Anthony DiComo @AnthonyDiComo
3m
Source: Chaim Bloom, Doug Melvin and Brodie Van Wagenen are the Mets' three GM finalists. They will conduct call-back interviews beginning tomorrow. All other candidates are out.
It's easy. The team already decided on Melvin, and they are throwing off the scent by having three completely different candidates. This way, when they do hire Melvin, they can say they did their due diligence in pursuing candidates from different backgrounds.
1 - disagree with Laws assertion that having different style finalists is a troubling sign. To me it actually shows some openmindedness and if these were the 3 best candidates Im glad they didnt force fit a type - especially knowing it would have been forced by Fred/Jeff. I wouldnt want any owner of a team I root for to force fit a type vs best candidate. Giants had a few diff types of head coaches as finalists.
2 - out of all the candidates these seem like the strongest of the types. Melvin by far the least scary old school candidate and Bloom the most exciting young candidate. Could they end up going with some combo of the 2?
Now not to get negative - the biggest hurdle in this entire process is still to come, in the form of whether or not the new guy actually gets the clean house or whether they are forced to keep the 3 amigos, especially Omar.
1 - disagree with Laws assertion that having different style finalists is a troubling sign. To me it actually shows some openmindedness and if these were the 3 best candidates Im glad they didnt force fit a type - especially knowing it would have been forced by Fred/Jeff. I wouldnt want any owner of a team I root for to force fit a type vs best candidate. Giants had a few diff types of head coaches as finalists.
2 - out of all the candidates these seem like the strongest of the types. Melvin by far the least scary old school candidate and Bloom the most exciting young candidate. Could they end up going with some combo of the 2?
Now not to get negative - the biggest hurdle in this entire process is still to come, in the form of whether or not the new guy actually gets the clean house or whether they are forced to keep the 3 amigos, especially Omar.
Bloom isn't leaving TB to be anything less than "the man" so no I don't see any way both Melvin and Bloom are the hire. They already have 2 meddling owners, Omar, Ricco, Ricciardi.
Doug Melvin admitted the game had passed him by THREE YEARS AGO, so I think it's perfectly fine to say he's old school. Link - ( New Window )
its so mets that he is a finalist. I guess there thought process is with the wilpons, omar, ricco, and JP they probably believe Melvin can be the face of a terrible run front office.
The man literally said the job is too much for him and he is a finalist for our job...just think about that for 2 seconds to sum up the disaster that is the mets organization.
of the three Finalist - which of the candidates do you think WANTS it the most?
BVW probably wants it most because this seems like a "dream" job situation. No way will he be making more money as Mets gm vs. sports agent. Melvin probably wants the easy paycheck.
@NYPost_Mets
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I have talked to several people connected with the organization who believe Fred Wilpon will go the conservative route and pick Melvin, because the Mets' last "outside the box" pick, Mickey Callaway, has backfired somewhat.
How about this report from Puma? Are you kidding me?
I have talked to several people connected with the organization who believe Fred Wilpon will go the conservative route and pick Melvin, because the Mets' last "outside the box" pick, Mickey Callaway, has backfired somewhat.
And man that article from Melvin is damning. And what about his record is impressive? Only the Mets...
as if manager job has anything to do with the GM position. Two completely different jobs, two different skill-sets, and how much was Mickey doing what the FO wanted him to do anyway.
Mets could hire Melvin. He admitted himself that the game had passed him by years ago and then stepped aside. Now, he's going to step in and try to take over full time in NY? That doesn't make any sense.
is an 81 year old man. For all he knows, this could be his last hire. If it is, he probably is thinking, if i'm going to lose, i'm going to lose on my terms rather than have regrets. Unfortunately for the fans, it's clear as day that this is short-sighted. I actually don't disagree with Fred completely on the analytics part--just because I think it is so saturated at this point in baseball -- there is not that much more that can be discerned than is already available in public data. But I want Van Wagenan because I think relationships are going to be a big part of the next wave of baseball. Which is why I like Omar scouting in the Dominican, he's a great relationship guy. I think the data is all already there. It will probably be Melvin because he is the safe choice. But he is going to be a complete YES man which f'ing sucks.
Fred has given no reason not to believe that story
That he doesn't want analytics people because he doesn't know how to talk to them. So it will be Melvin so then in March he can stand around behind the cage and tell Melvin how player X reminds him of someone from the 1952 Brooklyn Dodgers.
Mets could hire Melvin. He admitted himself that the game had passed him by years ago and then stepped aside. Now, he's going to step in and try to take over full time in NY? That doesn't make any sense.
because if Minaya is helping run the show (which we know he is and the Wilpons love him). Why not pick a for show older GM so that people can still be hands on like Minaya behind the scenes and possibly eventually take over.
If Bloom (a widely regarded future star GM in the making) took the job he would want full control or why wouldn't he wait for a position (which he would eventually get) with full control.
This screams mets though, they have had Melvins old a** pegged before the GM search even started.
Is the epitome of incompetence. Only they could have taken a WS team of 2015 and turn it into dogshit in less than 2 years. So yes they will fuck this up to by picking Melvin.
Chaim Bloom is "outside the box"? Was the Rays director of baseball operations 7 years ago senior vice president of baseball operations the past 3. How in the world is this similar to Callaway? #Mets
Chaim Bloom is "outside the box"? Was the Rays director of baseball operations 7 years ago senior vice president of baseball operations the past 3. How in the world is this similar to Callaway? #Mets
would love someone from the Rays. They are cheaper than the Mets and more successful. Would seem to be the type of guy that the cheap/broke ass Wilpons would covet.
Bloom would be a first-time gm. In that way he'd be a similar hire to any first-time person in any new role that has a different set of responsibilities and an increased level of responsibility (like Callaway last year). There are risks that go along with any rookie that can be lesser with experienced hires. Experienced hires come with a different set of risks because most who are job hunting are usually doing so for a reason.
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
Bloom would be a first-time gm. In that way he'd be a similar hire to any first-time person in any new role that has a different set of responsibilities and an increased level of responsibility (like Callaway last year). There are risks that go along with any rookie that can be lesser with experienced hires. Experienced hires come with a different set of risks because most who are job hunting are usually doing so for a reason.
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
The FO already includes 2 former major league GM's, it's silly to think Bloom would have trouble in this role given this "support"
RE: RE: The writers are misusing the phrase inside the box
Bloom would be a first-time gm. In that way he'd be a similar hire to any first-time person in any new role that has a different set of responsibilities and an increased level of responsibility (like Callaway last year). There are risks that go along with any rookie that can be lesser with experienced hires. Experienced hires come with a different set of risks because most who are job hunting are usually doing so for a reason.
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
The FO already includes 2 former major league GM's, it's silly to think Bloom would have trouble in this role given this "support"
The 2 former GM's are counterproductive. Managing up has been the single biggest challenge in this organization due to meddlesome owners and biggest area of concern hiring a first time GM. It was a challenge for Sandy and he's got as much gravitas as any executive in the game. That's not to say I wouldn't hire Bloom, he's my favorite remaining candidate, but it's just a fact that there's more risk for the mets hiring a first time exec bc their management hierarchy is so unstable.
I have regular dialogue with all 30 teams," Van Wagenen said in a statement. "These conversations share a central theme; how can I help make the team better?"
"In my role as an agent, my solution is to create opportunities for players to be successful both on and off the field. By creating partnerships between players and teams, the interests of all parties can be aligned. If the players are able to reach their peak potential, the fans will be rewarded with a competitive team that can contend for championships year in and year out. The Clubs benefit with compelling, sustainable and profitable entertainment franchises; and the players are rewarded with a platform to realize their childhood dreams while receiving compensation consistent with their tremendous talents."
"My conversations with the Mets continue to be organic. I believe baseball is better when the Mets are competitive and successful. That success is better for the fans, players, and the economy of the sport. As Jeff and Fred continue their search for a new head of baseball operations, the players, fans and entire organization will be motivated to have a leader with the skills and commitment to win. If the Wilpon's believe I am that person, we will have that conversation."
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
He has that without moving and Bloom is going to be a sought after target until he gets a GM job. I could see the Mets trying it with someone like BVW if they are gunshy about hiring him without any front office experience
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
He almost certainly would not. He's one step away from the GM role in TB and has interviewed for now 3 GM's spots.
@MarcCarig
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Doug Melvin needed to use this conference call to showcase that hes not a dinosaur. So, he said his first stat guy was a pecan farmer and then name-dropped that bastion of forward thinking, John Smoltz. I cant decide if this was folksy charm or just a total misread.
Melvin on the Mets' interest in him: "If there were other opportunities - and I'm not talking to anybody else - but if there were other opportunities I probably would not have been as interested."
2:19 PM - 23 Oct 2018
Which team is in worse shape
gmenrule : 9:39 am : link : reply
the Giants or the Mets ? Nothing but gray skies for 2-3 years at a minimum for Giants. Probably longer for the Mets.
