There is absolutely now way that he couldlook back on his performances the past two weeks and honestly think that he is still a competent QB for this team. Absolutely gun shy, rushing through his reads where he misses TDs to guys like Barkley amd ODB in favor of 3 yard dump offs. The line has been terrible, but when they have held up, Eli misses throws. Shurmur has been terrible but he has called many plays that opened up down the field and Eli either didnt see it, missed the thtow or checked out to a dump off.
Eli Manning is completely done as a pro QB. Not just "for this situation" done in all regards. He plays afraid, hesitates from fear of throwing a pick, and lacks that killer instinct.
If he continues to claim he is the same QB that led them to two SBs, shame on him for merely chasing a paycheck at this point. While the larger egg lies on John Mara's face if he continues to put his faith in Eli's abilities, Eli has become all about the dollar at this point and fuck him for doing so.
But let's discuss it tomorrow. Tonight was a complete shitshow. Everyone is pissed, frustrated and feels like it's another season lost.
Plus, the stupidity with the play calls was icing on the shitcake.
Let's get back at it tomorrow.
Let's give him a night retire us jersey if you want, but I can't watch him play anymore because I know what I am seeing and at age 38 it can't get any better. Thanks for the memories.....next
Dep. Don't be a Douchebag. Eli was a major culprit in the loss tonight.
399 yards is fine, despite never having a lead. But the hurry up at the end of the half, the sneaks costing valuable time and his limited abilities as a mobile athlete are apparent.
I'm not advocating nuking Eli at this point considering the record, but please don't be blind.
Despite dismal O-line play that had him harassed and hit numerous times -167 to Shep and 140 to OBJ , doesn't sound like a QB that's "done".
When Shurmer finally went to "max protect", Atlanta couldn't stop our passing offense ....
And that's with another thoroughbred in the stable that is kept at the L.O.S. wrestling 300 pound sweat hogs instead of split wide.
Despite dismal O-line play that had him harassed and hit numerous times -167 to Shep and 140 to OBJ , doesn't sound like a QB that's "done".
When Shurmer finally went to "max protect", Atlanta couldn't stop our passing offense ....
And that's with another thoroughbred in the stable that is kept at the L.O.S. wrestling 300 pound sweat hogs instead of split wide.
Manny - Ryan's oline was just as bad. Ryan just made plays that Eli did not.
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Despite dismal O-line play that had him harassed and hit numerous times -167 to Shep and 140 to OBJ , doesn't sound like a QB that's "done".
When Shurmer finally went to "max protect", Atlanta couldn't stop our passing offense ....
And that's with another thoroughbred in the stable that is kept at the L.O.S. wrestling 300 pound sweat hogs instead of split wide.
Manny - Ryan's oline was just as bad. Ryan just made plays that Eli did not.
Ryan wasn’t touched after the first quarter.
Oh, great....more opinions from dep! Just what this place needs.
You are mocked on every single thread you post on, told me via email that you were done with this site, yet here you are. Honestly wouldnt care if I didnt see you battling every day with 15 posters calling you an idiot.
B. Im more or less referring to how he treats this offseason. If he doesnt retire, it is very clear what he is all about. If he were running around looking downfield all game and taking sacks that way, I wouldnt care. But he is letting his team down in a way that I have never seen a two time champion do. If he doesnt retire at the end of the year, its all about the money.
I don't see the point in piling on, even the most ardent Eli guy has conceded that it's time to move on. Now, if we're going to debate whether he should be our guy next year? That's a different animal. We absolutely have to move on next season, even if our options are limited and that means Lauletta. This franchise has to try something new next year because it's a wash between Eli and any reasonable replacement minus any upside.
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Dep. Don't be a Douchebag. Eli was a major culprit in the loss tonight.
399 yards is fine, despite never having a lead. But the hurry up at the end of the half, the sneaks costing valuable time and his limited abilities as a mobile athlete are apparent.
I'm not advocating nuking Eli at this point considering the record, but please don't be blind.
Asking Dep not to be a douchebag is like asking an alligator not to have wrinkles.
I don't see the point in piling on, even the most ardent Eli guy has conceded that it's time to move on. Now, if we're going to debate whether he should be our guy next year? That's a different animal. We absolutely have to move on next season, even if our options are limited and that means Lauletta. This franchise has to try something new next year because it's a wash between Eli and any reasonable replacement minus any upside.
This is more or less what Im saying.
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In comment 14142373 Manny in CA said:
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Despite dismal O-line play that had him harassed and hit numerous times -167 to Shep and 140 to OBJ , doesn't sound like a QB that's "done".
When Shurmer finally went to "max protect", Atlanta couldn't stop our passing offense ....
