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NFT: 10/23 Knicks Talk: Another close loss

LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/23/2018 7:10 am
Another gutsy performance that had the Knicks in it until the final few minutes. Defensive effort, offensive cohesion and this team playing inspiring basketball. Gotta love what Fizdale is getting out of this young team.

Couple Notes:

Fizdale after the game said he might have to make some changes in the starting lineup who are leaving us in a whole. In my opinion, I'd start with these two. Lance Thomas and Frank Ntilikina

Lance Thomas: His totals through 4 games. 71 minutes. 3 for 13 for 13 points. 10 rebounds. 2 assists.

That's our starting PF ladies and gentleman. I don't care about his intangibles or his leadership qualities. Move him to the bench, give him 15 minutes a night where he can be brought in for defensive purposes. No reason he should be starting in what is a developmental year. Bring in Vonleh as the starting 4.

Frank Ntilikina: 35 minutes last night. 5 points. Let me repeat that. 35 minutes. 5 points. Another black hole offensively. Didn't put a single shot in the second half. I wouldn't remove him from the starting lineup. Its either you stick him at the 3, and tell him to cut, slash, move around and not just stand in the corner with your hands up in the air.. or you move him to the 1 and put Burke on the bench. He doesn't really have any plays called for him, and when he has the ball he seems allergic to shooting it. Personally, I'd give him the keys to the offense for a few games and let him take his lumps. See what you have in him as a starting PG.

Mario Hezonja: Easily his best game as a Knick. 18 points, 4 rebounds.

Damyean Dotson: Another positive off the bench. Extended minutes for him and he proved he belongs. 4 3's he knocked down. 7 defensive rebounds to go along with 14 points.
Hezonja  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 7:49 am : link
and Dotson really flashed

Vonleh also looks like a find
Jabari  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 7:54 am : link
Parker is the epitome of a player that would play for the Knicks previously. Very happy they didn't pursue him.
1 of lance and frank need to come off the bench  
nygiants16 : 10/23/2018 8:07 am : link
i would prefer it very much to be lance, he gives them nothing...

Hezonja is so much better when the ball is in his hands, when he plays off the ball he never gets into the flow
Fizdale - doing a great job thus far.  
GiantsUA : 10/23/2018 8:38 am : link
When 40% of your starting line up is not a serious scoring threat, makes life much easier on the defense.

Lance Thomas needs to come off the bench, IMO.

Frank needs firm instruction, either you start driving to the hoop or you can sit next to Lance and Ron Baker on the bench.

Burke has been fun to watch, but he is a liability on defense.

I would like to see the Knicks do a better job of getting over screens and defending the pick and roll.
RE: Jabari  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 14142598 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Parker is the epitome of a player that would play for the Knicks previously. Very happy they didn't pursue him.


24 PPG per36 aint too shabby? 50% from downtown too.

yeah his defense sucks.... but the NBA this year - no one is playing defense.
RE: RE: Jabari  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 14142735 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142598 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Parker is the epitome of a player that would play for the Knicks previously. Very happy they didn't pursue him.



24 PPG per36 aint too shabby? 50% from downtown too.

yeah his defense sucks.... but the NBA this year - no one is playing defense.


Parker is averaging... 1.4 assists per game last 3 games.. he has 3 assists, he posted a -11 last night in only 24 minutes of play. He can score a bit, that's all he has.
..  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:09 am : link
Tim Hardaway Jr. with an impressive... -25 in 34 minutes of play lol #Knicks
Ayton  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:12 am : link
is the goods.
RE: RE: RE: Jabari  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 14142784 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14142735 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14142598 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Parker is the epitome of a player that would play for the Knicks previously. Very happy they didn't pursue him.



24 PPG per36 aint too shabby? 50% from downtown too.

yeah his defense sucks.... but the NBA this year - no one is playing defense.



Parker is averaging... 1.4 assists per game last 3 games.. he has 3 assists, he posted a -11 last night in only 24 minutes of play. He can score a bit, that's all he has.


