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At this point, Eli is stealing from the Giants.

chopperhatch : 10/23/2018 12:33 am
There is absolutely now way that he couldlook back on his performances the past two weeks and honestly think that he is still a competent QB for this team. Absolutely gun shy, rushing through his reads where he misses TDs to guys like Barkley amd ODB in favor of 3 yard dump offs. The line has been terrible, but when they have held up, Eli misses throws. Shurmur has been terrible but he has called many plays that opened up down the field and Eli either didnt see it, missed the thtow or checked out to a dump off.

Eli Manning is completely done as a pro QB. Not just "for this situation" done in all regards. He plays afraid, hesitates from fear of throwing a pick, and lacks that killer instinct.

If he continues to claim he is the same QB that led them to two SBs, shame on him for merely chasing a paycheck at this point. While the larger egg lies on John Mara's face if he continues to put his faith in Eli's abilities, Eli has become all about the dollar at this point and fuck him for doing so.
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RE: RE: RE: RE: This well go over well  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/23/2018 7:06 am : link
In comment 14142484 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142481 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:


Quote:


In comment 14142380 chopperhatch said:

But you have to sell it !!! Not just call hike and throw it to him that far behind the LOS!


Quote:


In comment 14142360 dep026 said:


Quote:


...



Oh, great....more opinions from dep! Just what this place needs.

You are mocked on every single thread you post on, told me via email that you were done with this site, yet here you are. Honestly wouldnt care if I didnt see you battling every day with 15 posters calling you an idiot.


B. Im more or less referring to how he treats this offseason. If he doesnt retire, it is very clear what he is all about. If he were running around looking downfield all game and taking sacks that way, I wouldnt care. But he is letting his team down in a way that I have never seen a two time champion do. If he doesnt retire at the end of the year, its all about the money.



The 3rd and 2 play where he immediately threw it to Barkley 6 yds behind the LOS with 3 defenders waiting for him did it for me... he cannot move in the pocket, cannot throw a screen pass , can not throw on the run , and misses too many wide open receivers in big spots.

Love what Eli has done for NYG but it’s easy to see they need a QB with some mobility. Its not fair to Eli what the Giants have done to his career the last 5-6 years. Time to move on after the bye...



You know that was a designed play and it was the only person he could throw too? The WRs were blocking and our OL were downfield.

That wasn’t a dump off, that was the called play.
Have to see what???  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:07 am : link
Jesus Christ. I swear people would blame Eli for the hurricanes that have hit United States.
Sell  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:07 am : link
*
Opps Dep, I meant to say  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/23/2018 7:09 am : link
You have to sell it ! You can’t just call Hike and throw him the ball right away and force him to go 8 yds on 3rd and 2.

If that was the designed call than it was a pretty shitty call with a trio of defenders waiting for him.
Kevin  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 7:14 am : link
Yep
RE: Opps Dep, I meant to say  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:14 am : link
In comment 14142507 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
You have to sell it ! You can’t just call Hike and throw him the ball right away and force him to go 8 yds on 3rd and 2.

If that was the designed call than it was a pretty shitty call with a trio of defenders waiting for him.


There’s nothing to sell on the play. It was just a horrendous call.
Beckham, Shepard, Barkley, engram  
jgambrosio : 10/23/2018 7:17 am : link
20 points versus one of the worst defenses in the league. Forget the line, a QB that can be creative in the pocket destroys that team. Instead Eli sits in the pocket and waits to be sacked.
If there’s nothing to sell  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 7:18 am : link
then buy
The #1 Eli Manning problem...  
M.S. : 10/23/2018 7:19 am : link

...putting aside his age/salary, is that there are a minimum of 15 other QBs in the NFL who can create something when the blocking breaks down, ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

Last night, Giants were knocking on the door and on 3rd down the Falcons rushed 3 guys. Eli had a lot of time, couldn't find anyone, but rather than extend the play by rolling out (and putting maximum pressure on defense) Eli did a half turn into the waiting arms of the defensive tackle.

Eli poses zero threat to a defense in the red zone and that's a very large reason why the Giants are the worst team in the NFL.

