I'm thinking at least a third but holding out hope for a 2nd. He's still under team control for another year or two right? Also, Saints pick won't be high.
was able to regain some value to be traded, unlike Flowers. So there is that. I hope Gettlemen isn't done. The Giants should put everyone on the roster not named Saquon on the block.
that would have put the Giants in great position to take control of the game probably did him in. I was so pissed seeing him laughing after his hold cost us a great stop deep in Falcons territory. Good riddance. Go cry to momma.
Gotta say I'm a bit surprised. His play was improved, though the bar was set low last season and he was a bit unreliable health wise.
Kyle I know you are an OSU guy, but come on, there was a lot more then "health" with him.
For sure, although there seemingly hadn't been issues of that sort this season. But maybe there was more to it behind the scenes.
True, you didn't hear much from his Mom or family issues, so maybe he separated himself from that to focus on football. Who knows, let's just hope we get something valuable in return, otherwise, what a waste of a top 10 pick.
Even if he wasn't a bust as a player (which I think he is) he's a bust for the Giants because he was a top 10 pick and off the team in not even 3 full seasons. You can't keep missing on high picks like that (and Flowers) and expect consistent successful seasons to follow.
is, it's how bad the next guy is. As bad as you may think Apple is, Grant Haley or BW Webb are much, much worse.
So for those people calling for blowing it up or tanking you should be happy, but assuming this trade is for a draft pick, in no way does it help the Giants on the field IMO.
And I'm fine with that, just to be clear though.
And Saints are going for it in Brees' career twilight. They already have no 1st or 3rd round pick next year (2 of the 3 picks I'd care about).
don't think we'll get much, but it will hopefully be the beginning of other trades. We need to clean house. Apple was playing better, but this team needs draft picks and other resources.
if that's even possible. But he's had enough issues to make him easily expendable regardless of the return.
Apple and Flowers were certainly Reese's undoing. Up until that point, he had a good track record in the early rounds, but picking that high up twice and coming away empty is going to cost you your job.
but for some reason if Eli were to be traded (and he would have to agree), why do I feel like Denver would be the spot? The Broncos probably just lost their backup QB (either to arrest or suspension because of the arrest) and Keenum has sucked.. A Manning return to Denver would spark a LOT of interest.
Another hole on the team at a premium position. Needs for next year in no order (RG, RT, C, QB, ER, FS, CB x 2); we are years away from returning to glory
I thought the guy was playing OK. Why did this happen?
another Reese casualty. shitty attitude that couldnt be tolerated because of his less than stellar play on the field. it was bound to happen at some point
First, I think Shurmur/Gettlemen are jettisoning anyone with a bad attitude
Second, we as fans don't really know who is at fault a lot of times in the secondary. We tend to blame the guy closest to the ball, but sometimes they are just covering for someone else who blew it, or they left their man to help out (and then their man gets the pass). So unless we know the exact defensive scheme we really have no clue if Apple was playing better than before, or than Jenkins. All I know is Ryan completed 80% of his passes and like 18 in a row.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
He rarely, if ever, covers #1 WRs without help. When he does, he gets toasted or just holds on for dear life. He is oft injured. He takes plays off constantly. He shies away from contact...but other than those things ...great player.
Hamilton or Webb in all likelihood. We'll see more of Haley and Jordan as well. As I said, I applaud this move, especially since the compensation we received was more than I expected for Apple. I also hope it's the first of other trades.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Beginning? The purge began last winter. 33 new players out of 53. Now Flowers and Apple are gone, too.
If they went purely by performance, this is a mistake - he wasn't that bad, he's young, and he's cheap. You still need to field a team.
If they went by his off the field demeanor and work ethic, then I'm fine with what they got back. Guys like that can't be fixed, they need to be moved.
Collins should be next. Mr. DPOY hasn't made a big time play in 2 years. Shop the Jack rabbit/quiter as well. Pretty much everyone who's last name isn't Barkley, Beckham or Hernandez should be shopped.
than to see threads up and down BBI with news of traded Giants. Landon Collins, Sterling Shepard, Snacks Harrison, Janoris Jenkins, Olivier Vernon - all could help contending teams.
I look forward to his mommy tweeting about the Giants Â
Not bad??? Saints will pick in the bottom half of the draft that makes it closer to a 5th for a cb who is playing much better than that. And how many 7th rounders make an impact? we should have held out for a 3rd or kept him. He is under control for two years with the5th year option.
than to see threads up and down BBI with news of traded Giants. Landon Collins, Sterling Shepard, Snacks Harrison, Janoris Jenkins, Olivier Vernon - all could help contending teams.
Collins and Shepard - what team do you plan on fielding?
Or are you just anxious to see what Gettleman could do with a bunch of 3rd and 4th round picks and more FA money? After the bang up job paying Solder and Omameh...
RE: So now the shockey 2nd round pick moves to a Â
If they went purely by performance, this is a mistake - he wasn't that bad, he's young, and he's cheap. You still need to field a team.
If they went by his off the field demeanor and work ethic, then I'm fine with what they got back. Guys like that can't be fixed, they need to be moved.
All those things mean he's not getting a 2nd contract here. If that is the case, he's only cheap for 1 more year while his trade value craters (see Flowers). The season is lost and next year is probably another rebuild, get a couple of Day 3 picks and let some fringe guys like Haley get some burn. Maybe we get lucky with one of those guys in addition to the compensation.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
Clearly you haven't seen Curtis Riley play safety.
RE: So now the shockey 2nd round pick moves to a Â
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
Clearly you haven't seen Curtis Riley play safety.
The difference is that Riley tries to tackle. If he was smart like Apple he would just avoid the ball carrier altogether
I bet OBJ would luuuuvvvv a trade to LA right about now
I'd love to give it to him. Give us two first round picks and call it a done deal.
