It looks like we are starting with about $18.8M in Cap space next year which puts us at 27th in the league. If we make the following moves, some of which would be more difficult than others we could get to $80M in cap space with 25 players still on the active roster.
We could release the following players:
Eli Manning ($17M Savings)
I still love Eli and I think he definitely has throws in him but he HAS regressed significantly and the Giants are just not going to be a team he can succeed with over the next 1.5 years.
Olivier Vernon ($11.5M Savings)
I like him more than most but he is going to be 29 and by my count this will save us $15.5M in 2020
Janoris Jenkins ($7.25M Savings)
Has been very inconsistent this year. However releasing him makes a very thing DB room much thinner. We would be counting on Eli Apple to continue to turn the corner and for Sam Beal to really step up. He will be 30 and will save us $11.25 M in 2020.
Alec Ogletree ($6.5M Savings)
I dont know about this one. I have liked him this year. He isnt elite but he is solid which is a hell of a lot better than what we had before. He is also still only going to be 28 and appears to be a good locker room guy. Saves $8.25M in 2020 and $7.25M in 2021.
Snacks Harrison ($5.4M Savings)
Another tough one. One of my favorite Giants of all time and is still at the top of his game but are we just wasting him now that he is on the wrong side of 30? Also saves us $9.2M in 2020.
Rhett Ellison ($3.25M Savings)
He is competent but not nearly the dominant blocker I was hoping for and is also going to be 31. Saves us $5M in 2020
Kareem Martin ($3.2M Savings)
Nothing more needed. Saves us $4.8M in 2020
Jonathon Stewart ($2.85M Savings)
Nothing more needed.
Michael Thomas ($2M Savings)
Nothing more needed.
Connor Barwin ($1.5M Savings)
Nothing more needed.
Paul Perkins ($720K Savings)
Nothing more needed.
Yeah, starters that are 4-18 since September 2017. What are we clinging to?
You build around the pieces you have.
I'm not even sold on releasing Vernon, I'm waiting to see how the rest of his season plays out.
I agree and I dont think we should release all of those players but the cap savings # is just a metric to help future decisions.
ie. Can we replace Olivier Vernon for less than $11.5M and get the same results? If they think the answer is yes, you pull the trigger.
Frankly... Snacks, Ogletree and maybe Jenkins give me the most pause of those listed. As for the rest, I think we can find similar or better production for less money.
Reese's signings bought one playoff year. There are cuts to be made from those signings now 3 years old, but you can't just cut guys who have not been given a chance to produce in you system yet without backups with increasing potential.
Vernon, Jenkins, Harrison, and Ogletree are, unfortunately, the best players on the defense and the drop off behind them is quite steep.
Reese's signings bought one playoff year. There are cuts to be made from those signings now 3 years old, but you can't just cut guys who have not been given a chance to produce in you system yet without backups with increasing potential.
Oh, we arent going to be competitive? WE ARE 1-5! We are 4-18 since September 2017! What are we clinging to?
On that list, I think we hang onto Snacks, Ogletree and maybe Jenkins but I always like the idea of cutting bait a year early vs. a year too late.
Frankly, I would rather be 0-6 with rookies and cheap, young vets that might actually improve with time and experience than 1-5 with expensive, aging players who are what they are.
The 2005 NYG had Barber, Strahan, and Toomer all making good money for the time, which Accorsi was routinely questioned -- and those were carryovers from 2 years of 10-22 football.
The team turned the corner that year adding more UFA.
There is fat to trim contractually for sure. But just so we're honest this what the balance of the roster would be:
Odell Beckham, Jr. WR
Nate Solder LT
Saquon Barkley RB
Patrick Omameh G
Eli Apple CB
Evan Engram TE
Sterling Shepard WR
Will Hernandez G
Dalvin Tomlinson DT
Lorenzo Carter DE
Sam Beal CB
B.J. Hill DT
B.J. Goodson ILB
Wayne Gallman RB
Kyle Lauletta QB
Riley Dixon P
Chad Wheeler T
R.J. McIntosh DT
Evan Brown C
Sean Chandler S
Tae Davis LB
Jawill Davis WR
Garrett Dickerson TE
Kamrin Moore CB
Nick Gates G
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You can't field a competitive football team by replacing your starters with rookies and vet minimum contracts.