For those very few Eli hold outs, prepare yourselves for the inevitable: Our 2-time Super Bowl MVP is finished and will not be on the 2019 roster.
RE: Beckham, Shepard, Barkley, engram  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:20 am : link
In comment 14142516 jgambrosio said:
Quote:
20 points versus one of the worst defenses in the league. Forget the line, a QB that can be creative in the pocket destroys that team. Instead Eli sits in the pocket and waits to be sacked.


Waited about 1.2 seconds.

And let’s not put engram in that group. Laid a humongous egg.
RE: RE: Beckham, Shepard, Barkley, engram  
jgambrosio : 10/23/2018 7:24 am : link
In comment 14142521 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142516 jgambrosio said:


Quote:


20 points versus one of the worst defenses in the league. Forget the line, a QB that can be creative in the pocket destroys that team. Instead Eli sits in the pocket and waits to be sacked.



Waited about 1.2 seconds.

And let’s not put engram in that group. Laid a humongous egg.


If Eli could learn how to slide and step up and roll instead of planting his feet like they had cement in them, he would have more than 1.2 seconds. QBs sometimes have to make plays to get defenders off the refeivers, Eli does not have that ability.

And engram has the ability to be a game changing receiving tight end. His blocking does him no favors but this offense should leave the defense guessing every play, instead it's the most predictable one I've seen in years.
Lol  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:25 am : link
People just see what they want to see.
RE: Lol  
jgambrosio : 10/23/2018 7:26 am : link
In comment 14142535 dep026 said:
Quote:
People just see what they want to see.


Reading some of these threads, you just described yourself perfectly.
RE: Lol  
Keith : 10/23/2018 7:27 am : link
In comment 14142535 dep026 said:
Quote:
People just see what they want to see.


The irony here is strong
That one sack where the Dlineman  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 7:27 am : link
brushed the back of Eli’s sock and he went down.

Vicious. Could have been roughing the passer...
Regarding the OP...  
Keith : 10/23/2018 7:29 am : link
That’s not a fair statement. One thing we should never question w Eli is his desire and intergrity. Ok, two things.

Eli wants to play and wants to win, physically he just can’t. He’s not stealing money, he’s just having a hard time grasping the fact that he’s done.
lol  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:32 am : link
IAEF.
RE: And Eli probably should have thrown it  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/23/2018 7:35 am : link
In comment 14142478 dep026 said:
Quote:
To Odell here but he also put it on the hands of another player.

We are criticizing Eli for throwing the ball that hit the player in the hands. Think about that.


Odell was wide open for an easy touchdown and he threw it across his body into coverage. Holy shit dep get off the high horse.

He wasn’t terrible last night, he wasn’t our worst player last night but there are opportunities he left on the field.
Even the 3rd string TE  
Keith : 10/23/2018 7:36 am : link
was shocked that Eli threw it to him, lol.
RE: RE: And Eli probably should have thrown it  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:41 am : link
In comment 14142555 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14142478 dep026 said:


Quote:


To Odell here but he also put it on the hands of another player.

We are criticizing Eli for throwing the ball that hit the player in the hands. Think about that.



Odell was wide open for an easy touchdown and he threw it across his body into coverage. Holy shit dep get off the high horse.

He wasn’t terrible last night, he wasn’t our worst player last night but there are opportunities he left on the field.


Agreed. Again, the miss to Odell was probably his most glaring mistake. But the fact we need to nitpick a 400 yard performance when....

We couldn’t run it to save our life
We forced one punt in the last 3 quarters
Eli threw for 400 yards
He threw it deep very accurately
He was hitting intermediate routes that went for big chunks
He was given ZERO protection in the first half

I mean there have been a lot of times to crucify Eli this year. Last night was not one of them.
Breaking news:  
Keith : 10/23/2018 7:43 am : link
You don’t win games with yards, you win with points. Eli’s missed opps prevented points. That’s all that matters.
The reality is somewhere in between  
jcn56 : 10/23/2018 7:45 am : link
We could have won with the play that Eli gave us last night, if the rest of the team didn't have their share of screwups and the coach didn't have his head up his ass.