Said it last night in the game thread give me 22 OBJ's. I'd win a hell of a lot more football games than this steaming pile of shit of a roster has the past 2 years. I'll just get plenty of kicking nets and ear plugs. Say what you want but between the lines that guy is flat out a ball player.
Not a bad return?? For a top 10 first rounder on his rookie deal? The return blows- a near 5th rounder and a 7th rounder next year??
Who gives a crap where he was drafted? Guess the Giants should have gotten a 1st for Flowers then, huh? Two draft picks for a quitter CB who holds every play and won't tackle is OK with me.
RE: Taking Ereck Flowers at 9 and Eli Apple at 10 Â
Eli Apple is a losing player - they were lucky to get anything for him. I'm fine with the return.
Step 1 is acquiring draft picks in quantity.
Step 2 is scouting to maximize what we get out of that quantity of draft picks.
Step 3 is actually relying on the draft picks to play. For example, we are better served by going with Lauletta than we are using another resource at QB.
This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Apple couldn’t cover a piece of toast with butter. He sucks. Eli is done, he suffers from tunnel vision, he can’t see the open receivers. OBJ, Shepard, Barkley are all studs! If we had a QB that could see the field and run if need be we would be a contender. It’s hockey time my friends....Go Devils.
RE: This is probably not the last trade either.... Â
This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
Thing is, he was brought in to improve the CB position..... Â
he played much like the guy who left - Amukamara. He always had decent skills at sticking with the receiver, however he could never make a play on the ball. CB is now a bigger need next year too. I'm hoping Beals is the real deal or we will be hurting.
This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
It's not so simple to trade guys on sizable contracts in season. If I understand it correctly, the remaining cap hit accelerates and we do not have much cap space right now to absorb that. So Vernon, Jenkins, etc may have to wait until the offseason. Rookie contracts like this one are much easier to move
Hearing the Eli Apple trade may just be tip of the iceberg. Strong perception among other teams thag the Giants are "open for business' ahead of next week's trade deadline
This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
It's not so simple to trade guys on sizable contracts in season. If I understand it correctly, the remaining cap hit accelerates and we do not have much cap space right now to absorb that. So Vernon, Jenkins, etc may have to wait until the offseason. Rookie contracts like this one are much easier to move
Correct, my point was he’s probably the only player we’d reasonably get more than a 3 or 4 for.
Said it last night in the game thread give me 22 OBJ's. I'd win a hell of a lot more football games than this steaming pile of shit of a roster has the past 2 years. I'll just get plenty of kicking nets and ear plugs. Say what you want but between the lines that guy is flat out a ball player.
According to the prosportstransactions site that keeps track of these things, it's never been confirmed whether the 7th we traded to the Broncos was ours or the Rams.
The problem I have with this is all these players with Â
"attitude problems" when it seems like our GM might have an attitude problem.
OBJ, JPP, Jackrabbit, DRC, Apple, Flowers. Now Solder saying his unprepared, Omameh on the bench. You are basically saying most of our first round picks and a lot of our free agent dollars have attitude problems. Is that true or do we have a talent evaluation and management problem?
This is a shitty return for where he was drafted and the length left on his deal. It is one thing to trade a high priced guy like JPP, it's another to trade someone on a rookie deal. This move smacks of the kind of deal the Browns make a Barkevious Mingo type deal. Speaks to a rotting culture.
Clean house again. This time for real. Start at the top. I'm pretty sure i'm done going to games until this happens.
Apple was playing pretty well this year and whomever said he can't tackle is a moron. He tackles well and hits hard. His problem was attitude. Does he miss some tackles, occasionally, but for the most part what he hits goes down. And for all the gnashing of teeth on his holding, have you seen what CBs do to Beckham or any good WR. They all clutch and grab. On the route OBJ crossed up Eli, the CB grabbed OBJ off the line and had some jersey as Odell went past.
A 4th rounder isn't great, but it is realistic with a 7th the next year.
Glad he is gone and they got something for him. Let the reboot begin.
Have the Giants so promptly done precisely what I asked for during the game (last night). I am amazed and pleased. It is more important that he's gone, and was removed at once after last night's disastrous performance, than whatever we got for him.
1. He NEVER had cover skills. Not even in college. I saw the film on him and could not believe that we drafted that mother fucker.
2. He never had a feel for the game. No ball awareness.
3. He was definitely a good tackler and provided decent run support.
4. He did not have the heart for this game on the professional level. His mind is elsewhere.
When I played, this was not a guy I wanted on my defense. I think some of the other guys we picked up played well enough to make this trade.
Apple was playing pretty well this year and whomever said he can't tackle is a moron. He tackles well and hits hard. His problem was attitude. Does he miss some tackles, occasionally, but for the most part what he hits goes down. And for all the gnashing of teeth on his holding, have you seen what CBs do to Beckham or any good WR. They all clutch and grab. On the route OBJ crossed up Eli, the CB grabbed OBJ off the line and had some jersey as Odell went past.
A 4th rounder isn't great, but it is realistic with a 7th the next year.
Glad he is gone and they got something for him. Let the reboot begin.
Read my above post, why does our team have such attitude problems? Why do we see it and want to make excuses for our clearly bad culture?
If you look around the room and see a bunch of pissants maybe it is you who is the pissant.
I would've liked to have gotten a three to replace the Sam Beal pick Â
Don't care that they traded him. It wouldn't surprise me if he turned his career around... remember how long it took Corey Webster to become an actual NFL caliber starter.
Who knew the scout quotes about his "lack of life skills" was a pretty accurate assessment of his maturity level?
He was playing well this year, and he had a solid rookie year. This is a disaster of a trade and a total joke. He was young and part of the solution, not the problem.
4th and 7th? essentially 5th given the saints draft position? Garbage return.