And that's with another thoroughbred in the stable that is kept at the L.O.S. wrestling 300 pound sweat hogs instead of split wide.
Manny - Ryan's oline was just as bad. Ryan just made plays that Eli did not.
Ryan wasn’t touched after the first quarter.
And neither was Eli. All 4 sacks were 1st half and Ryan's 3 were 1st half.
He was harassed all game like Eli. Please stop. He moved. He stepped up. He got the ball out of his hand.
McAddo threw Eli under the bus in the media, and Shurmur is kinda/sorta doing it on the sideline at times and getting caught.
Who is down for an old fashioned torches and pitchforks mob at Omameh's house???
McAddo threw Eli under the bus in the media, and Shurmur is kinda/sorta doing it on the sideline at times and getting caught.
Shurmur needs to look in the mirror first. He has ZERO clout as a head coach. We should ask him at what point when you need two yards and throwing it back 8 yards from the LOS is a good idea.
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
Nope. Im not going to tell you because then you would just rationalize why it wasnt Eli's fault. If you were watching the game closely he had a chance to let Odell and Engram make a play for a score. Also, I dont care what they say on that Odell pass....he was wide open. Even if Odell doesnt have the right timing, there was a huge window to make that an accurate throw.
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has got caught multiple times now screaming on the sideline to either 'throw the ball now' or 'throw it to *insert WR name here*.'
McAddo threw Eli under the bus in the media, and Shurmur is kinda/sorta doing it on the sideline at times and getting caught.
Shurmur needs to look in the mirror first. He has ZERO clout as a head coach. We should ask him at what point when you need two yards and throwing it back 8 yards from the LOS is a good idea.
That's what I'm saying. It's not a good look for the head coach, even IF it IS Eli's fault on a particular play. You can't show up ANY of your players on the sideline like that. Just can't do it.
Bottom line; this organization from top to bottom is a fucking disaster and it's insanely past time to fix it already.
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
That's the back of the endzone play? Appears to be Eli to me and I remember Hasselback actually criticizing Eli there in the post game (which is rare as he usually defends).
The biggest play to me was the 4th down play where OBJ was iso'd against a single defender and Eli decided to prematurely fastball it into Simonson's gut in tight coverage instead of throwing a touch pass to OBJ in the back of the endzone. That's the play where the internet caught Shurmur mouthing "throw it to Odell". It was a design to Beckham where Eli lost his cool and made a bad choice. Another is the throw to Shephard that connected on the first scoring drive. It turned into a long completion but Shepard had his man beat, a dart on his inside shoulder may go for 6 but he has to adjust to an underthrown outside shoulder throw. I think Eli put it there on purpose but that was a poor decision by him. Those are two big ones off the top of my head that would have been an extra 11 points.
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Where he missed Beckham for a TD?
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
Nope. Im not going to tell you because then you would just rationalize why it wasnt Eli's fault. If you were watching the game closely he had a chance to let Odell and Engram make a play for a score. Also, I dont care what they say on that Odell pass....he was wide open. Even if Odell doesnt have the right timing, there was a huge window to make that an accurate throw.
It's a timing throw, so if Odell doesn't have the right timing, the window is Manning throwing to the spot. Odell's timing being off means he doesn't get to the spot. The extra steps he wasted he might have been to the spot to catch the pass. But We will never know because he was dancing to fake out the guy in man coverage when he was in zone.
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Where he missed Beckham for a TD?
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
Nope. Im not going to tell you because then you would just rationalize why it wasnt Eli's fault. If you were watching the game closely he had a chance to let Odell and Engram make a play for a score. Also, I dont care what they say on that Odell pass....he was wide open. Even if Odell doesnt have the right timing, there was a huge window to make that an accurate throw.
But you do realize Eli is throwing it to a spot where he expects OBJ to be? It’s a timing route.
Listen Eli has a lot of flaws. But on a play where EVERY analyst said OBJ screwed up, showed why he screwed up and the reason he screwed up... well maybe we don’t blame OBJ for that one.
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Where he missed Beckham for a TD?
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
That's the back of the endzone play? Appears to be Eli to me and I remember Hasselback actually criticizing Eli there in the post game (which is rare as he usually defends).
The biggest play to me was the 4th down play where OBJ was iso'd against a single defender and Eli decided to prematurely fastball it into Simonson's gut in tight coverage instead of throwing a touch pass to OBJ in the back of the endzone. That's the play where the internet caught Shurmur mouthing "throw it to Odell". It was a design to Beckham where Eli lost his cool and made a bad choice. Another is the throw to Shephard that connected on the first scoring drive. It turned into a long completion but Shepard had his man beat, a dart on his inside shoulder may go for 6 but he has to adjust to an underthrown outside shoulder throw. I think Eli put it there on purpose but that was a poor decision by him. Those are two big ones off the top of my head that would have been an extra 11 points.