Look at both team's rosters. The Mets are light years ahead of the Giants both at the major league and minor league level. The only good player the SFGiants have right now is really Mad Bumgarner. Who it would behoove them to move this off-season.
The Giants franchise is in very very bad shape, they have almost zero talent at the ML level, and they have an Elite Catching prospect (Joey Bart) and that's it. It's going to be a 4-5 year rebuild for them. They have stupid contracts in Longoria, Posey, Cueto, Crawford, Belt, and Samardjiza. They are in terrible shape.
Mets actually aren't in bad shape. They have some difficult questions on players to sign, such as Wheeler and deGrom. But they have young talent and really need 1 major core player (I.e. machado) and a bullpen and I think they can compete. .
I hate using that phrase but holy shit does it fit in this instance. Complete and utter disaster in the making isn't even the right way to describe what this would be. It is beyond that.
Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
@jaseidler
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what you definitely want to have to do is have to clarify the statements of your 66-year-old GM-in-waiting on his public interview conference call because he came across as confused and out of touch
Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
We will hear if Omar is still employed. And Ricco. And JP. And if the new GM gets to bring in some new names or add analytics people etc. To me the answer to those questions are almost as important as the GM hire itself - the new GM should get to start fresh from top to bottom. But if Shecky's hints are accurate I guess we already know that's not happening.
Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
We will hear if Omar is still employed. And Ricco. And JP. And if the new GM gets to bring in some new names or add analytics people etc. To me the answer to those questions are almost as important as the GM hire itself - the new GM should get to start fresh from top to bottom. But if Shecky's hints are accurate I guess we already know that's not happening.
I will be absolutely STUNNED if Omar and Ricco don't return. Ricciardi isn't even usually "on-site" so his return means very little. Omar has helped pick the candidates, he's coming back.
Melvin will be allowed to bring "someone" with him. He's not getting rid of who is here. Ricciardi I could see leaving. But Omar 100% returning and Ricco 99%.
in 13 seasons as Brewers GM, the team was over .500 four times and 90 or more just twice.
I don't want Melvin, under any circumstances, but for comparison in 8 seasons (including 2018) as Mets GM, Sandy's Mets were over .500 twice and never won more than 90 games.
Melvin seems consistent with that production.
Melvin also joined Milwaukee when they won < 80 games 9 of prev 10 yrs
including winning under 70 games in 5 of those years years (twice under 60, including the year before he was hired). He turned them around and I believe he did so with a pretty middle of the road payroll. Drafted Weeks, Gallardo, Cain, Braun, Brantley, Lucroy, Khris Davis, Haniger. I prefer Bloom but I don't hate Melvin - especially if he can poach some young talent for the FO from elsewhere. His comments are bizarre but I can't imagine the Mets could screw up the basics of hiring a guy who actually wants the job. Actually I guess I can.
If Omar is 100% staying that's extremely troubling to me bc of his direct relationship with ownership and as much as I expect it (bc mets) I'm going to cross my fingers until there's an announcement. I'm less worried about Ricco.
Still feel this team has a young nucleus, can compete with a few moves, and has a promising farm again. Let's get the offseason started and get the front office in place. Whoever it is.
If its Bloom it will be an overly positive reaction. Same as Callaway until we got one week into the season and everyone was ready to string him up. Bloom's first bad move, and the shine will be gone in two seconds. If Melvin's the hire, everyone will want to burn down the stadium and it likely won't be warranted.
Some rough comments or not over the last few years, he's probably not terrible.
i'm mixed on him vs. Bloom and see both sides I guess.
The side I'm most worried about isn't either of them, it's ownership, so I'm curious to see how much autonomy either of them gets to truly change things.
1 underrated fact about Melvin looking at his time in Milwaukee, I didn't realize how low their payrolls were. That's a pretty interesting common thread between him and Bloom that probably isn't getting as much attention as it should as a further indictment of how the Wilpons plan to continue running things here.
love to see Melvin bring Matt Arnold with him but I doubt Arnold is going to wait 2-3 years nor do I think the Mets would give him a significant raise.
-Should also be noted Melvin noted the analytics staff was thin, great job by Fred for rejecting Sandy's requests for help
not good enough for me. I want to hire someone who has a chance to be a top 5 GM who can be here for over a decade. A mediocre hire can set us back another half decade or more. Give how little success Alderson had here in 9 years, I think Met fans deserve something better.
Look at the operations the Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Astros are all running. We need to set something up to compete with that. I'm worried that Melvin will just try to sign a few band-aids in the offseason and we'll hope for everything to break right.
Hopefully ownership does the right thing here for once. The GM is so much more important than the manager that it cannot be overstated.
love to see Melvin bring Matt Arnold with him but I doubt Arnold is going to wait 2-3 years nor do I think the Mets would give him a significant raise.
-Should also be noted Melvin noted the analytics staff was thin, great job by Fred for rejecting Sandy's requests for help
It's crazy that Fred thinks that Sandy relied too much on analytics. He gave Alderson a bare bones staff (which Alderson ignored anyway when making the awful Vargas and Bruce deals).
What a mess. We're going to need a smart guy with a lot of energy to get a functioning organization running.
Top teams by analytic staffs:
Yankees (20)
Dodgers (20)
Astros (15)
Braves (15)
Brewers (11)
Lowest division winner was Red Sox with 6
Mets - 3
Payroll Rankings:
Red Sox #1 (228m)
Dodgers #3 (200m)
Cubs #4 (195m)
Yankees #6 (175m)
Astros #9 (163m)
Brewers (#22 - 108m) and Braves (#18 - 130m) lowest of winners
Mets - (#12 pre-insurance 150m, with insurance probably closer to 100m)
They need to invest more resources on the field and in the front office period. The resource part of the equation is just as important as who they hire to be GM.
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.
*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) AA 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
9) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
10) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
11) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
12) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
13) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
14) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
15) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
16) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
17) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
18) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
19) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
his prospect status can certainly be discounted by his defense, but there are very few minor league hitters poised to step into the majors next year with a bigger immediate impact.
Why he gets so overlooked is beyond me.
Does he have warts, of course every player does.
But he canhe also do some things only a few humans on this planet can do? You bet your ass.
Not the second coming of Bonds no one expects that. But there is a potential plus player there, yet no one wants to believe it.
According to people in rival front offices who know both men, the "old school/new school" labels are not only demeaning to both Bloom, 35, and Melvin, 66, but are inaccurate. In reality, both men occupy a different space in the vast middle ground where most successful executives reside....
A Brewers source said that Melvin would sometimes override his scouts' recommendation and make a decision based on analytics, and sometimes would ignore the data to listen to his scouts -- as any competent GM would....
But one label that is not fair to affix to Bloom is "analytics guy." He's a baseball guy -- like Doug Melvin.
According to people in rival front offices who know both men, the "old school/new school" labels are not only demeaning to both Bloom, 35, and Melvin, 66, but are inaccurate. In reality, both men occupy a different space in the vast middle ground where most successful executives reside....
A Brewers source said that Melvin would sometimes override his scouts' recommendation and make a decision based on analytics, and sometimes would ignore the data to listen to his scouts -- as any competent GM would....
But one label that is not fair to affix to Bloom is "analytics guy." He's a baseball guy -- like Doug Melvin.
Link - ( New Window )
Honestly, I like things about both Bloom (my preference) and Melvin (who seems like a competent and safe pick). All things considered I will be happy with either - IF (big if) - they get autonomy and resources to bring the entire org from the stone ages into it's rightful place as a modern team in a big market.
I want a top 10 payroll (without including insurance $), an investment in an analytics team, and a few FO hires poached from around baseball to help fill in whatever weaknesses the final choice might have. None of that is unreasonable for a profitable organization trying to compete for the playoffs in a major market. It's the bare minimum that should be expected.
drafts during the time where Melvin was in Milwaukee were inarguably were better than the Brewers during Melvin's tenure and the Mets drafts weren't that amazing to begin with
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Sounds like Chaim Bloom, who interviewed yesterday for the Mets GM opening, will not be holding a conference call with reporters. He is expected to issue a statement, as did Brodie Van Wagenen earlier in the week.
Please just say you are assuming that's the pick and that Bloom has a chance.
Shecky has hinted at Melvin all along and the Mets sycophants like Martino have been putting out Melvin puff pieces for 2 days now. Given todays Bloom news, it's a done deal.
draft record under Melvin was awful. He's going to be the pick but I'm extremely underwhelmed.
Was it though? His payrolls were bottom of the league so I assume draft spending was similarly low so there's a curve he needs to be graded on since most of his career was in the era where the rules strongly penalized teams that didn't spend $.
I know their current major league roster doesn't have a lot of homegrown production but he did draft Braun and Cain. And Lucroy, who brought them back all the pieces they dealt for Yelich. He also drafted Jeffress and Woodruff, and traded Gomez for Hader and Santana. Stearns obviously deserves a lot of credit for where they are and acquiring/reacquiring Cain/Yelich but he also dealt Khris Davis (who was drafted by Melvin).