He was playing far better than whatever scrub we get at the back of the 4th. Great, we traded him for BJ Goodson
Not a bad return?? For a top 10 first rounder on his rookie deal? The return blows- a near 5th rounder and a 7th rounder next year??
Who gives a crap where he was drafted? Guess the Giants should have gotten a 1st for Flowers then, huh? Two draft picks for a quitter CB who holds every play and won't tackle is OK with me.
While I would have liked more I think they took what they could get. I think he was another 'attitude' that needed to be jettisoned....
Yes he is young and showed flashes, but he is still the same as he was when he was drafted. Too much clutching and grabbing and no ball awareness. The secondary is awful with or without him so why not get what we can for him and give someone like Antonio Hamilton a longer look at CB? He has flashed on Special Teams so would be nice to see if he has potential even as a nickel/dime CB at the NFL level.
Was worth much more than a 4th and 7th round picks those picks are long shots to be anything more than decent subs. Apple is a starting CB on most NFL teams with team control for two more years plus who will replace him? This new management become outrageously laughable each week as the season goes on will it ever end. Not sure who is next but let the games begin since all we were told to start the season has proven to be very untrustworthy. This team has proven the fact that you really are what your record says you are. It appears that in the end OBJ and Barkley may be the only ones left standing when the season finally ends.
Was worth much more than a 4th and 7th round picks those picks are long shots to be anything more than decent subs. Apple is a starting CB on most NFL teams with team control for two more years plus who will replace him? This new management become outrageously laughable each week as the season goes on will it ever end. Not sure who is next but let the games begin since all we were told to start the season has proven to be very untrustworthy. This team has proven the fact that you really are what your record says you are. It appears that in the end OBJ and Barkley may be the only ones left standing when the season finally ends.
I think one thing we all have learned on BBI--or should have learned--is that the rush to judgment is foolish. You can't form any definitive judgment on DG and PS after only 7 games.
That said, it is hard to disagree that DG's moves don't look good at the current time. In fact, it is hard to find a single move that one can definitely say is good.
getting a 4th and a 7th rounder for a player with immaturity issues who was basically outcast by his fellow DB's last year and would end up leaving after his contract for no return has to qualify as a decent, if not good move.
I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around how this is supposedly adding to Gettleman's resume of shitty moves, unless it is just a matter of people being so disappointed in the season that they are no longer objective.
that the board clamored for certain guys to get axed due to their bad attitudes, Apple being a primary example. So now we have Flowers released, Apple traded, JPP traded, Hart long gone, Lewis cut, DRC, Pugh and Richburg not resigned, and people still maintain there isn't a plan.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
that the board clamored for certain guys to get axed due to their bad attitudes, Apple being a primary example. So now we have Flowers released, Apple traded, JPP traded, Hart long gone, Lewis cut, DRC, Pugh and Richburg not resigned, and people still maintain there isn't a plan.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
FMiC the problem is we've sucked for several years so it feels like an eternity
people like Darian Thompson (3rd Rd.), and that tight end
Adams (another physical freak to Reese), gone before the
season started, believe he was a 6th rounder. That tackle from Pitt., Bisnovitsky? I think he was a 6th Rd. pick.
They got rid of the safety named Adams,
but he was an UDFA. They starting to clean out the draft picks from the Reese regime.
that the board clamored for certain guys to get axed due to their bad attitudes, Apple being a primary example. So now we have Flowers released, Apple traded, JPP traded, Hart long gone, Lewis cut, DRC, Pugh and Richburg not resigned, and people still maintain there isn't a plan.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
Dude, that was a lot of words that basically said nothing beyond the obvious. Take a fucking (Fatman language) position and set your board agenda and persona aside.
RE: The problem I have with this is all these players with Â
"attitude problems" when it seems like our GM might have an attitude problem.
OBJ, JPP, Jackrabbit, DRC, Apple, Flowers. Now Solder saying his unprepared, Omameh on the bench. You are basically saying most of our first round picks and a lot of our free agent dollars have attitude problems. Is that true or do we have a talent evaluation and management problem?
This is a shitty return for where he was drafted and the length left on his deal. It is one thing to trade a high priced guy like JPP, it's another to trade someone on a rookie deal. This move smacks of the kind of deal the Browns make a Barkevious Mingo type deal. Speaks to a rotting culture.
Clean house again. This time for real. Start at the top. I'm pretty sure i'm done going to games until this happens.
My issue with the “attitude” reason for the trade is that you have done the player a favor by trading him to a contender, how does that address attitude?
Last year when he was awful, he was a lowlight reel. You heard about him all the time. This year teams have gone after Jenkins.
Apple's been average and shown no ability to turn the ball over. But if we graded defensive backs only on INTs, then Stevie Brown would be in the ring of honor.
that the board clamored for certain guys to get axed due to their bad attitudes, Apple being a primary example. So now we have Flowers released, Apple traded, JPP traded, Hart long gone, Lewis cut, DRC, Pugh and Richburg not resigned, and people still maintain there isn't a plan.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
The problem isn't disposing of trash, it's what you decide to replace it with.
Anyone who came in would have to make some difficult decisions. What you'd hope is that whoever they brought on would be valuable replacements and part of a rebuild, and that they'd start to change the culture and performance of the team.
So far - save for the guy we drafted #2 overall - that doesn't really apply. And his attempt at FA looks like an abject failure early on.
RE: RE: The problem I have with this is all these players with Â
My issue with the “attitude” reason for the trade is that you have done the player a favor by trading him to a contender, how does that address attitude?
What does any of this have to do with football? Its pro sports, not boarding school. No front office in the NFL is in the business of 'addressing attitudes'.
Dude, that was a lot of words that basically said nothing beyond the obvious. Take a fucking (Fatman language) position and set your board agenda and persona aside.
My position has been clear.
