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Duggan: Omameh benched, Greco to RG, Pulley to center

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/20/2018 1:32 pm
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RE: Here’s what IS concerning about DGs evaluation here  
Giants_West : 10/20/2018 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14136795 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
Omameh started at LG last year and by far, had his best year. Before that he was barely a JAG especially when playing RG. So what does Gettleman do? He signs Omameh plans to play him at LG, then drafts a LG which necessitates moving his signee to RG a position he has NOT been good at.
Fucking brilliant planning! I would expect this out of Reese but DG had shown more smarts in building Carolina.

It’s like everyone connected to the Giants is taking stupid pills or something.


Don’t forget that said drafted LG probably was more suited to RG to begin with and the trades a more than serviceable back-up center just before the season.

For the second year in a row I I feel like there was a much better line that the team just whiffed on and probably will waste another season figuring it out.
Sucks that Omemah isn’t any good  
bradshaw44 : 10/20/2018 4:44 pm : link
But unlike the last couple regimes it’s refreshing to see them benching underperformers.
RE: Here’s what IS concerning about DGs evaluation here  
robbieballs2003 : 10/20/2018 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14136795 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
Omameh started at LG last year and by far, had his best year. Before that he was barely a JAG especially when playing RG. So what does Gettleman do? He signs Omameh plans to play him at LG, then drafts a LG which necessitates moving his signee to RG a position he has NOT been good at.
Fucking brilliant planning! I would expect this out of Reese but DG had shown more smarts in building Carolina.

It’s like everyone connected to the Giants is taking stupid pills or something.


So, are you saying that Gettleman could see the future and knew Hernandez would be available? Or are you saying he should have doubled down on Omameh by not drafting Hernandez because he played LG? Or are you suggesting that they should have moved Hernandez to RG which would have been more of a problem.

Gettleman doesn't have the gift of foresight. He did what he did because of the shitty situation we were in. Not every move is going to work out. No GM bats 1.000. I disagreed with the Stewart signing and I was skeptical of the Omameh signing but he was trying to plug up holes before the draft so we weren't forced to pick for need. The FA class sucked so he did what he could. It wasn't ideal but it did allow us to draft quality players so for that alone I am happy. This wasn't going to be turned around in one year unless every move worked out and we stayed healthy.

What we did get out of this year is an adequate LT which we haven't had in forever, a soon to be beast of a LT, possibly the best RB in the NFL, and a solid group of young defenders in Carter and Hill. This is a process that'll take time. Just go with the flow.
LG not LT  
robbieballs2003 : 10/20/2018 4:51 pm : link
.
RE: Solder  
larryflower37 : 10/20/2018 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14136791 AcidTest said:
Quote:
and Omameh were bad decisions based on another bad decision, the belief that Eli had three or four more productive seasons.


Solder was not a bad decision. We over paid but there was no alternative. We did not have a left tackle at all And he was the best available.
He has been respectable.
RE: RE: Solder  
robbieballs2003 : 10/20/2018 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14136822 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14136791 AcidTest said:


Quote:


and Omameh were bad decisions based on another bad decision, the belief that Eli had three or four more productive seasons.



Solder was not a bad decision. We over paid but there was no alternative. We did not have a left tackle at all And he was the best available.
He has been respectable.


Agreed.

Acid, if we went with any other QB you believe that Solder wasn't going to be a target for us? Come on. Solder wasn't connected to Eli. Solder is connected to our offense being able to function regardless of who is playing QB.
Ok so  
Joey in VA : 10/20/2018 5:02 pm : link
Now the idea that the OL is a unit should sink in more. Omameh was solid with other good players and a ball control offense. With crap in the team running the LEAST in the league he's struggling. Color me shocked. I thought he would be better but I also thought we would actually be run heavy. He struggles most to his inside on passing plays and we don't have the talent or scheme to get what he doesn't suck at. He's a cheap mid level vet, we suck so does he and we keep plugging away at this. He's way cheaper than Pugh and Richburg and probably playing at the same level. So who's dumb, DG or the Cards and Niners who shelled out for those two assholes and we got a comparable level of play for a fraction of the cost.
Honestly, I think at this point you can make the argument  
eclipz928 : 10/20/2018 5:03 pm : link
that the offensive line that Giants had last year was actually better than the line that Gettleman constructed this year. It's sad.
RE: ...  
mfsd : 10/20/2018 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14136644 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
What I like so far about this regime is the willingness to try someone else if the starter isn’t getting it done. While that hasn’t been instituted across the board, this plus Flowers’s benching is somewhat refreshing.


+1
RE: He's on the hook for next year too, correct?  
BillT : 10/20/2018 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14136646 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Another winning FA signing by DG. I hate to even contemplate this because he blew cock as well, but we might have been better off with fucking John Jerry this year.

