Franchise QB
Generational Player
First Ballot HOF'er
"So put away the anointing oil, OK?"
-Bill Parcells |
The NFL road is long and littered with the corpses of the next best thing. Can we please stop with labeling guys a couple of games into their career.
The labels have been at an all time high this year with where the Giants picked and the decision they made to pass on a QB. Since then, hyperbole has been out of control.
I mentioned this on the Mahomes thread, but 8 games into it, Eli Manning would have been considered a bust. Drew Brees was a bust after 3 seasons. RGIII was a phenom that was going to rule the league for years. Andrew Luck was a 1st ballet HOF'er before he ever took his first snap.
These things take time to sort out. Not to mention that the league has evolved to the point of scorgasms every week where throwing 4 TD's seems the norm.
I feel like removing the labels would lead to more productive discussion. You can talk about whether you think a guy is good without proclaiming that he's going to be playing lights out for 15 straight years. Having film on a guy changes things. Injury can derail a career at any moment. We can discuss Darnold playing well right now in the moment without projecting to 2030. We can talk about Barkley being good right now without saying that he has an NFL lifespan of 3 years and we're wasting it.
It starts to sound like I'm watching ESPN after a while.
Just remember from Saturday that Herbert stocked dropped because of 4 first half passes.
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Of instant analysis, everything is judged by what just happened. Get used to it, or drive yourself insane.
Just remember from Saturday that Herbert stocked dropped because of 4 first half passes.
And Harbaugh should have been fired after not throwing on first down. Or Wilks should have been fired for something else. Can't remember.
We're 8 games into this whole thing. Let's say hypothetically they do play for 10-15 years. A lot can happen. Why do we need to proclaim anybody anything right now?
When you state somebody is a "franchise QB that's going to lead a team for 15 years" you state something that is inarguable because it's your opinion and it can't be quantified. It also opens the door for the back and forth, week to week, "see I told you he's great", "see I told you he sucks" threads (been guilty of it myself).
Unless you can tell the future, and if so, I could use some lotto numbers for tomorrow night.
In my time watching nfl football I have not seen a player with his size do the things on the field like he does.
The amazing start, sudden stop, then able to explode. At 230 lbs is just amazing. However it doesn't stop there. He also uses his size for incredible power. Seems to me players are amazingly agile, but lack power. Or players have amazing power, but lack the ability. He does both which is amazing. I haven't even talked about his ability as a receiver, or his incredible vision, or seemingly sixth sense where the defenders are coming from.
I know it's so far another crap season, but I can't get enough of this player.
particularly when you are talking about a category with only 32 data points.
Being the 10th best out of 32 puts you right in the meaty part of the bell curve and is squarely average.
no idea why anyone gets to bothered, butt-hurt, or annoyed when someone says Mahomes is a franchise QB or Barkley is a generational talent.
No one is putting either in the HOF as rookies or first year starters, but explaining their potential by using these terms is fine and understood for the bulk of the functioning population.
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In comment 14138687 Joey in VA said:
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Of instant analysis, everything is judged by what just happened. Get used to it, or drive yourself insane.
Just remember from Saturday that Herbert stocked dropped because of 4 first half passes.
Can't remember.
The one constant in BBI.
Ding ding ding.
I often ask my friends if they can imagine what WWII would have been like with the internet, 24 hour news and social media. Our country would have been torn apart the day we hit the beaches of Normandy (Probably before that). We wouldn't have been able to handle it.
no idea why anyone gets to bothered, butt-hurt, or annoyed when someone says Mahomes is a franchise QB or Barkley is a generational talent.
No one is putting either in the HOF as rookies or first year starters, but explaining their potential by using these terms is fine and understood for the bulk of the functioning population.
The bulk of the functioning population are morons, which is why ESPN has good ratings.
AP, Cam Newton, Khalil Mack, Carson Wentz, Aaron Donald, Erik Flowers (well...maybe not the last one:)
They come into the league and they play like they're going to be in the HOF from the jump.
Mahomes seems like he's just that good - at least in the system he's been asked to perform in.
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"everybody needs to chill with the labels" maybe the people who get upset with labels need to chill.
no idea why anyone gets to bothered, butt-hurt, or annoyed when someone says Mahomes is a franchise QB or Barkley is a generational talent.
