I vowed to come on here and admit that I was off, way off, on my sense of where the team would be (and how strongly they would contend) were they to screw the pooch. They have and here I am. I thought that with an average to decent OL, Eli would rock it with Barkley, OBJ, Shepard and Engram and Shurmur calling the plays.
Yes, we could reel off 9 wins in a row, but that is extremely unlikely or most likely impossible.
I知 not disappointed in Eli, as contrary to many on here, I believe he physically has the goods. Mentally (PTSD?) is another story and at this point, I too would go with Lauletta.
Shurmur has been my biggest disappointment. I realize there痴 A LOT that goes on within that I知 not aware of. That said, I, for the life of me, cannot understand WHAT HAPPENS to playcallers (on both sides of the ball) who shine at that responsibility as coordinators, yet once they assume HC responsibilities, they lose that mo-jo.
McVay has been an exception and of course there have been others. I知 not referring to the additional burden of being a HC, that痴 a given. I知 ONLY referring to how you call a game compared to what brought you here in the first place. I知 surprised that he hasn稚 been what I so looked forward to vis a vis creative PC; utilizing the weapons he had to the fullest extent. Being able to work around a mediocre or poor OL. Again, who knows what goes on within, but from a lay perspective, I am MOST disappointed in Shurmur and what my expectations were of him calling this O.
Still love Bettcher and feel he was a very good get and will be moving forward.
I have little problem with Gettleman (though I was not thrilled with his hire) as he had his work cut out for him from the get-go and I do believe he had a good draft, but time will tell. He has changed over the roster as best he could with more to come. I am absolutely thrilled with Barkley. He indeed looks 組enerational but of course it痴 still early.
We obviously have work to do and yes, I disagree with many of you who insist that this is a rebuilding franchise. We致e cut much dead wood, will cut more, but as FMiC and other posters have repeatedly opined, this is a QUICK turnaround league as proven each year with teams going from worst to first or worst to extremely competitive. That has not happened to us, unfortunately, much to my surprise. We値l continue to add to a rather solid and young offensive talent, but as stated ad infinitum on here, we need to continue to fix the OL and the draft is the best way. We致e started with Hernandez, hopefully we slant heavily towards that in next year痴 draft, as Dallas has recently done.
Finally and as I致e opined ad nauseum, we have been to 3 SBs this millenium, winning 2, with two of the greatest playoff runs in history-certainly in my lifetime. Only the Steelers and the Pats have been to as many or more than us. I am grateful, extremely grateful for that, the mostly disappointing years since XLVI notwithstanding.
I have seen and appreciated Conerly, Tittle, Simms, Kerry at times and of course Eli. I was NOT a big fan of Eli in the beginning, but, as with some of us who weren稚 thrilled with him for the first 3+ years, I became a total convert after that 15-0 season finale against the Pats in 07 and now, I can emphatically say, he is my favorite all-time Giant, not the best, (LT was of course) but my unquestionable favorite. I believe he will be a lock for the HOF. Just not sure of WHEN.
For those who became fans after XLVI, I understand your angst, your vitriol. Even for those who have been around for all 5 SBs, I can understand your disgust at times. Though you池e extremely tired of hearing us old time fans lament this, there is no way you could possibly relate to 17 years of non-playoff football that we suffered through from 1964-1980. It was most painful to those of us who, from 1956-1963 saw the Giants go to 6 title games in 8 years, winning one, only to be followed by that 17 year drought.
I値l speak for myself and say, I致e been incredibly blessed, with these championships and great, exciting football. That has allowed me the ability to get through this mostly awful string of football. I have no complaints, OVERALL, as a long time Giants fan. None.
Oh, I plan to
It's not a tear down similar to what the Raiders are engaging in by trading away their best, most expensive talent for draft picks, but both teams are tearing it down as they see fit.