People wanted problem players gone. People wanted bad attitudes gone. Now they are gone, yet we still suck (not surprisingly) and the tide turns to the GM being shitty for not getting a better return.
These are good long-term moves.
What the fuck does that have to do with a board persona or agenda?
Dude, that was a lot of words that basically said nothing beyond the obvious. Take a fucking (Fatman language) position and set your board agenda and persona aside.
My position has been clear.
People wanted problem players gone. People wanted bad attitudes gone. Now they are gone, yet we still suck (not surprisingly) and the tide turns to the GM being shitty for not getting a better return.
These are good long-term moves.
What the fuck does that have to do with a board persona or agenda?
You care way too much about other people's opinions. Weird dude.
Purging bad attitudes should be on (but not incredibly high) the list for the GM.
Retaining and acquiring talent the staff can work with should be tops. I am not going to posit an opinion on Shurmur and co.s' view of Apple. Maybe he's been a real prick. If this is an attitude driven move, sure thing.
It appears he had been playing better and there weren't any rumblings, but who knows.
If Gettleman feels this was an upside move, I think 2 back half of the draft picks for a starting corner isn't a good deal.
There's a balance between good guys that buy in, and talent. I don't doubt for a minute the crop of UFAs he brought in are good guys. But they've to a person sucked.
If I'm Shurmur I walk into the locker room and ask who wants to be here. Anybody wants to walk EF'em. Now we can rework a bunch of contracts and start cutting people. This happened once before. I remember when Brad Van Pelt was our best LB and he was mouthing off. Guess what. He was gone the next year. I don't care how good you think you are. If you don't want to be here and play hard all the time then there's the EFF'en door. Give me a bunch of players who want to be here as opposed to a bunch of over payed whiny bitches.
Re-work contracts for Eli, Vernon and Solder. If they don't want to move there asses for what you can get or cut them.
Giants a bad team for 5 years, finally begin the purging process so many have asked for, beginning with one of the biggest problems from last year s disaster. In the process they get addition by subtraction and another draft pick. They also have signaled to the league they are open for business.
I will say this. I didn’t like attitude, but the kid has talent. Watch him blossom under the Saints. I have a feeling the real issue is the Giants coaching staff in general. Look at how good Players seem to do after they leave.
My issue with the “attitude” reason for the trade is that you have done the player a favor by trading him to a contender, how does that address attitude?
It's not about the player, it's about the team. It's about removing his attitude from your locker room, not fixing it. Who caes if he still has a shitty attitude? It's the Saints problem now.
As for the return on investment, this is likely the most they could have gotten. People don't have realistic expectations when it comes to stuff like this, they expect their team to get huge returns.
4th and a 7th is a lot better than nothing, which is what they got in return for DRC, Pugh and Richburg.
I really don't know what to say about people who think this was a bad move.
I don't disagree with the move if the guy was a bad apple (ugh).
I think people knocking it figure the Giants had put up with him for this long, why not ride it out to see if he could rehabilitate his image here. Either that, or they figured he was traded less for off the field issues and more for his play.
If we're looking at it purely from his play on the field, he wasn't that bad. Certainly not worth his draft position, but worth his rookie contract salary and better than what we'll be running out there until we replace him next offseason.
4th and a 7th is a lot better than nothing, which is what they got in return for DRC, Pugh and Richburg.
I really don't know what to say about people who think this was a bad move.
Trading a starting CB with up to 2.5 years of control, with 1.5 years of that being incredibly cost controlled is very different than cutting a vet with a high salary or letting UFAs go.
Those are bad comparisons both in cost and scenario.
If Apple was heading to free agency or was aging out of his contract, then maybe.
If this was about dealing a player the coaching staff was unpleased with, that's completely understandable. But the value proposition argument is flimsy.
that the board clamored for certain guys to get axed due to their bad attitudes, Apple being a primary example. So now we have Flowers released, Apple traded, JPP traded, Hart long gone, Lewis cut, DRC, Pugh and Richburg not resigned, and people still maintain there isn't a plan.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
The funny thing is, you've been more steady in your opinion on the team than most here. People are having a hard time dealing with the fact we suck for another season and we just got rid of some young talent.
I think it is fair for both Gettleman and Shurmur to eat some criticism; rebuild or not, they have made some mistakes.
... that said, i think it is beyond stupid many here are calling for both to be fired.
Sell off Eli Manning and a bunch of the older vets if you want to but why an inexpensive, talented, young player? And yes Apple is talented. He was having a nice season and likely still has a future.
Thanks again, Reese!
Have to keep building around Eli and win now......
Good riddance!
And who will start at CB now? Not that it matters since the season is lost.
Have to keep building around Eli and win now......
Good one FMiC!
If you don't play well you are gone regardless of where you were drafted. Very Belichikian.
"Eli traded to the Saints"
That doesn't vest unless/until the Giants three Eli's in the first round between the years 2000-2020. Time is running out.
I'm confused
If you don't play well you are gone regardless of where you were drafted. Very Belichikian.
Seems to not be universally applied
How was he a bust
I'm thinking at least a third but holding out hope for a 2nd. He's still under team control for another year or two right? Also, Saints pick won't be high.
BW Webb as #2 corner.
Yikes.
Quote:
No wonder the team is in the sad state it is.
How was he a bust
Cause he sucked ass?
Or a 3rd for Bridgewater.
Quote:
No wonder the team is in the sad state it is.
How was he a bust
Seriously? The Giants used the 10th overall pick three drafts ago on a guy no longer on the team.
Haha. I miss #2. Apple was never afraid of contact though. Will Allen was allergic to it.
Quote:
The Saints don't have a first round pick in 2019 (Marcus Davenport trade)
Or a 3rd for Bridgewater.
And no way we get a second for Apple. Shit, I'd be happy with a young player.