He didn't prematurely throw it into Simonson's gut, he literally had odell but probably thought it was too tight and went to his next read, then went to Simonson, I think Elison was behind Odell which was probably read 2. He had odell though and should have hit him quick.
Eli hit Sheppard on that throw and it was about 45 yards in the air in my altered state of doing mathematics. I don't think Eli ever makes that throw when it turns to 6. The other DB was coming over from the other side of the field with a decent angle so more than likely a better throw only gains at best 10 more yards before he would've been tackled by the other DB.
Frankly pin pointing all these little plays when he went for just short of 400 yards is missing our failures in this game. Lack of blocking in the first half set us up to not succeed. The protection got better as the game went on but our Oline set the stage in the first half for our lack on "rythm"
He had no running game for the entire 4 qtrs and 1-2 secs to throw the ball for 3 qtrs. Seriously, WTF do you expect?
Don't speak for me dep. This is a disaster. Nothing will resonate tonight. That's it.
Why are we still having this debate?
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In comment 14142400 dep026 said:
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Where he missed Beckham for a TD?
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
That's the back of the endzone play? Appears to be Eli to me and I remember Hasselback actually criticizing Eli there in the post game (which is rare as he usually defends).
The biggest play to me was the 4th down play where OBJ was iso'd against a single defender and Eli decided to prematurely fastball it into Simonson's gut in tight coverage instead of throwing a touch pass to OBJ in the back of the endzone. That's the play where the internet caught Shurmur mouthing "throw it to Odell". It was a design to Beckham where Eli lost his cool and made a bad choice. Another is the throw to Shephard that connected on the first scoring drive. It turned into a long completion but Shepard had his man beat, a dart on his inside shoulder may go for 6 but he has to adjust to an underthrown outside shoulder throw. I think Eli put it there on purpose but that was a poor decision by him. Those are two big ones off the top of my head that would have been an extra 11 points.
He didn't prematurely throw it into Simonson's gut, he literally had odell but probably thought it was too tight and went to his next read, then went to Simonson, I think Elison was behind Odell which was probably read 2. He had odell though and should have hit him quick.
Eli hit Sheppard on that throw and it was about 45 yards in the air in my altered state of doing mathematics. I don't think Eli ever makes that throw when it turns to 6. The other DB was coming over from the other side of the field with a decent angle so more than likely a better throw only gains at best 10 more yards before he would've been tackled by the other DB.
Frankly pin pointing all these little plays when he went for just short of 400 yards is missing our failures in this game. Lack of blocking in the first half set us up to not succeed. The protection got better as the game went on but our Oline set the stage in the first half for our lack on "rythm"
400 yards with a 71% completion percentage and zero running game for 4 qtrs. The fact we could not sniff a decent running game and accomplishing those stats it's ridiculous to complain about Eli
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This is a poor look for you chopper. Like B said... you’re better than this. Sleep it off my friend.
Don't speak for me dep. This is a disaster. Nothing will resonate tonight. That's it.
Apologies. You went the route that I should have.
I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.
Oh, so I shouldn't bring up the fact he was 13 for 15 in the first half while completely under siege. Take your own fucking advice and understand that this game involves a team effort, That this game requires multiple moving parts to work in cohesion with each other and sitting here blaming a QB with no running game who just put up 400 yards while constantly under pressure has to be about the most absurd line of argument one could make
I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.
Shh...That's a "Micro Argument" whatever the fuck that means
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AFTER Eli throws for 399 yards?
I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.
Shh...That's a "Micro Argument" whatever the fuck that means
I think you are being intentionally obtuse by saying you have never heard of a "microargument." A microargument is when you pount out a stand out stat or fact as way to combat an accusation of poor performance. In this example, pointing out Eli's 399 stupid yards is a microargument to the point of those critical of his incessant failures in the red zone, being skittish in his reads because of a poor O line and missing throws when they are there. Those 399 yards are also against one of the very worst defenses in football. Microargument.
Btw, you dont have to be INTENETIONALLY obtuse. We can see that you're obtuse when you arent deloberately so to make a point.
The only play I saw that could be construed is the one where OBJ misread the coverage and ran the route as if it were man rather than zone?
And before I get called out for this... Witten, Young, and Matt Hasselebck said the same exact thing. Hasselbeck also slowed it down and showed all the extra movement as to why OBJ thought it was man. He said OBJ misread the coverage.
Throw to Odell - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Another BBI gem. Just a troll at this point.