He may have been -11.... but that’s a product of who you are in the game with. He carried them offensively when in the game.
Is it me or does it seem like  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2018 9:19 am : link
every game is 124-120? Scoring is off the charts so far.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:20 am : link
happy he's not a Knick. 0.16 WS/48.
RE: I'm  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 9:27 am : link
In comment 14142825 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
happy he's not a Knick. 0.16 WS/48.


He's better than Super Mario.
RE: Is it me or does it seem like  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 9:28 am : link
In comment 14142822 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
every game is 124-120? Scoring is off the charts so far.


The amount of ticky tack fouls called is preventing true 1 on 1 defense. Its funny to say this but defense is really overrated nowadays.
Playing hard  
TyreeHelmet : 10/23/2018 9:42 am : link
That’s what you want to see from this team. Let’s see how hard they are playing at 15-40.

- I know he puts up points, but Hardaway really hurts you out there. He takes some truly awful shots and kills you on D. I hope Perry pulls a miracle and moves him.

- Frank is so indesicive/ passive on offense. And he really struggles to finish around the rim. Even the floater doesn’t work for him. He needs to attack the rim but not sure if he’s capable of it.
In regards to high scoring.. this is the reason  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/23/2018 9:43 am : link
Kinda went under the radar, but there was quietly two rule changes this past offseason.

Rule 1. After an offensive rebound, the shot clock resets to 14 seconds instead of the traditional 24 seconds. This upping the pace of offense.

Rule 2. Freedom of Movement rule. Officials are cracking down on off the ball defense.

Quote:
The NBA is putting extra emphasis on freedom of movement. Starting this season, officials will closely monitor contact away from the ball. The extra emphasis is intended to promote scoring by speeding up the action on the court.
RE: RE: I'm  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 14142856 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14142825 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


happy he's not a Knick. 0.16 WS/48.



He's better than Super Mario.


Super Mario is making 1 year 6.5 million. Parker is making 20 million.
RE: RE: RE: I'm  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 9:53 am : link
In comment 14142948 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14142856 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14142825 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


happy he's not a Knick. 0.16 WS/48.



He's better than Super Mario.



Super Mario is making 1 year 6.5 million. Parker is making 20 million.


Parker's deal is essentially a 1 year deal. The Bulls had enormous amount of cap space. They arent competing this year. If Parker can prove he can score consistently and they can flip him at the trade deadline for a late first, then its worth the risk.

He has a skill in this league, and right now - he is doing it pretty well.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 9:59 am : link
The Chicago Bulls currently rank 24th in opponent’s points per game at 122.5 and 28th in differential at -10.5. Fans knew prior to the start of the season that defense would be the team’s biggest Achilles heel. So the fact that they are struggling is not (or should not be) a surprise. What is a surprise is how surprised some are by how bad Jabari Parker has been on the defensive end.

Really Chicago? You’re surprised that the guy who said “they don’t pay players to play defense” is bad at defense? If you’re a Bulls fan clutching your pearls aghast at how terrible he has looked on defense, I don’t know what to tell you.
Link - ( New Window )
Encouraging start for the Knicks. I'd sign up for this for the  
arniefez : 10/23/2018 10:06 am : link
next 78 games as long as they keep losing 75% of the time. That's how you build a good team in the NBA. It stinks that those are the rules of engagement in the NBA but they are so you either play by them or you never get good.

