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Jacksonville exploring vet quarterbacks per Francesca

joeinpa : 10/22/2018 3:46 pm
Mike has a source he trusts on this issue. However, he made it clear he knows nothing in regard to Eli and this info.

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Jacksonville is on their 3rd tackle  
widmerseyebrow : 10/22/2018 4:14 pm : link
Hence why they signed Flowers off the scrap heap. The protection isn't going to be much better there for a pocket passer.
The question is, does it make sense for the Giants?  
ron mexico : 10/22/2018 4:15 pm : link
absolutely

*Get some draft asset in return
*More cap room next year
*Clear the deck for the next QB
*Fans that would be pissed with his release will be ok with this as they are probably also sentimental for TC

At this point Eli  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/22/2018 4:17 pm : link
has no trade value whatsoever. Last season sure, but there is no way they take on that contract.

I don't even think you could get a 7th rounder in return for him.
Why would we give them Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 10/22/2018 4:21 pm : link
we are only a few games out of first place in the NFCE, and he is under contract for another year?

RE: Why would we give them Eli  
dep026 : 10/22/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14139481 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
we are only a few games out of first place in the NFCE, and he is under contract for another year?


That’s the spirit!!!
According to overthecap.com  
Tom from LI : 10/22/2018 4:25 pm : link
Jax has 10.4 million free


and if we trade ELi we gain 10 million in cap space.

Not sure how accurate that is.
I just wanted to type a moronic post  
Jimmy Googs : 10/22/2018 4:28 pm : link
to see what its like to be one of you all for a change...
Tyrod Taylor  
dank41 : 10/22/2018 4:30 pm : link
makes the most sense. If Eli goes anywhere, it will be an ESPN-circus, and that is not what the Jaguars need right now.
RE: Jacksonville  
Big_Pete : 10/22/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14139409 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
Does not have cap space for Eli correct?


According to Spotrac, Jacksonville has $6,191,050 in cap space for this season.

Eli does have a $22m cap hit this year, but his base salary is only $10.5m.

If Eli was to be traded later this week, the Jaguars would only be on the hook for the remainder of his base salary this year.
The cap numbers for Jacksonville would look something like:
2018: $5,906,250
2019: $17,000,000
with no guaranteed money.

The Giants would lose $293,750 in cap room this year, but Eli is then off the books. (We would gain $5,906,250, but the $6,200,000 from his pro rata signing bonus in 2019 becomes dead money).

Purely from a salary cap perspective, it could be an option.
.  
FranchiseQB : 10/22/2018 4:33 pm : link
The Jags are not trading for Eli. They have eyes. They can see how bad he is now. The idea of getting a new QB is to add somebody who is better than what you already have.

Maybe Derek Carr makes sense for them. I am not even sure Gruden is done with Carr, but if so, I guess it could make sense.
RE: Tyrod Taylor  
jcn56 : 10/22/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14139494 dank41 said:
Quote:
makes the most sense. If Eli goes anywhere, it will be an ESPN-circus, and that is not what the Jaguars need right now.


I don't know that the answer to the question 'who's better at QB than Blake Bortles' is 'Tyrod Taylor'. The idea is to end up with someone better.

And to be honest, short of Carr (who I'm not sure the Jags could afford), I don't know of any other vets who qualify. Bortles is no great shakes - but Bradford? Taylor? Bridgewater? All of them have pretty serious warts. Eli would be the best of that bunch, even with the question marks surrounding him today.
I'd  
AcidTest : 10/22/2018 4:36 pm : link
do it, probably for very little. But as others have noted, Eli is not the veteran QB the Jaguars want. He's completely immobile. Carr is the more likely option. Maybe Taylor. Eli would probably block the trade anyway.
RE: Tyrod Taylor  
Big_Pete : 10/22/2018 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14139494 dank41 said:
Quote:
makes the most sense. If Eli goes anywhere, it will be an ESPN-circus, and that is not what the Jaguars need right now.


I am not sure that is the Jaguars thinking. Their season goals were for a SuperBowl Run. The trade for Hyde shows that the Jaguars want to win now. I think the Jaguars are a little desperate anyway.

Eli would bring much needed veteran leadership to the team and he does have playoff experience.

If the Jaguars do trade for a QB, ut would be for a starter, so a media circus is likely anyway. At least if it is Eli, they could sell the Coughlin/Manning line.

Of course the Giants aren't likely to give Eli away, we somehow aren't completely out of the division yet, plus Eli has his no-trade clause so it would have to be somewhere Eli wants to be.
Coughlin  
phil in arizona : 10/22/2018 5:03 pm : link
would likely give us a lot for Eli. At this point, it'd be dumb not to take a solid offer.
David  
mdthedream : 10/22/2018 5:09 pm : link
Carr?
Jacksonville would  
cjd2404 : 10/22/2018 5:11 pm : link
be silly to even inquire about Eli. He is washed up and isn't worth it.