We are criticizing Eli for throwing the ball that hit the player in the hands. Think about that.
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Oh, great....more opinions from dep! Just what this place needs.
You are mocked on every single thread you post on, told me via email that you were done with this site, yet here you are. Honestly wouldnt care if I didnt see you battling every day with 15 posters calling you an idiot.
B. Im more or less referring to how he treats this offseason. If he doesnt retire, it is very clear what he is all about. If he were running around looking downfield all game and taking sacks that way, I wouldnt care. But he is letting his team down in a way that I have never seen a two time champion do. If he doesnt retire at the end of the year, its all about the money.
The 3rd and 2 play where he immediately threw it to Barkley 6 yds behind the LOS with 3 defenders waiting for him did it for me... he cannot move in the pocket, cannot throw a screen pass , can not throw on the run , and misses too many wide open receivers in big spots.
Love what Eli has done for NYG but it’s easy to see they need a QB with some mobility. Its not fair to Eli what the Giants have done to his career the last 5-6 years. Time to move on after the bye...
jam the ball to a 3rd string street tight end covered or throw to main option right in front of your face.
its a bad play period-
the ball to the corner of the endzone is a different story.
this one however is horrible
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In comment 14142360 dep026 said:
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Oh, great....more opinions from dep! Just what this place needs.
You are mocked on every single thread you post on, told me via email that you were done with this site, yet here you are. Honestly wouldnt care if I didnt see you battling every day with 15 posters calling you an idiot.
B. Im more or less referring to how he treats this offseason. If he doesnt retire, it is very clear what he is all about. If he were running around looking downfield all game and taking sacks that way, I wouldnt care. But he is letting his team down in a way that I have never seen a two time champion do. If he doesnt retire at the end of the year, its all about the money.
The 3rd and 2 play where he immediately threw it to Barkley 6 yds behind the LOS with 3 defenders waiting for him did it for me... he cannot move in the pocket, cannot throw a screen pass , can not throw on the run , and misses too many wide open receivers in big spots.
Love what Eli has done for NYG but it’s easy to see they need a QB with some mobility. Its not fair to Eli what the Giants have done to his career the last 5-6 years. Time to move on after the bye...
You know that was a designed play and it was the only person he could throw too? The WRs were blocking and our OL were downfield.
That wasn’t a dump off, that was the called play.
Manning face after a big sack has become a league joke as is the fact that he’s catnip for struggling opposing defenses. They can barely hide their excitement knowing they are going up against a QB who runs slower than most linemen
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In comment 14142380 chopperhatch said:
But you have to sell it !!! Not just call hike and throw it to him that far behind the LOS!
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In comment 14142360 dep026 said:
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Oh, great....more opinions from dep! Just what this place needs.
You are mocked on every single thread you post on, told me via email that you were done with this site, yet here you are. Honestly wouldnt care if I didnt see you battling every day with 15 posters calling you an idiot.
B. Im more or less referring to how he treats this offseason. If he doesnt retire, it is very clear what he is all about. If he were running around looking downfield all game and taking sacks that way, I wouldnt care. But he is letting his team down in a way that I have never seen a two time champion do. If he doesnt retire at the end of the year, its all about the money.
The 3rd and 2 play where he immediately threw it to Barkley 6 yds behind the LOS with 3 defenders waiting for him did it for me... he cannot move in the pocket, cannot throw a screen pass , can not throw on the run , and misses too many wide open receivers in big spots.
Love what Eli has done for NYG but it’s easy to see they need a QB with some mobility. Its not fair to Eli what the Giants have done to his career the last 5-6 years. Time to move on after the bye...
You know that was a designed play and it was the only person he could throw too? The WRs were blocking and our OL were downfield.
That wasn’t a dump off, that was the called play.
If that was the designed call than it was a pretty shitty call with a trio of defenders waiting for him.
If that was the designed call than it was a pretty shitty call with a trio of defenders waiting for him.
There’s nothing to sell on the play. It was just a horrendous call.
...putting aside his age/salary, is that there are a minimum of 15 other QBs in the NFL who can create something when the blocking breaks down, ESPECIALLY in the red zone.
Last night, Giants were knocking on the door and on 3rd down the Falcons rushed 3 guys. Eli had a lot of time, couldn't find anyone, but rather than extend the play by rolling out (and putting maximum pressure on defense) Eli did a half turn into the waiting arms of the defensive tackle.
Eli poses zero threat to a defense in the red zone and that's a very large reason why the Giants are the worst team in the NFL.
For those very few Eli hold outs, prepare yourselves for the inevitable: Our 2-time Super Bowl MVP is finished and will not be on the 2019 roster.
