The Giants are gonna rebound. I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley and OBJ. And I believe in Eli. If all five stay healthy and focused, they can turn this thing around. It's a work-in-progress from top to bottom so don't be so quick to judge their potential.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
In 2020 he'll most likely be the 3rd QB taken behind Tua & Fromm with no real guarantee on what team he's going to play for.
Is he really going to pass up a chance to go top 3 to a team in the biggest market in the NFL that happens to have skill position players like Saquon, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Gallman? I have a very hard time believing that.
If he's a top 3 guy and the top-rated QB, he can't afford NOT to come out this year, because if he waits a year his stock either stays the same or it goes down. Plus he loses a full year of NFL compensation that could cost him $20 M+.
We heard the same noise about Darnold last year and he went pro once he learned that he was likely going near the top of the draft.
This is just a speculative tweet by an "insider" who has to keep coming up with stuff to engage his followers. It really doesn't mean anything at this point.
in 2020, especially if things start getting ugly with the CBA that expires at the end of the 2020 season. I know there likely wont be a lockout but Im guessing the threat of one will get more players to declare early next year.
That is a bad thing for anyone thinking of staying after his year. Your competition increases, and your stock is almost certainly going to take a hit.
Doubt it...would have to mortgage the farm to move up to get him if so
Giants blew their op last draft..it was set up
Whatever you are smokin', pass it down.
If you can't see this is a 3 win team this year and likely just as bad next year when they drop the vets in the offseason, I don't know what to tell you.
This team is going to be bad- Browns level bad- for several years. The next two years will be all about putting younger draftees and young RFAs they bring in and building OL and DL depth- and slowly building around them.
Anyone who thinks the Giants are going to need to trade up in the next several drafts hasn't been paying attention. This team is a top 5, likely top 3- maybe even top pick bad team and will be until at least the 2020 season.
With Tua and Fromm likely coming out the next year, it is hard to believe that he would stay and give up the chance to be a top 5 pick and risk injury. Time will tell
Mayfield at 1 overall makes $32 million guaranteed. Allen at 6 picks later makes almost $12 million less.
That is a massive amount of money lost from being taken 7 instead of 1. Thats lifechanging money thats lost. Thats money lost that you wish you had if your career doesnt work out for whatever reaso.m that is.
I cant put myself in anyone elses shoes but its a no brainer for me. As much as Id love to play with my brother, Id be much more inclined to want to make sure I can support him if he needed it for the rest of his life.
more to the strength of the draft next year anyway. I think Oline and Edge Rusher can really be addressed first. Let Lauletta and another low budget rental vet duke it out in camp and go into next year again with low expectations, but with the mindset of improving the Oline and pass rush. Let the chips fall where they may, perhaps landing another top 5 pick the following year and get that illusive franchise QB in the class of 2020. We may suck for another year or two, but it will help us rebuild this team. Fans will probably revolt, but if the Giants can show some improvement and competitiveness then most fans will probably feel a whole lot better.
Here's the LaCanfora article from defenderdawg's post
He's not as polished of a passer as Tua. I don't see anyway that he goes before Tua (assuming Tua even declares). I do like Herbert more than Fromm, though.
If he's a consensus top 5 and a guaranteed millionaire. IF he's rated that high, he goes, any gooey emotional crap will fly out the window when his agent tells him to not be a mush minded child and go get the money instead of risking injury.
RE: RE: We will have a chance for top 5 in 2020 too
The Giants are gonna rebound. I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley and OBJ. And I believe in Eli. If all five stay healthy and focused, they can turn this thing around. It's a work-in-progress from top to bottom so don't be so quick to judge their potential.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
Time to turn it around was last week against Philly and they shit the bed.
It really only makes sense if he doesn't want to play football
Let's say you re right for believing in Eli, It makes no difference, they need the successor.
No doubt, but if they put together enough wins with Eli behind center they won't be getting a top five pick this year or next year. I'm hopeful that Lauletta can be a plus player at the position so I'm not getting all worked up over QB prospects the Giants won't have a shot at.
RE: Here's the LaCanfora article from defenderdawg's post
Said the Browns were going to draft Josh Allen or Sam Darnold with the 1st pick.
He said the Giants were going to take Chubb and then said we wanted to trade down from the 2nd pick.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
Bears were going to lose Kyle Fuller to free agency. He got an extension shortly after.
There are a ton of examples if you look for them. No clue how he continues getting paid for being so bad at it.