Kyle I know you are an OSU guy, but come on, there was a lot more then "health" with him.
Quote:
In comment 14143533 moespree said:
Quote:
No wonder the team is in the sad state it is.
How was he a bust
Cause he sucked ass?
But he hasn't sucked this year. Jenkins been getting toasted all year, tbh
Quote:
look like Charles Woodson.
Haha. I miss #2. Apple was never afraid of contact though. Will Allen was allergic to it.
The problem with Eli and contact was that he was usually holding the WR so they didnt run away from him.
I agree with this. Better than Jenkins IMO
He wasn’t terrible. Might be an off the field thing.
But he hasn't sucked this year. Jenkins been getting toasted all year, tbh
He played like 3 games and was constantly burnt for big plays each game. Need a key 3rd down... look Apple's way/
I've never seen anything like it. Ever. We say "Oh X player quit out there" but it's mostly hyperbole.
Apple seriously quit playing on the field.
He's worth a #3 at worst.
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Gotta say I'm a bit surprised. His play was improved, though the bar was set low last season and he was a bit unreliable health wise.
Kyle I know you are an OSU guy, but come on, there was a lot more then "health" with him.
For sure, although there seemingly hadn't been issues of that sort this season. But maybe there was more to it behind the scenes.
They dont have a 3rd.
Those saying 2nd rounder are cracking me up. This isn't Madden set to easy mode where the cpu has to take your players.
My gut tells me it's a 6th or a 5th max.
:'(
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In comment 14143535 Kyle in NY said:
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Gotta say I'm a bit surprised. His play was improved, though the bar was set low last season and he was a bit unreliable health wise.
Kyle I know you are an OSU guy, but come on, there was a lot more then "health" with him.
For sure, although there seemingly hadn't been issues of that sort this season. But maybe there was more to it behind the scenes.
True, you didn't hear much from his Mom or family issues, so maybe he separated himself from that to focus on football. Who knows, let's just hope we get something valuable in return, otherwise, what a waste of a top 10 pick.
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No wonder the team is in the sad state it is.
How was he a bust
Even if he wasn't a bust as a player (which I think he is) he's a bust for the Giants because he was a top 10 pick and off the team in not even 3 full seasons. You can't keep missing on high picks like that (and Flowers) and expect consistent successful seasons to follow.
So for those people calling for blowing it up or tanking you should be happy, but assuming this trade is for a draft pick, in no way does it help the Giants on the field IMO.
And I'm fine with that, just to be clear though.
And Saints are going for it in Brees' career twilight. They already have no 1st or 3rd round pick next year (2 of the 3 picks I'd care about).
I don't think a pick in 2000 is valuable anymore. Even a z7.
damn it too late, lol
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.
I don't think a pick in 2000 is valuable anymore. Even a z7.
How about 2020?
My guess is this is a 4th round pick, possibly 5th.
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look like Charles Woodson.
Haha. I miss #2. Apple was never afraid of contact though. Will Allen was allergic to it.
Are you freaking kidding me? Apple was not afraid of contact? Ok, or is it effort. I don't know what's worse.
Apple and Flowers were certainly Reese's undoing. Up until that point, he had a good track record in the early rounds, but picking that high up twice and coming away empty is going to cost you your job.
More than I thought. A decent return.
About right. It's a necessary move for this team.
We used our 3 for Beal in the supplemental
We traded a 6 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th -
7th (Giants, Vikings)
Is that right?
Link - ( New Window )
another Reese casualty. shitty attitude that couldnt be tolerated because of his less than stellar play on the field. it was bound to happen at some point
A first round pick becomes a fourth round pick.
Another reminder of the 1970s.
BW Webb and/or Grant Haley. Giants eyeing the top pick.
Maybe a Landon Collins trade is next. May as well get something for him.
A first round pick becomes a fourth round pick.
Another reminder of the 1970s.
Attitude means everything...
We used our 3 for Beal in the supplemental
We traded a 6 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th -
7th (Giants, Vikings)
Is that right?
No. We traded a 7th for Dixon this year. We have our 6th next year.
Second, we as fans don't really know who is at fault a lot of times in the secondary. We tend to blame the guy closest to the ball, but sometimes they are just covering for someone else who blew it, or they left their man to help out (and then their man gets the pass). So unless we know the exact defensive scheme we really have no clue if Apple was playing better than before, or than Jenkins. All I know is Ryan completed 80% of his passes and like 18 in a row.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
We used our 3 for Beal in the supplemental
We traded a 6 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th -
7th (Giants, Vikings)
Is that right?
I believe it's:
1
2
4
4 - Apple trade
5
6
7 - Jones trade
7 - Ogletree trade
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Tremendous pressure put on Sam Beal for next year
BW Webb and/or Grant Haley. Giants eyeing the top pick.
Maybe a Landon Collins trade is next. May as well get something for him.
Yee-ikes
Hamilton or Webb in all likelihood. We'll see more of Haley and Jordan as well. As I said, I applaud this move, especially since the compensation we received was more than I expected for Apple. I also hope it's the first of other trades.
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in the upcoming draft?
We used our 3 for Beal in the supplemental
We traded a 6 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th -
7th (Giants, Vikings)
Is that right?
No. We traded a 7th for Dixon this year. We have our 6th next year.
We need more. Much much much more.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
We'll see.
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in the upcoming draft?
We used our 3 for Beal in the supplemental
We traded a 6 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th -
7th (Giants, Vikings)
Is that right?
No. We traded a 7th for Dixon this year. We have our 6th next year.
We also have a 7th from the Rams next year as part of the Ogletree trade.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Beginning? The purge began last winter. 33 new players out of 53. Now Flowers and Apple are gone, too.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
No, he wasn't.
We traded our 7 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
We got back a 7 in the Ogletree trade
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th (Giants)
7th (Rams, Vikings)
I'd love to give it to him. Give us two first round picks and call it a done deal.