Now I can see them chasing Bridgewater. You get a few games to see how he's healed up, with a promise of a starter in the coming years.

Saints get their pick back (maybe even higher) for him too.
You have to be delusional to think  
Default : 10/22/2018 5:23 pm : link
any team is going to trade for Eli.
Francessa said that if Eli wins tonight  
Simms11 : 10/22/2018 5:23 pm : link
he won’t be in the discussion, but if they lose, he thinks he’ll be dangled for trade.
RE: Coughlin  
jcn56 : 10/22/2018 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14139544 phil in arizona said:
Quote:
would likely give us a lot for Eli. At this point, it'd be dumb not to take a solid offer.


I don't think we'd get a lot. No knock on Eli, but he's older and very expensive, and hasn't played at a high level for awhile now.

And that's fine - the point to trading him would be to give him a shot at resurrecting his career elsewhere, and to give the team a good exit from the Eli Manning era. The perfect scenario is he goes to Jax, does very well this year, has a great year next year and hangs them up. We get to insert another QB in his place, get cap relief from his salary next year, audition Lauletta and have a decision to make for QB going forward.

If we can get anything for Eli in this scenario, we should take it. We're going nowhere this year, with or without him.
RE: Oooh ooh ooh,  
micky : 10/22/2018 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14139411 Keith said:
Quote:
I know a team with a vet QB! I can see the Giants asking for a 1st or the Giants saying Eli isn't available because they still believe we can win.


Giants are too emotionally attached to eli to deal him
RE: Jacksonville would  
ron mexico : 10/22/2018 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14139553 cjd2404 said:
Quote:
be silly to even inquire about Eli. He is washed up and isn't worth it.

Now I can see them chasing Bridgewater. You get a few games to see how he's healed up, with a promise of a starter in the coming years.

Saints get their pick back (maybe even higher) for him too.


Saints have a legitimate shot at the SB this year. They are not going to trade away their backup and throw away their season in Brees has to miss some time.
It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Stan in LA : 10/22/2018 5:34 pm : link
Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?
RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Default : 10/22/2018 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14139586 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?


lol...
RE: trade eli to them for whatever they offer if they are interested  
baadbill : 10/22/2018 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14139422 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
can spin it like the franchise is sending him to a winner with a chance to compete.

solves PR problem with Eli and starts the transition


If Manning agreed, why would anyone have to spin anything?
RE: Everyone except Barkley should be available.  
baadbill : 10/22/2018 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14139427 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No need for sentimentality - we'd be doing Eli a favor anyway.


WTF are you talking about? Manning is in complete control over any trade. He doesn’t need any favors from you.
Jags aren't trading for Eli  
ZogZerg : 10/22/2018 5:41 pm : link
Stop already.

As someone mentioned in the other thread, it could be a Bradford or Bridgewater type.
RE: Coughlin  
clatterbuck : 10/22/2018 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14139544 phil in arizona said:
Quote:
would likely give us a lot for Eli. At this point, it'd be dumb not to take a solid offer.

Think about what you said: You really think Coughlin, a Jaguars senior exec, is the kind of person who would "give a lot" to the Giants, implying he would make a deal not in the best interests of the Jaguars? When did his integrity get compromised?
Tyrod Taylor anyone?  
Tuckrule : 10/22/2018 6:04 pm : link
Perfect qb for that team
RE: RE: Everyone except Barkley should be available.  
jcn56 : 10/22/2018 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14139596 baadbill said:
Quote:
In comment 14139427 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


No need for sentimentality - we'd be doing Eli a favor anyway.



WTF are you talking about? Manning is in complete control over any trade. He doesn’t need any favors from you.


And there's the sentimental behavior I think bc was referring to, since it's impossible to see how someone could take offense to that post.
Probably should have drafted Mahomes over  
St. Jimmy : 10/22/2018 6:09 pm : link
Fournette. They wouldn't have these problems.
Stan  
joeinpa : 10/22/2018 6:09 pm : link
I think you answered your own question when you stated, "They re tearing it up"
RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/22/2018 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14139586 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?


Brady and Brees are legendarily great players whom are significantly better than Eli that's how. Ben isn't in their class. He just had brilliant offensive players around him to keep him productive.
People also age differently  
jcn56 : 10/22/2018 6:14 pm : link
Eli was never the most mobile guy, add in age, a few years of tough hits behind a suspect OL, and it's not too far fetched to believe he fell off a year or two earlier than expected.

He wasn't the only one - how many players did we lose early to injuries or rapidly declining play?
RE: RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Stan in LA : 10/22/2018 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14139636 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14139586 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?