Holy moley he's wrong on everything! He was a beat for the Redskins when we signed Lavar Arrington, and I tweeted to him about it asking if it was true and he said there was no truth to it. He is the Tom Quinn of reporters.
RE: RE: We will have a chance for top 5 in 2020 too
The Giants are gonna rebound. I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley and OBJ. And I believe in Eli. If all five stay healthy and focused, they can turn this thing around. It's a work-in-progress from top to bottom so don't be so quick to judge their potential.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
The guy is done. Hes not even a neutral presence on the team at this point, he has a negative impact. If you could just get a dead average QB in there it would be an improvement. The best QBs can carry their team, good QBs elevate their team, average game managers do minimal harm. Eli does harm. He is so bad it is hard for the offense to function.
I love the guy but at some point you just have to accept what the results are telling you. The Giants have basically been a bad team since Super Bowl 46 and Eli is a huge part of it. The one playoff appearance since then was a result of a solid defense and some luck. They didnt score 30 points that entire season.
Its over for Eli Manning. Hes a nice guy, hes had a nice Giants career but its time to send him on his way. They cant win with him, he is not good enough. The idea that anyone would think we can plan on building around Eli NEXT season is astonishing. What else do you need to see?
He is the worst (regular) starting quarterback in football. Excluding someone like Nathan Peterman who has started but isnt really their guy. Who is worse than Eli this year? I cant think of anyone.
RE: RE: RE: We will have a chance for top 5 in 2020 too
Doubt it...would have to mortgage the farm to move up to get him if so
Giants blew their op last draft..it was set up
Whatever you are smokin', pass it down.
If you can't see this is a 3 win team this year and likely just as bad next year when they drop the vets in the offseason, I don't know what to tell you.
This team is going to be bad- Browns level bad- for several years. The next two years will be all about putting younger draftees and young RFAs they bring in and building OL and DL depth- and slowly building around them.
Anyone who thinks the Giants are going to need to trade up in the next several drafts hasn't been paying attention. This team is a top 5, likely top 3- maybe even top pick bad team and will be until at least the 2020 season.
I'm not sure if this is hyperbole, if you don't know what "several" means, or if you're just an idiot.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
That's pretty inaccurate.
McDaniels accepted the job and hired his coaching staff. Then backed out after the fact. It was a huge news story. The coaches he hired are still in Indianapolis.
It's nice that he loves the school,wants to win,and play with his brother.I bet he loves the amenities as well.Does that outweigh being a top pick? I have my doubts
Herbert may be the only QB who goes in the first round. Next year he'll have to compete with the likes of Tua and Fromm. He's probably the better prospect than Fromm, but there's no way he's going to compete with Tua. Tua is one of the most polished passers I've seen in a long time.
NFL Scout quote from 2 weeks ago: I remember going to SC last year and everyone thought Darnold was staying. Anyone saying Oregon (Herbert) is staying or going is just guessing. Ill say this, were scouting him like hell be in the upcoming class."
Herbert may be the only QB who goes in the first round. Next year he'll have to compete with the likes of Tua and Fromm. He's probably the better prospect than Fromm, but there's no way he's going to compete with Tua. Tua is one of the most polished passers I've seen in a long time.
During yesterday's TENN-ALA game, Gaey Danielson said (paraphrasing), "Don't feel so bad Tennessee, you're facing a professional QB. In other sports, this guy is already playing in the professional league."
He's the only QB in a 1 QB draft, he would be nuts to stay in school. I'm sure he would have his reasons but that is a big one right there. Especially with a much strong QB class eligible in 2020.
NFL Scout quote from 2 weeks ago: I remember going to SC last year and everyone thought Darnold was staying. Anyone saying Oregon (Herbert) is staying or going is just guessing. Ill say this, were scouting him like hell be in the upcoming class."
Spot on. (And I mean that). This report is ridiculous. I'm not saying there is no chance it happens, but everyone here should realize that earlier this week this same guy reported that the Giants were going to trade for Derek Carr, and then everyone picked up on it and reported it as a "rumor".
Fact is, as Brugler said, last year the same stuff surrounded Darnold. And now Darnold is in the pros. Yes, Herbert is from Eugene. Yes, his brother is headed there next year (though they have a boatload of TEs and there is no guarantee his brother would even see the field).
Simply put, I have a very, very tough time believing that Herbert will return to school if he has the chance to go to a franchise like the NYG as the #1 or face the prospect of going behind Tua and possibly Fromm next year, which will cost him millions. Not to mention possibly seeing a drop off in play and possible injury. No way. If he could improve his draft stock, sure, I could see it. But the only thing staying in school would do is hurt it.