If they went by his off the field demeanor and work ethic, then I'm fine with what they got back. Guys like that can't be fixed, they need to be moved.
...probably in the 130s.
Please let this trade open up the floodgates for several more Giants.
I'll gladly sell at discount price.
Agreed. But fans frequently overrate their own players.
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I bet OBJ would luuuuvvvv a trade to LA right about now
I'd love to give it to him. Give us two first round picks and call it a done deal.
Two late first round picks for OBJ and the cap hit that'll accompany moving him?
Gettleman, is that you?!
...and Eli Apple not only held Julio Jones, but buried both his hands in his uniform for all to see for the ENTIRE fucking route.
I've seen holds before in my day, but that was the mother of all holds.
Oh, well... one Eli down.
One to go.
Not bad??? Saints will pick in the bottom half of the draft that makes it closer to a 5th for a cb who is playing much better than that. And how many 7th rounders make an impact? we should have held out for a 3rd or kept him. He is under control for two years with the5th year option.
Collins and Shepard - what team do you plan on fielding?
Or are you just anxious to see what Gettleman could do with a bunch of 3rd and 4th round picks and more FA money? After the bang up job paying Solder and Omameh...
LOL, an oldie but a goodie
In comment 14143729 GiantsFan84 said:
If they went by his off the field demeanor and work ethic, then I'm fine with what they got back. Guys like that can't be fixed, they need to be moved.
All those things mean he's not getting a 2nd contract here. If that is the case, he's only cheap for 1 more year while his trade value craters (see Flowers). The season is lost and next year is probably another rebuild, get a couple of Day 3 picks and let some fringe guys like Haley get some burn. Maybe we get lucky with one of those guys in addition to the compensation.
We traded our 7 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
We got back a 7 in the Ogletree trade
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th (Giants)
7th (Rams, Vikings)
I thought we traded our 7th in 2018 for Dixon, but you're right, it was our 7th in the 2019 draft.
In comment 14143692 riceneggs said:
Quote:
But Saints got the better end of the trade here.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
Clearly you haven't seen Curtis Riley play safety.
HA! This made me laugh out loud.
Good point. What does that tell you about the talent level that the ex GM brought here.
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I bet OBJ would luuuuvvvv a trade to LA right about now
I'd love to give it to him. Give us two first round picks and call it a done deal.
Meh.
C'mon now.
but in fact many recent ex giants are having very good seasons on other teams
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In comment 14143666 KerrysFlask said:
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But Saints got the better end of the trade here.
Apple was a serviceable starting corner, a good tackler, and we are beyond thin at the position... Although I doubt we could have gotten much more for him. That's kind of the position the Giants are stuck in with this mess.
Although hopefully this is the beginning of the purge.
Apple was the worst tackler on the team. Haven’t you watched any games
Clearly you haven't seen Curtis Riley play safety.
The difference is that Riley tries to tackle. If he was smart like Apple he would just avoid the ball carrier altogether
C'mon now.
Saints didn't have much more to give. they had a 2nd.
Plus it clears almost $5M in cap space for 2019.
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I bet OBJ would luuuuvvvv a trade to LA right about now
I'd love to give it to him. Give us two first round picks and call it a done deal.
Said it last night in the game thread give me 22 OBJ's. I'd win a hell of a lot more football games than this steaming pile of shit of a roster has the past 2 years. I'll just get plenty of kicking nets and ear plugs. Say what you want but between the lines that guy is flat out a ball player.
C'mon now.
I would have taken Boars Head Tavern Ham in return.
but in fact many recent ex giants are having very good seasons on other teams
I'll give your Kennard. Who else?
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funny how every one is applauding all the "bad " picks leaving or getting traded away
but in fact many recent ex giants are having very good seasons on other teams
I'll give your Kennard. Who else?
JPP
JPP and Kennard aren't "many".
Hart looks terrible. Pugh is injured. Williams might not even be in the league anymore. Odi and Jerrell Adams aren't doing squat.
Who are these great ex-Giants?
Meh.
+1 Giants can’t even get a fire sale right!
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keep it going.
Not a bad return?? For a top 10 first rounder on his rookie deal? The return blows- a near 5th rounder and a 7th rounder next year??
Who gives a crap where he was drafted? Guess the Giants should have gotten a 1st for Flowers then, huh? Two draft picks for a quitter CB who holds every play and won't tackle is OK with me.
I don't think Reese will ever have a prominent position again in the league. Maybe a scouting role, but not a decision maker role.
4 firsts left since 2010.
3 if we count only Reese
Romeo Okwara (4 sacks this season already)
seriously - you know things are biased when people are even saying this deal is bad.
2018 Dead Cap: $2,304,967
2019 Dead Cap: $2,304,968
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-apple-18958/
Step 1 is acquiring draft picks in quantity.
Step 2 is scouting to maximize what we get out of that quantity of draft picks.
Step 3 is actually relying on the draft picks to play. For example, we are better served by going with Lauletta than we are using another resource at QB.
seriously - you know things are biased when people are even saying this deal is bad.
QB LT CB and we need all three...
Last night. I’m not one to get too hung up on that kind of stuff but with Apple it’s probably something to note.
Bye bye. Stellar pick.
"Eli traded to the Saints"
And even better if.. "for Brees"
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
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This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
It's not so simple to trade guys on sizable contracts in season. If I understand it correctly, the remaining cap hit accelerates and we do not have much cap space right now to absorb that. So Vernon, Jenkins, etc may have to wait until the offseason. Rookie contracts like this one are much easier to move
Hearing the Eli Apple trade may just be tip of the iceberg. Strong perception among other teams thag the Giants are "open for business' ahead of next week's trade deadline
...and a 5th for Jack Rabbit.
I'll even consider the 6th Round.