No. He can be release next year with about $3.5m cap savings.
Always amuses me  
bceagle05 : 10/20/2018 5:16 pm : link
when the reserves start replacing the starters and the line improves.
I’ve said it before  
Fred-in-Florida : 10/20/2018 5:32 pm : link
I think We should have tried to keep Flucker! Once he started, the run game picked up. I don’t know what he signed for but it didn’t appear Gettleman tried to hard if at all. He wasn’t great at pass protection but being next to Hart no one would be.
RE: I’ve said it before  
Diver_Down : 10/20/2018 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14136860 Fred-in-Florida said:
Quote:
I think We should have tried to keep Flucker! Once he started, the run game picked up. I don’t know what he signed for but it didn’t appear Gettleman tried to hard if at all. He wasn’t great at pass protection but being next to Hart no one would be.


Fred, it is my supposition that the lack of interest by DG was to not bring back what might have been questionable motivation. Fluker only signed for $1.5M and he was available on the market for some time. So it wasn't a matter of availability or cost. DG might have questioned how a mountain of a man can be relegated to IR for a sore toe. There was no news that he needed surgery or other medical treatment this off season.
so the starting line  
Gregorio : 10/20/2018 5:48 pm : link
Monday looks like;

Solder, Hernandez, Pulley, Greco, Wheeler

3/5 were backups at start of season. Definitely a work in progress. Do we know if Wheeler is ok to play?
RE: Sucks that Omemah isn’t any good  
markky : 10/20/2018 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14136811 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
But unlike the last couple regimes it’s refreshing to see them benching underperformers.


This. I never felt that we were putting the best players on the field (under McAdoodle or even Couglin). I have greater confidence that this is happening now.
You can’t make a silk’s purse out of a sow’s ear.  
joe48 : 10/20/2018 6:00 pm : link
I will give Gettleman a pass this year. He tried to remake our OL by letting the players who wanted more money like Richburg and Pugh go. The market was limited and the retooling did not work with 2 players Flowers and Omameh being replaced.
At least Shumur is moving on from these players now. That is a change from the past. You cannot recover from years of bad drafting in one year.
Another brilliant signing by DG  
Rflairr : 10/20/2018 6:01 pm : link
If this offseason is any indication, the Giants are in big shit with this guy as GM
Hate to pile on  
Peppers : 10/20/2018 6:18 pm : link
But it was a bad signing at the time. People I spoke with said many were scratching their heads when they heard of the contract he received. He's a replacement player. Meaning a year to year contract guy.
Jesus, give these guys a break  
chiro56 : 10/20/2018 6:19 pm : link
At least when they see a fuck up they do what they can to change it . Not like the crap that when on in the past.
chiro  
XBRONX : 10/20/2018 6:25 pm : link
So it is better signing crap and discarding it, then it is to keep it. I guess so.
Not sure how you can blame Gettleman for all of this..  
EricJ : 10/20/2018 6:30 pm : link
He selected Hernandez who may be our best OL right now. He was handed a gigantic mess created by Reese. You cannot fix this OL in one year.

Whitworth should have been signed a couple of years ago. Reese blew that. The whole landscape of our OL and our offense would be much different if we were able to get him.

** As much as I think Reese was the worst GM in football, I think he may have attempted to sign other guys but we are not such an attractive place to go.
When your dealt the Hand these guys were dealt  
chiro56 : 10/20/2018 6:32 pm : link
You draw new cards. The only cards left in the deck kinda suck too. In Free agency, it can be a crap shoot. No pun intended. By moving on, they realize its not working and you accept it by moving on. Who thought this was going to be a quick fix.
RE: ...  
widmerseyebrow : 10/20/2018 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14136644 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
What I like so far about this regime is the willingness to try someone else if the starter isn’t getting it done. While that hasn’t been instituted across the board, this plus Flowers’s benching is somewhat refreshing.


That is the lone bright spot. If this was Reese's signing Omameh would have a stone cold grip on the position for 3 years.
Omameh.. looks like hog.. plays like Mollie  
TD : 10/20/2018 8:19 pm : link
.
RE: RE: ...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/20/2018 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14136956 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14136644 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


What I like so far about this regime is the willingness to try someone else if the starter isn’t getting it done. While that hasn’t been instituted across the board, this plus Flowers’s benching is somewhat refreshing.



That is the lone bright spot. If this was Reese's signing Omameh would have a stone cold grip on the position for 3 years.

Dis.