Honestly just thinking about the deadline deals he was involved in the past few years makes me feel relatively at ease if he's the selection - Gomez trade agreed to with mets for Wheeler/Flores, gomez trade with Hou, Lucroy deal with indians that would have brought back Mejia, deal with Texas that got Brinson near his peak. Those all would have been good deals.
How tone deaf can they be? They really could careless for their fanbase. I can't follow arcarsenal but the team in the Bronx treats their customers so much better than we are. Unfortunately being a fan is a lifetime commitment.
You had the opportunity to change the team's perception, join the current MLB way of running a team, and you bring in this guy who has no track record of success and admitted the game has passed him by 3 years ago.
draft record under Melvin was awful. He's going to be the pick but I'm extremely underwhelmed.
Was it though? His payrolls were bottom of the league so I assume draft spending was similarly low so there's a curve he needs to be graded on since most of his career was in the era where the rules strongly penalized teams that didn't spend $.
I know their current major league roster doesn't have a lot of homegrown production but he did draft Braun and Cain. And Lucroy, who brought them back all the pieces they dealt for Yelich. He also drafted Jeffress and Woodruff, and traded Gomez for Hader and Santana. Stearns obviously deserves a lot of credit for where they are and acquiring/reacquiring Cain/Yelich but he also dealt Khris Davis (who was drafted by Melvin).
Honestly just thinking about the deadline deals he was involved in the past few years makes me feel relatively at ease if he's the selection - Gomez trade agreed to with mets for Wheeler/Flores, gomez trade with Hou, Lucroy deal with indians that would have brought back Mejia, deal with Texas that got Brinson near his peak. Those all would have been good deals.
What does payroll have to do with the draft? Their draft record was awful. Dems the facts. Go back and look at their drafts under Melvin during Sandy's time here and compare
2011
Top 3 picks Jungmann, Lopez, Gagnon. Of players they drafted and signed 1.1 fWAR (Jungmann was #1)
2012 Mitch Hanigar, #2 Brent Suter (no other player has produced even 1.0 fWAR)
2013 0 big leaguers
2014 Brandon Woodruff (1.0 fWAR career)
2015 0 big leaguers (Hanhold has appeared in a game but no actual big leaguers yet)
...there isn't a PR person or someone who is 2018-aware (I am sorry I am not sure how to articulate this because I know fans do not run a team), but someone can't whisper in Fred and Jeff's ear and say "this hire is going to alienate our fanbase".
also be noted multiple teams wanted to speak to Stearns (including the Mets), the Giants were denied permission. Nobody else spoke to Melvin so one can only assume....
This the best guy they could get? I wont rehash all the negatives but he's a 66 year old man who admitted he longer had the energy for the job 3 years ago!
This falls all on the Wilpons. Either the top guys don't want to work for these clowns or they don't know how to identify them. But its on them.
This should be a very attractive job. Talent on the ML roster, decent farm system and its NYC. We know what Melvin is. How can they not find anyone better? What a joke.
Just wait until they resign Reyes, bring back Familia and sign some other bargain bin player...
he drafted Lorenzo Cain and the players that brought back Yelich (not to mention Hader).
And bonus $/going over slot absolutely is a huge factor in draft results. Moreso before the new rules but that was the majority of his time as GM. I don't know what their numbers were in that regard but my guess is if the spending tracked as low as their payroll spending it was towards the bottom of the league.
was by far the best interview and had the best vision for the Mets of all the dozen candidates they interviewed. He really must've blown them away to overcome his awful drafting in MIL and him stepping down due to age in MIL (he was forced out/fired if you read MIL sources) 3 years ago.
These must've been great interviews! The only other explanation is that the rest of the interviews were a sham and Wilpon wanted Melvin all along.
It's hard to comprehend how the Mets knew they needed
he drafted Lorenzo Cain and the players that brought back Yelich (not to mention Hader).
And bonus $/going over slot absolutely is a huge factor in draft results. Moreso before the new rules but that was the majority of his time as GM. I don't know what their numbers were in that regard but my guess is if the spending tracked as low as their payroll spending it was towards the bottom of the league.
So you don't think he should be judged on his most recent work where HE admitted he was probably a bit long in the tooth for the job? Where were teams clamoring to hire him c'mon. THis is a retread in every possible way, Bud Selig approved the hire, sounds familiar.
Melvin on stepping down: My gut feeling tells me its time to give Mark (Attanasio) the opportunity to look over the next generation of general managers.
Now he's ready to rock! and the Brewers are now a contender with a ... next generation GM.
"According to Adam McCalvy of MLB.com, the Brewers will target younger candidates with knowledge of analytics. That would all but rule out recently fired Detroit Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski. While the Brewers will surely look at outside hires, the next GM could already have a position with the team. Ray Montgomery is currently the scouting director for Milwaukee and is someone who is highly respected in Major League Baseball. At 46 years old, he would fit Attanasios youth requirement, and his knowledge of not only scouting but analytics as well is impressive.
"
and criticize GM's for the draft, does anyone know how involved the average GM actually is in making the draft decisions?
Is it like the NFL where they are highly involved or is it less than that?
Either way, the way the MLB draft and getting from the minors to the majors works if Melvin is the GM and he drafts high school kids he could be dead before we have a solid evaluation of his draft(s).
His FA signings I think are far more immediate and relevant to the current core than any drafts he presides over.
And I don't know if those are good or bad, only pointing out focusing on his drafts is less relevant to the success of this current core.
and criticize GM's for the draft, does anyone know how involved the average GM actually is in making the draft decisions?
Is it like the NFL where they are highly involved or is it less than that?
Either way, the way the MLB draft and getting from the minors to the majors works if Melvin is the GM and he drafts high school kids he could be dead before we have a solid evaluation of his draft(s).
His FA signings I think are far more immediate and relevant to the current core than any drafts he presides over.
And I don't know if those are good or bad, only pointing out focusing on his drafts is less relevant to the success of this current core.
Omar was heavily involved in the draft. Sandy off-loaded much of the draft stuff to DePo while he was here. Their more recent "setup" is less clear. They lost Becerra (a major, major loss) so they continue to hemorrhage front office talent.
of this really matters if as expected all of Omar, Ricco, Ricciardi all remain. Why would it? Successful teams have 2 "involved" owners and 4 other decision makers? lol
@keithlaw
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This is the most reasonable criticism of Melvin out there. The game and the job of GM have changed at an unprecedented pace in the last five years.keithlaw added,
Kate Feldman
Mets also said all of the finalists would speak to the media. Then... only Melvin was made available. BVW explained there was a conflict of interest but even the Mets own "rules" were followed.
...there isn't a PR person or someone who is 2018-aware (I am sorry I am not sure how to articulate this because I know fans do not run a team), but someone can't whisper in Fred and Jeff's ear and say "this hire is going to alienate our fanbase".
of this really matters if as expected all of Omar, Ricco, Ricciardi all remain. Why would it? Successful teams have 2 "involved" owners and 4 other decision makers? lol
How about Jeff's quote that it will be up the new GM if he wants to keep them, but he would like to. Just come out and say those guys are staying. No GM is cleaning house with the guys the owners are close with.
Fred is a joke but his son may be a bigger clown.The guy just oozes doushebag.
RE: He was there for a decade before those 4 drafts
Gimenez and Mauricio all look like "hits" in the sense scouts like them and they were good investments. Becerra leaving really hurts. Hopefully they have someone strong planned to replace him. We have 5 IFA in the Mets top 19 prospects over at NYFS and that doesn't include Rosario and another 2-3 should land in the top 30.
Gimenez and Mauricio all look like "hits" in the sense scouts like them and they were good investments. Becerra leaving really hurts. Hopefully they have someone strong planned to replace him. We have 5 IFA in the Mets top 19 prospects over at NYFS and that doesn't include Rosario and another 2-3 should land in the top 30.
Do you have any confidence that they do or will find someone? Does Melvin have those types of connections?
My ignorant guess is that Minaya is going to step up and take on more of Beccera's old role. I wouldn't be shocked if this was in the cards already and led to Becerra looking for opportunities elsewhere (and the fact that Boston is an elite organization too). Who knows though. Baseless speculation on my part.
he drafted Lorenzo Cain and the players that brought back Yelich (not to mention Hader).
Key isnt the players whoGOT them Yelich. But who GOT them Yelich... my favorite non Mets player for the past five years...
I was right there with you wanting Yelich bad and don't disagree that Stearns deserves the credit, but I'd hope every GM in baseball has learned that lesson to some degree, and as I said above to me the biggest thing is that whoever gets hired gets to bring in other talented, forward thinking, people with them and invest in the FO (and the analytics staff). If they are just going to keep the 3 amigos and not invest in analytics (or payroll) it doesn't matter who they hire.