This organization has been a circus for the past 2 years and can't get out of it's own way. The GM "search" last year was a joke. The way Eli was handled last year was a joke. Odell, while a great player, has been tough to root for with all his BS. All the losing. The OL play. McAdoo and Shurmur's inability to lead men, the anarchy of the secondary last year, defense quitting late in games, Mara's chair incident, the Ram game debacle last year, etc etc.
It's the most embarrassing 2 year stretch I've experience as a fan. I'm 41. I also have no confidence in the people that are in the positions to try to fix it. Shurmur is clueless, Gettleman is misguided and Mara is the leader of this clown show.
Tough times.
Something is rotten in Denm ..as rk..or at Quest Diagnostics....
Befuddling
Good post 汨
Having said that I'd also entertain trading Eli to Jax (he may want to go at this point) for a draft pick.
Now they may indeed move to Lauletta this year and may release him after the season but I would still really like to see him with an average OL because I think he can still play at a high level....
You know what痴 affected the enjoyment as well? Social media. While it痴 fantastic during FA and the draft, the nanosecond posting of every move, twitch, etc., is or has become a huge turnoff
Seahawks have been to 2 SBs as well, won one, lost one, but I get your point.
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I've become so disgusted with the organization, the beat writers, the fan base ad almost everything about this team. Everything about this team right now is unlikable. I've never felt this way about this team before, maybe I'm just getting too old for this.
You know what痴 affected the enjoyment as well? Social media. While it痴 fantastic during FA and the draft, the nanosecond posting of every move, twitch, etc., is or has become a huge turnoff
Yup, I think you are absolutely correct on that front.
Plank: We need to find out asap if Lauletta could be that guy moving forward before draft time, though picking what is deemed a franchise QB would be fine with me. And yes, I壇 be very happy if Eli (and sad) went to Jax, as remote as that is
Seahawks have been to 2 SBs as well, won one, lost one, but I get your point.
Sorry, I meant 3 or more SBs
18 straight completions to end the game....just about last in every defensive stat...
Ok. I can agree as to possibly worst or near worst in the league
The absence of excellence is astonishing.
What about Beckham and Barkley? I don稚 think Beckham is all the way back from the injury. He doesn稚 seem to have the same explosiveness. He痴 not turning CBs around when running his routes to the extent that he used to. The run after catch is not the same either. He痴 the highest paid WR in football, but he痴 not the best WR in football.
Barkley has no holes to run through. There痴 nothing there. It痴 all individual effort. He痴 taking a lot of hits and if the OL doesn稚 greatly improve and quickly, he is going to have a short career.
And just how bad is the OL? My God, it痴 terrible. It痴 absolutely horrendous. I was shocked by the inability to open a hole for a runner. There was nothing there for Barkley. On pass plays, there is no pocket. Almost immediately it seems that the OL has no control whatsoever. They are all pushed back and just hanging on, it seems. This is the worst OL the Giants have fielded since the 70s. Again, I was shocked at the abysmal and hopeless OL situation.
And also, Engram seems lost out there. He doesn稚 seem to know where to line up far too often. I understand he痴 coming off a knee injury. Still, I was not impressed.
And the defense? It痴 not good. This is not a good defense. I知 not thrilled with Bettcher. Don稚 kid yourself about the defense. This defense can稚 win games for you.
There痴 no need to even mention the QB. This team sucks. The talent isn稚 there. The coaching is suspect. Might as well put Joe Piscarcik out there.
Sure, Eli is contributing to this. It seems that while the physical skills are still there, the mental or psychological toll of playing behind a league worst OL for a handful of seasons has done him in.
It's over. It's ok to acknowledge it's over without dumping on one of the greatest (both personally and professionally) to ever put on this uniform.
This is a quick turnaround league, but that doesn't mean every team can turn it quickly. Making 4 or 5 good moves can flip a team's fortune's very quickly. The problem is the moves made by this team last offseason were not generally not good.