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In comment 14143834 Simms11 said:
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This is now a rebuild much like Oakland IMO. The purge began with Flowers and isn't over yet. We have to get some more draft capital. Would be nice to recoup a 3rd at some point or even get another 2nd. This team is going nowhere this year and we need to draft well to turn it around. It will take another few years, given the right QB and Oline, of course.
Would Vernon net a 2nd? He’s 28 and good pass rushers are coveted. I’d imagine his injury history diminishes returns
It's not so simple to trade guys on sizable contracts in season. If I understand it correctly, the remaining cap hit accelerates and we do not have much cap space right now to absorb that. So Vernon, Jenkins, etc may have to wait until the offseason. Rookie contracts like this one are much easier to move
Correct, my point was he’s probably the only player we’d reasonably get more than a 3 or 4 for.
Quote:
In comment 14143692 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Said it last night in the game thread give me 22 OBJ's. I'd win a hell of a lot more football games than this steaming pile of shit of a roster has the past 2 years. I'll just get plenty of kicking nets and ear plugs. Say what you want but between the lines that guy is flat out a ball player.
Kicking net says "hold mah beer"
But still good to see continued changes, Reese would have rolled up into the fetal position and started Flowers at LT with no competition.
Quote:
?
4 firsts left since 2010.
3 if we count only Reese
Two First round picks still on team last ten years. Not counting SB.
You don’t have to move him now, you can move him after the new league year or at the draft.
Wow didn’t take you long. Unreal.
We traded our 7 for Riley Dixon
We got back a 7 for Brett Jones
We got back a 4 for Apple
We got back a 7 in the Ogletree trade
1st (Giants)
2nd (Giants)
3rd -
4th (Giants, Saints)
5th (Giants)
6th (Giants)
7th (Rams, Vikings)
According to the prosportstransactions site that keeps track of these things, it's never been confirmed whether the 7th we traded to the Broncos was ours or the Rams.
OBJ, JPP, Jackrabbit, DRC, Apple, Flowers. Now Solder saying his unprepared, Omameh on the bench. You are basically saying most of our first round picks and a lot of our free agent dollars have attitude problems. Is that true or do we have a talent evaluation and management problem?
This is a shitty return for where he was drafted and the length left on his deal. It is one thing to trade a high priced guy like JPP, it's another to trade someone on a rookie deal. This move smacks of the kind of deal the Browns make a Barkevious Mingo type deal. Speaks to a rotting culture.
Clean house again. This time for real. Start at the top. I'm pretty sure i'm done going to games until this happens.
A 4th rounder isn't great, but it is realistic with a 7th the next year.
Glad he is gone and they got something for him. Let the reboot begin.
2. He never had a feel for the game. No ball awareness.
3. He was definitely a good tackler and provided decent run support.
4. He did not have the heart for this game on the professional level. His mind is elsewhere.
When I played, this was not a guy I wanted on my defense. I think some of the other guys we picked up played well enough to make this trade.
A 4th rounder isn't great, but it is realistic with a 7th the next year.
Glad he is gone and they got something for him. Let the reboot begin.
Read my above post, why does our team have such attitude problems? Why do we see it and want to make excuses for our clearly bad culture?
If you look around the room and see a bunch of pissants maybe it is you who is the pissant.
Don't care that they traded him. It wouldn't surprise me if he turned his career around... remember how long it took Corey Webster to become an actual NFL caliber starter.
Who knew the scout quotes about his "lack of life skills" was a pretty accurate assessment of his maturity level?
4th and 7th? essentially 5th given the saints draft position? Garbage return.
He was playing far better than whatever scrub we get at the back of the 4th. Great, we traded him for BJ Goodson
Quote:
In comment 14143657 Harvest Blend said:
Quote:
keep it going.
Not a bad return?? For a top 10 first rounder on his rookie deal? The return blows- a near 5th rounder and a 7th rounder next year??
Who gives a crap where he was drafted? Guess the Giants should have gotten a 1st for Flowers then, huh? Two draft picks for a quitter CB who holds every play and won't tackle is OK with me.
While I would have liked more I think they took what they could get. I think he was another 'attitude' that needed to be jettisoned....
Who knew the scout quotes about his "lack of life skills" was a pretty accurate assessment of his maturity level?
Yeah, we sure do eat a lot of crow when it comes to mocking those who say negative things about the Giants around these parts, don't we?
Last year, he quit. I would have cut him.
If he had a better attitude this year, I wouldn't have given up this player for the 4. CBs are tough to find. He's very young too.
But we really suck so I don't care. Lets get the top pick and start over.
Last year, he quit. I would have cut him.
With that in mind, at least we got a couple of picks for him.
C'mon now.
Bingo. Complaining about wasting a 1st round pick is fine, but that’s in the past. This is a lot more than we got for that slug Flowers
A better deal would have been if DG could have added some other underachievers into the mix...
But he seems like a good culture player
So far he hasn’t done much ......
The Rapist
Romeo Okwara (4 sacks this season already)
Jones is a reserve. Richburg is playing but not well. Pugh, as noted, is injured again.
Quote:
Q. Who was the only loser QB to ever get picked off by Eli Apple?
The Rapist
yep...
Maybe the Saints? After all, they want him...and IMO, gave up something significant.
So what gives? Did the entire Saints' secondary get injured, or do they see something?
I'm not saying the trade was bad, in fact, it was a good trade.
Strange. No one has a good thing to say about Apple, but there he goes to a contender - where the weak link is probably the defense.
I think one thing we all have learned on BBI--or should have learned--is that the rush to judgment is foolish. You can't form any definitive judgment on DG and PS after only 7 games.
That said, it is hard to disagree that DG's moves don't look good at the current time. In fact, it is hard to find a single move that one can definitely say is good.