No one is putting either in the HOF as rookies or first year starters, but explaining their potential by using these terms is fine and understood for the bulk of the functioning population.
The bulk of the functioning population are morons, which is why ESPN has good ratings.
No disagreement, but why let it bother you? And contrary to the curmudgeon's opinions, this is not new. Maybe the phrasing changes, but someone referenced Parcells above, Parcells said this in the 90's (let's not put him in Canton yet), the tendency to immediately proclaim a young "star" potential or ceiling has been around since the written word.
maybe it's more in your face now because of social media, but this is hardly a "welcome to 2018" phenomenon.
I genuinely have no idea why anyone would care about this stuff. It has zero impact on anything.
Its ridiculous.
Different sport but I was watching a story on the Eric Lindros story. I forget who it was but he had the perfect line for this.
This is suppossed to be the next "Gretzky"?, he isn't even the first "Lindros"!
Some comic relief, a Jets fan told me that Johnathan Vilma was the next "LT"
AP, Cam Newton, Khalil Mack, Carson Wentz, Aaron Donald, Erik Flowers (well...maybe not the last one:)
They come into the league and they play like they're going to be in the HOF from the jump.
Mahomes seems like he's just that good - at least in the system he's been asked to perform in.
A lot of guys have looked absolutely great in that system. I mentioned this on the Mahomes thread, Alex Smith threw for 4000 yards, 26 TD's, and only 5 INT's last year in that system, after never throwing over 3500 yards or 20 TD's in his entire 12 year career prior. Donovan McNabb was incredible in it. Andy Reid also had a knack for making bum QB's look incredible enough in spot duty to turn them into 2nd round picks for the Eagles in trades (AJ Feeley anyone?).
Mahomes looks fantastic right now. But we can say that, and talk about all the great things he's doing, without saying he's going to do it for 15 years. IMO, those sort of projections water down the conversation.
Well, in my generation I watched OJ Simpson, Eric Dickerson, Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Tony Dorsett, Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell, Marshall Faulk, Emmit Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, Marcus Allen and Herschel Walker (who did I leave out?).
Can we stop calling Barkley a generational talent please?
I always just think back on people claiming the Eli-Rivers trade was a colossal fail as late as 2007.
We have literally no idea who, 15 years from now, will be looked back up on as having the best career of the 5 1st rd QBs. NO IDEA.
I guess when we say generational talent we mean top-7.
There's a lot of disappointment in the Giants right now, and I think we all have our different ways of coping with that.
There's a lot of disappointment in the Giants right now, and I think we all have our different ways of coping with that.
It exists with Barkley as a Giant, with the label "generational player" included.
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
Right. It's just a buzzword. Right now, he's a really good player that is performing to expectations. That's it. There is no need for the generational player label.
By the same token, we should be able to comment and even criticize our legendary players for their current play without someone insisting that we're haters or bringing up their history from long ago.
Neither one of these things happen with consistency, but that's the nature of a forum like this. I think of it like the corner bar where not all discussions are entirely rational and logic based. Pick the people you like best to hang out with here and try to ignore the rest.
But this has nothing to really do with that.
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
I won’t boger addressing the Beckham bit because you want an argument. But on Barkley it’s pretty damn clear that he is the best I’ve seen in years at the RB position. That wouldn’t change if we were 6-0 or 0-6. He’s that good and I find it weird that you have an issue or call out people who think that. Us struggling to score has nothing to do with Barkley, they are two entirely separate conversations.
no idea why anyone gets to bothered, butt-hurt, or annoyed when someone says Mahomes is a franchise QB or Barkley is a generational talent.
No one is putting either in the HOF as rookies or first year starters, but explaining their potential by using these terms is fine and understood for the bulk of the functioning population.
+1
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It was a label frequently bestowed on Beckham despite him never even clearly being the best WR in the league. I think it just makes people feel good to call him or Barkley generational because the team sucks so horribly.
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
I won’t boger addressing the Beckham bit because you want an argument. But on Barkley it’s pretty damn clear that he is the best I’ve seen in years at the RB position. That wouldn’t change if we were 6-0 or 0-6. He’s that good and I find it weird that you have an issue or call out people who think that. Us struggling to score has nothing to do with Barkley, they are two entirely separate conversations.