Look I don't know how open minded Melvin is or isn't or what his plan would be. But his career record I believe is better than the Mets team W-L record over the same period of time, better than both Sandy/Omar, and he's almost entirely operated with a bottom 1/3 small market franchise budget. He's twice won GM of the year. By Met standards they could do a lot worse.
and Omar were in on all 3 interviews so any doubt they are being let go can pretty much be eliminated.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
and Omar were in on all 3 interviews so any doubt they are being let go can pretty much be eliminated.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
I mean it's the Mets but given the fact Melvin was directly recommended by Omar (gave him his first job in Texas) and he sat in on the interview... it would be absolutely stunning if Omar isn't back. Viola and Becerra were significant loses. Outside of adding to the analytics staff Melvin's first move should be firing DiSarcina and hiring a veteran BC (who doesn't have managerial aspirations).
That's probably true - if it's Melvin I'm less worried about Omar
than if it's Bloom. In no way does that make me prefer hiring Melvin over Bloom, but I think it's just a reality. And who knows, if Omar can carve out a role as the Fred whisperer to get him to spend more money like the old days or move off some of his "old school" demands maybe he can even be helpful.
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
RE: That's probably true - if it's Melvin I'm less worried about Omar
than if it's Bloom. In no way does that make me prefer hiring Melvin over Bloom, but I think it's just a reality. And who knows, if Omar can carve out a role as the Fred whisperer to get him to spend more money like the old days or move off some of his "old school" demands maybe he can even be helpful.
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
Well said but not happening. The real GM of this team will be Jeff Wilpon.
What kills me about Melvin is that you know what you are getting. At best your signing up for mediocrity. Swing for the fences here...
Chaim Bloom's entire statement:
"We had a productive meeting yesterday. There was a lot of baseball conversation and I enjoyed the time we spent together."
Chaim Bloom's entire statement:
"We had a productive meeting yesterday. There was a lot of baseball conversation and I enjoyed the time we spent together."
lol even more:
Quote:
Mets Daddy
@MetsDaddy2013
30s31 seconds ago
Translating Chaim Bloom's statement:
Fuck the Mets. Fuck the Wilpons. This was a giant waste of my time. Good luck Doug Melvin. You're going to need it.
and Omar were in on all 3 interviews so any doubt they are being let go can pretty much be eliminated.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
I mean it's the Mets but given the fact Melvin was directly recommended by Omar (gave him his first job in Texas) and he sat in on the interview... it would be absolutely stunning if Omar isn't back. Viola and Becerra were significant loses. Outside of adding to the analytics staff Melvin's first move should be firing DiSarcina and hiring a veteran BC (who doesn't have managerial aspirations).
@AnthonyDiComo
3m3 minutes ago
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The biggest issue, to me, regarding the Mets' GM search, has been the absence of so many young, up-and-coming executives: McLeod, Levine, Chernoff, Cherington, Porter, Picollo, so many others. The Mets GM job should be alluring to the brightest names in baseball. It hasn't been.
RE: RE: That's probably true - if it's Melvin I'm less worried about Omar
than if it's Bloom. In no way does that make me prefer hiring Melvin over Bloom, but I think it's just a reality. And who knows, if Omar can carve out a role as the Fred whisperer to get him to spend more money like the old days or move off some of his "old school" demands maybe he can even be helpful.
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
Well said but not happening. The real GM of this team will be Jeff Wilpon.
What kills me about Melvin is that you know what you are getting. At best your signing up for mediocrity. Swing for the fences here...
We know what we're getting yes, but the results on the field are going to be more of a function of the talent already in the org than the GM. We know we'd be getting someone who is a competent GM to figure out how to proceed with JDG, Thor, Conforto, Nimmo, etc. and if those guys (and Gimenez, Alonso, etc) pan out brighter days may be ahead. Each of these candidates have track records that inspire some level of confidence in their competence to make those decisions.
Unfortunately I agree with you that it's far more likely the Wilpons remain too involved than the opposite, and it's their impact on those types of decisions and the resources of the org that generally results in poor results on the field.
And why Ive been pounding the table about this for the past couple of years.
When the young up and comers dont want to STAY in the organization they KNOW.
You cant attract young up and comers to JOIN the organization.
probably isn't going to affect the 2019 ballclub all that much. They're doing to sign some bullpen arms, and maybe another hitter. I think any of us could take over as GM and make a few offseason moves and give the team a chance in 2019 if there's no injuries.
I'm hoping for the GM to do a lot more than be reactive and try to patch holes in the offseason though. I want to improve player development, self scouting (which the Mets have been woeful at for a decade), opposition scouting, the entire draft process, our analytics system, etc.
We'll have a shot to be a top team 10 for a year or two if things break right no matter who we hire. I'm just hoping that we can go beyond that and use this opportunity to hire a top mind in baseball and turns the reigns over for the long term.
Put shortly, the hire probably won't affect our 2019 chances that much but will dramatically impact whether the Mets are ahead or behind the competition in 2020 and beyond.
And why Ive been pounding the table about this for the past couple of years.
When the young up and comers dont want to STAY in the organization they KNOW.
You cant attract young up and comers to JOIN the organization.
Great point. This GM search isn't going to solve the problem of the Wilpons. They need to solve that problem and acknowledge the negative impact of their involvement and change that. The organization will not have sustained success until they do.
Kicking Sandy on the way out the door, hiring Omar over Sandy's reco of Cherington last year, talented coaches leaving the organization, and getting turned down by candidates they were interested in are not hopeful signs that they've learned yet.
out all of next year. Next year was probably AA and AAA year anyway, so not a huge loss if he can rebound well in 2020.
Disagree. I think he was one of the next arms up. 26 AA starts in 2018, I think he was a second half 2019 option, now obviously not. Now you are hopeful for an early season 2020 return. 15-16 months would have him back on the mound around ST 2020.
in the sense that he, Dunn, Peterson, and Kay are all in a similar stage and with a good year could have moved into the big league discussion. Hopefully 1 of the other 3 has a development leap.
@JeffPassan
15m15 minutes ago
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Its not just that the job isnt enticing because of ownership. Its that the Mets didnt even reach out to some of those named below, which was malpractice. The searchs point man was Omar Minaya, who last ran a team in 2010. The candidates who were interviewed reflected that.
@AnthonyDiComo
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The biggest issue, to me, regarding the Mets' GM search, has been the absence of so many young, up-and-coming executives: McLeod, Levine, Chernoff, Cherington, Porter, Picollo, so many others. The Mets GM job should be alluring to the brightest names in baseball. It hasn't been.
comes in and wins a World Series I don't give a shit what is malpractice or who they did or didn't interview.
If the next 8 years is a repeat of the last 8 or the 8 before then yeah it will be "same old Mets"
but I truly don't give a shit of the GM is old school, old, young, a scout, an analytics guy, etc.
Dave Dombrowski is on the verge of winning another world series. He's 62. He's been "accused" of abandoning analytics and of being a pioneer with analytics, and truth is probably somewhere in between.
wins a world series. I'd be happy if Isiah Thomas became Mets GM and they won a world series. The goal is to make that as likely as possible and hiring a 66 year old who said he was too old for the job 3 years ago isn't encouraging. Don't worry though, I'll be over it by opening day (after some bitching though sorry).
BTW, Red Sox have one of the largest analytics departments in MLB and spend immense resources in that area.
comes in and wins a World Series I don't give a shit what is malpractice or who they did or didn't interview.
If the next 8 years is a repeat of the last 8 or the 8 before then yeah it will be "same old Mets"
but I truly don't give a shit of the GM is old school, old, young, a scout, an analytics guy, etc.
Dave Dombrowski is on the verge of winning another world series. He's 62. He's been "accused" of abandoning analytics and of being a pioneer with analytics, and truth is probably somewhere in between.
Can't compare the Sox and Mets. Payroll alone makes it an invalid comparison. Don't need analytics as much when your payroll is 229 million or 80... yes 80 million more than the Mets
Mets highest paid players (on paper) next year will essentially not see the field. Wright at 17, Cespedes 27, that means Jay Bruce will be the Mets only 8 figure salary player in 2019 (before FA), the Red Sox currently have 7 players making 10 million or more, 6 are on the WS roster (Pedroia is hurt).
wins a world series. I'd be happy if Isiah Thomas became Mets GM and they won a world series. The goal is to make that as likely as possible and hiring a 66 year old who said he was too old for the job 3 years ago isn't encouraging. Don't worry though, I'll be over it by opening day (after some bitching though sorry).
BTW, Red Sox have one of the largest analytics departments in MLB and spend immense resources in that area.
Tell me which analytics model led the Red Sox to shell out massive dollars to Carl Crawford or extend Josh Beckett, or to give massive coin to Hanley Ramirez or Pablo Sandoval, or Rusney Castillo.
They are far less analytics reliant under Dombrowski and analytics helped get Cherington fired (though Theo and Hoyer deserve much of that credit).
Maybe you can explain to me how a massive analytics dept helps Boston and a smaller one hurts the Mets as opposed to a massive payroll vs a smaller one.
Mets highest paid players (on paper) next year will essentially not see the field. Wright at 17, Cespedes 27, that means Jay Bruce will be the Mets only 8 figure salary player in 2019 (before FA), the Red Sox currently have 7 players making 10 million or more, 6 are on the WS roster (Pedroia is hurt).