The jury is still out on Hernandez, but the Solder and Omameh signings were both bad moves that may have made matters even worse. You have to pay through the nose in free agency to try and fix bad drafting, but the Giants paid through the nose for guys that are now part of the problem. Moves like those keep teams at the bottom of the league.
I had a ton of faith in both Gettleman and Shurmur coming in but both have shown little so far. The bigger issue in my mind is that the structure over them is even more dysfunctional.
Barkley is a piece you can build around. Unlike many I think OBJ is as well. I don't give a crap about his antics and I think the media and fans pay it way too much attention. Snacks is the only other guy on this roster I could think of who I would be disappointed to see let go. But other than that? There isn't a player on this team that has shown they are part of the solution going forward.
This front office seems to have squandered another year with poor decisions, as the arrow from last year has not budged.
Agree regarding the disappointment with Shurmur; he looks completely lost. This will get uglier before it gets better.
The team going forward needs to be built around Barkley. Of course an elite QB would be great and a QB needs to be drafted next year (unless in the very, very unlikely event Lauletta sets the world on fire the second half of the season).
I just feel really sorry for Eli it has to end this way.
But ultimately this is as much cultural as it is talent. And John Mara allowed this to creep in to his team and failed to recognize it. Now, it is a mess and I sense will get worse before it gets better.
I hope I am wrong...I would love to see a run but that is not going to happen. I am not as forgiving as Bruce because, in my 57 years as a Giants fan, the vast majority of that has not been good.
Like you '56 went thru the Dark Age where the FO was clueless. I think Gettleman blew it completely on Omameh and then overrated Solder. His draft picks appear to be solid.
I just think Eli cannot flourish behind a questionable line. Last night Ryan's line was barely better and he did fine. These mobile QBs can overcome a bad line. As proof, Eli is pretty good on the roll outs and I wish they could do it more.
I'm not ready to give up on Shurmur, yet. He does miss some things and the play calling is meh sometimes, but he probably more than aware of how bad the line is and what he is limited to doing because of it.
Their best bet for the future is our biggest nightmare - losing out and getting the top pick in the draft.
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its sad times now, but eventually we will be good again.
Oh, I plan to
You might as well stick around for the rest of the year at this point.
The over/under was 6 games and I took the under.
;>)
Imagine him with mediocre o-linemen (yes ours will have to improve to attain that exalted level) who actually harass the opponent before being physically defeated.
I agree with most of what you wrote above. I guess my favorite quarterback is Simms, mostly because of the aforementioned 64 to 80' span and what he accomplished.
I don't think Eli is a lock for the HOF. Unfortunately Eli will probably end up with a losing record and the past 5 seasons will be hard to ignore
I started to write a post something like this and BB'56's, who, as usual nails it. My approach was slightly different. Yes to all that and especially what Reb said ... I'm embarrassed that the wheels of this great, storied, classic franchise have fallen off. The wagon is in disarray and so close to a laughing stock (if not already). I can tolerate losing seasons (as most of us already can) but everything to quote Reb is just plain unlikeable. Even the saving graces of Barkley, OBJ, Engram and,yes Eli) lose their luster under the sheer impotence of the team and management. It's like walking around with a scarlet G sewn on our football souls. Nothing left to grab on to. Nothing to cheer, nothing to root for == as Gertrude Stein said, "There's no there there." But ... it's my team and I will always be loyal to it.
I agree with yo on Shurmur. I am extremely disappointed in him as a Head Coach too. I've got my doubts about the Oline Coach, as well. He's a guy that was out of football last year and coached arguably another terrible Oline with the Colts.
Anyway, nothing will take away my fan card. I will always be a Giant fan through thick and thin, as well. I had the pleasure of also seeing the Giants in 5 Super Bowls, winning 4 and the ride that got us there. I also experienced the Giants of the 70's and was ecstatic when they hired George Young and then Ray Perkins. I'll give Shurmur and DG 1 more season to see if they can turn it around before clamoring for a new regime. But it is always difficult to be in this type of situation.