And, by the way, Herbert DID get hurt his first two years at Oregon. I just can't see him putting his body on the line like that again. Darnold came out even after a subpar year. Herbert will not return to school after what promises to be an excellent year for him. He was great in the second half last night. He plays in a juvenile offense, with a bad supporting cast, and he faced the ninth best pass D in the country - on the road - yesterday.
in 2020, especially if things start getting ugly with the CBA that expires at the end of the 2020 season. I know there likely wont be a lockout but Im guessing the threat of one will get more players to declare early next year.
That is a bad thing for anyone thinking of staying after his year. Your competition increases, and your stock is almost certainly going to take a hit.
This is a good point. I watched most of the Oregon game and I think Hebert can be a servicable QB but I didn't see the messiah out there.
If he's the top QB this year he probably should come out, but there is no way he is better then Bosa. He is a top 10 pick. There are a few excellent players ahead of him. I don't see him cracking the top three barring a trade up by a QB needy team.
If Herbert is projected #1, zero chance he stays at Oregon. THe only way he stays is if he has a crappy year and loses the "elite" label. But if that happens, who cares if he stays or comes out?
speculation at this point. How can anyone know until he makes a statement, which likely won't come until the end of the season? He wouldn't be the first player to stay in school despite being a guaranteed top five pick, but that is rare.
On him. He obviously wants to play with his brother and I can venture to guess he was well off growing up, so money is probably no issue for him. So it's looking like Bosa or Oliver which I love both of them, then go either Daniel Jones or O line in the second
Not so much that about Eli . I'ts obvious that if the right
QB is there they will take him .
Then again if they do Eli is the perfect guy to groom him .
We had a pretty good draft this season the Free Agents have
not panned out like we had hoped .
We can be pretty damn good next season so we suffer this year get another good draft fill some spots with free agency and I hope we make a move or two to get a few more picks .
I think Jones is not just the better QB, but the better prospect for the NFL. I really am not all in on Herbert by any means.
And for those of you annointing Tua as clearly better than Herbert, look at the diffetence in how ooen his track sprinters get. Oregon doesnt have those nor the Bama line. The only player that gets open or makes plays for Herbert is Mitchell.
Im not a big fan of his. But hes the clear number 1 QB in this draft. So thats just bullshit
I don't really like him - am on the Grier bandwagon - but Phil Simms is also high on Hebert. Heard him with Russo on Friday and had nothing but high marks. Said he's seen three games too...
I think Jones is not just the better QB, but the better prospect for the NFL. I really am not all in on Herbert by any means.
And for those of you annointing Tua as clearly better than Herbert, look at the diffetence in how ooen his track sprinters get. Oregon doesnt have those nor the Bama line. The only player that gets open or makes plays for Herbert is Mitchell.
Im not a big fan of his. But hes the clear number 1 QB in this draft. So thats just bullshit
I don't really like him - am on the Grier bandwagon - but Phil Simms is also high on Hebert. Heard him with Russo on Friday and had nothing but high marks. Said he's seen three games too...
bw...I've watched Grier 3 times this year, and am not sure what I am missing. Seems to have a lot of turnovers, mediocre arm strength, solid accuracy...but franchise NFL QB?
What do you see that you like so much?
It all comes down to whether or not an agent can convince him he'll be the #1 pick in the draft. Or top five.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
Doubt it...would have to mortgage the farm to move up to get him if so
Giants blew their op last draft..it was set up
In 2020 he'll most likely be the 3rd QB taken behind Tua & Fromm with no real guarantee on what team he's going to play for.
Is he really going to pass up a chance to go top 3 to a team in the biggest market in the NFL that happens to have skill position players like Saquon, Odell, Shepard, Engram, Gallman? I have a very hard time believing that.
We heard the same noise about Darnold last year and he went pro once he learned that he was likely going near the top of the draft.
This is just a speculative tweet by an "insider" who has to keep coming up with stuff to engage his followers. It really doesn't mean anything at this point.
That is a bad thing for anyone thinking of staying after his year. Your competition increases, and your stock is almost certainly going to take a hit.
Ill believe this when I see it.
Quote:
We suck
Doubt it...would have to mortgage the farm to move up to get him if so
Giants blew their op last draft..it was set up
Whatever you are smokin', pass it down.
If you can't see this is a 3 win team this year and likely just as bad next year when they drop the vets in the offseason, I don't know what to tell you.