Brady and Brees are legendarily great players whom are significantly better than Eli that's how. Ben isn't in their class. He just had brilliant offensive players around him to keep him productive.

No, they play in significantly better systems. Put Eli in a similar system and he's right there with all 4. Even in this system he completed 45 of 50 passes in one stretch this season and not all dump-offs either.
RE: RE: Coughlin  
phil in arizona : 10/22/2018 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14139577 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14139544 phil in arizona said:


Quote:


would likely give us a lot for Eli. At this point, it'd be dumb not to take a solid offer.



I don't think we'd get a lot. No knock on Eli, but he's older and very expensive, and hasn't played at a high level for awhile now.

And that's fine - the point to trading him would be to give him a shot at resurrecting his career elsewhere, and to give the team a good exit from the Eli Manning era. The perfect scenario is he goes to Jax, does very well this year, has a great year next year and hangs them up. We get to insert another QB in his place, get cap relief from his salary next year, audition Lauletta and have a decision to make for QB going forward.

If we can get anything for Eli in this scenario, we should take it. We're going nowhere this year, with or without him.


Maybe 'a lot' was the wrong phrasing.
RE: RE: Coughlin  
phil in arizona : 10/22/2018 6:38 pm : link
In comment 14139607 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 14139544 phil in arizona said:


Quote:


would likely give us a lot for Eli. At this point, it'd be dumb not to take a solid offer.


Think about what you said: You really think Coughlin, a Jaguars senior exec, is the kind of person who would "give a lot" to the Giants, implying he would make a deal not in the best interests of the Jaguars? When did his integrity get compromised?


That's an amazing response.

RE: RE: RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/22/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14139647 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 14139636 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14139586 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?



Brady and Brees are legendarily great players whom are significantly better than Eli that's how. Ben isn't in their class. He just had brilliant offensive players around him to keep him productive.


No, they play in significantly better systems. Put Eli in a similar system and he's right there with all 4. Even in this system he completed 45 of 50 passes in one stretch this season and not all dump-offs either.


No he is not "right there with all four." Eli Manning isn't as talented as Tom Brady or Drew Brees, get outta here with this. In one paragraph you managed to both overrate Eli Manning and also paint two walking hall of famers as system quarterbacks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Stan in LA : 10/22/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14139662 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14139647 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 14139636 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14139586 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Rivers, Brees, Big Ben and Brady: 2 about the same age, 2 way older, are all tearing it up.

How does that work again?



Brady and Brees are legendarily great players whom are significantly better than Eli that's how. Ben isn't in their class. He just had brilliant offensive players around him to keep him productive.


No, they play in significantly better systems. Put Eli in a similar system and he's right there with all 4. Even in this system he completed 45 of 50 passes in one stretch this season and not all dump-offs either.



No he is not "right there with all four." Eli Manning isn't as talented as Tom Brady or Drew Brees, get outta here with this. In one paragraph you managed to both overrate Eli Manning and also paint two walking hall of famers as system quarterbacks.


That's your opinion. I differ.
Stan your opinion demonstrates  
joeinpa : 10/22/2018 6:53 pm : link
Why the Eli question is so hotly debated her

The spectrum of opinions range from Eli has never been that good, to you saying he s on par with Brady and Brees.

Truth is somewhere Between those two extremes no doubt.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny that Eli at age 37 is washed up but you have  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/22/2018 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14139667 Stan in LA said:
Quote:



That's your opinion. I differ.


You and quite literally the entire football world differ.
In a given game Eli could play with anyone  
Go Terps : 10/22/2018 6:58 pm : link
He beat the best of his peers (Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Favre) in huge games, including on the road in some adverse weather conditions. That can't ever be taken away from him. In a big game he frequently came up big. Even in the 2016 playoffs he played well while his receivers embarrassed themselves.

But in terms of sustained consistent performance, attention to detail, and command of the offense he is not in the same conversation as Brady and Brees. He just isn't.
probably  
larryinnewhaven : 10/22/2018 7:19 pm : link
Sam Bradford who the jags will then give another 20 million because every franchise that trades for him seems to think he is good.
RE: In a given game Eli could play with anyone  
rasbutant : 10/22/2018 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14139684 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He beat the best of his peers (Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Favre) in huge games, including on the road in some adverse weather conditions. That can't ever be taken away from him. In a big game he frequently came up big. Even in the 2016 playoffs he played well while his receivers embarrassed themselves.

But in terms of sustained consistent performance, attention to detail, and command of the offense he is not in the same conversation as Brady and Brees. He just isn't.