Reese's signings bought one playoff year. There are cuts to be made from those signings now 3 years old, but you can't just cut guys who have not been given a chance to produce in you system yet without backups with increasing potential.
Oh, we arent going to be competitive? WE ARE 1-5! We are 4-18 since September 2017! What are we clinging to?
On that list, I think we hang onto Snacks, Ogletree and maybe Jenkins but I always like the idea of cutting bait a year early vs. a year too late.
Frankly, I would rather be 0-6 with rookies and cheap, young vets that might actually improve with time and experience than 1-5 with expensive, aging players who are what they are.
I don't think anyone would argue that the Giants need cap space and will need to release expensive players to get there, but timing is important. If you have players on your roster or that you can acquire who give you similar production at a cheaper cost then by all means, cut bait. But who are these cheap young vets you are referring to? Sam Beal? BW Webb? Lorenzo Carter? I sure hope not.
The 2005 NYG had Barber, Strahan, and Toomer all making good money for the time, which Accorsi was routinely questioned -- and those were carryovers from 2 years of 10-22 football.
The team turned the corner that year adding more UFA.
There is fat to trim contractually for sure. But just so we're honest this what the balance of the roster would be:
Odell Beckham, Jr. WR
Nate Solder LT
Saquon Barkley RB
Patrick Omameh G
Eli Apple CB
Evan Engram TE
Sterling Shepard WR
Will Hernandez G
Dalvin Tomlinson DT
Lorenzo Carter DE
Sam Beal CB
B.J. Hill DT
B.J. Goodson ILB
Wayne Gallman RB
Kyle Lauletta QB
Riley Dixon P
Chad Wheeler T
R.J. McIntosh DT
Evan Brown C
Sean Chandler S
Tae Davis LB
Jawill Davis WR
Garrett Dickerson TE
Kamrin Moore CB
Nick Gates G
The question to be answered for each player is: can we get similar production for less money? I think the answer for the majority of those players is yes, we can.
As I said, I think we hang onto Snacks, Ogletree and perhaps Jenkins and I would rather be 0-6 with rookies and young, cheaper vets who might improve than 1-5 with expensive, aging vets who have peaked. It is better to cut them a year early than a year too late.
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In comment 14135703 Ivan15 said:
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You can't field a competitive football team by replacing your starters with rookies and vet minimum contracts.
Reese's signings bought one playoff year. There are cuts to be made from those signings now 3 years old, but you can't just cut guys who have not been given a chance to produce in you system yet without backups with increasing potential.
Oh, we arent going to be competitive? WE ARE 1-5! We are 4-18 since September 2017! What are we clinging to?
On that list, I think we hang onto Snacks, Ogletree and maybe Jenkins but I always like the idea of cutting bait a year early vs. a year too late.
Frankly, I would rather be 0-6 with rookies and cheap, young vets that might actually improve with time and experience than 1-5 with expensive, aging players who are what they are.
But who are these cheap young vets you are referring to? Sam Beal? BW Webb? Lorenzo Carter? I sure hope not.
Granted, a cheap/young vet isnt going to be available without question marks (otherwise they wouldnt be cheap). What I meant was, guys who might slip free from another team next year.
But also yes, I would rather roll the dice with Sam Beal and Carter playing minutes than Vernon and Jenkins because that might give us the cap space to sign a quality OL or two. At least there is a possibility, if not likelihood, that Beal and Carter will get better. Not really the case with Vernon and Jenkins.
As I said, I think we hang onto Snacks, Ogletree and perhaps Jenkins and I would rather be 0-6 with rookies and young, cheaper vets who might improve than 1-5 with expensive, aging vets who have peaked. It is better to cut them a year early than a year too late.
Sure - if the premise is there a number of veteran cuts to be made I don't disagree. Manning and Vernon and a number of acquisitions this off season are on the bubble.
I don't think any of the UFA Gettleman brought on are part of the solution, and I include Omameh and Solder to that.
Next year shouldn't be a 1-5 start type year -- it should be the turning point year. If this team adds a young QB, and help on the line in UFA this should be a 5-11 type team.
I'd rather get assets for Eli Apple especially if he has a decent year.