Everyone makes mistakes, but you have to constantly fix your mistakes and improve.
Shurmer played center so his evaluation and changes for pulley at  
plato : 10/20/2018 8:23 pm : link
At center and benching omameh is done with some knowledge. Those center -guard gaps have been major problem . Changing R guard though does raise issues to me:

1. Did we cut Flowerstoo soon? Of course he may have some stuff we don’t know about, lines are units, so we’ll see.

2. Why trade two centers when this your weakness?

3. Was Flowers considered at R guard or was there more to the Flowers story?

4. Lines need time so this “break” followed by bye is as good a time as any to make these changes.
BB had no problem  
Doomster : 10/20/2018 9:09 pm : link
replacing Solder...for 20M less....
Pulley led all  
XBRONX : 10/20/2018 9:14 pm : link
centers last year in pressures allowed. Run Eli run.
RE: When your dealt the Hand these guys were dealt  
Rflairr : 10/20/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14136903 chiro56 said:
Quote:
You draw new cards. The only cards left in the deck kinda suck too. In Free agency, it can be a crap shoot. No pun intended. By moving on, they realize its not working and you accept it by moving on. Who thought this was going to be a quick fix.


All the decisions that have been made by this GM suggest he thought it would be a quick fix
We need a new coach not players  
Eli_vate : 10/20/2018 10:02 pm : link
Look at Munchak out in western PA, everyone who signs is turned into a solid lineman.. here talent is wasted
This is the  
spike : 10/20/2018 11:25 pm : link
Run Eli Run Line
Making changes....  
Britt in VA : 10/20/2018 11:54 pm : link
good. Why not?
RE: the enching isnt the mistake  
jogo1 : 10/21/2018 12:37 am : link
In comment 14136705 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
but clearly the signing was.

and can we please ban use of the phrase ‘hog mollies’ from here on out?


It's hard to play heavy-handed football and run the Duke without hog mollies...
This guy didn't pass the eyeball test from the 1st preseason game  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/21/2018 1:11 am : link
...It was pretty clear that he was trash. Which was weird in Sy's writeups because Sy kept dumping on Hernandez in the preseason when I thought it was pretty obvious that Omameh was way worse.
Omameh was a reasonable gamble  
bc4life : 10/21/2018 2:13 am : link
Played okay in spots for a few other teams. This what often happens in the league - journeyman gets a shot to see if they can hold starting job - and it doesn't work out.

Jerry had the opportunity to hold onto his job. He didn't. There is a reason why.
re: Pulley  
bc4life : 10/21/2018 2:22 am : link
2017 article about him
link - ( New Window )
another  
bc4life : 10/21/2018 2:27 am : link
Pulley article - re: why he was on the bubble after starting as a rookie
link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Here’s what IS concerning about DGs evaluation here  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/21/2018 3:29 am : link
In comment 14136817 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:

What we did get out of this year is an adequate LT which we haven't had in forever

This is a process that'll take time. Just go with the flow.


Here's the thing. Solder is 30, and it's now pretty clear it wasn't just a down year in 2017 for pass protection. He's a declining player. So if this is a process that's going to take time, what's solder going to be a year or two from now if you can very much argue that the best lineman on the team isn't the LT, it's the LG.
To be honest, if  
George from PA : 10/21/2018 4:04 am : link
Hernandez, Pulley and Wheeler gel....i am happy...as all 3 are young. Hernandez and Wheeler are getting better.Pulley is a young player that I suspect Shurmur knew in Vanderbilt.

Grecco and Solder are veterens....

I like they are trying different options. I understand it might look like switching deck chairs on the titanic....still better then doing the same thing and hoping for a different result
To be honest, if  
George from PA : 10/21/2018 4:04 am : link
Hernandez, Pulley and Wheeler gel....i am happy...as all 3 are young. Hernandez and Wheeler are getting better.Pulley is a young player that I suspect Shurmur knew in Vanderbilt.

Grecco and Solder are veterens....

I like they are trying different options. I understand it might look like switching deck chairs on the titanic....still better then doing the same thing and hoping for a different result
To be honest, if  
George from PA : 10/21/2018 4:04 am : link
Hernandez, Pulley and Wheeler gel....i am happy...as all 3 are young. Hernandez and Wheeler are getting better.Pulley is a young player that I suspect Shurmur knew in Vanderbilt.

Grecco and Solder are veterens....

I like they are trying different options. I understand it might look like switching deck chairs on the titanic....still better then doing the same thing and hoping for a different result
To be honest, if  
George from PA : 10/21/2018 4:04 am : link
Hernandez, Pulley and Wheeler gel....i am happy...as all 3 are young. Hernandez and Wheeler are getting better.Pulley is a young player that I suspect Shurmur knew in Vanderbilt.

Grecco and Solder are veterens....

I like they are trying different options. I understand it might look like switching deck chairs on the titanic....still better then doing the same thing and hoping for a different result
RE: RE: RE: Here’s what IS concerning about DGs evaluation here  
robbieballs2003 : 10/21/2018 6:39 am : link
In comment 14137174 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14136817 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:



What we did get out of this year is an adequate LT which we haven't had in forever

This is a process that'll take time. Just go with the flow.