This team is going to be bad- Browns level bad- for several years. The next two years will be all about putting younger draftees and young RFAs they bring in and building OL and DL depth- and slowly building around them.
Anyone who thinks the Giants are going to need to trade up in the next several drafts hasn't been paying attention. This team is a top 5, likely top 3- maybe even top pick bad team and will be until at least the 2020 season.
That is a massive amount of money lost from being taken 7 instead of 1. Thats lifechanging money thats lost. Thats money lost that you wish you had if your career doesnt work out for whatever reaso.m that is.
I cant put myself in anyone elses shoes but its a no brainer for me. As much as Id love to play with my brother, Id be much more inclined to want to make sure I can support him if he needed it for the rest of his life.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
We suck
The Giants are gonna rebound. I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley and OBJ. And I believe in Eli. If all five stay healthy and focused, they can turn this thing around. It's a work-in-progress from top to bottom so don't be so quick to judge their potential.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
There is no way more unreliable than LaCanfora. Consistently wrong.
Quote:
that explains the logic in more detail. Link - ( New Window )
There is no way more unreliable than LaCanfora. Consistently wrong.
Yup! Didn't even see who the original post was from. Just saw it was him and immediately said to myself that Herbert will be entering the draft.
We finally bottom out but miss the most exciting QB prospect in recent memory by a year.
Sold our souls for those Super Bowls.
He said the Giants were going to take Chubb and then said we wanted to trade down from the 2nd pick.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
Bears were going to lose Kyle Fuller to free agency. He got an extension shortly after.
There are a ton of examples if you look for them. No clue how he continues getting paid for being so bad at it.
He said the Giants were going to take Chubb and then said we wanted to trade down from the 2nd pick.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
Bears were going to lose Kyle Fuller to free agency. He got an extension shortly after.
There are a ton of examples if you look for them. No clue how he continues getting paid for being so bad at it.
Quote:
We suck
The Giants are gonna rebound. I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley and OBJ. And I believe in Eli. If all five stay healthy and focused, they can turn this thing around. It's a work-in-progress from top to bottom so don't be so quick to judge their potential.
p.s.-- It starts with the MNF game. They've had extra time to prepare, they appear to be relatively healthy (with both Ellison and Engram back?), and they're going against one of the league's weakest defenses indoors. Of course the OL is still an issue and who knows what to expect from the latest iteration.
Haha. Very funny stuff. Eli is toast.
I love the guy but at some point you just have to accept what the results are telling you. The Giants have basically been a bad team since Super Bowl 46 and Eli is a huge part of it. The one playoff appearance since then was a result of a solid defense and some luck. They didnt score 30 points that entire season.
Its over for Eli Manning. Hes a nice guy, hes had a nice Giants career but its time to send him on his way. They cant win with him, he is not good enough. The idea that anyone would think we can plan on building around Eli NEXT season is astonishing. What else do you need to see?
He is the worst (regular) starting quarterback in football. Excluding someone like Nathan Peterman who has started but isnt really their guy. Who is worse than Eli this year? I cant think of anyone.
Quote:
In comment 14137232 TommytheElephant said:
Quote:
We suck
Doubt it...would have to mortgage the farm to move up to get him if so
Giants blew their op last draft..it was set up
Whatever you are smokin', pass it down.
If you can't see this is a 3 win team this year and likely just as bad next year when they drop the vets in the offseason, I don't know what to tell you.
This team is going to be bad- Browns level bad- for several years. The next two years will be all about putting younger draftees and young RFAs they bring in and building OL and DL depth- and slowly building around them.
Anyone who thinks the Giants are going to need to trade up in the next several drafts hasn't been paying attention. This team is a top 5, likely top 3- maybe even top pick bad team and will be until at least the 2020 season.
I'm not sure if this is hyperbole, if you don't know what "several" means, or if you're just an idiot.
He said the Giants were going to take Chubb and then said we wanted to trade down from the 2nd pick.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
Bears were going to lose Kyle Fuller to free agency. He got an extension shortly after.
There are a ton of examples if you look for them. No clue how he continues getting paid for being so bad at it.
Haha, and thats just over a period of like 2 months.
He was reporting that McDaniels would be the Colts HC in the middle of everyone else saying he wasn't going to.
That's pretty inaccurate.
McDaniels accepted the job and hired his coaching staff. Then backed out after the fact. It was a huge news story. The coaches he hired are still in Indianapolis.
