There is absolutely now way that he couldlook back on his performances the past two weeks and honestly think that he is still a competent QB for this team. Absolutely gun shy, rushing through his reads where he misses TDs to guys like Barkley amd ODB in favor of 3 yard dump offs. The line has been terrible, but when they have held up, Eli misses throws. Shurmur has been terrible but he has called many plays that opened up down the field and Eli either didnt see it, missed the thtow or checked out to a dump off.
Eli Manning is completely done as a pro QB. Not just "for this situation" done in all regards. He plays afraid, hesitates from fear of throwing a pick, and lacks that killer instinct.
If he continues to claim he is the same QB that led them to two SBs, shame on him for merely chasing a paycheck at this point. While the larger egg lies on John Mara's face if he continues to put his faith in Eli's abilities, Eli has become all about the dollar at this point and fuck him for doing so.
But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
What more to discuss?
But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.
The new QB is going to step into a great situation.
So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?
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But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.
.
Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...
Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...
Make sure you consult the drunkards in section 212 first. Cause again, they know more than anyone else.
So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?
Nope that’s all there is. Good enough to still play QB. Not good enough to win consistently anymore in the NFL.
Eli has always played reasonably well indoors. And this was a game against swiss cheese Atlanta. So this was going to be a temporary deodorant to cover up this Eli nosedive.
But beyond the gaudy stats, as mentioned above, Eli couldn’t deliver when points were at stake. He’s bringing nothing to the table right now but experience. And that’s been worth one win so far.
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In comment 14142431 Knineteen said:
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AFTER Eli throws for 399 yards?
I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.
Shh...That's a "Micro Argument" whatever the fuck that means
I think you are being intentionally obtuse by saying you have never heard of a "microargument." A microargument is when you pount out a stand out stat or fact as way to combat an accusation of poor performance. In this example, pointing out Eli's 399 stupid yards is a microargument to the point of those critical of his incessant failures in the red zone, being skittish in his reads because of a poor O line and missing throws when they are there. Those 399 yards are also against one of the very worst defenses in football. Microargument.
Btw, you dont have to be INTENETIONALLY obtuse. We can see that you're obtuse when you arent deloberately so to make a point.
I know what it means I just don't see where it applies here given that I have pointed out his stats, the fact we had zero running game, and the hellish pressure he faced for the majority of the game. How is that a "Micro Argument"?
Now, seizing on a missed pass to OBJ now that would be a micro argument
The problem is the OL is always one breakdown away from killing a drive. They pick up a first down or two then bam sack, now it’s 2nd or 3rd and long. Sometimes they go extended stretches in games with bad play. Then we see multiple 3 and outs and then the defense is on the field forever.
Terrible OL and a weak pass rush on defense. Those are the root causes of the problems for the Giants right now.
I know Eli isn't the #1 culprit but I don't see anybody out there defending Nate Solder or Chad Wheeler. When I reference "micro arguments", I'm talking about a good chunk of this board's compulsion to point to one of our many issues as a means of saying "Eli is fine" when the reality is that he's the QB of a historically and consistently bad offense for 3 seasons now. He's open to criticism, especially on plays where our other issues aren't a factor. That's when you should be looking at him with a critical eye.
He should have thrown the ball to Beckham on the flare out instead of to Simonson. It was a tight window and needed a lot of touch, but he should have gone for it immediately.
Other than that, his lack of mobility is nothing new. A QB with mobility could extend plays and take off when defenses drop into coverage. And for that reason, given our O-line, it doesn't make sense to pay Eli next year what he is getting paid now. It's a losing strategy.
But it is strange to me to come away from last night's game with the take that Eli is the problem and the one stealing from the Giants.
The offensive line is as bad as any line I have ever seen in my life. They were getting blown off the line by 3-man rushes and Barkley has to break off contact by multiple defenders just to get to the line of scrimmage.
What's insane about this offensive line is that there isn't a single player on the line that is reliable. Solder was embarrassed by speed rushes all night, Hernandez is a rookie who lost quite a few battles when the DLineman makes a swim move to the inside, and the Center, RG, and RT, are all the type of guys who get cut in a Hard Knocks episode.
File this under the: I'm mad because I'm a fan so I'm going to call your character into question.
Fuckin bullshit.
Everyone noticed it from the analysts to catching the coaches and players.
PaulBlakeTSU : 10:06 am : link : reply
is the only QB in the league that is expected to be perfect.
Look at the Houston game. Eli played about as well as a QB can and did the Giants win by 20, maybe 30 points? No. They were in a tight game until the last 4 minutes.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
Outside of OBJ on 4th down... name the others.
I'd say he's earning his money.
He should have thrown the ball to Beckham on the flare out instead of to Simonson. It was a tight window and needed a lot of touch, but he should have gone for it immediately.