Waited about 1.2 seconds.
And let’s not put engram in that group. Laid a humongous egg.
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20 points versus one of the worst defenses in the league. Forget the line, a QB that can be creative in the pocket destroys that team. Instead Eli sits in the pocket and waits to be sacked.
Waited about 1.2 seconds.
And let’s not put engram in that group. Laid a humongous egg.
If Eli could learn how to slide and step up and roll instead of planting his feet like they had cement in them, he would have more than 1.2 seconds. QBs sometimes have to make plays to get defenders off the refeivers, Eli does not have that ability.
And engram has the ability to be a game changing receiving tight end. His blocking does him no favors but this offense should leave the defense guessing every play, instead it's the most predictable one I've seen in years.
Reading some of these threads, you just described yourself perfectly.
The irony here is strong
Vicious. Could have been roughing the passer...
Eli wants to play and wants to win, physically he just can’t. He’s not stealing money, he’s just having a hard time grasping the fact that he’s done.
We are criticizing Eli for throwing the ball that hit the player in the hands. Think about that.
Odell was wide open for an easy touchdown and he threw it across his body into coverage. Holy shit dep get off the high horse.
He wasn’t terrible last night, he wasn’t our worst player last night but there are opportunities he left on the field.
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To Odell here but he also put it on the hands of another player.
We are criticizing Eli for throwing the ball that hit the player in the hands. Think about that.
Odell was wide open for an easy touchdown and he threw it across his body into coverage. Holy shit dep get off the high horse.
He wasn’t terrible last night, he wasn’t our worst player last night but there are opportunities he left on the field.
Agreed. Again, the miss to Odell was probably his most glaring mistake. But the fact we need to nitpick a 400 yard performance when....
We couldn’t run it to save our life
We forced one punt in the last 3 quarters
Eli threw for 400 yards
He threw it deep very accurately
He was hitting intermediate routes that went for big chunks
He was given ZERO protection in the first half
I mean there have been a lot of times to crucify Eli this year. Last night was not one of them.
We also could have won if Eli played better than an average QB. He had a good game statistically, but he left plenty of plays out there. Reminder - the Falcons D stinks.
Eli didn't lose us the game though. He made some good plays, some bad ones, and left quite a few incomplete that could have changed the course of the game for the better.
So did Odell, Shepard, Barkley, our OL, Engram, Simonson....
Nevermind IAEF.
That's twice now for some inexplicable reason Eli is trying to force a ball to that guy, who was just as surprised as I was that he was targeted.
So you’re saying those others players didn’t cost us points, only Eli? It’s a simple question.
No playoff wins in 7 years
Ownership not changing
Management and coaching changed
QB is next and we are watching the farewell
4-19
We are arguably the worst team in the league
IMO We need 8 new starters including a QB
What is your number ?
Lol... this place.
Lol... this place.
he wasnt awful but when you cant execute in the redzone then its mostly for nothing- the miss on OBJ on the roll out was there chance ---- other times they stall because he is zero threat and the defense knows that---
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Means he didn’t play well. Moving up and down the field with basically no run game means nothing.
Lol... this place.
he wasnt awful but when you cant execute in the redzone then its mostly for nothing- the miss on OBJ on the roll out was there chance ---- other times they stall because he is zero threat and the defense knows that---
Ok I agree he missed OBJ there. But blaming the game on a play like that is like blaming OBJ for the game because he misread a defense or blaming Barkley because he couldnt get in the end zone on 3rd and goal.
We moved the ball pretty well last night. We were in the their red zone 6 times. Thats where the game was lost.
Eli missed OBJ
OBJ misread a defense
Some pretty poor play design
Engram not reading a defense on a simple out pattern.
Our FB and TE getting blown up on 3rd and goal
This is why we arent good. I know people like to blame Eli for everything, but even our best players make mistakes that cost us. We are a losing franchise right now with some very good players. Which is the maddening part.
But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
What more to discuss?
But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.
The new QB is going to step into a great situation.
So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?
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But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.
.
Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...
Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...
Make sure you consult the drunkards in section 212 first. Cause again, they know more than anyone else.
So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?
Nope that’s all there is. Good enough to still play QB. Not good enough to win consistently anymore in the NFL.
Eli has always played reasonably well indoors. And this was a game against swiss cheese Atlanta. So this was going to be a temporary deodorant to cover up this Eli nosedive.
But beyond the gaudy stats, as mentioned above, Eli couldn’t deliver when points were at stake. He’s bringing nothing to the table right now but experience. And that’s been worth one win so far.
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In comment 14142431 Knineteen said:
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AFTER Eli throws for 399 yards?
I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.