We also could have won if Eli played better than an average QB. He had a good game statistically, but he left plenty of plays out there. Reminder - the Falcons D stinks.

Eli didn't lose us the game though. He made some good plays, some bad ones, and left quite a few incomplete that could have changed the course of the game for the better.
RE: Breaking news:  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:45 am : link
In comment 14142568 Keith said:
Quote:
You don’t win games with yards, you win with points. Eli’s missed opps prevented points. That’s all that matters.


So did Odell, Shepard, Barkley, our OL, Engram, Simonson....

Nevermind IAEF.
I don’t know what’s more  
Keith : 10/23/2018 7:47 am : link
impressive(or sad)...you spending the last 10 years defending eli’s honor or you spending the last 10 hours. Go to bed princess, you are delusional.
The really sad part is Simonson  
jcn56 : 10/23/2018 7:49 am : link
My first impression of him was how much he didn't look like a football player, and I figured 'well, how much are we really going to be seeing this guy?', and that the only ball he'd ever catch was going to be a fluke/deflected play.

That's twice now for some inexplicable reason Eli is trying to force a ball to that guy, who was just as surprised as I was that he was targeted.
RE: I don’t know what’s more  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 7:49 am : link
In comment 14142577 Keith said:
Quote:
impressive(or sad)...you spending the last 10 years defending eli’s honor or you spending the last 10 hours. Go to bed princess, you are delusional.


So you’re saying those others players didn’t cost us points, only Eli? It’s a simple question.
Our team is really really bad  
greek13 : 10/23/2018 7:53 am : link
We are 4-19 and that spells doom for ownership management coaching and a qb

No playoff wins in 7 years

Ownership not changing
Management and coaching changed
QB is next and we are watching the farewell

4-19

We are arguably the worst team in the league
IMO We need 8 new starters including a QB
What is your number ?




Yards  
mattyblue : 10/23/2018 8:02 am : link
are not even a small indicator of a game well played. Eli didn’t play well, he missed opportunities, can’t step up in the pocket, and creates nothing on his own. He’s had a great career, made a fortune, and got away injury free. The Giants don’t owe him anything, it’s time to move on.
So one missed opportunity  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 8:05 am : link
Means he didn’t play well. Moving up and down the field with basically no run game means nothing.

Lol... this place.
I thought Ei was fine for the most part last night  
Essex : 10/23/2018 8:10 am : link
I thought he was not fine in the red zone but the play calling was atrocious I’m amd out of the red zone. Tons of blame to go around with offensive line, coaching, and some errant passes, but overall he didn’t look like a qbs who is done. He looked like a qb who is no longer at the top of his game who is getting no help from his Oline and coaching staff. I know people like to look at things in definite black and white answers but life doesn’t work that way. I know this, i don’t have to be an Eli fanboy to know that if he had an Oline and a coaching staff that could design some decent plays and paid attention to detail there would be a lot less focus on Eli.
RE: So one missed opportunity  
hitdog42 : 10/23/2018 8:20 am : link
In comment 14142615 dep026 said:
Quote:
Means he didn’t play well. Moving up and down the field with basically no run game means nothing.

Lol... this place.


he wasnt awful but when you cant execute in the redzone then its mostly for nothing- the miss on OBJ on the roll out was there chance ---- other times they stall because he is zero threat and the defense knows that---
Eli puts up very good numbers despite poor protection  
Ira : 10/23/2018 8:26 am : link
and we're the ones who are brainwashed? You can always find fault if you're looking to find it in any qb's performance in any game.
RE: RE: So one missed opportunity  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 8:27 am : link
In comment 14142641 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142615 dep026 said:


Quote:


Means he didn’t play well. Moving up and down the field with basically no run game means nothing.

Lol... this place.



he wasnt awful but when you cant execute in the redzone then its mostly for nothing- the miss on OBJ on the roll out was there chance ---- other times they stall because he is zero threat and the defense knows that---


Ok I agree he missed OBJ there. But blaming the game on a play like that is like blaming OBJ for the game because he misread a defense or blaming Barkley because he couldnt get in the end zone on 3rd and goal.