He is the same Eli that he always has been. I see no difference. He has always been slow, fumble prone, interception prone, slow starter. He needs to get into a rythem. He needs time and protection and receiver that run the route as designed, because he is throwing to a spot. He also is a leader, is humble win or lose, is realible, he is student of the game, is clutch, reads defense and throws to the matchup, he still has a strong arm i see no difference there. Given time he will pick a defense apart. Eli is a good QB, still. You can win with Eli, but Eli can't do it by himself, he isn't going to extend plays with his feet, you need a team around him. Eli will still be a starting QB in this league beyond this contract IF he wants to be. If you believe Eli is the problem then you must believe that from the first day, because his play has not changed.
RE: RE: In a given game Eli could play with anyone  
baadbill : 10/22/2018 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14139745 rasbutant said:
Quote:
In comment 14139684 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He beat the best of his peers (Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Favre) in huge games, including on the road in some adverse weather conditions. That can't ever be taken away from him. In a big game he frequently came up big. Even in the 2016 playoffs he played well while his receivers embarrassed themselves.

But in terms of sustained consistent performance, attention to detail, and command of the offense he is not in the same conversation as Brady and Brees. He just isn't.



He is the same Eli that he always has been. I see no difference. He has always been slow, fumble prone, interception prone, slow starter. He needs to get into a rythem. He needs time and protection and receiver that run the route as designed, because he is throwing to a spot. He also is a leader, is humble win or lose, is realible, he is student of the game, is clutch, reads defense and throws to the matchup, he still has a strong arm i see no difference there. Given time he will pick a defense apart. Eli is a good QB, still. You can win with Eli, but Eli can't do it by himself, he isn't going to extend plays with his feet, you need a team around him. Eli will still be a starting QB in this league beyond this contract IF he wants to be. If you believe Eli is the problem then you must believe that from the first day, because his play has not changed.


+1
RE: RE: In a given game Eli could play with anyone  
Britt in VA : 10/22/2018 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14139745 rasbutant said:
Quote:
In comment 14139684 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He beat the best of his peers (Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Favre) in huge games, including on the road in some adverse weather conditions. That can't ever be taken away from him. In a big game he frequently came up big. Even in the 2016 playoffs he played well while his receivers embarrassed themselves.

But in terms of sustained consistent performance, attention to detail, and command of the offense he is not in the same conversation as Brady and Brees. He just isn't.



He is the same Eli that he always has been. I see no difference. He has always been slow, fumble prone, interception prone, slow starter. He needs to get into a rythem. He needs time and protection and receiver that run the route as designed, because he is throwing to a spot. He also is a leader, is humble win or lose, is realible, he is student of the game, is clutch, reads defense and throws to the matchup, he still has a strong arm i see no difference there. Given time he will pick a defense apart. Eli is a good QB, still. You can win with Eli, but Eli can't do it by himself, he isn't going to extend plays with his feet, you need a team around him. Eli will still be a starting QB in this league beyond this contract IF he wants to be. If you believe Eli is the problem then you must believe that from the first day, because his play has not changed.


+2
I think Eli has changed in one fundamental way  
Go Terps : 10/22/2018 8:12 pm : link
He is more sensitive to the pass rush than he used to be. I think that is down to several factors beyond simply him taking years of punishment behind bad offensive lines. I think a big factor has been the change in offensive philosophy from Gilbride to McAdoo/Shurmur. The types of throws have changed, the timing has changed - everything has changed. And I don't think it's served Eli well.
RE: I think Eli has changed in one fundamental way  
Britt in VA : 10/22/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14139783 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He is more sensitive to the pass rush than he used to be. I think that is down to several factors beyond simply him taking years of punishment behind bad offensive lines. I think a big factor has been the change in offensive philosophy from Gilbride to McAdoo/Shurmur. The types of throws have changed, the timing has changed - everything has changed. And I don't think it's served Eli well.


Totally fair point, and I agree with that as well.
add footwork to that list, as well.  
Britt in VA : 10/22/2018 8:14 pm : link
.
This is not the same league that it was 10 years ago...  
EricJ : 10/22/2018 8:14 pm : link
I mentioned this on a thread over the weekend. The pass rushers are dominating the offensive line. They are more athletic. The average OL cannot sustain their blocks long enough for a QB to just stand there in the pocket and cleanly go through his progressions. Other than Brady, those days are gone.

Today, a QB must have the ability to extend plays with his legs. Roll out and change the angle of some of the throws. Adding the threat to run element is also extremely important in today's game.

This does not mean that every QB with mobility is going to be successful. He still has to have all of the other things (accuracy, leadership, ability to read defenses, change the protections, etc etc). What it does mean is in today's game your chances of success will be limited without it.
...  
christian : 10/22/2018 8:15 pm : link
I think Manning's throws across the field have considerable less zip. He still has nice touch, and can drop nice soft ones into the basket. But to my eyes he doesn't have the cannon he once had. I'm sure he can turn it up a few times a game. But that's one consistent difference I see.
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