Shh...That's a "Micro Argument" whatever the fuck that means
I think you are being intentionally obtuse by saying you have never heard of a "microargument." A microargument is when you pount out a stand out stat or fact as way to combat an accusation of poor performance. In this example, pointing out Eli's 399 stupid yards is a microargument to the point of those critical of his incessant failures in the red zone, being skittish in his reads because of a poor O line and missing throws when they are there. Those 399 yards are also against one of the very worst defenses in football. Microargument.
Btw, you dont have to be INTENETIONALLY obtuse. We can see that you're obtuse when you arent deloberately so to make a point.
I know what it means I just don't see where it applies here given that I have pointed out his stats, the fact we had zero running game, and the hellish pressure he faced for the majority of the game. How is that a "Micro Argument"?
Now, seizing on a missed pass to OBJ now that would be a micro argument
The problem is the OL is always one breakdown away from killing a drive. They pick up a first down or two then bam sack, now it’s 2nd or 3rd and long. Sometimes they go extended stretches in games with bad play. Then we see multiple 3 and outs and then the defense is on the field forever.
Terrible OL and a weak pass rush on defense. Those are the root causes of the problems for the Giants right now.
I know Eli isn't the #1 culprit but I don't see anybody out there defending Nate Solder or Chad Wheeler. When I reference "micro arguments", I'm talking about a good chunk of this board's compulsion to point to one of our many issues as a means of saying "Eli is fine" when the reality is that he's the QB of a historically and consistently bad offense for 3 seasons now. He's open to criticism, especially on plays where our other issues aren't a factor. That's when you should be looking at him with a critical eye.
He should have thrown the ball to Beckham on the flare out instead of to Simonson. It was a tight window and needed a lot of touch, but he should have gone for it immediately.
Other than that, his lack of mobility is nothing new. A QB with mobility could extend plays and take off when defenses drop into coverage. And for that reason, given our O-line, it doesn't make sense to pay Eli next year what he is getting paid now. It's a losing strategy.
But it is strange to me to come away from last night's game with the take that Eli is the problem and the one stealing from the Giants.
The offensive line is as bad as any line I have ever seen in my life. They were getting blown off the line by 3-man rushes and Barkley has to break off contact by multiple defenders just to get to the line of scrimmage.
What's insane about this offensive line is that there isn't a single player on the line that is reliable. Solder was embarrassed by speed rushes all night, Hernandez is a rookie who lost quite a few battles when the DLineman makes a swim move to the inside, and the Center, RG, and RT, are all the type of guys who get cut in a Hard Knocks episode.
File this under the: I'm mad because I'm a fan so I'm going to call your character into question.
Fuckin bullshit.
Everyone noticed it from the analysts to catching the coaches and players.
PaulBlakeTSU : 10:06 am : link : reply
is the only QB in the league that is expected to be perfect.
Look at the Houston game. Eli played about as well as a QB can and did the Giants win by 20, maybe 30 points? No. They were in a tight game until the last 4 minutes.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
Outside of OBJ on 4th down... name the others.
I'd say he's earning his money.
He should have thrown the ball to Beckham on the flare out instead of to Simonson. It was a tight window and needed a lot of touch, but he should have gone for it immediately.
Other than that, his lack of mobility is nothing new. A QB with mobility could extend plays and take off when defenses drop into coverage. And for that reason, given our O-line, it doesn't make sense to pay Eli next year what he is getting paid now. It's a losing strategy.
But it is strange to me to come away from last night's game with the take that Eli is the problem and the one stealing from the Giants.
The offensive line is as bad as any line I have ever seen in my life. They were getting blown off the line by 3-man rushes and Barkley has to break off contact by multiple defenders just to get to the line of scrimmage.
What's insane about this offensive line is that there isn't a single player on the line that is reliable. Solder was embarrassed by speed rushes all night, Hernandez is a rookie who lost quite a few battles when the DLineman makes a swim move to the inside, and the Center, RG, and RT, are all the type of guys who get cut in a Hard Knocks episode.
Eli also had some awful clock management yesterday. Continuing the hurry up after the Shepard completion was mind boggling. Staying aggressive is one thing, but they've gotta milk the clock better there. You can't walk away with only a FG and enough time on the clock for ATL to respond.
And I don't know if it was Eli or Shurmur who called them, but those QB sneaks were idiotic and killed whatever small chance they had of winning.
And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
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it seems like Eli
PaulBlakeTSU : 10:06 am : link : reply
is the only QB in the league that is expected to be perfect.
Look at the Houston game. Eli played about as well as a QB can and did the Giants win by 20, maybe 30 points? No. They were in a tight game until the last 4 minutes.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
Here were things mentioned by MANY posters during and after the game that they blamed Eli for...