We finally bottom out but miss the most exciting QB prospect in recent memory by a year.
Sold our souls for those Super Bowls.
And you would do it again 100 times.
It's nice that he loves the school,wants to win,and play with his brother.I bet he loves the amenities as well.Does that outweigh being a top pick? I have my doubts
We'll probably suck again, then we can get the real prize... TANK FOR TUA! TANK FOR TUA! TANK FOR TUA!
Verified account
@dpbrugler
NFL Scout quote from 2 weeks ago: I remember going to SC last year and everyone thought Darnold was staying. Anyone saying Oregon (Herbert) is staying or going is just guessing. Ill say this, were scouting him like hell be in the upcoming class."
During yesterday's TENN-ALA game, Gaey Danielson said (paraphrasing), "Don't feel so bad Tennessee, you're facing a professional QB. In other sports, this guy is already playing in the professional league."
Verified account
@dpbrugler
NFL Scout quote from 2 weeks ago: I remember going to SC last year and everyone thought Darnold was staying. Anyone saying Oregon (Herbert) is staying or going is just guessing. Ill say this, were scouting him like hell be in the upcoming class."
Spot on. (And I mean that). This report is ridiculous. I'm not saying there is no chance it happens, but everyone here should realize that earlier this week this same guy reported that the Giants were going to trade for Derek Carr, and then everyone picked up on it and reported it as a "rumor".
Fact is, as Brugler said, last year the same stuff surrounded Darnold. And now Darnold is in the pros. Yes, Herbert is from Eugene. Yes, his brother is headed there next year (though they have a boatload of TEs and there is no guarantee his brother would even see the field).
Simply put, I have a very, very tough time believing that Herbert will return to school if he has the chance to go to a franchise like the NYG as the #1 or face the prospect of going behind Tua and possibly Fromm next year, which will cost him millions. Not to mention possibly seeing a drop off in play and possible injury. No way. If he could improve his draft stock, sure, I could see it. But the only thing staying in school would do is hurt it.
And, by the way, Herbert DID get hurt his first two years at Oregon. I just can't see him putting his body on the line like that again. Darnold came out even after a subpar year. Herbert will not return to school after what promises to be an excellent year for him. He was great in the second half last night. He plays in a juvenile offense, with a bad supporting cast, and he faced the ninth best pass D in the country - on the road - yesterday.
That is a bad thing for anyone thinking of staying after his year. Your competition increases, and your stock is almost certainly going to take a hit.
This is a good point. I watched most of the Oregon game and I think Hebert can be a servicable QB but I didn't see the messiah out there.
If he's the top QB this year he probably should come out, but there is no way he is better then Bosa. He is a top 10 pick. There are a few excellent players ahead of him. I don't see him cracking the top three barring a trade up by a QB needy team.
Ill believe this when I see it.
If Herbert is projected #1, zero chance he stays at Oregon. THe only way he stays is if he has a crappy year and loses the "elite" label. But if that happens, who cares if he stays or comes out?
QB is there they will take him .
Then again if they do Eli is the perfect guy to groom him .
We had a pretty good draft this season the Free Agents have
not panned out like we had hoped .
We can be pretty damn good next season so we suffer this year get another good draft fill some spots with free agency and I hope we make a move or two to get a few more picks .
And for those of you annointing Tua as clearly better than Herbert, look at the diffetence in how ooen his track sprinters get. Oregon doesnt have those nor the Bama line. The only player that gets open or makes plays for Herbert is Mitchell.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't really like him - am on the Grier bandwagon - but Phil Simms is also high on Hebert. Heard him with Russo on Friday and had nothing but high marks. Said he's seen three games too...
And for those of you annointing Tua as clearly better than Herbert, look at the diffetence in how ooen his track sprinters get. Oregon doesnt have those nor the Bama line. The only player that gets open or makes plays for Herbert is Mitchell.
not saying much against pac10 competition
Quote:
Im not a big fan of his. But hes the clear number 1 QB in this draft. So thats just bullshit
I don't really like him - am on the Grier bandwagon - but Phil Simms is also high on Hebert. Heard him with Russo on Friday and had nothing but high marks. Said he's seen three games too...
bw...I've watched Grier 3 times this year, and am not sure what I am missing. Seems to have a lot of turnovers, mediocre arm strength, solid accuracy...but franchise NFL QB?
What do you see that you like so much?
I mean this roster is so horrible, there is a good chance they won't even need to tank the next few years if David Gettleman continues his brilliance.