Other than that, his lack of mobility is nothing new. A QB with mobility could extend plays and take off when defenses drop into coverage. And for that reason, given our O-line, it doesn't make sense to pay Eli next year what he is getting paid now. It's a losing strategy.
But it is strange to me to come away from last night's game with the take that Eli is the problem and the one stealing from the Giants.
The offensive line is as bad as any line I have ever seen in my life. They were getting blown off the line by 3-man rushes and Barkley has to break off contact by multiple defenders just to get to the line of scrimmage.
What's insane about this offensive line is that there isn't a single player on the line that is reliable. Solder was embarrassed by speed rushes all night, Hernandez is a rookie who lost quite a few battles when the DLineman makes a swim move to the inside, and the Center, RG, and RT, are all the type of guys who get cut in a Hard Knocks episode.
Eli also had some awful clock management yesterday. Continuing the hurry up after the Shepard completion was mind boggling. Staying aggressive is one thing, but they've gotta milk the clock better there. You can't walk away with only a FG and enough time on the clock for ATL to respond.
And I don't know if it was Eli or Shurmur who called them, but those QB sneaks were idiotic and killed whatever small chance they had of winning.
And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
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it seems like Eli
PaulBlakeTSU : 10:06 am : link : reply
is the only QB in the league that is expected to be perfect.
Look at the Houston game. Eli played about as well as a QB can and did the Giants win by 20, maybe 30 points? No. They were in a tight game until the last 4 minutes.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
Here were things mentioned by MANY posters during and after the game that they blamed Eli for...
- It was partially his fault for Barkley not getting in on 3rd and 1 because he could have faked it and walked it in himself.
- It was his fault OBJ misread the defense on 2nd and goal because he was open and should have hit him regardless of the defense.
- he dink and dunked his way down the field (YPA was well over 10 - which is phenomenal.)
- he didnt lead his receivers
- he didnt throw the deep ball well (I believe he completed all of his deep passes)
- he didnt step up into a safety blitz pressure where barkley got steamrolled back into Eli
- He didnt avoid sacks where Hernandez and Solder essentially whiffed on their defenders.
- He didnt score enough points and thats his job. No one elses.
- He over threw Engram even though it was clear Engram ran the wrong route.
Theres about a million other things. That I just cant remember. But the best was it was his fault Barkley got stuffed on 3rd and 1. That was a hoot.
And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
See I am sorry, this is what gets me frustrated with BBI.
You are absolutely correct that Barkley and OBJ had 1 on 1 coverage. And they should be looked at. But Engram had NO ONE covering him and ran a terrible route. So whats more of a sure thing. Throwing to a guy who is being covered or not covered?
If Eli had thrown to OBJ and Barkley and there was good defense - the idiot who posts the all-22 and all the bad things Eli does would point out that no one guarded Engram and he would get crucified for that.
Engram was wide open with room to run. He has to read the defense and get that completion.
Eli isn't a guy to run RPO, either.
So yes, Eli is viewed more critically (though a large part of that is the fact this is a Giants MB) and arguably held to a higher standard, but that's at least in part due to his limitations leave little margin for error.
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And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
See I am sorry, this is what gets me frustrated with BBI.
You are absolutely correct that Barkley and OBJ had 1 on 1 coverage. And they should be looked at. But Engram had NO ONE covering him and ran a terrible route. So whats more of a sure thing. Throwing to a guy who is being covered or not covered?
If Eli had thrown to OBJ and Barkley and there was good defense - the idiot who posts the all-22 and all the bad things Eli does would point out that no one guarded Engram and he would get crucified for that.
Engram was wide open with room to run. He has to read the defense and get that completion.
Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
What brilliant irony.
But no my fat friend in Charlotte. The team and circumstances need to perfect around Eli for this team to have a chance to win. You have it backwards.
Not sure why this continues to be so hard for your ilk to understand.
Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
1. No you dont. You throw to the uncovered guy 10 times out of 10.
2. Engram msot definitely ran the wrong route becuase he was open immediately and ran into a place where he didnt have to. Eli was pretty demonstrative and so were the analysts.
The team is really bad right now. And when you have a unit as poor as the OL, that one mistake in a drive is a killer. It could be a sack, a penalty, a 4 yard loss on a running play. Whatever it is - it derails a drive. That's not just on Eli. That'z the impact of having a shitty OL and why teams with shitty OL's don't often win.
It is also why clamoring for a mobile QB sounds great, but he'll still have to deal with the OL having penalties, giving up sacks, and leaving the team in a 2nd and long because of a jailbreak on a rushing attempt.
The need for perfection isn't for Eli. It is for the OL.
ponderous...
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Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
1. No you dont. You throw to the uncovered guy 10 times out of 10.
2. Engram msot definitely ran the wrong route becuase he was open immediately and ran into a place where he didnt have to. Eli was pretty demonstrative and so were the analysts.
