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When Opportunity Presents Itself, The Giants Whiff

arcarsenal : 10/23/2018 10:43 am
Throughout the course of any football game, there are several "high leverage" plays or drives. These are pretty easy to sense/determine. They're the plays that can either flip momentum, get the team back in it, hold serve in a key spot, etc.

Nearly every time a play or a situation like this surfaces, the Giants come out on the losing end of it. They either fail to execute, commit a penalty, can't come up with a defensive stop, or turn the ball over.

2nd Quarter - 7-0, ATL - the Giants are on the 9 yard line with a 2nd and 6. A touchdown ties the football game. Eli and Odell fail to hook up.

3rd and 6 from the 9. Eli gets sacked.

Giants settle for 3 instead of tying the game.

Then, with 50 seconds left and just 1 timeout, Atlanta manages to negate that 3 point cut we put in their lead largely due to a 38 yard pass interference penalty on Michael Thomas

Down 10-3, the Giants get the ball after half and go all the way down the field after hooking up on a big 53 yard pass play to Shepard.

3rd and goal from the ATL 1 - another chance to tie the game.

Barkley is stuffed for no gain.

4th and goal from the ATL 1

Eli rolls out to the right and throws an incomplete pass to our 3rd string TE.

Instead of tying the game, the Giants come away with nothing.

On the following drive, Matt Ryan is sacked for a 7 yard loss on 3rd and 10 from the ATL 20 - but instead of getting the ball right back with what would have been great FP, Eli Apple pulls and grabs at Julio Jones, gets called for defensive holding and ATL gets an automatic 1st down.

The Giants manage to force a turnover, get the ball back, and hit on ANOTHER big play...

This time, it's a 51 yarder to Beckham.

With a 1st and 10 from the ATL 18, the Giants are still trailing 10-3. They again have a chance to tie the game with a touchdown.

The next 3 plays...

1 10 ATL 18 Eli Manning pass incomplete short left intended for Evan Engram 3 10 4.370 3.800
3 4:04 2 10 ATL 18 Eli Manning pass incomplete short left intended for Sterling Shepard 3 10 3.800 3.050
3 4:00 3 10 ATL 18 Eli Manning pass incomplete deep right intended for Sterling Shepard


Once again, the Giants fail to make a play and settle for 3 points instead of tying the football game.

Finally, the Giants score a touchdown - but they fail on the 2pt. So, now it's an 8 point game - meaning, the defense cannot give up any points in order to keep it a 1 score game.

Sure enough, ATL goes right from their own 25 yard line to our 38 where Tavecchio kicks another FG to make it a 2 score game. Again, the Giants have a chance to make a stop / make a play and come up empty.

Now, with under 2 minutes to go, it is a 2 score game - rendering our TD with 5 seconds remaining in the game meaningless.

I know all I am doing here is re-hashing things that everyone else saw - but it is almost astounding how the Giants routinely fail to make plays in high leverage situations or win drives at key points in games.

And it wasn't just this game - you can go back to week one - muffing a punt when the offense could have had a chance to go down the field and win the game. Not being able to keep Carolina from kicking a FG to beat us at the gun. Our games are littered with stuff like this until they're out of reach.

The coaching is bad, the execution is bad, a lot of the personnel is bad.

You can bet money that any time the Giants need to make a play - they won't.
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Well, I do think Mara was  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/23/2018 11:59 am : link
incredibly sensitive to what happened to Eli publicly last year. While perhaps he didn't state to all interviewees 'Eli is the starter. Case closed', he stuck with someone he felt comfortable with (DG)/probably knew how DG felt Eli had year(s) left.
.  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 12:02 pm : link
Gettleman and Shurmur have done just fine on their own portraying themselves as buffoons.
RE: Everyone is still..  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/23/2018 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14143393 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
working off the assumption that there was a directive to build around Eli.

I mostly believe that's what is leading the charge to portray Gettleman and Shurmur as buffoons.

Some people have ummm rich imaginations. Eh that's most people.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2018 12:04 pm : link
Maybe they were fine with this being the alternative to things working with Eli.

We will now likely go into next season with a top 3 pick, the ability to cut Eli and clear 17M in space, and another draft that you'd want to yield more OL help.