- It was partially his fault for Barkley not getting in on 3rd and 1 because he could have faked it and walked it in himself.
- It was his fault OBJ misread the defense on 2nd and goal because he was open and should have hit him regardless of the defense.
- he dink and dunked his way down the field (YPA was well over 10 - which is phenomenal.)
- he didnt lead his receivers
- he didnt throw the deep ball well (I believe he completed all of his deep passes)
- he didnt step up into a safety blitz pressure where barkley got steamrolled back into Eli
- He didnt avoid sacks where Hernandez and Solder essentially whiffed on their defenders.
- He didnt score enough points and thats his job. No one elses.
- He over threw Engram even though it was clear Engram ran the wrong route.
Theres about a million other things. That I just cant remember. But the best was it was his fault Barkley got stuffed on 3rd and 1. That was a hoot.
And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
See I am sorry, this is what gets me frustrated with BBI.
You are absolutely correct that Barkley and OBJ had 1 on 1 coverage. And they should be looked at. But Engram had NO ONE covering him and ran a terrible route. So whats more of a sure thing. Throwing to a guy who is being covered or not covered?
If Eli had thrown to OBJ and Barkley and there was good defense - the idiot who posts the all-22 and all the bad things Eli does would point out that no one guarded Engram and he would get crucified for that.
Engram was wide open with room to run. He has to read the defense and get that completion.
Eli isn't a guy to run RPO, either.
So yes, Eli is viewed more critically (though a large part of that is the fact this is a Giants MB) and arguably held to a higher standard, but that's at least in part due to his limitations leave little margin for error.
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And the Beckham miss wasn't the only one by Eli. I think he completely misread the D on the play where he was irate with Engram (Engram may have also ran a shitty route). As Witten pointed out before the snap, Beckham had man coverage on the weak side and they also ended up having Barkley on a wheel route to that side. The first look (IMO) should've been to Beckham, likely for 15 yards and a 1st down, not to Engram in the flat. Even better would've been hitting Barkley on the wheel route as he was wide open.
See I am sorry, this is what gets me frustrated with BBI.
You are absolutely correct that Barkley and OBJ had 1 on 1 coverage. And they should be looked at. But Engram had NO ONE covering him and ran a terrible route. So whats more of a sure thing. Throwing to a guy who is being covered or not covered?
If Eli had thrown to OBJ and Barkley and there was good defense - the idiot who posts the all-22 and all the bad things Eli does would point out that no one guarded Engram and he would get crucified for that.
Engram was wide open with room to run. He has to read the defense and get that completion.
Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
Eli has to be near perfect just to get a win. And while he deserves blame because of his errors, the issues run a lot deeper than him. And people have to also understand that the next guy up isn't going to be perfect either. And when he isn't, the team will still suck.
What brilliant irony.
But no my fat friend in Charlotte. The team and circumstances need to perfect around Eli for this team to have a chance to win. You have it backwards.
Not sure why this continues to be so hard for your ilk to understand.
Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
1. No you dont. You throw to the uncovered guy 10 times out of 10.
2. Engram msot definitely ran the wrong route becuase he was open immediately and ran into a place where he didnt have to. Eli was pretty demonstrative and so were the analysts.
The team is really bad right now. And when you have a unit as poor as the OL, that one mistake in a drive is a killer. It could be a sack, a penalty, a 4 yard loss on a running play. Whatever it is - it derails a drive. That's not just on Eli. That'z the impact of having a shitty OL and why teams with shitty OL's don't often win.
It is also why clamoring for a mobile QB sounds great, but he'll still have to deal with the OL having penalties, giving up sacks, and leaving the team in a 2nd and long because of a jailbreak on a rushing attempt.
The need for perfection isn't for Eli. It is for the OL.
ponderous...
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Sorry, but when Beckham has 1v1 coverage, you throw him the ball. That's why he's the highest paid WR in the league.
And this is likely a pre-snap read by Eli because he never even looked to Beckham's side of the field. So he likely read (incorrectly) zone coverage and thus went to the zone beater. Sure, if Engram runs a better route (why are we assuming EE ran a shitty route and not that Eli made a bad throw?) it's likely a 3-5 yard completion. That's still an incorrect read that left yards/points on the field though.
1. No you dont. You throw to the uncovered guy 10 times out of 10.
2. Engram msot definitely ran the wrong route becuase he was open immediately and ran into a place where he didnt have to. Eli was pretty demonstrative and so were the analysts.
Analysts said Engram ran the wrong route. They (Witten) also said Beckham should've been the target. Those 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.
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he also had lots of opportunities and left plays and throws on the field.