I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around how this is supposedly adding to Gettleman's resume of shitty moves, unless it is just a matter of people being so disappointed in the season that they are no longer objective.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
The 3 that really stood out to me were Apple (was pissed they didn't draft Tunsil), Flowers (wanted Gurley), and Justin Pugh (wanted Eifert).
this was called years ago.. purge.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
FMiC the problem is we've sucked for several years so it feels like an eternity
Adams (another physical freak to Reese), gone before the
season started, believe he was a 6th rounder. That tackle from Pitt., Bisnovitsky? I think he was a 6th Rd. pick.
They got rid of the safety named Adams,
but he was an UDFA. They starting to clean out the draft picks from the Reese regime.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
Dude, that was a lot of words that basically said nothing beyond the obvious. Take a fucking (Fatman language) position and set your board agenda and persona aside.
OBJ, JPP, Jackrabbit, DRC, Apple, Flowers. Now Solder saying his unprepared, Omameh on the bench. You are basically saying most of our first round picks and a lot of our free agent dollars have attitude problems. Is that true or do we have a talent evaluation and management problem?
This is a shitty return for where he was drafted and the length left on his deal. It is one thing to trade a high priced guy like JPP, it's another to trade someone on a rookie deal. This move smacks of the kind of deal the Browns make a Barkevious Mingo type deal. Speaks to a rotting culture.
Clean house again. This time for real. Start at the top. I'm pretty sure i'm done going to games until this happens.
My issue with the “attitude” reason for the trade is that you have done the player a favor by trading him to a contender, how does that address attitude?
More like he looked like he was grinning about it.
Last year when he was awful, he was a lowlight reel. You heard about him all the time. This year teams have gone after Jenkins.
Apple's been average and shown no ability to turn the ball over. But if we graded defensive backs only on INTs, then Stevie Brown would be in the ring of honor.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
The problem isn't disposing of trash, it's what you decide to replace it with.
Anyone who came in would have to make some difficult decisions. What you'd hope is that whoever they brought on would be valuable replacements and part of a rebuild, and that they'd start to change the culture and performance of the team.
So far - save for the guy we drafted #2 overall - that doesn't really apply. And his attempt at FA looks like an abject failure early on.
My issue with the “attitude” reason for the trade is that you have done the player a favor by trading him to a contender, how does that address attitude?
What does any of this have to do with football? Its pro sports, not boarding school. No front office in the NFL is in the business of 'addressing attitudes'.
yes, a reaction that reflects on his job! Real life shit in progress.
My position has been clear.
People wanted problem players gone. People wanted bad attitudes gone. Now they are gone, yet we still suck (not surprisingly) and the tide turns to the GM being shitty for not getting a better return.
These are good long-term moves.
What the fuck does that have to do with a board persona or agenda?
Quote:
Dude, that was a lot of words that basically said nothing beyond the obvious. Take a fucking (Fatman language) position and set your board agenda and persona aside.
My position has been clear.
People wanted problem players gone. People wanted bad attitudes gone. Now they are gone, yet we still suck (not surprisingly) and the tide turns to the GM being shitty for not getting a better return.
These are good long-term moves.
What the fuck does that have to do with a board persona or agenda?
You care way too much about other people's opinions. Weird dude.
Retaining and acquiring talent the staff can work with should be tops. I am not going to posit an opinion on Shurmur and co.s' view of Apple. Maybe he's been a real prick. If this is an attitude driven move, sure thing.
It appears he had been playing better and there weren't any rumblings, but who knows.
If Gettleman feels this was an upside move, I think 2 back half of the draft picks for a starting corner isn't a good deal.
There's a balance between good guys that buy in, and talent. I don't doubt for a minute the crop of UFAs he brought in are good guys. But they've to a person sucked.
Re-work contracts for Eli, Vernon and Solder. If they don't want to move there asses for what you can get or cut them.
Giants a bad team for 5 years, finally begin the purging process so many have asked for, beginning with one of the biggest problems from last year s disaster. In the process they get addition by subtraction and another draft pick. They also have signaled to the league they are open for business.
It's not about the player, it's about the team. It's about removing his attitude from your locker room, not fixing it. Who caes if he still has a shitty attitude? It's the Saints problem now.
As for the return on investment, this is likely the most they could have gotten. People don't have realistic expectations when it comes to stuff like this, they expect their team to get huge returns.
I really don't know what to say about people who think this was a bad move.
I really don't know what to say about people who think this was a bad move.
I don't disagree with the move if the guy was a bad apple (ugh).
I think people knocking it figure the Giants had put up with him for this long, why not ride it out to see if he could rehabilitate his image here. Either that, or they figured he was traded less for off the field issues and more for his play.
If we're looking at it purely from his play on the field, he wasn't that bad. Certainly not worth his draft position, but worth his rookie contract salary and better than what we'll be running out there until we replace him next offseason.
I really don't know what to say about people who think this was a bad move.
Trading a starting CB with up to 2.5 years of control, with 1.5 years of that being incredibly cost controlled is very different than cutting a vet with a high salary or letting UFAs go.
Those are bad comparisons both in cost and scenario.
If Apple was heading to free agency or was aging out of his contract, then maybe.
If this was about dealing a player the coaching staff was unpleased with, that's completely understandable. But the value proposition argument is flimsy.
It's pretty damn evident that the new GM doesn't hold the previous GM's player evaluation in very good esteem. And when you throw out as much trash as he has, you certainly see the product suffer in the short term.
But we shouldn't confuse the short term as meaning we are going to suck for several years.
The funny thing is, you've been more steady in your opinion on the team than most here. People are having a hard time dealing with the fact we suck for another season and we just got rid of some young talent.
I think it is fair for both Gettleman and Shurmur to eat some criticism; rebuild or not, they have made some mistakes.
... that said, i think it is beyond stupid many here are calling for both to be fired.