I agree, the Mets payroll should be higher. The Mets would outdraw the Red Sox if they fielded a competitive team.
And I believe payroll and spending in general helps as much as analytics.
$ spent on payroll, FO personnel, scouting, prospects is the #1 factor
for sustained success. Bar none. If ownership committed to increasing the resources from where they currently are (bottom half of baseball) to where they should be (top 10) that would dramatically increase the odds of the next GM succeeding - regardless of who gets selected.
They are far less analytics reliant under Dombrowski and analytics helped get Cherington fired (though Theo and Hoyer deserve much of that credit).
Maybe you can explain to me how a massive analytics dept helps Boston and a smaller one hurts the Mets as opposed to a massive payroll vs a smaller one.
If the Red Sox don't rely on analytics any more then why do they have one of the biggest analytic departments in baseball? Do they just hire all of these guys and not listen to them? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Of course a massive payroll has an impact. When did I say it didnt? It would be crazy to argue otherwise. If the Wilpons aren't going to spend more, than the only hope is to hire a top GM who can get more with less.
Look at Tampa. 8 winning seasons in the past 12 years despite having a smaller payroll than the Mets and playing in the toughest division in baseball. Two of their losing seasons were only 80-82. The Mets have 7 losing seasons out of the past 9. Why continue along the same path as before?
The Mets have a chance to take one of Tampa's top guys to give us a chance to compete. Why take a step backwards?
Can you please explain to me why you think Doug Melvin is such a great hire that I should be excited about? I'm not sure why you're coming after me so hard unless you're passionate about the guy so please explain.
havn't made their mind up yet on the hire, so I suggest any Met fans get on social media and make their thoughts on Melvin vs Bloom known often and loud. The Wilpons have given in to media/fan pressure before, and it's our only hope at this point IMO.
havn't made their mind up yet on the hire, so I suggest any Met fans get on social media and make their thoughts on Melvin vs Bloom known often and loud. The Wilpons have given in to media/fan pressure before, and it's our only hope at this point IMO.
on you PJ (or anyone else). I badly want the Mets to succeed and am frustrated by how this is going.
I'm clearly too worked up about this and need to dial it down a notch and take a break from posting about it for a while.
No offense taken. I didn't even notice if you were super critical.
There is a former Braves FO guy, who is now a Mets beat guy? or something like that and he credibly questioned the reports on how many analytics people each team employs. He also said it's common for teams to outsource a lot of that ground work.
My point is the Mets are not missing out on players (in my limited opinion) because they don't have the numbers crunched the same way as the Red Sox or Yankees or whoever. It's because of less spend in free agency (domestic and international), international scouting investment, and other functions that cost money but lead more directly to player acquisition.
Even if you absolutely love the decision to hire Doug Melvin, the mere fact Omar Minaya was the "point man" in making this decision is truly absurd. No other team in baseball values Omar Minaya's opinion in that way. None.
The Mets are putting on a Futuras Estrellas Equipment Donation event Nov. 6 at their Dominican academy, which is pretty cool.
Theyll host youth teams for a day, give them equipment and show them around the facilities. Then the kids can watch Mets-Yankees, DR instrux edition.
4:27 PM - 25 Oct 2018
keithlaw
Verified account @keithlaw
2m2 minutes ago
i am unclear what sort of process produces three finalists as utterly different as this troika
Mets Daddy
@MetsDaddy2013
Replying to @keithlaw
It's easy. The team already decided on Melvin, and they are throwing off the scent by having three completely different candidates. This way, when they do hire Melvin, they can say they did their due diligence in pursuing candidates from different backgrounds.
Textbook Mets.
2 - out of all the candidates these seem like the strongest of the types. Melvin by far the least scary old school candidate and Bloom the most exciting young candidate. Could they end up going with some combo of the 2?
Now not to get negative - the biggest hurdle in this entire process is still to come, in the form of whether or not the new guy actually gets the clean house or whether they are forced to keep the 3 amigos, especially Omar.
Link - ( New Window )
2 - out of all the candidates these seem like the strongest of the types. Melvin by far the least scary old school candidate and Bloom the most exciting young candidate. Could they end up going with some combo of the 2?
Now not to get negative - the biggest hurdle in this entire process is still to come, in the form of whether or not the new guy actually gets the clean house or whether they are forced to keep the 3 amigos, especially Omar.
Bloom isn't leaving TB to be anything less than "the man" so no I don't see any way both Melvin and Bloom are the hire. They already have 2 meddling owners, Omar, Ricco, Ricciardi.
60% Melvin
30% Brodie
10% Bloom
its so mets that he is a finalist. I guess there thought process is with the wilpons, omar, ricco, and JP they probably believe Melvin can be the face of a terrible run front office.
The man literally said the job is too much for him and he is a finalist for our job...just think about that for 2 seconds to sum up the disaster that is the mets organization.
60% Melvin
30% Brodie
10% Bloom
Sounds about right.
BVW probably wants it most because this seems like a "dream" job situation. No way will he be making more money as Mets gm vs. sports agent. Melvin probably wants the easy paycheck.
Quote:
I'm saying
60% Melvin
30% Brodie
10% Bloom
Sounds about right.
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13m13 minutes ago
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I have talked to several people connected with the organization who believe Fred Wilpon will go the conservative route and pick Melvin, because the Mets' last "outside the box" pick, Mickey Callaway, has backfired somewhat.
I have talked to several people connected with the organization who believe Fred Wilpon will go the conservative route and pick Melvin, because the Mets' last "outside the box" pick, Mickey Callaway, has backfired somewhat.
And man that article from Melvin is damning. And what about his record is impressive? Only the Mets...
because if Minaya is helping run the show (which we know he is and the Wilpons love him). Why not pick a for show older GM so that people can still be hands on like Minaya behind the scenes and possibly eventually take over.
If Bloom (a widely regarded future star GM in the making) took the job he would want full control or why wouldn't he wait for a position (which he would eventually get) with full control.
This screams mets though, they have had Melvins old a** pegged before the GM search even started.
He's just super young I guess...
71%Chaim Bloom
17%Doug Melvin
12%Brodie Van Wagenen
@jaseidler
2h2 hours ago
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Bloom is also way more in the box than Doug Melvin in 2019
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
I posted it in the other Mets thread.
Quote:
And no mention of the Marlins signing the Mesas?
I posted it in the other Mets thread.
My bad, missed it. Thanks
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
The FO already includes 2 former major league GM's, it's silly to think Bloom would have trouble in this role given this "support"
Quote:
Bloom would be a first-time gm. In that way he'd be a similar hire to any first-time person in any new role that has a different set of responsibilities and an increased level of responsibility (like Callaway last year). There are risks that go along with any rookie that can be lesser with experienced hires. Experienced hires come with a different set of risks because most who are job hunting are usually doing so for a reason.
None of that has anything to do with inside the box vs. outside the box baseball philosophy, which doesn't even seem to be part of the current commentary.
The FO already includes 2 former major league GM's, it's silly to think Bloom would have trouble in this role given this "support"
The 2 former GM's are counterproductive. Managing up has been the single biggest challenge in this organization due to meddlesome owners and biggest area of concern hiring a first time GM. It was a challenge for Sandy and he's got as much gravitas as any executive in the game. That's not to say I wouldn't hire Bloom, he's my favorite remaining candidate, but it's just a fact that there's more risk for the mets hiring a first time exec bc their management hierarchy is so unstable.
"In my role as an agent, my solution is to create opportunities for players to be successful both on and off the field. By creating partnerships between players and teams, the interests of all parties can be aligned. If the players are able to reach their peak potential, the fans will be rewarded with a competitive team that can contend for championships year in and year out. The Clubs benefit with compelling, sustainable and profitable entertainment franchises; and the players are rewarded with a platform to realize their childhood dreams while receiving compensation consistent with their tremendous talents."
"My conversations with the Mets continue to be organic. I believe baseball is better when the Mets are competitive and successful. That success is better for the fans, players, and the economy of the sport. As Jeff and Fred continue their search for a new head of baseball operations, the players, fans and entire organization will be motivated to have a leader with the skills and commitment to win. If the Wilpon's believe I am that person, we will have that conversation."
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
He has that without moving and Bloom is going to be a sought after target until he gets a GM job. I could see the Mets trying it with someone like BVW if they are gunshy about hiring him without any front office experience
I still wouldn't be excited by the hire though. His comments three years ago about being too old for the job are really damning. I wonder if Bloom would be willing to come on with Melvin as an heir apparent type.
He almost certainly would not. He's one step away from the GM role in TB and has interviewed for now 3 GM's spots.
Marc Carig
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18m18 minutes ago
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Doug Melvin needed to use this conference call to showcase that hes not a dinosaur. So, he said his first stat guy was a pecan farmer and then name-dropped that bastion of forward thinking, John Smoltz. I cant decide if this was folksy charm or just a total misread.
WTF.