But he's not better than Gurley, Bell, Zeke, Kamara... All these guys are great. That's the point. Gurley is a damn freak of nature as well. Just because you haven't seen him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Barkley is great. We all agree. But he is not on another level from the other top backs in the game.
I don't need to cope, i'm perfectly fine, my life doesn't revolve around the success of the Giants. I'm unaffected by us sucking.
I call him an extraordinary player because that's exactly what he is. If the Giants being 1-5 keeps you from seeing that or you get annoyed by a buzzword, well then...
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In comment 14138933 Go Terps said:
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It was a label frequently bestowed on Beckham despite him never even clearly being the best WR in the league. I think it just makes people feel good to call him or Barkley generational because the team sucks so horribly.
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
I won’t boger addressing the Beckham bit because you want an argument. But on Barkley it’s pretty damn clear that he is the best I’ve seen in years at the RB position. That wouldn’t change if we were 6-0 or 0-6. He’s that good and I find it weird that you have an issue or call out people who think that. Us struggling to score has nothing to do with Barkley, they are two entirely separate conversations.
But he's not better than Gurley, Bell, Zeke, Kamara... All these guys are great. That's the point. Gurley is a damn freak of nature as well. Just because you haven't seen him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Barkley is great. We all agree. But he is not on another level from the other top backs in the game.
Bell isn't even playing right now so he shouldn't even be in this discussion. Barkley is having a better season than Elliott and plays behind a polar opposite OLine.
Kamara brings a solid argument to the table but I'm still taking Barkley over him as he should be more durable and again, he's producing in an offense with no OL and no QB. What are all these guys doing on this Giants team? We already know what Barkley is doing but i'm highly skeptical that others would have similar success. Ditto for Gurley who was fairly ordinary to start his career on a bad team.
So yeah, I'm fine calling him the best RB in the NFL right now. But I guess i'm just coping.
Let me tell you something, I knew LT was generational talent, HoF level ability, franchise defender, etc after one season. After eight games.
Sometimes it’s so clear that more time isn’t necessary to underscore the obvious.
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In comment 14138962 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 14138933 Go Terps said:
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It was a label frequently bestowed on Beckham despite him never even clearly being the best WR in the league. I think it just makes people feel good to call him or Barkley generational because the team sucks so horribly.
You would think that a generational player would only come around once a generation...but we actually have two at the same time on the same side of the ball! Forget the fact that despite that we struggle to score 20 points a game...
I won’t boger addressing the Beckham bit because you want an argument. But on Barkley it’s pretty damn clear that he is the best I’ve seen in years at the RB position. That wouldn’t change if we were 6-0 or 0-6. He’s that good and I find it weird that you have an issue or call out people who think that. Us struggling to score has nothing to do with Barkley, they are two entirely separate conversations.
But he's not better than Gurley, Bell, Zeke, Kamara... All these guys are great. That's the point. Gurley is a damn freak of nature as well. Just because you haven't seen him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Barkley is great. We all agree. But he is not on another level from the other top backs in the game.
Bell isn't even playing right now so he shouldn't even be in this discussion. Barkley is having a better season than Elliott and plays behind a polar opposite OLine.
Kamara brings a solid argument to the table but I'm still taking Barkley over him as he should be more durable and again, he's producing in an offense with no OL and no QB. What are all these guys doing on this Giants team? We already know what Barkley is doing but i'm highly skeptical that others would have similar success. Ditto for Gurley who was fairly ordinary to start his career on a bad team.
So yeah, I'm fine calling him the best RB in the NFL right now. But I guess i'm just coping.
haha, coping.
Gurley was never ordinary. His second year was a bust, however, this is true. It's close with all these guys, that's all I am saying. And if there is a greatest of this generation, right now it is Leveon Bell.
In today's day and age, a lot of these coaches and GM's put a label on a player after they draft them and it become fodder for the media to play with.
"Touched by the hand of God" and "JPP of tight ends" comes to mind pretty quick.
We used to say, you can never judge whether a QB is going to be good or not until the end of their 3rd year. That was a general NFL rule of thumb.
Yeah, everybody was looking for one, but there were only ever a handful at any given time. Eli became ours, but nobody was truly sold hook, line, and sinker until after 2007.