Outside of OBJ on 4th down... name the others.
On the third down play in the red zone he stayed in the pocket forever rather than getting out and trying to make something happen. Result was a sack.
Jimmy Googs : 10:40 am : link : reply
will still suck?
ponderous...
Yes - when the next QB has to play behind this porous line and the defense can't get crucial stops, the team will still suck.
You'd probably have to make football posts to understand that - or you could just keep resorting to the one word response.
And that is what's fucking ponderous.
I’m so close to giving up really following pro sports and it’s because of the never ending incessant dialogue about player contracts and salary and cap dynamics. I get it the dynamic and how important cap mgmt is, but it’s a weak and stupid talking point. It has absolutely ruined the escapism of pro sports. And here’s the thing, I WANT these guys to get paid. The More they earn the better to me. Most fans can’t fucking handle it.
perfect...
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When the next guy up isn't perfect, the team
Jimmy Googs : 10:40 am : link : reply
will still suck?
ponderous...
Yes - when the next QB has to play behind this porous line and the defense can't get crucial stops, the team will still suck.
You'd probably have to make football posts to understand that - or you could just keep resorting to the one word response.
And that is what's fucking ponderous.
I don't know why anyone wastes time with this raging fuckwit, kudos to your patience FMiC
I’m so close to giving up really following pro sports and it’s because of the never ending incessant dialogue about player contracts and salary and cap dynamics. I get it the dynamic and how important cap mgmt is, but it’s a weak and stupid talking point. It has absolutely ruined the escapism of pro sports. And here’s the thing, I WANT these guys to get paid. The More they earn the better to me. Most fans can’t fucking handle it.
It’s easy. The salary cap is a constraint. Assuming equal performance, a player earning less money is better for the team/org than a player making more money. That’s why fans care.
Most people don’t give a shit about the level of Eli Manning’s income in a personal/life sense. It’s all about opportunity cost to the team, perceived or otherwise.
Even in sports with no hard cap, it’s the same explanation. There’s an underlying assumption that money is a constraint and ownership has some limit on the amount of money it’s willing to spend.
You don’t have to like it, but if it strictly doesn’t make sense to you, it sounds like a you problem and not an everyone else problem.
The team is really bad right now. And when you have a unit as poor as the OL, that one mistake in a drive is a killer. It could be a sack, a penalty, a 4 yard loss on a running play. Whatever it is - it derails a drive. That's not just on Eli. That'z the impact of having a shitty OL and why teams with shitty OL's don't often win.
It is also why clamoring for a mobile QB sounds great, but he'll still have to deal with the OL having penalties, giving up sacks, and leaving the team in a 2nd and long because of a jailbreak on a rushing attempt.
The need for perfection isn't for Eli. It is for the OL.
It's more than Eli's lack of mobility - in the sense of making plays out of the pocket.
He's lost pocket awareness. All too often he slides laterally against the rush instead of stepping into the pocket.
Further, it's clearly his decision making is waning. We've seen clear examples where Shurmur has yelled at Eli to make the better decision - "throw the ball!" (against Philly) and "throw it to Odell!" (last night against Atl). His ability to process and execute are a major problem.
And when he does make the right decision, in the sense he's picked out the right option, too many times his timing and accuracy are below average due to his footwork and mechanics falling apart.
I can't equally distribute blame - Eli and OL - because Eli is the guy who is paid to make plays. And it's just naive and unreasonable to expect everything to be comfortable in professional football.
The guys you pay $20M a year have to identify and throw to the open receiver in the red zone. They also need to catch the ball on a crucial two point conversion.
You want to get paid like an elite player, then be elite. Otherwise paying you is a mistake. The Giants' roster is filled with mistakes.
Dude's 37, at the tail end of his career. If he played for a well-run organization then Eli would probably be far better than Peyton was in final years...
Dude's 37, at the tail end of his career. If he played for a well-run organization then Eli would probably be far better than Peyton was in final years...
You might be on to something. The ONLY reason anybody would be critical of Eli's play is because he slept with their mother. That's it. Only one I can think of.
The guys you pay $20M a year have to identify and throw to the open receiver in the red zone. They also need to catch the ball on a crucial two point conversion.
You want to get paid like an elite player, then be elite. Otherwise paying you is a mistake. The Giants' roster is filled with mistakes.
There is a couple of problems with your argument. You know as a poster you don't like anyone getting paid. OBJ for example had easily outperformed his contract and yet you didn't want us to pay him. When any player outperforms his contract no one is clamoring for them to get more money.
Eli is making what he is making because it was a long term contract that was re-negotiated multiple times, with money back loaded to help the team out at the time.