Vernon is costing too much, but after 2019 is when he should be cut (if at all). He is, by far, our best pass rusher. That was true against the Eagles, even on a bum ankle.
Jenkins is a very talented CB. If motivated, I'd call him elite. Keep him as a necessary core player.
These salaries are substantial, but are relatively lower each season. Signing new FA talent at current prices is cost prohibitive.
Keep these guys, continue to draft well, and add a FA RT.
Oh, and let Shurmur pick his QB in the draft
Vernon is costing too much, but after 2019 is when he should be cut (if at all). He is, by far, our best pass rusher. That was true against the Eagles, even on a bum ankle.
Jenkins is a very talented CB. If motivated, I'd call him elite. Keep him as a necessary core player.
These salaries are substantial, but are relatively lower each season. Signing new FA talent at current prices is cost prohibitive.
Keep these guys, continue to draft well, and add a FA RT.
Oh, and let Shurmur pick his QB in the draft
You get better by cutting your best players if they arent producing relative to their cap number. If we can get the same production from the edge for less than $11.5M we just got better by cutting one of our best players.
Yes, they are OUR best players but OUR best players are not good values IMO and that is what the salary cap is about - getting good value.
This is assuming we are trying to be remotely competitive. If we're tanking then I support cutting everyone
But when competing against the other 31 teams for FAs, you don't get bargains. Guys like Vernon and Jenkins are worth their price tag (when healthy)
You can (maybe) cherry pick a few lower priced FAs who have good production, but that is an unrealistic way to build a franchise.
Keeping top talent and drafting well is a better blueprint for success.
Cutting a guy like Omameh makes more sense - if you have his replacement (and still probably best to keep him for depth)
It doesnt. As I said, I think we definitely keep Snacks, probably keep Ogletree and maybe keep Jenkins.
If we keep all three and release the rest we will have about $61 Million.
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$80m is actually way too much cap space. You can't spend that much on FAs in one off season. You're only going to get a 2 maybe 3 impact FAs in any one off season. There's a limit to what you can do with the signing of FAs because other teams have money as well.
It doesnt. As I said, I think we definitely keep Snacks, probably keep Ogletree and maybe keep Jenkins.
If we keep all three and release the rest we will have about $61 Million.
You're still cutting guys you have to go out and replace with FA dollars or wait till or if they develop as draft choices. Still way overboard. Stewart, Ohmameh, maybe Martin and Barwin and you'd have $30+m and that would be enough to sign our own, get a good FA OL an decent safety and some other pieces.
Now that is one way having financial flexibility helps.
You can take on a bad contract (or contracts) from a desperate team looking to get rid of a player as they give you a premium draft pick (or picks) in exchange.
As of now, I'd keep Vernon, Jackrabbit, and Ogletree for starters. Jury is out on the rest IMO.
Why?
Vernon - Who else do we have an an edge rusher? Who could we get for less that is any good? Keep him in 2019.
Jackrabbit - Any #1 CB's out there for less than he makes?
I don't know.
Ogletree - Somebody has to play ILB, right? Is Goodsen good enough to fill his shoes? How about Ray Ray? Nope.
On Eli - We have to see how the year goes, I would not be so quick to cut bait with him. If we draft a QB high, Eli is the veteran transition guy. Who else do we have who can play? Is Derek Carr the answer? Don't know.
In comment 14135753 Jim in Forest Hills said:
I'd rather get assets for Eli Apple especially if he has a decent year.
Question is which half is more of the problem?
15 our defense sucked so we stacked up.
I think now we just need ol and a passrusher
hesitate if the right QB is there depending on where they draft from and who is available .
I don't think they will cut him even if they draft a QB at one but if they do it's probably his last season .
Vernon played well if he stays healthy and puts up some numbers I wouldn't be so quick to cut him we still need
another DE or pass rusher for the opposite side .
Ogletree and Jenkins are solid Vets as is Harrison who is one of the best in the game only problem I see with him is how much longer are those knees gonna hold up ?
So no your not gonna cut him , Trade him possibly
The rest not all that concerned with . I am not all that thrilled with Ellison but right now we are thin .
Vernon, Jenkins, Harrison, and Ogletree are, unfortunately, the best players on the defense and the drop off behind them is quite steep.
Vernon is great except he always hurt. He gets hurt again he’s gone for sure