The worst thing for the Giants actually would have been a 7-9 season where they said "well, we were close! Let's keep going with Eli... status quo seems good enough"

If we weren't going to be capable of competing this year, the second best thing is being awful.
RE: .  
Thegratefulhead : 10/23/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14143417 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman and Shurmur have done just fine on their own portraying themselves as buffoons.
Cannot argue with that either.
RE: Everyone is still..  
jcn56 : 10/23/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14143393 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
working off the assumption that there was a directive to build around Eli.

I mostly believe that's what is leading the charge to portray Gettleman and Shurmur as buffoons.


Why? With a directive, you could at least excuse the results by saying they were forced to do it.

Gettleman and Shurmur look like buffoons because of the results, and because the Giants continue to trend downwards. You're not seeing any improvement, despite a significant amount of change driven by Gettleman. Even if you expected a losing season, did you expect this?
RE: .  
Thegratefulhead : 10/23/2018 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14143422 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Maybe they were fine with this being the alternative to things working with Eli.

We will now likely go into next season with a top 3 pick, the ability to cut Eli and clear 17M in space, and another draft that you'd want to yield more OL help.

The worst thing for the Giants actually would have been a 7-9 season where they said "well, we were close! Let's keep going with Eli... status quo seems good enough"

If we weren't going to be capable of competing this year, the second best thing is being awful.
True. If we get our QB in the next draft and a couple more good OLs the arrow can start pointing up. I still like Herbert regardless of his first half against Cougars when Gameday was on campus. I live in eastern Washington. It was a big fucking deal. The entire state was fired up. Oregon was was coming off a big win against their arch rival Huskies. The emotion level difference for the teams was obvious.
I don't even..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2018 12:09 pm : link
get this line of thinking:

Quote:
Well they certainly didn’t come up with an alternative plan. The Saints can trade for Bridgewater with Brees in place, but the Giants cleared the deck for Eli. I’m fine with keeping Eli, but no backup plan is inexcusable


They "cleared the deck"?? By doing what, cutting Davis Webb? Basically people are saying that we made moves to win now and build around eli because we drafted Barkley. But that makes it sound like Barkley is just some schmo and the team passed up other, better prospects to draft him.

We have no idea if there is a plan or not. If they end up drafting a QB who becomes a long-term starter and they end up actually fixing the OL - this team immediately becomes competitive. Everyone is so fixated on drafting a QB because of the hyped prospects that they ignore that the team can still go RB and then QB with great future results - look at the Rams.

The idea that this was one last shot to get Eli a ring is somewhat laughable given some of the moves that were made. Outside of the Stewart signing which was pretty bad (but done before the draft), we went after guys who would be expected to be here a few years. We cut JPP. We still had Flowers as a guy on the OL. We cut Hart and let Pugh and Richburg go elsewhere. DRC too. That doesn't say to me they are all-in - yet it gets posted here frequently that they were.

Basically because they picked Barkley, much to the dislike of most of the board, there's been a shitload of rationalization and conspiratorial theories with Eli being a member of the Illuminati or something with rampant speculation that this year's goal was to win it all and send Eli off to the sunset.
One thing is painfully clear  
djm : 10/23/2018 12:12 pm : link
The giants have been reactive rather than proactive. They react to everything from the play on the field and media and fan backlash. I really think things were looking good after the 14-15 seasons. They did take a long game approach there but then fired coughlin and hired a mistake and it’s been all downhill ever since. Now they are stuck in a position of weakness. Can’t fire the new regime, it’s too soon. So when it is ok? Next year? Then what?

The giants need to just make the right move(a) and forget about perception or conventional wisdom.

I give up. All I know is when no one has the answer or when everyone has a different solution it’s bad. Very bad. Remember having the same stupid tired convos in the mid 90s. It’s Dave browns fault no it’s not he’s got no talent. Rinse repeat.

It’s everyone’s fault but it always always always starts at the top. Leadership, qb. In that order.
Draft  
Thegratefulhead : 10/23/2018 12:12 pm : link
DGs draft is looking good. He changed the entire way we evaluate players. It was our first season of it. If we see Kyle & McIntosh play and they look good, an above average draft will turn into an outstanding one, if those 2 just turn into decent Back Ups. If Kyle turns out to be a starter, the draft turns to amazing.
The Rams aren't good because they picked Gurley before Goff  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 12:16 pm : link
They're good because they have perhaps the second best coach and best coaching staff in the league. I wouldn't point to them to support the rationale for picking Barkley over Darnold.

