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The Madden Test - Shurmur Failed

Oscar : 10/23/2018 11:36 am
This is a phenomenon that predates Shurmur by years and years, but it’s still mind boggling when you see it play out. A situation that highly paid, experienced NFL coaches routinely get wrong but your average teenage Madden junky would easily get right.

Bill Simmons gets credit for publicizing this over the years; it’s always resonated with me because as a kid playing Madden I understood it. I don’t know why NFL coaches don’t.

The situation last night:

1:50 left, Giants ball, losing 23-13. Obviously a win is very unlikely, but in order to win you need at least a touchdown and a field goal. Two scores in 1:50. A TD will take longer to score than a FG - you want to allocate as much time as you can to the TD drive but you need enough time to kick a FG as well. The best solution is to kick the field goal as soon as you can to get that out of the way and preserve clock. Then you can proceed with your touchdown drive attempt knowing exactly how much time you have left and managing the game and your risk accordingly.

So, last night, first play of the drive - 58 yard pass to Shepherd. Great! First down on the Atlanta 14, 1:36 left. Kick the field goal! This is close to the best outcome you could have asked for after one play. Take your three points and go try to convert an onside kick (which is required in any winning scenario). If that works you will have say 1:25 left to get your TD.

What did the Giants do? They focused on getting a touchdown, eventually succeeded but ate up all of the remaining clock with their attempt, leaving only five seconds for a FG after an onside kick. This also influenced their onside kick options because they needed to recover the ball already in range, otherwise they wouldn’t have time.

Shurmur is not alone in getting this wrong. Coaches get it wrong more often than not. The only explanation I can come up with is that a teenager playing Madden has no real consequences if they lose so they are free to make a clear headed decision to try and win the game. Whereas NFL coaches worry about making a controversial or wrong decision and getting blowback or losing their job, so they go for the TD because it’s somehow viewed as more defensible.



I'm sure if you passed  
section125 : 10/23/2018 11:37 am : link
this to DG, he will excoriate Shurmur.....
If it was a pass to the 30, sure.  
jogo1 : 10/23/2018 11:39 am : link
But setting up for a 30 yard field goal only 15 yards away from the endzone seems questionable at best.
Oscar you are correct  
Chris684 : 10/23/2018 11:41 am : link
Coaches do this all the time and it drives me crazy.

I was thinking it during the Dallas-Redskins game on Sunday too.

You NEED two scores. As soon as you get in position to knock one of those off the board (with a reasonable FG that any pro kicker should make), you need to take the opportunity and extend the game.

I think this theory is correct outside the red zone  
montanagiant : 10/23/2018 11:42 am : link
But once inside the 20 you have to go for the TD
You're talking about Madden,  
Go Terps : 10/23/2018 11:43 am : link
but our front office uses a different technology...

Not sure you can kick the fg from inside the 15 there  
Giants in 07 : 10/23/2018 11:45 am : link
Generally your idea is more for when the team is on the fringe of FG range.
LOL  
GiantsFan84 : 10/23/2018 11:46 am : link
come on man
RE: You're talking about Madden,  
jcn56 : 10/23/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 14143353 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but our front office uses a different technology...



You nerds and your fancy 'Ataris' (waves hands)...

We ran the simulation in practice and the sneaks were the right call.

But if you score a TD  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/23/2018 11:47 am : link
You outright win when you score another TD.
RE: RE: You're talking about Madden,  
Motley Two : 10/23/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 14143363 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143353 Go Terps said:


Quote:


but our front office uses a different technology...





You nerds and your fancy 'Ataris' (waves hands)...

We ran the simulation in practice and the sneaks were the right call.



Sweet Analytics, Bro
You are right in general  
Jerry in DC : 10/23/2018 11:58 am : link
But you also have to consider the possibility of scoring 2 TDs to win the game in regulation. The more time on the clock, the higher likelihood that is. We would really have to think through what the clock threshold is for kicking the fg immediately
Madden players cant get fired  
jpetuch : 10/23/2018 11:59 am : link
but NFL coaches do.
RE: Madden players cant get fired  
jtfuoco : 10/23/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14143405 jpetuch said:
Quote:
but NFL coaches do.


Not true if you have a 3 win season but told the press in the preseason that you thought you would be a playoff team you get fired in Madden. Its happen to me in our BBI madden league before.
Usually  
TyreeHelmet : 10/23/2018 12:20 pm : link
That is the correct call. But that situation last night called for them to get in ge endzone. They just didn’t do it properly with the clock.
RE: You're talking about Madden,  
jtfuoco : 10/23/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14143353 Go Terps said:
Quote:
but our front office uses a different technology...



LOL that was a good one.
a good madden player / hypothetical smart coach  
Azul Grande : 10/23/2018 12:52 pm : link
would, upon getting a big play to the 15, throw 3 times into the endzone and then kick the FG.

but the quick FG is defensible.

what's not defensible? two qb sneaks from the 2 yard line with a qb that has never been good at sneaks.
Well, forgetting your use of Madden  
jvm52106 : 10/23/2018 1:07 pm : link
as a way to decide how to play I will say the clear miss here was not kicking the FG right away it was the fucking throws to the middle of the field where being tackled means losing a TON of time. Once we got to the 14, the plays have to be quick to the sideline or in the endzone, PERIOD! We royally fucked that up. The two sneak attempts were pathetic.
RE: You are right in general  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 10/23/2018 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14143403 Jerry in DC said:
Quote:
But you also have to consider the possibility of scoring 2 TDs to win the game in regulation. The more time on the clock, the higher likelihood that is. We would really have to think through what the clock threshold is for kicking the fg immediately


And how do you score that second touchdown when you leave 5 seconds on the clock.

How about you do not go for 2 on the previous touchdown. Then you could kick the field goal, and if you score a touchdown afterwards, you can either go for the tie or for the win with a 2 point try.
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