QB in next year's draft. There is very little competition in this year's draft, particularly where we are expected to draft (likely top 3). Who knows where we'd be drafting next year? 12? 17? 6? In any of those spots, we could be left out of the elite prospects at the position.
The class doesn't matter as long as the ONE ELITE QB is available to us where we pick.
I'm with you 100%. But for me its about playing the odds. Thats why I think last year was the year, odds are one or two of those guys will be really good.
If they have the top pick and Herbert is consensus, Im all for it. Even though Im not sure of the kid, but Im just a fan.
2020 will have alot of talent and the Giants will have to be super aggressive to get their guy. Eagles did it. Jets did it. But thats the year to do it, when the talent is there.
The idea of Grier/Lock/Finley at QB doesn't excite me in the least.
Not suggesting we should get Keenum in FA.
But there are potential FA's or even a young guy on the team right now (Lauletta) who may be able to replicate what Case Keenum does, which is better than what we are getting at that position now.
I dont see any FAs better than Eli if Eli cuts his cap hit to 10M.
I think KL is just a guy, imo. Not a NFL starter. Thats just me though.
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I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No. No one thinks he can. Where is the evidence that he can? He turns 38 in a couple of months.
Mind-boggling stuff.
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In comment 14135540 Keith said:
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I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
No. No one thinks he can. Where is the evidence that he can? He turns 38 in a couple of months.
Mind-boggling stuff.
Ok Dave, gotcha. I disagree with this, but such is life.
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I agree with you on one thing. You can't take a QB just to take a QB. Most people would agree with that statement. If none of these QB's are worthy, than fine, go OL. Nothing wrong with that plan. However, irregardless of that, Eli is finished. We need to see what KL has, or draft a QB in rd2-7 and/or find a replacement in FA or trade. The one thing that is certain, IMO, Eli cannot be our QB next year.
Why? Eli is shook right now because the OL is in shambles.
Do you really believe if DG fixes the right side of the OL and Saquon is dominant, Eli can't win? I think he can.
100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Might seem weird coming from me because many know I am not especially sentimental about Manning, but it's so sad seeing him getting beat like a bag out there during this transition.
A younger, more mobile QB isn't going to magically make more plays, solve the o-line issues, or maybe not even be better, but would have a better chance to not get his ass batted like a pinata.
I can't believe this exit is what some of the stronger supporters of him on this board had in mind.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Now this is all fair Keith, I get it. Here's why I think it can still work.
They drafted the best RB in the league. He is this successful without an OL. Let DG do what he's good at, drafting OL.
I think he still has enough arm (especially comparing to Lauletta's) and I think he has the mental resolve to come back. Thats Eli's strength, his mind. Get him an OL that will give him time. Get him to 3rd and 4, he will deliver.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
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my point is, you think Eli can play behind a good OLine.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
And by the time the Giants have a good OLine, Eli might be 40+ years old..
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100%. That's exactly what I think. His decision making is poor. His mobility is worse than ever. His pocket presence is brutally bad. His arm looks bad. Even his pre-snap reads seem off which has always been his best attribute. Eli looks like he is 100% finished.
Again, its been a 3 year trend now. We saw signs in 2016, then it got worse last year and even worse this year. I'm not sure why anyone would think that would change. Hes only getting older and you thinking he can do anything is based on wishful thinking and hope becasue we have seen very little since 2016.
Now this is all fair Keith, I get it. Here's why I think it can still work.
They drafted the best RB in the league. He is this successful without an OL. Let DG do what he's good at, drafting OL.
I think he still has enough arm (especially comparing to Lauletta's) and I think he has the mental resolve to come back. Thats Eli's strength, his mind. Get him an OL that will give him time. Get him to 3rd and 4, he will deliver.
Yes, good players will make great plays regardless of whats around him. Like Barkley. Why can't Eli? Your suggesting that he needs everyone around him to be great for him to be capable. What does that tell you? There are a lot of great QB's out there and I assure you that most cant even name their OL. The Pats go through these guys like nothing and yet they never miss a beat. Great players make great plays. Great players also make those around him better. Eli does not at this point in his career. He used to.
I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think we can just agree to disagree on this one.
Tua is the real deal. He does almost everything well.
Obviously he can still improve and learn - but he is very, very legit. He's going to be a star if he stays healthy. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Yes, good players will make great plays regardless of whats around him. Like Barkley. Why can't Eli? Your suggesting that he needs everyone around him to be great for him to be capable. What does that tell you? There are a lot of great QB's out there and I assure you that most cant even name their OL. The Pats go through these guys like nothing and yet they never miss a beat. Great players make great plays. Great players also make those around him better. Eli does not at this point in his career. He used to.
I appreciate where you are coming from, but I think we can just agree to disagree on this one.
All good man, we all want the Giants to win. Im trying to have my cake and eat it too. I dont think Eli needs perfection but I do think he needs a good run game and solid protection. And this OL will ne here for the next guy leading to quicker success for him as well. Want to win now and then win again lol.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Good point. I dont want him mentoring anyone. The new guy will slide into the saddle in 2020. Eli will be someplace new at that point.
Might seem weird coming from me because many know I am not especially sentimental about Manning, but it's so sad seeing him getting beat like a bag out there during this transition.
A younger, more mobile QB isn't going to magically make more plays, solve the o-line issues, or maybe not even be better, but would have a better chance to not get his ass batted like a pinata.
I can't believe this exit is what some of the stronger supporters of him on this board had in mind.