Here's the thing. Solder is 30, and it's now pretty clear it wasn't just a down year in 2017 for pass protection. He's a declining player. So if this is a process that's going to take time, what's solder going to be a year or two from now if you can very much argue that the best lineman on the team isn't the LT, it's the LG.


I understand what you are saying but we need NFL bodies on the OL otherwise you cannot function as an offense. Was Solder ideal? Far from it. It reminds me of that phrase in Beerfest when they are talking about Landfill when he died and the guy says, "He was a fat asshole but he was our fat asshole." I'm not saying Solder is an asshole. Far from it. He seems like a great person. But what I mean is he is an overpriced adequate LT but he's our overpriced adequate LT and that is way more than we've had in years here. This shouldn't be so much about Solder as much as it should be about what the alternative was and that was probably Flowers again. So, yeah, give me Solder at his price tag so we know what we have for the next four years so that gives us a fighting chance as well as time to find his replacement. This was something Reese couldn't comprehend. He passed on guys like Whitworth because he didn't fit the profile of under 30. There is zero reason that we didn't seriously look at the LT position while Flowers was here. He was basically handed the job from day one with no competition. Talk about setting a horrible example fod your team. Every player should have to earn their job. Flowers felt he was entitled to it hence why he didn't show up immediately when he was moved to RT.
I just don't get it.......  
Doomster : 10/21/2018 9:09 am : link
A GM is suppose to maximize his resources.....

You pay crazy money for a LT, that may not be around when this OL finally gels.....you go out and get a fix for the OL, that is now benched.....and the OL/team is no better....

Yet, let's use the excuse that someone inherited a shit show and should be given a blank check for next year......

I just do not see what Shurm/DG are suppose to be bringing to this team.......
first, it’s good they are making moves  
GiantTuff1 : 10/21/2018 9:21 am : link
as soon as they see it’s not working.

Second, the thing to watch will be whether Pulley is a better player than Brett Jones, or whether Jones could have helped this team now, and whether the decision to jettison Jones was sound.

Tho by the looks of it no one is helping this team... Jones, Pulley or whoever...
Solder is not an example  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/21/2018 9:59 am : link
Of don't go shopping when hungry. He is an example of don't go shopping when starving to death.

Imagine how far this franchise would have been set back with Flowers still at LT.
RE: I just don't get it.......  
Justlurking : 10/21/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 14137266 Doomster said:
Quote:
A GM is suppose to maximize his resources.....

You pay crazy money for a LT, that may not be around when this OL finally gels.....you go out and get a fix for the OL, that is now benched.....and the OL/team is no better....

Yet, let's use the excuse that someone inherited a shit show and should be given a blank check for next year......

I just do not see what Shurm/DG are suppose to be bringing to this team.......


Agree 100%. Anyone with eyes saw this needed to be a complete tear down and DG instead chose to double down. Everything from that point on is on DG. They should be stockpiling future assets and gearing up for the future. Instead we only have 6 picks and don’t have a 3rd rounder next year.
Omameh has been terrible going back to pre-season  
Simms11 : 10/21/2018 10:24 am : link
and this is the right move IMO. Immediate issue I see right now is the right side of the line miscommunicating on stunts and getting Eli killed. Greco being a vet might help, but he’s hasn’t played with Pulley and Wheeler very long?! That move might take a little while to gel. I’m hoping for the best. I don’t think Pulley or Greco are long-term answers however. They need to get a decent Center and RG in here next year. I might give Wheeler another year to improve. We won’t be capable of replacing all three on the right side next off-season, but if we can at least get 4 of the 5 on the Oline solidified, then it would go a long way to improving this line and team as a whole.
RE: RE: I just don't get it.......  
section125 : 10/21/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14137338 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14137266 Doomster said:


Quote:


A GM is suppose to maximize his resources.....

You pay crazy money for a LT, that may not be around when this OL finally gels.....you go out and get a fix for the OL, that is now benched.....and the OL/team is no better....

Yet, let's use the excuse that someone inherited a shit show and should be given a blank check for next year......

I just do not see what Shurm/DG are suppose to be bringing to this team.......



Agree 100%. Anyone with eyes saw this needed to be a complete tear down and DG instead chose to double down. Everything from that point on is on DG. They should be stockpiling future assets and gearing up for the future. Instead we only have 6 picks and don’t have a 3rd rounder next year.


Yes because you can just buy draft picks and future assets(whatever the heck that is).
Ohmama is a Bust in Progress  
OntheRoad : 10/21/2018 2:21 pm : link
but not every free agent pans out.

The moves I disagreed with are cutting Fluker and trading Jones. Gettleman has gone a bit far in getting rid of capable players from the previous regime even without competent replacements or depth.
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