Mike Puma
Verified account @NYPost_Mets
Melvin on the Mets' interest in him: "If there were other opportunities - and I'm not talking to anybody else - but if there were other opportunities I probably would not have been as interested."
2:19 PM - 23 Oct 2018
gmenrule : 9:39 am : link : reply
the Giants or the Mets ? Nothing but gray skies for 2-3 years at a minimum for Giants. Probably longer for the Mets.
Look at both team's rosters. The Mets are light years ahead of the Giants both at the major league and minor league level. The only good player the SFGiants have right now is really Mad Bumgarner. Who it would behoove them to move this off-season.
The Giants franchise is in very very bad shape, they have almost zero talent at the ML level, and they have an Elite Catching prospect (Joey Bart) and that's it. It's going to be a 4-5 year rebuild for them. They have stupid contracts in Longoria, Posey, Cueto, Crawford, Belt, and Samardjiza. They are in terrible shape.
Mets actually aren't in bad shape. They have some difficult questions on players to sign, such as Wheeler and deGrom. But they have young talent and really need 1 major core player (I.e. machado) and a bullpen and I think they can compete. .
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
6m6 minutes ago
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what you definitely want to have to do is have to clarify the statements of your 66-year-old GM-in-waiting on his public interview conference call because he came across as confused and out of touch
period. It's not even really a discussion IMO, especially a role to critical for franchise future success.
And for him to say this publicly makes it seems almost like he doesn't want the job but felt like he had to take the interview.
Quote:
Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
We will hear if Omar is still employed. And Ricco. And JP. And if the new GM gets to bring in some new names or add analytics people etc. To me the answer to those questions are almost as important as the GM hire itself - the new GM should get to start fresh from top to bottom. But if Shecky's hints are accurate I guess we already know that's not happening.
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In comment 14144231 Eric on Li said:
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Melvin's track record isn't that bad. He did well in Texas. He inherited a terrible situation in Milwaukee and took them out of the cellar. Yost was a pretty good hire I guess. He seems very Sandy-ish. I actually wonder if maybe that works against him. Clearly the Wilpons had a little bit of a bitter taste in their mouth towards the end of the Sandy regime, I wonder if people are too heavily discounting the possibility that they go in a different direction this time in hopes of finding someone young, and who they may be able to influence more than a more established exec.
Hard to trust them whatever way they go TBH, but I guess it's not as bad as it could have been considering all the other candidates who thankfully didn't make the final 3. I'll reserve judgement until hearing more - especially how much control over front office personnel the ultimate choice gets.
You won't "hear" anything. The Mets have long maintained they are hands off... and then it's not the case. In fact a few weeks ago Jeff acknowledging all roster moves go through him was something of a revelation. Melvin already claims he'd be able to do what he wants, Sandy said the same. Neither will be accurate.
We will hear if Omar is still employed. And Ricco. And JP. And if the new GM gets to bring in some new names or add analytics people etc. To me the answer to those questions are almost as important as the GM hire itself - the new GM should get to start fresh from top to bottom. But if Shecky's hints are accurate I guess we already know that's not happening.
I will be absolutely STUNNED if Omar and Ricco don't return. Ricciardi isn't even usually "on-site" so his return means very little. Omar has helped pick the candidates, he's coming back.
I don't want Melvin, under any circumstances, but for comparison in 8 seasons (including 2018) as Mets GM, Sandy's Mets were over .500 twice and never won more than 90 games.
Melvin seems consistent with that production.
If Omar is 100% staying that's extremely troubling to me bc of his direct relationship with ownership and as much as I expect it (bc mets) I'm going to cross my fingers until there's an announcement. I'm less worried about Ricco.
Some rough comments or not over the last few years, he's probably not terrible.
So do we have no shot at Bloom? 100% Melvin? Why would Bloom go along with the charade?
The side I'm most worried about isn't either of them, it's ownership, so I'm curious to see how much autonomy either of them gets to truly change things.
1 underrated fact about Melvin looking at his time in Milwaukee, I didn't realize how low their payrolls were. That's a pretty interesting common thread between him and Bloom that probably isn't getting as much attention as it should as a further indictment of how the Wilpons plan to continue running things here.
-Should also be noted Melvin noted the analytics staff was thin, great job by Fred for rejecting Sandy's requests for help
Look at the operations the Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Astros are all running. We need to set something up to compete with that. I'm worried that Melvin will just try to sign a few band-aids in the offseason and we'll hope for everything to break right.
Hopefully ownership does the right thing here for once. The GM is so much more important than the manager that it cannot be overstated.
-Should also be noted Melvin noted the analytics staff was thin, great job by Fred for rejecting Sandy's requests for help
It's crazy that Fred thinks that Sandy relied too much on analytics. He gave Alderson a bare bones staff (which Alderson ignored anyway when making the awful Vargas and Bruce deals).
What a mess. We're going to need a smart guy with a lot of energy to get a functioning organization running.
I'm worried that if he hire Melvin, he'll just be an executive type with Ricco and Minaya running the day-to-day show.
Come on Shecky tell us what you know. Or at least give us hints. If you were near me I'd ply you with booze until you talked. or passed out.
Top teams by analytic staffs:
Yankees (20)
Dodgers (20)
Astros (15)
Braves (15)
Brewers (11)
Lowest division winner was Red Sox with 6
Mets - 3
Payroll Rankings:
Red Sox #1 (228m)
Dodgers #3 (200m)
Cubs #4 (195m)
Yankees #6 (175m)
Astros #9 (163m)
Brewers (#22 - 108m) and Braves (#18 - 130m) lowest of winners
Mets - (#12 pre-insurance 150m, with insurance probably closer to 100m)
They need to invest more resources on the field and in the front office period. The resource part of the equation is just as important as who they hire to be GM.
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Info leaks? Fast and furious, followed by denials, followed by unofficial confirmation? Or can everyone wait till tomorrow lol
Come on Shecky tell us what you know. Or at least give us hints. If you were near me I'd ply you with booze until you talked. or passed out.
I think he's basically confirming it's Melvin.
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.
*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) AA 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
9) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
10) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
11) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
12) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
13) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
14) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
15) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
16) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
17) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
18) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
19) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
Lol, Ill take the night of drinking, but I dont know shit!!!
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
52m52 minutes ago
Peter Alonso went 3-for-5 with a double, home run and two RBI tonight for the Scottsdale Scorpions.
He leades the AFL with 4 homers.
To orrow
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
3m3 minutes ago
Mets top prospect Andres Gimenez went 1-for-3 with a triple, three RBI and two walks today in AFL action.
He played second base again.
3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
4s4 seconds ago
Mets outfield prospect Desmond Lindsay continued his strong AFL campaign today, going 2-for-5 with a homer and two RBI.
Does he have warts, of course every player does.
But he canhe also do some things only a few humans on this planet can do? You bet your ass.
Not the second coming of Bonds no one expects that. But there is a potential plus player there, yet no one wants to believe it.
Nice to see signs of life from Lindsay too.
A Brewers source said that Melvin would sometimes override his scouts' recommendation and make a decision based on analytics, and sometimes would ignore the data to listen to his scouts -- as any competent GM would....
But one label that is not fair to affix to Bloom is "analytics guy." He's a baseball guy -- like Doug Melvin.
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Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
9m9 minutes ago
Exit velocity on each of Peter Alonso's three hits yesterday in the Arizona Fall League:
Single (99.3 MPH)
Homer (113.6 MPH)
Double (116.3 MPH, hardest ball hit by Mets/Mets prospect since Statcast started tracking data in 2015)
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According to people in rival front offices who know both men, the "old school/new school" labels are not only demeaning to both Bloom, 35, and Melvin, 66, but are inaccurate. In reality, both men occupy a different space in the vast middle ground where most successful executives reside....
A Brewers source said that Melvin would sometimes override his scouts' recommendation and make a decision based on analytics, and sometimes would ignore the data to listen to his scouts -- as any competent GM would....
But one label that is not fair to affix to Bloom is "analytics guy." He's a baseball guy -- like Doug Melvin.
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Honestly, I like things about both Bloom (my preference) and Melvin (who seems like a competent and safe pick). All things considered I will be happy with either - IF (big if) - they get autonomy and resources to bring the entire org from the stone ages into it's rightful place as a modern team in a big market.
I want a top 10 payroll (without including insurance $), an investment in an analytics team, and a few FO hires poached from around baseball to help fill in whatever weaknesses the final choice might have. None of that is unreasonable for a profitable organization trying to compete for the playoffs in a major market. It's the bare minimum that should be expected.
Jed Bradley 15th overall
2012 Mitch Hanigar 38th overall
The Brewers haven't had a 1st round pick play in a big league game since Hanigar (2012 pick)
Since 2011 the Mets have had 6 1st round picks play in a big league game and that includes Harvey, Fulmer, Nimmo and Conforto.
Please just say you are assuming that's the pick and that Bloom has a chance.
Mike Puma
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Sounds like Chaim Bloom, who interviewed yesterday for the Mets GM opening, will not be holding a conference call with reporters. He is expected to issue a statement, as did Brodie Van Wagenen earlier in the week.