Analysts said Engram ran the wrong route. They (Witten) also said Beckham should've been the target. Those 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.
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he also had lots of opportunities and left plays and throws on the field.
Outside of OBJ on 4th down... name the others.
On the third down play in the red zone he stayed in the pocket forever rather than getting out and trying to make something happen. Result was a sack.
Jimmy Googs : 10:40 am : link : reply
will still suck?
ponderous...
Yes - when the next QB has to play behind this porous line and the defense can't get crucial stops, the team will still suck.
You'd probably have to make football posts to understand that - or you could just keep resorting to the one word response.
And that is what's fucking ponderous.
I’m so close to giving up really following pro sports and it’s because of the never ending incessant dialogue about player contracts and salary and cap dynamics. I get it the dynamic and how important cap mgmt is, but it’s a weak and stupid talking point. It has absolutely ruined the escapism of pro sports. And here’s the thing, I WANT these guys to get paid. The More they earn the better to me. Most fans can’t fucking handle it.
perfect...
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When the next guy up isn't perfect, the team
Jimmy Googs : 10:40 am : link : reply
will still suck?
ponderous...
Yes - when the next QB has to play behind this porous line and the defense can't get crucial stops, the team will still suck.
You'd probably have to make football posts to understand that - or you could just keep resorting to the one word response.
And that is what's fucking ponderous.
I don't know why anyone wastes time with this raging fuckwit, kudos to your patience FMiC
I’m so close to giving up really following pro sports and it’s because of the never ending incessant dialogue about player contracts and salary and cap dynamics. I get it the dynamic and how important cap mgmt is, but it’s a weak and stupid talking point. It has absolutely ruined the escapism of pro sports. And here’s the thing, I WANT these guys to get paid. The More they earn the better to me. Most fans can’t fucking handle it.
It’s easy. The salary cap is a constraint. Assuming equal performance, a player earning less money is better for the team/org than a player making more money. That’s why fans care.
Most people don’t give a shit about the level of Eli Manning’s income in a personal/life sense. It’s all about opportunity cost to the team, perceived or otherwise.
Even in sports with no hard cap, it’s the same explanation. There’s an underlying assumption that money is a constraint and ownership has some limit on the amount of money it’s willing to spend.
You don’t have to like it, but if it strictly doesn’t make sense to you, it sounds like a you problem and not an everyone else problem.
The team is really bad right now. And when you have a unit as poor as the OL, that one mistake in a drive is a killer. It could be a sack, a penalty, a 4 yard loss on a running play. Whatever it is - it derails a drive. That's not just on Eli. That'z the impact of having a shitty OL and why teams with shitty OL's don't often win.
It is also why clamoring for a mobile QB sounds great, but he'll still have to deal with the OL having penalties, giving up sacks, and leaving the team in a 2nd and long because of a jailbreak on a rushing attempt.
The need for perfection isn't for Eli. It is for the OL.
It's more than Eli's lack of mobility - in the sense of making plays out of the pocket.
He's lost pocket awareness. All too often he slides laterally against the rush instead of stepping into the pocket.
Further, it's clearly his decision making is waning. We've seen clear examples where Shurmur has yelled at Eli to make the better decision - "throw the ball!" (against Philly) and "throw it to Odell!" (last night against Atl). His ability to process and execute are a major problem.
And when he does make the right decision, in the sense he's picked out the right option, too many times his timing and accuracy are below average due to his footwork and mechanics falling apart.
I can't equally distribute blame - Eli and OL - because Eli is the guy who is paid to make plays. And it's just naive and unreasonable to expect everything to be comfortable in professional football.
The guys you pay $20M a year have to identify and throw to the open receiver in the red zone. They also need to catch the ball on a crucial two point conversion.
You want to get paid like an elite player, then be elite. Otherwise paying you is a mistake. The Giants' roster is filled with mistakes.
Dude's 37, at the tail end of his career. If he played for a well-run organization then Eli would probably be far better than Peyton was in final years...
Dude's 37, at the tail end of his career. If he played for a well-run organization then Eli would probably be far better than Peyton was in final years...
You might be on to something. The ONLY reason anybody would be critical of Eli's play is because he slept with their mother. That's it. Only one I can think of.
The guys you pay $20M a year have to identify and throw to the open receiver in the red zone. They also need to catch the ball on a crucial two point conversion.
You want to get paid like an elite player, then be elite. Otherwise paying you is a mistake. The Giants' roster is filled with mistakes.
There is a couple of problems with your argument. You know as a poster you don't like anyone getting paid. OBJ for example had easily outperformed his contract and yet you didn't want us to pay him. When any player outperforms his contract no one is clamoring for them to get more money.
Eli is making what he is making because it was a long term contract that was re-negotiated multiple times, with money back loaded to help the team out at the time.