And if there's any rationalizing going on, it's been from the people justifying the Barkley pick. It's been a wave of rationalizations and refuting of previously accepted truths since the draft.

One thing I'm completely certain of: had we picked Darnold there wouldn't be a single BBIer saying we should have drafted Barkley.
This is..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2018 12:21 pm : link
utter bullshit:

Quote:
One thing I'm completely certain of: had we picked Darnold there wouldn't be a single BBIer saying we should have drafted Barkley.


If we had Darnold and he's out there with more turnovers than TD's and we see Barkley getting 100+ yards every game with another team - you can bet your ass people would be complaining.

Especially if we are 1-6.
RE: Gettleman and Shurmur have to go  
bw in dc : 10/23/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14143207 Go Terps said:
Quote:


I don't think Mara is a fool like the Dolans and Wilpons, so I actually have some hope he can lead this team back to where we all want it to go. But he needs to wake up, look around him, and realize the extent the whole system has been allowed to go stale.


God bless you - I enjoy reading your posts and your general way of thinking. But if you really think Mara is going to make the right decisions at this point - after the evidence keeps pouring in that he's incapable of being trusted to do so - than you have lost your way as much as Mara.

This team is the Titanic. And Captain Mara has just crashed into an iceberg.
FMIC  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 12:23 pm : link
Quote:
We have no idea if there is a plan or not. If they end up drafting a QB who becomes a long-term starter and they end up actually fixing the OL - this team immediately becomes competitive.


For every positive "if", there are several negative "ifs". What if Herbert shreds his knee or stays in school? What if someone picks him ahead of us? What if it takes three years to fix the OL and we're already looking at paying Barkley by that point?

When a plan is built on the word "if", it's not a plan at all. An engineer wouldn't construct a flimsy bridge in San Francisco and say, "Hey if there's no earthquake we're fine."

the results this year have proven one thing  
Greg from LI : 10/23/2018 12:23 pm : link
RB is not a position that has a major impact on wins and losses.
With the draft..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2018 12:25 pm : link
the NFL is full of "ifs" as cornerstones of plans:

Quote:
When a plan is built on the word "if", it's not a plan at all


If Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen or Allen prove not to be long-term starters, their respective teams will be in the crapper for awhile.
RE: This is..  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14143474 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
utter bullshit:



Quote:


One thing I'm completely certain of: had we picked Darnold there wouldn't be a single BBIer saying we should have drafted Barkley.



If we had Darnold and he's out there with more turnovers than TD's and we see Barkley getting 100+ yards every game with another team - you can bet your ass people would be complaining.

Especially if we are 1-6.


I don't think so. I think people would (rightly) see it as growing pains for a rookie QB; part of a growing process for the whole team. You know why? Because we know that running backs are easily found and easily replaced, and you don't need the best RB talent in the league to have a great offense.
RE: With the draft..  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14143489 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the NFL is full of "ifs" as cornerstones of plans:



Quote:


When a plan is built on the word "if", it's not a plan at all



If Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen or Allen prove not to be long-term starters, their respective teams will be in the crapper for awhile.


Then we shouldn't feel so bad because the Giants aren't the only team being run by incompetent people.
RE: the results this year have proven one thing  
bw in dc : 10/23/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14143487 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
RB is not a position that has a major impact on wins and losses.


In-fuckin-deed.

There is not a position that is more fungible than RB.

But, hey, Barkley is fun to watch. And he moves merchandise for Jints Central. And he makes ESPN top ten plays...So enjoy the trade-off...
The Giants..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2018 12:32 pm : link
clearly aren't the only team run poorly.

Heck, the worst thing for a lot of teams in the NFC was the Panthers changing ownership as Richardson was borderline insane and Tepper has his shit together.

Most of the teams that drafted high last year have ownership warts, as well as 3/4th of our division.
And while..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2018 12:35 pm : link
people continue to bemoan the lack of a plan, one thing seems certain - - we are cleaning house of the bad attitudes and malcontents.
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