This is an outstanding post.
obviously Eli can be an excellent teacher if he chooses to be... but we have already seen the uproar over benching him, and how hard it appears to be for Mara, et al to let go... do we really need to saddle the next guy with this drama.
Let Eli go elsewhere in 2019 and start fresh without the spectre of Eli Manning being in the mix.
Definitely the best way to go. Nevermind trying to win with him again (holy shit), it would be best served for the next QB to have an Eli-free environment. Especially if "Giants fans" are going to throw another temper tantrum the next time he gets benched like a bunch of children.
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Very good chance Manning is on the roster for 2019 and very good chance the team and o-line are not a lot better.
christian, I think DG drafting WH shows he can find the talent. He missed on Norwell and had to settle for Solder. But that does give me hope he can find more OL stalwarts this year.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
I get it. I just imagine the OL without Solder. Eli might be dead.
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my point is, you think Eli can play behind a good OLine.
The thing is, this OLine is going to take awhile to fix. We have one of the worst OLines in the league. It's not even going to be fixed for the 2019 season, and Eli will be another year older. Who knows how long it will take to fix this OLine.
This has been talked about non-stop for like 2 years now. It blows my mind that there are a few out there that can't grasp this very simple concept.
Then again, there were some people on here who thought this team was going to be good this year, so..
Yup, if Eli cant operate behind a good OL, then you are 100% right. I think he can though, but no way to know until he has one.
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and Hawkins both have a ton to demonstrate in terms of projection to the NFL. Big arms and played big in a few big moments, but ...
Tua is the real deal. He does almost everything well.
Obviously he can still improve and learn - but he is very, very legit. He's going to be a star if he stays healthy. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
Oof, have to wait and see, he's got a ton to demonstrate that it will translate to the NFL. He's behind the OK QB for that designation.
But we have something else we can find out right now. We give another QB a shot. We let them take all the reps in practice, we let them start many games and see if they improve or play better. If we look better soon or we start improving it will tell us everything. What will it mean if the entire team has more energy with someone else behind center? We need to find out as soon as possible.
Sure, this is an option. If you think KL is viable, ok let's do it. IMO, he's not the answer and I think the Giants would be even worse. But if the coaching staff feels he's better, then lets see it.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
and you are 100% spot on. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand for some. I don't care what Case Keenum or Sam Bradford make. It makes zero sense for Eli to be on the Giants next year at that cap number. Let him go and use the savings to pursue top free agents to fill other gaping holes on the roster. He will not take a pay cut. Period.
I also want no part of Eli in a mentor role. He does not want to do it, and it would just be a weekly circus. I did not want to see Eli's career end like this, but it is where we are. Watching him take a beating every week, getting booed and listening to E-A-G-L-E-S and Who dat chants at Metlife sucks. They can't go a third year in a row like this. Move on.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
Totally agree with this. If Eli won't take a paycut, its good bye.
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Like I said - there's no viable argument for Eli being on the team next year at his current salary.
The team is bad with him NOW. Why are we keeping the 23M cap hit on the books next year to field another bad team when we can use the 17M we'd save by cutting him to improve other areas of the team for a younger QB?
and you are 100% spot on. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand for some. I don't care what Case Keenum or Sam Bradford make. It makes zero sense for Eli to be on the Giants next year at that cap number. Let him go and use the savings to pursue top free agents to fill other gaping holes on the roster. He will not take a pay cut. Period.
I also want no part of Eli in a mentor role. He does not want to do it, and it would just be a weekly circus. I did not want to see Eli's career end like this, but it is where we are. Watching him take a beating every week, getting booed and listening to E-A-G-L-E-S and Who dat chants at Metlife sucks. They can't go a third year in a row like this. Move on.
+1
Eli is toast in this offense, he needs a big physical X receiver and/or a two way TO more than a decent oline, and they're no where in sight.
If last year were an anomaly, then I get it, but it's not. You can't resurrect the past, not matter how bad you want it. These guys don't remember Eli when he was good. None of them were there. He's not leading the locker room and he's not getting the job done on the field. It's not all his fault, but after years and years of losing, you have to be an extreme homer not to acknowledge that at least some of it may be on him. He deserves the credit he's gotten for the two SB wins, but in just the same way, he deserves some of the blame for where the team is today.
It's incredible. Arizona looked as bad as us, but at least they're changing things up. We're maintaining course with the S.S. Mcadoo 2.0.
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But we have something else we can find out right now. We give another QB a shot. We let them take all the reps in practice, we let them start many games and see if they improve or play better. If we look better soon or we start improving it will tell us everything. What will it mean if the entire team has more energy with someone else behind center? We need to find out as soon as possible.
Sure, this is an option. If you think KL is viable, ok let's do it. IMO, he's not the answer and I think the Giants would be even worse. But if the coaching staff feels he's better, then lets see it.
If last year were an anomaly, then I get it, but it's not. You can't resurrect the past, not matter how bad you want it. These guys don't remember Eli when he was good. None of them were there. He's not leading the locker room and he's not getting the job done on the field. It's not all his fault, but after years and years of losing, you have to be an extreme homer not to acknowledge that at least some of it may be on him. He deserves the credit he's gotten for the two SB wins, but in just the same way, he deserves some of the blame for where the team is today.
Great post.
the back seven needs almost a total rebuild. Jenkins and Apple don't seem able to hold the corner or cover and our once star safety is having real trouble. beyond that we have nothing. If we had a 'giant' defense we could win some games with barkley and eli and our other skill players.
Rebuild defense needs to be as urgent if not more so than the 'o' line rebuild and perhaps a qb of the future