We moved the ball pretty well last night. We were in the their red zone 6 times. Thats where the game was lost.

Eli missed OBJ
OBJ misread a defense
Some pretty poor play design
Engram not reading a defense on a simple out pattern.
Our FB and TE getting blown up on 3rd and goal

This is why we arent good. I know people like to blame Eli for everything, but even our best players make mistakes that cost us. We are a losing franchise right now with some very good players. Which is the maddening part.
It is fair that a bunch of players made mistakes  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 8:32 am : link
not just Eli.

But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...
Eli is what he is at this point  
UberAlias : 10/23/2018 8:32 am : link
There should be no mystery. He's not an elite QB so there will be some misses and some inconsistency in every game. He has limited mobility, but if you can protect for him he will make some plays for you and he will give you a chance to win. But he'll miss on some opportunities too and in close games those misses might cost you.

What more to discuss?
RE: It is fair that a bunch of players made mistakes  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 8:37 am : link
In comment 14142678 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...


I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.

The new QB is going to step into a great situation.
I liked that Eli hustled to try to run it in down in the redzone  
UberAlias : 10/23/2018 8:37 am : link
That shows heart/competitiveness from a 37 year old immobile QB, and the sneaks in there as well. His deep ball looked better last night than it has in years. He threw for a lot of yards but he missed some opportunities and wasn't good enough to get it done in the red zone.

So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?
RE: RE: It is fair that a bunch of players made mistakes  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 8:40 am : link
In comment 14142698 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142678 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



But we will criticize the next QB too so don’t get so upset...



I am not sure if this is true. The next QB cant lose. If he stinks, well Eli stunk to end his career. If he does well, we will hear how he can make plays that Eli couldnt.

.


Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...
RE: RE: RE: It is fair that a bunch of players made mistakes  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 8:41 am : link
In comment 14142711 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Don’t worry buttercup. I will make sure we criticize the new guy. If only to make you feel better for your loss...


Make sure you consult the drunkards in section 212 first. Cause again, they know more than anyone else.
RE: I liked that Eli hustled to try to run it in down in the redzone  
Jimmy Googs : 10/23/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 14142699 UberAlias said:
Quote:
That shows heart/competitiveness from a 37 year old immobile QB, and the sneaks in there as well. His deep ball looked better last night than it has in years. He threw for a lot of yards but he missed some opportunities and wasn't good enough to get it done in the red zone.

So some good, some bad. Did anyone honestly expect any different?


Nope that’s all there is. Good enough to still play QB. Not good enough to win consistently anymore in the NFL.
Saw this coming....  
bw in dc : 10/23/2018 8:46 am : link
A statistically pleasing game by Eli - on paper - giving the illusion that Eli still has something left.

Eli has always played reasonably well indoors. And this was a game against swiss cheese Atlanta. So this was going to be a temporary deodorant to cover up this Eli nosedive.

But beyond the gaudy stats, as mentioned above, Eli couldn’t deliver when points were at stake. He’s bringing nothing to the table right now but experience. And that’s been worth one win so far.
RE: RE: RE: Why create this thread  
montanagiant : 10/23/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 14142438 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14142433 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14142431 Knineteen said:


Quote:


AFTER Eli throws for 399 yards?

I mean, 399 yards is pretty professional in my eyes.


Shh...That's a "Micro Argument" whatever the fuck that means



I think you are being intentionally obtuse by saying you have never heard of a "microargument." A microargument is when you pount out a stand out stat or fact as way to combat an accusation of poor performance. In this example, pointing out Eli's 399 stupid yards is a microargument to the point of those critical of his incessant failures in the red zone, being skittish in his reads because of a poor O line and missing throws when they are there. Those 399 yards are also against one of the very worst defenses in football. Microargument.


Btw, you dont have to be INTENETIONALLY obtuse. We can see that you're obtuse when you arent deloberately so to make a point.