Please just say you are assuming that's the pick and that Bloom has a chance.
Shecky has hinted at Melvin all along and the Mets sycophants like Martino have been putting out Melvin puff pieces for 2 days now. Given todays Bloom news, it's a done deal.
Was it though? His payrolls were bottom of the league so I assume draft spending was similarly low so there's a curve he needs to be graded on since most of his career was in the era where the rules strongly penalized teams that didn't spend $.
I know their current major league roster doesn't have a lot of homegrown production but he did draft Braun and Cain. And Lucroy, who brought them back all the pieces they dealt for Yelich. He also drafted Jeffress and Woodruff, and traded Gomez for Hader and Santana. Stearns obviously deserves a lot of credit for where they are and acquiring/reacquiring Cain/Yelich but he also dealt Khris Davis (who was drafted by Melvin).
Honestly just thinking about the deadline deals he was involved in the past few years makes me feel relatively at ease if he's the selection - Gomez trade agreed to with mets for Wheeler/Flores, gomez trade with Hou, Lucroy deal with indians that would have brought back Mejia, deal with Texas that got Brinson near his peak. Those all would have been good deals.
You had the opportunity to change the team's perception, join the current MLB way of running a team, and you bring in this guy who has no track record of success and admitted the game has passed him by 3 years ago.
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draft record under Melvin was awful. He's going to be the pick but I'm extremely underwhelmed.
Was it though? His payrolls were bottom of the league so I assume draft spending was similarly low so there's a curve he needs to be graded on since most of his career was in the era where the rules strongly penalized teams that didn't spend $.
I know their current major league roster doesn't have a lot of homegrown production but he did draft Braun and Cain. And Lucroy, who brought them back all the pieces they dealt for Yelich. He also drafted Jeffress and Woodruff, and traded Gomez for Hader and Santana. Stearns obviously deserves a lot of credit for where they are and acquiring/reacquiring Cain/Yelich but he also dealt Khris Davis (who was drafted by Melvin).
Honestly just thinking about the deadline deals he was involved in the past few years makes me feel relatively at ease if he's the selection - Gomez trade agreed to with mets for Wheeler/Flores, gomez trade with Hou, Lucroy deal with indians that would have brought back Mejia, deal with Texas that got Brinson near his peak. Those all would have been good deals.
What does payroll have to do with the draft? Their draft record was awful. Dems the facts. Go back and look at their drafts under Melvin during Sandy's time here and compare
2011
Top 3 picks Jungmann, Lopez, Gagnon. Of players they drafted and signed 1.1 fWAR (Jungmann was #1)
2012 Mitch Hanigar, #2 Brent Suter (no other player has produced even 1.0 fWAR)
2013 0 big leaguers
2014 Brandon Woodruff (1.0 fWAR career)
2015 0 big leaguers (Hanhold has appeared in a game but no actual big leaguers yet)
2011 Fulmer 9.5 bWAR, Nimmo 5.3 bWAR, Lugo 4.8 bWAR, Gsellman 1.0 bWAR, Bradford 1.0 bWAR
2012 Plawecki 2.8 bWAR, Koch 1.6 bWAR
2013 McNeil 2.4 bWAR, Bashlor like Hanhold has appeared in games, we shall see
2014 Conforto 9.1 bWAR
This falls all on the Wilpons. Either the top guys don't want to work for these clowns or they don't know how to identify them. But its on them.
This should be a very attractive job. Talent on the ML roster, decent farm system and its NYC. We know what Melvin is. How can they not find anyone better? What a joke.
Just wait until they resign Reyes, bring back Familia and sign some other bargain bin player...
And bonus $/going over slot absolutely is a huge factor in draft results. Moreso before the new rules but that was the majority of his time as GM. I don't know what their numbers were in that regard but my guess is if the spending tracked as low as their payroll spending it was towards the bottom of the league.
These must've been great interviews! The only other explanation is that the rest of the interviews were a sham and Wilpon wanted Melvin all along.
And bonus $/going over slot absolutely is a huge factor in draft results. Moreso before the new rules but that was the majority of his time as GM. I don't know what their numbers were in that regard but my guess is if the spending tracked as low as their payroll spending it was towards the bottom of the league.
So you don't think he should be judged on his most recent work where HE admitted he was probably a bit long in the tooth for the job? Where were teams clamoring to hire him c'mon. THis is a retread in every possible way, Bud Selig approved the hire, sounds familiar.
Now he's ready to rock! and the Brewers are now a contender with a ... next generation GM.
"According to Adam McCalvy of MLB.com, the Brewers will target younger candidates with knowledge of analytics. That would all but rule out recently fired Detroit Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski. While the Brewers will surely look at outside hires, the next GM could already have a position with the team. Ray Montgomery is currently the scouting director for Milwaukee and is someone who is highly respected in Major League Baseball. At 46 years old, he would fit Attanasios youth requirement, and his knowledge of not only scouting but analytics as well is impressive.
"
Is it like the NFL where they are highly involved or is it less than that?
Either way, the way the MLB draft and getting from the minors to the majors works if Melvin is the GM and he drafts high school kids he could be dead before we have a solid evaluation of his draft(s).
His FA signings I think are far more immediate and relevant to the current core than any drafts he presides over.
And I don't know if those are good or bad, only pointing out focusing on his drafts is less relevant to the success of this current core.
Is it like the NFL where they are highly involved or is it less than that?
Either way, the way the MLB draft and getting from the minors to the majors works if Melvin is the GM and he drafts high school kids he could be dead before we have a solid evaluation of his draft(s).
His FA signings I think are far more immediate and relevant to the current core than any drafts he presides over.
And I don't know if those are good or bad, only pointing out focusing on his drafts is less relevant to the success of this current core.
Omar was heavily involved in the draft. Sandy off-loaded much of the draft stuff to DePo while he was here. Their more recent "setup" is less clear. They lost Becerra (a major, major loss) so they continue to hemorrhage front office talent.
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This is the most reasonable criticism of Melvin out there. The game and the job of GM have changed at an unprecedented pace in the last five years.keithlaw added,
Kate Feldman
NAILED IT!!!!!
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How about Jeff's quote that it will be up the new GM if he wants to keep them, but he would like to. Just come out and say those guys are staying. No GM is cleaning house with the guys the owners are close with.
Fred is a joke but his son may be a bigger clown.The guy just oozes doushebag.
Key isnt the players whoGOT them Yelich. But who GOT them Yelich... my favorite non Mets player for the past five years...
They lost Becerra (a major, major loss) so they continue to hemorrhage front office talent.
Annnnnndddd. BINGO.
This isnt something recent, that happened overnight...
Its like having an aging Eli, with a slew of good young QBs to groom. And over several years you just let them all leave...
Do you have any confidence that they do or will find someone? Does Melvin have those types of connections?
My ignorant guess is that Minaya is going to step up and take on more of Beccera's old role. I wouldn't be shocked if this was in the cards already and led to Becerra looking for opportunities elsewhere (and the fact that Boston is an elite organization too). Who knows though. Baseless speculation on my part.
"Mets three candidatrs all have a shot. There is no mystery candidate. They will have a new GM before meetings."
What are your thoughts on Brodie VW? Surprising to me he's even interested in the job. I'd much prefer him or Bloom over Melvin.
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he drafted Lorenzo Cain and the players that brought back Yelich (not to mention Hader).
Key isnt the players whoGOT them Yelich. But who GOT them Yelich... my favorite non Mets player for the past five years...
I was right there with you wanting Yelich bad and don't disagree that Stearns deserves the credit, but I'd hope every GM in baseball has learned that lesson to some degree, and as I said above to me the biggest thing is that whoever gets hired gets to bring in other talented, forward thinking, people with them and invest in the FO (and the analytics staff). If they are just going to keep the 3 amigos and not invest in analytics (or payroll) it doesn't matter who they hire.
Look I don't know how open minded Melvin is or isn't or what his plan would be. But his career record I believe is better than the Mets team W-L record over the same period of time, better than both Sandy/Omar, and he's almost entirely operated with a bottom 1/3 small market franchise budget. He's twice won GM of the year. By Met standards they could do a lot worse.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
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and Omar were in on all 3 interviews so any doubt they are being let go can pretty much be eliminated.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
I mean it's the Mets but given the fact Melvin was directly recommended by Omar (gave him his first job in Texas) and he sat in on the interview... it would be absolutely stunning if Omar isn't back. Viola and Becerra were significant loses. Outside of adding to the analytics staff Melvin's first move should be firing DiSarcina and hiring a veteran BC (who doesn't have managerial aspirations).
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
Well said but not happening. The real GM of this team will be Jeff Wilpon.
What kills me about Melvin is that you know what you are getting. At best your signing up for mediocrity. Swing for the fences here...
"We had a productive meeting yesterday. There was a lot of baseball conversation and I enjoyed the time we spent together."