Several of the young guys have shown good stuff that maybe they can build on down the road. It's much more encouraging than the Rangers who look absolutely horrible in every way and none of their young guys have shown anything at all.
Love what we're seeing from Dotson.  
bceagle05 : 10/23/2018 10:14 am : link
No reason he can't be an effective NBA player - good size, plays defense, rebounds and can shoot it from deep. Burke and especially Mudiay/Baker are no threat to Frank's playing time long-term, but Trier and Dotson certainly are.
I  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 10:29 am : link
think "learning to win" is fan driven BS. Yeah, maybe when a young team makes the playoffs vs. a Spurs veteran laden squad but the Knicks winning 3-4 extra games this year aren't changing the development path of Frank, Knox etc.
RE: Love what we're seeing from Dotson.  
nygiants16 : 10/23/2018 10:33 am : link
In comment 14143029 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No reason he can't be an effective NBA player - good size, plays defense, rebounds and can shoot it from deep. Burke and especially Mudiay/Baker are no threat to Frank's playing time long-term, but Trier and Dotson certainly are.


problem is you cant play trier with burke or hardaway, frank actually matches well with the scorers
Gulp  
Carl in CT : 10/23/2018 10:33 am : link
You can start Frank or Lance not both. You can’t play with only 3 offensive players on the court. I have to say (yes it’s early) I thought I would see another step from Frank.
RE: Gulp  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 14143082 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
You can start Frank or Lance not both. You can’t play with only 3 offensive players on the court. I have to say (yes it’s early) I thought I would see another step from Frank.


He showed some flashes in previous games. Last night was an ugly one for him. No way to defend it.
RE: RE: Love what we're seeing from Dotson.  
bceagle05 : 10/23/2018 10:39 am : link
Quote:
problem is you cant play trier with burke or hardaway, frank actually matches well with the scorers

True, but I was thinking beyond this season - I'm hoping Frank, Trier and Dotson do enough to outlast Burke and Timmy on this roster. I'd love to find upgrades for the latter two in this year's draft and free agency.
Heat  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 11:04 am : link
Mavs, Clippers and Rockets in on Butler.
I didn't see the game last night (obviously)  
Anakim : 10/23/2018 11:05 am : link
But why do we continue to start Lance instead of Vonleh?
RE: Heat  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 14143187 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mavs, Clippers and Rockets in on Butler.


I just dont see him a fit on any of those teams. What can the Rockets possibly give up? Gordon and .....

The Heat have a bunch of role players that may be enticing but it wont make them anything close to a contender.

The Clippers? Long ways from contending.
RE: RE: Heat  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 14143194 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143187 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mavs, Clippers and Rockets in on Butler.



I just dont see him a fit on any of those teams. What can the Rockets possibly give up? Gordon and .....

The Heat have a bunch of role players that may be enticing but it wont make them anything close to a contender.

The Clippers? Long ways from contending.


Qi and Hartenstein had off-season/SL buzz and I guess but sounds like Thibs wants "win low" players and reportedly insisted on Tucker/Gordon combo and the Rockets balked.
RE: RE: Heat  
nygiants16 : 10/23/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 14143194 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143187 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mavs, Clippers and Rockets in on Butler.



I just dont see him a fit on any of those teams. What can the Rockets possibly give up? Gordon and .....

The Heat have a bunch of role players that may be enticing but it wont make them anything close to a contender.

The Clippers? Long ways from contending.


riley is always looking to "compete" meanwhile hr has built a middling team...

clippers supposedly front runners for kawhi
RE: RE: RE: Heat  
dep026 : 10/23/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 14143232 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Qi and Hartenstein had off-season/SL buzz and I guess but sounds like Thibs wants "win low" players and reportedly insisted on Tucker/Gordon combo and the Rockets balked.


I really think the rockets take a major step backwards. Paul is older and who knows if he can to a complete year. Melo sucks. They cant defend.

I am really rooting for the Pelicans to take that next step. AD might be the MVP of the league but not if NIKOLA doesnt take it from him.

Davis and Mirotic are really good with one another.
I’m happy they are losing  
NoGainDayne : 10/23/2018 11:26 am : link
but aren’t shit and are playing good teams tough with inferior talent. I hope we can put in a good showing against GS at the garden so we have Durant thinking maybe this team and another year on Knox and the other youngsters + Porzingis + high lottery pick and we are cooking!
Lance and Vonleh  
Jon in NYC : 10/23/2018 11:41 am : link
are totally different kinds of players. I wouldn't be surprised to see Knox take Lance's spot when he returns and we go with a smaller lineup. I really think KK's best long term position is at the 4, not totally unlike Melo.
This  
Jon in NYC : 10/23/2018 11:46 am : link
also shouldn't be a surprise, but Lance is +2 and Tim is -2.8. One contributes victories and the other takes away from them.