I know what it means I just don't see where it applies here given that I have pointed out his stats, the fact we had zero running game, and the hellish pressure he faced for the majority of the game. How is that a "Micro Argument"?

Now, seizing on a missed pass to OBJ now that would be a micro argument

By "Stealing: if you mean...  
PBMedia : 10/23/2018 9:32 am : link
He's working his ass off, getting nearly killed on every play, putting his health at risk, and failing... then yes, he's stealing.
Eli played fine  
WillVAB : 10/23/2018 9:44 am : link
Unfortunately that’s not good enough. He missed a couple throws, the 4th down toss where Beckham was open immediately in particular. The other throw to Beckham in the back of the EZ was on Beckham. The good QBs around the league miss just as many if not more on a given night.

The problem is the OL is always one breakdown away from killing a drive. They pick up a first down or two then bam sack, now it’s 2nd or 3rd and long. Sometimes they go extended stretches in games with bad play. Then we see multiple 3 and outs and then the defense is on the field forever.

Terrible OL and a weak pass rush on defense. Those are the root causes of the problems for the Giants right now.
Real simple  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/23/2018 9:57 am : link
Eli lacks a physical, usually big receiver that can catch the 50/50 balls to continue drives and make big plays, which every competent org gets their pocket passer. See the team we played last night.
montana  
AcesUp : 10/23/2018 9:57 am : link
It's not nitpicking. I'm talking about specific situations where Eli is leaving points on the board that are consistent with an underlying trend - you bring up hollow stats and the fact that OL is terrible. I'm aware of those facts and they aren't relevant to what you responded to. It's right out the playbook too, anytime people are critical of Eli we get some manipulated BS stats or "what about the OL".

I know Eli isn't the #1 culprit but I don't see anybody out there defending Nate Solder or Chad Wheeler. When I reference "micro arguments", I'm talking about a good chunk of this board's compulsion to point to one of our many issues as a means of saying "Eli is fine" when the reality is that he's the QB of a historically and consistently bad offense for 3 seasons now. He's open to criticism, especially on plays where our other issues aren't a factor. That's when you should be looking at him with a critical eye.
it seems like Eli  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/23/2018 10:06 am : link
is the only QB in the league that is expected to be perfect.

He should have thrown the ball to Beckham on the flare out instead of to Simonson. It was a tight window and needed a lot of touch, but he should have gone for it immediately.

Other than that, his lack of mobility is nothing new. A QB with mobility could extend plays and take off when defenses drop into coverage. And for that reason, given our O-line, it doesn't make sense to pay Eli next year what he is getting paid now. It's a losing strategy.

But it is strange to me to come away from last night's game with the take that Eli is the problem and the one stealing from the Giants.

The offensive line is as bad as any line I have ever seen in my life. They were getting blown off the line by 3-man rushes and Barkley has to break off contact by multiple defenders just to get to the line of scrimmage.

What's insane about this offensive line is that there isn't a single player on the line that is reliable. Solder was embarrassed by speed rushes all night, Hernandez is a rookie who lost quite a few battles when the DLineman makes a swim move to the inside, and the Center, RG, and RT, are all the type of guys who get cut in a Hard Knocks episode.
This thread is right up there with Kmed's (now Keith's)  
Chris684 : 10/23/2018 10:07 am : link
Justin Tuck is a fraud thread.

File this under the: I'm mad because I'm a fan so I'm going to call your character into question.

Fuckin bullshit.
Eli  
Sammo85 : 10/23/2018 10:08 am : link
was not good enough last night. Yes he did not turn the ball over and got sacked a few times but he also had lots of opportunities and left plays and throws on the field. He also made some bizarre playcalls and missed some reactions needed to the defensive alignment which is very unlike Eli. I’m staring to wonder if there is some merit to mental or shellshock issues.

Everyone noticed it from the analysts to catching the coaches and players.

Third string street TE  
widmerseyebrow : 10/23/2018 10:09 am : link
Jake Ballard was the quintessential street free agent blocking tight end. You get hit in the hands, catch the fucking ball.
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