"We had a productive meeting yesterday. There was a lot of baseball conversation and I enjoyed the time we spent together."
lol even more:
Mets Daddy
@MetsDaddy2013
30s31 seconds ago
Translating Chaim Bloom's statement:
Fuck the Mets. Fuck the Wilpons. This was a giant waste of my time. Good luck Doug Melvin. You're going to need it.
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In comment 14148853 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
and Omar were in on all 3 interviews so any doubt they are being let go can pretty much be eliminated.
Ricco staying doesn't bother me bc he seems like a org guy. Omar staying is troubling bc he has the direct relationship with Fred and I think that relationship undermines the authority of the GM. You're probably right that both will still be around so if that's the case I guess the most important thing is seeing how much autonomy the new GM will have beyond those 2 to retool the org.
The easiest PR win regardless of who they hire would be to also announce new investment into analytic positions. It's such a layup even the Wilpons won't botch it. But we'll need to read between the lines whether or not it's a serious effort or dog and pony show. Just like the hire itself.
I mean it's the Mets but given the fact Melvin was directly recommended by Omar (gave him his first job in Texas) and he sat in on the interview... it would be absolutely stunning if Omar isn't back. Viola and Becerra were significant loses. Outside of adding to the analytics staff Melvin's first move should be firing DiSarcina and hiring a veteran BC (who doesn't have managerial aspirations).
Would also like to see Pat Roessler replaced
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The biggest issue, to me, regarding the Mets' GM search, has been the absence of so many young, up-and-coming executives: McLeod, Levine, Chernoff, Cherington, Porter, Picollo, so many others. The Mets GM job should be alluring to the brightest names in baseball. It hasn't been.
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than if it's Bloom. In no way does that make me prefer hiring Melvin over Bloom, but I think it's just a reality. And who knows, if Omar can carve out a role as the Fred whisperer to get him to spend more money like the old days or move off some of his "old school" demands maybe he can even be helpful.
IMO the success of this franchise hinges first on the Wilpons getting out of the way and second on the quality of the GM. So those are the 2 things I'm anxious to hear/read between the lines on in the upcoming announcements. Will the new guy get autonomy with the Wilpons or is it going to be some kind of clusterfuck 3 headed monster like the trade deadline? What is the new guy's vision going forward?
Well said but not happening. The real GM of this team will be Jeff Wilpon.
What kills me about Melvin is that you know what you are getting. At best your signing up for mediocrity. Swing for the fences here...
We know what we're getting yes, but the results on the field are going to be more of a function of the talent already in the org than the GM. We know we'd be getting someone who is a competent GM to figure out how to proceed with JDG, Thor, Conforto, Nimmo, etc. and if those guys (and Gimenez, Alonso, etc) pan out brighter days may be ahead. Each of these candidates have track records that inspire some level of confidence in their competence to make those decisions.
Unfortunately I agree with you that it's far more likely the Wilpons remain too involved than the opposite, and it's their impact on those types of decisions and the resources of the org that generally results in poor results on the field.
When the young up and comers dont want to STAY in the organization they KNOW.
You cant attract young up and comers to JOIN the organization.
I'm hoping for the GM to do a lot more than be reactive and try to patch holes in the offseason though. I want to improve player development, self scouting (which the Mets have been woeful at for a decade), opposition scouting, the entire draft process, our analytics system, etc.
We'll have a shot to be a top team 10 for a year or two if things break right no matter who we hire. I'm just hoping that we can go beyond that and use this opportunity to hire a top mind in baseball and turns the reigns over for the long term.
Put shortly, the hire probably won't affect our 2019 chances that much but will dramatically impact whether the Mets are ahead or behind the competition in 2020 and beyond.
When the young up and comers dont want to STAY in the organization they KNOW.
You cant attract young up and comers to JOIN the organization.
Great point. This GM search isn't going to solve the problem of the Wilpons. They need to solve that problem and acknowledge the negative impact of their involvement and change that. The organization will not have sustained success until they do.
Kicking Sandy on the way out the door, hiring Omar over Sandy's reco of Cherington last year, talented coaches leaving the organization, and getting turned down by candidates they were interested in are not hopeful signs that they've learned yet.
Disagree. I think he was one of the next arms up. 26 AA starts in 2018, I think he was a second half 2019 option, now obviously not. Now you are hopeful for an early season 2020 return. 15-16 months would have him back on the mound around ST 2020.
Most important part of the job for a Mets GM.
Most important part of the job for a Mets GM.
Handle it how exactly?
@JeffPassan
15m15 minutes ago
More Jeff Passan Retweeted Anthony DiComo
Its not just that the job isnt enticing because of ownership. Its that the Mets didnt even reach out to some of those named below, which was malpractice. The searchs point man was Omar Minaya, who last ran a team in 2010. The candidates who were interviewed reflected that.
@AnthonyDiComo
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The biggest issue, to me, regarding the Mets' GM search, has been the absence of so many young, up-and-coming executives: McLeod, Levine, Chernoff, Cherington, Porter, Picollo, so many others. The Mets GM job should be alluring to the brightest names in baseball. It hasn't been.
If the next 8 years is a repeat of the last 8 or the 8 before then yeah it will be "same old Mets"
but I truly don't give a shit of the GM is old school, old, young, a scout, an analytics guy, etc.
Dave Dombrowski is on the verge of winning another world series. He's 62. He's been "accused" of abandoning analytics and of being a pioneer with analytics, and truth is probably somewhere in between.
BTW, Red Sox have one of the largest analytics departments in MLB and spend immense resources in that area.
If the next 8 years is a repeat of the last 8 or the 8 before then yeah it will be "same old Mets"
but I truly don't give a shit of the GM is old school, old, young, a scout, an analytics guy, etc.
Dave Dombrowski is on the verge of winning another world series. He's 62. He's been "accused" of abandoning analytics and of being a pioneer with analytics, and truth is probably somewhere in between.
Can't compare the Sox and Mets. Payroll alone makes it an invalid comparison. Don't need analytics as much when your payroll is 229 million or 80... yes 80 million more than the Mets
BTW, Red Sox have one of the largest analytics departments in MLB and spend immense resources in that area.
Tell me which analytics model led the Red Sox to shell out massive dollars to Carl Crawford or extend Josh Beckett, or to give massive coin to Hanley Ramirez or Pablo Sandoval, or Rusney Castillo.
They are far less analytics reliant under Dombrowski and analytics helped get Cherington fired (though Theo and Hoyer deserve much of that credit).
Maybe you can explain to me how a massive analytics dept helps Boston and a smaller one hurts the Mets as opposed to a massive payroll vs a smaller one.
I agree, the Mets payroll should be higher. The Mets would outdraw the Red Sox if they fielded a competitive team.
And I believe payroll and spending in general helps as much as analytics.
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They are far less analytics reliant under Dombrowski and analytics helped get Cherington fired (though Theo and Hoyer deserve much of that credit).
Maybe you can explain to me how a massive analytics dept helps Boston and a smaller one hurts the Mets as opposed to a massive payroll vs a smaller one.
If the Red Sox don't rely on analytics any more then why do they have one of the biggest analytic departments in baseball? Do they just hire all of these guys and not listen to them? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Of course a massive payroll has an impact. When did I say it didnt? It would be crazy to argue otherwise. If the Wilpons aren't going to spend more, than the only hope is to hire a top GM who can get more with less.
Look at Tampa. 8 winning seasons in the past 12 years despite having a smaller payroll than the Mets and playing in the toughest division in baseball. Two of their losing seasons were only 80-82. The Mets have 7 losing seasons out of the past 9. Why continue along the same path as before?
The Mets have a chance to take one of Tampa's top guys to give us a chance to compete. Why take a step backwards?
Can you please explain to me why you think Doug Melvin is such a great hire that I should be excited about? I'm not sure why you're coming after me so hard unless you're passionate about the guy so please explain.
I'm clearly too worked up about this and need to dial it down a notch and take a break from posting about it for a while.
hear ye, HEAR YE
I'm clearly too worked up about this and need to dial it down a notch and take a break from posting about it for a while.
No offense taken. I didn't even notice if you were super critical.
There is a former Braves FO guy, who is now a Mets beat guy? or something like that and he credibly questioned the reports on how many analytics people each team employs. He also said it's common for teams to outsource a lot of that ground work.
My point is the Mets are not missing out on players (in my limited opinion) because they don't have the numbers crunched the same way as the Red Sox or Yankees or whoever. It's because of less spend in free agency (domestic and international), international scouting investment, and other functions that cost money but lead more directly to player acquisition.
Tim Healey
Verified account @timbhealey
The Mets are putting on a Futuras Estrellas Equipment Donation event Nov. 6 at their Dominican academy, which is pretty cool.
Theyll host youth teams for a day, give them equipment and show them around the facilities. Then the kids can watch Mets-Yankees, DR instrux edition.
4:27 PM - 25 Oct 2018
Tim Healey
Verified account @timbhealey
11s11 seconds ago
The Mets GM choice is down to Chaim Bloom and Brodie Van Wagenen, a source says, confirming @JonHeymans tweet.
Doug Melvin will not be the Mets next GM.