Look beyond the scoring.
Caught a good bit of the 2nd half last night  
mfsd : 10/23/2018 11:56 am : link
after my frustration watching the Giants got the best of me. As the crowd is saying, the Knicks are still short on talent overall, but they’re playing with an energy and aggressiveness not seen in these parts in some time.

It’s unintentionally good to have KP out for a while, and no other stars to defer to - our young squad is learning to do it themselves, rather than defer to a Melo type player.

I also agree that Hardaway ultimately should go when we can move him - he’ll hit his big shots (tied it up with a big 3 late last night), but overall he’s not what this team needs
Not  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 11:59 am : link
trying to be a Debbie Downer but the longer term pieces haven't done much.

Frank, Knox, Robinson, Vonleh has flashed but he's a FA, Trier has flashed and Dotson is looking like a player but it's still THjr, Kanter and Trey Burke (not that he's old) doing the majority of the "work".
Get Used to It  
Samiam : 10/23/2018 12:21 pm : link
This happened years ago when Hubie was coach. They were limited in talent but played very hard every game and kept it close until the end when the more talented team took the game over. You cant win in this league without talent and the Knicks don't have much talent plus they haven't played together and the new coach is trying out out different payers for for different units for different roles. They'll win some games playing against other bad teams that don't put in the Knicks effort especially in the Garden or against teams that have been on the road for while and are tired from the travel. I think we need to get used to close games that the Knicks end up losing.
RE: Not  
Jon in NYC : 10/23/2018 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14143408 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
trying to be a Debbie Downer but the longer term pieces haven't done much.

Frank, Knox, Robinson, Vonleh has flashed but he's a FA, Trier has flashed and Dotson is looking like a player but it's still THjr, Kanter and Trey Burke (not that he's old) doing the majority of the "work".


Robinson was always a project, and Knox has been hurt. He's the key to a lot of this.

Frank is kind of who he is at this point. Awesome defensive player, can hit some 3s, pass a bit, but will never be more than a 4th or 5th option.
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 10/23/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14143481 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14143408 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


trying to be a Debbie Downer but the longer term pieces haven't done much.

Frank, Knox, Robinson, Vonleh has flashed but he's a FA, Trier has flashed and Dotson is looking like a player but it's still THjr, Kanter and Trey Burke (not that he's old) doing the majority of the "work".



Robinson was always a project, and Knox has been hurt. He's the key to a lot of this.

Frank is kind of who he is at this point. Awesome defensive player, can hit some 3s, pass a bit, but will never be more than a 4th or 5th option.


I'm strictly talking about through the first 4 games. You could likely make the argument Trier/Dotson have been the 2 bright spots if we are talking about going forward.
RE: Not  
bceagle05 : 10/23/2018 12:30 pm : link
In comment 14143408 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
trying to be a Debbie Downer but the longer term pieces haven't done much.

Frank, Knox, Robinson, Vonleh has flashed but he's a FA, Trier has flashed and Dotson is looking like a player but it's still THjr, Kanter and Trey Burke (not that he's old) doing the majority of the "work".

Hard to get a read on anything when there are still three big pieces - KP, a top 10 pick, and (hopefully) a FA of some significance - to be introduced by the start of next season. Hopefully those three pieces push Burke, Timmy and possibly Kanter right off the roster in the near future. You could do a lot worse than having Trier/Dotson/Frank/Robinson as part of your bench unit.
RE: This  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/23/2018 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14143360 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
also shouldn't be a surprise, but Lance is +2 and Tim is -2.8. One contributes victories and the other takes away from them.

Look beyond the scoring.


You're right. Lance Thomas adds more value to this team.
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