I know its not halfway through the season but how can you look at last night and say the arrow is pointing up. Shurmurs playcalling, scheming and clock management (not to mention his awkward press conferences) are horrendous and not improving. I like Gettlemans draft so far but his free agency pickups have been nothing but busts. I still think he HAD to get Solder but the money spent on Omameh and STEWART of all people leaves me SERIOUSLY worried that he is the wrong guy for the job. While Bettchers Defense isn't horrendous, it doesn't impress me. While last night, with the exception of a few plays they were decent, they couldn't stop Carolina when it counted, they couldn't stop Dallas and they didn't show up against New ORleans. When you make the Jags and especially Blake Bortles look good, you have issues. I guess my disappointment in Solder is he was going to be the Rock that the line was built around and while he has talked a decent game he hasn't played one. Reflecting further, I guess I can say that about Eli. I am on the'its not Eli's fault' team. My issues with Eli is not his mobility or happy feet, but he has no fire. That was always the case and it was/is part of the reason he was able to 'survive' in NY. He is low key, easy E. these past few years that has not been what this team has needed. You can try to have Odell lead, or someone on the defense, but Odell is a little to selfish and no one else has stepped up. With lack of leadership or fiery leadership I don't think you can motivate a lot of your teammates.
I'm not sure that Lauletta sees any more success than Eli, but heck, give him a shot and let him run for his life. Shurmur needs to hand off play calling and focus on time management, player management (Odell on the sidelines during the game) and just take on the bigger picture roll of a head coach. Gettleman needs to make a couple of trades. If there is a team that needs to know no one is safe its this team. Plus its not like ANYONE(besides Barkley) is a total game changer on this roster. Get some other draft picks. Not sure what Bettcher needs to do. Blitz more often, especially in the beginning of the game? Keep rotating guys in on the OL and see what you can find. Same with DB's. Its been a long few seasons. And this one is only getting longer.
The late 60's and 70's was just plain awful football.
We are in the midst of 6 years of bad football that seems to get worse every game.
I disagree that we are not in a total rebuild. We have 6 to 10 players that we can build around but we have huge holes all through the lineup.
I am really disappointed in DG's free agent pickups but his draft class looks very good. I will give him time to rebuild the team.
Not sure about PS who seems shocked at times on how bad the talent is on this team. He of course will always say the right thing to the media.
I blame Mara for this current mess.
I will continue to root my ass off for this team but we have a long way to go to becoming a SB contending team. We have hit rock bottom unfortunately.
Stewart money was a headscratcher though I understand the intent. Omameh is awful, though I thought at the time he was better than what we had.
Still not understanding Tanney, but it痴 a small contract.
Keepers: P and PK, Engram, Shepard, Ogletree, Carter, Hill, Tomlinson, Jenkins, Vernon(though he might be cut), Snacks, Hernandez, Solder (no choice at this point). I知 sure I知 leaving out some
However, I don稚 blame HC for Eli being immobile, gunshy, and for the OL being inept at times. Having said that, I believe if we go quick paced, this would reduce some of those problems mentioned.
Keepers: P and PK, Engram, Shepard, Ogletree, Carter, Hill, Tomlinson, Jenkins, Vernon(though he might be cut), Snacks, Hernandez, Solder (no choice at this point). I知 sure I知 leaving out some
Fwiw, I'd listen to offers for Jenkins and put Gallman on the keepers list. He's a good, young player ona rookie deal.
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Untouchables: Barkley, OBJ, Collins
Keepers: P and PK, Engram, Shepard, Ogletree, Carter, Hill, Tomlinson, Jenkins, Vernon(though he might be cut), Snacks, Hernandez, Solder (no choice at this point). I知 sure I知 leaving out some
Fwiw, I'd listen to offers for Jenkins and put Gallman on the keepers list. He's a good, young player ona rookie deal.
No problem with that. I壇 listen to offers for Snacks and OV, though I壇 prefer to keep them