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| Jason La Canfora & #8207; Verified account @JasonLaCanfora 7m7 minutes ago More Hearing the Eli Apple trade may just be tip of the iceberg. Strong perception among other teams thag the Giants are "open for business' ahead of next week's trade deadline. |
Yup lol
Gettleman knows he can't with this team. He knows in Eli's contract now it's unlikely they will be competitive.
Now is the chance to sit down with Eli Manning and tell him after the bye Lauletta is playing and let Eli consider waiving his no trade clause.
stockpile picks
build around
obj
barkley
engram
shepard
collins
jenkins
hill
hernandez
harrison
ogletree
Saquon and Hernandez (and I guess BJ Hill and Lorenzo Carter) are here to stay, but everyone else? Pack your shit!
Odell, but not sure if that fits your "reasonably trade" criteria. Shep could fetch a second. Landon and Snacks I think would be seconds, OV a third maybe. Not sure who else on this team anyone would want that we would trade (e.g., we would not trade Barkley or Hernandez).
The only high priced contract I can see another team taking on is Manning and that's only because as a QB it's actually average at this point or even below average. And of course, only if Manning waives the no trade clause.
the young core is
engram
shep
obj
barkley
collins
hill
carter
hernandez
doooo it
doooo it
Nah he'd get more injured here
If Amari Cooper is fetching a first (and he's not exactly cheap next year), then maybe:
Collins
Vernon
Longer shots:
Snacks
Jenkins
Hard pressed to think of anyone else we would realistically trade that other teams would even want:
Ogletree
Ellison
Don't think these guys will be moved:
Beckham/Solder - can't even if they wanted to for cap reasons
Shepard
Engram
Hernandez
Barkley
Hill
Carter
Tomlinson
Eli
Rosas
The rest of the team is basically replacement level players.
Quote:
who would garner a 1st rd pick?
Odell, but not sure if that fits your "reasonably trade" criteria. Shep could fetch a second. Landon and Snacks I think would be seconds, OV a third maybe. Not sure who else on this team anyone would want that we would trade (e.g., we would not trade Barkley or Hernandez).
I think Vernon could/would get a 1st. Pass rushers come with a premium and he's still relatively young.
if you find a team, ill help pack the bags
2019 and 2020 1st rd picks and
Brandon Scherff
I kid I kid...
or do I
Quote:
.
if you find a team, ill help pack the bags
https://www.stampeders.com/
vernon to the chiefs for their 2 and 5 sounds sexy lol
stockpile picks
build around
obj
barkley
engram
shepard
collins
jenkins
hill
hernandez
harrison
ogletree
I have great hope for him next year too.
Barkley and OBJ. That is probably it.
Like you said, Beckham/Solder aren't even worth discussing because the cap ramifications make it impossible.
If someone offered a 1st for Shepard, I'd think long and hard about it. Especially if it was a bubble team like the 'Boys. I like Shepard and he can be part of a winning team, but I think his ceiling is somewhat limited.
Yup, but they realistically can't trade OBJ or Solder.
LaCanfora is frequently wrong, but the speed with which Apple was traded after last night's game suggests that he may well be right. I certainly hope so. Get draft picks.
and at this point Solder as well. Solder has been awful, that 'Booger' was funny last night...."If that's what
15 million buys you, I don't want it..."
In comment 14143991 Rong5611 said:
LOL
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
This.
They can stockpile 3rd/4th rounders for Jenkins, Vernon, among many others.
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
I don't think that'd be idiotic at all. He's up for a new contract after the season, need to factor that in when assessing value. I'm a big fan of Collins, I think he's been one of the few true professionals on that defense these last two seasons. But a third rounder seems pretty fair to me considering his contract status and somewhat limited impact lately.
CB Jenkins
S Collins
WR Shepard (although I think this regime loves him)
I don't see anyone taking on Vernon's deal.
Who'd trade for them?
Let's get another or 2 done and then start celebrating.
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
JJ can still play a Premium position for a contender .
Quote:
In comment 14143948 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
im not saying we get a first for collins, but your argument of he was a seconder rounder you wont get a first is dumb....would tom brady be had for a 7th rounder since thats when he was picked? if so gettleman is sleeping
MIA
CIN
KC
GB
Of those teams, KC and CIN can afford it the most.
FA in 2020.
MIA
CIN
KC
GB
Of those teams, KC and CIN can afford it the most.
Snacks is so valuable to teams like that. Would love to see a 2nd and 3rd (next year)
CB Jenkins
S Collins
WR Shepard (although I think this regime loves him)
I don't see anyone taking on Vernon's deal.
Vernon's deal is a lot better without the SB money. Any team getting him would be on the hook for:
2018: ~$7M
2019: $15.5M
2020: $15.5M
Total: ~$37M
With no gtd money and he's still only 28.
JPP was traded for a 3rd with 3 yrs/~$35M left on his deal. I could see a playoff team desperate for some pass rush help give a 2nd for Vernon.
MIA
CIN
KC
GB
Of those teams, KC and CIN can afford it the most.
He makes a lot of sense on KC.
No. He's signed thru the 2019 season.
Quote:
DT Harrison
CB Jenkins
S Collins
WR Shepard (although I think this regime loves him)
I don't see anyone taking on Vernon's deal.
Vernon's deal is a lot better without the SB money. Any team getting him would be on the hook for:
2018: ~$7M
2019: $15.5M
2020: $15.5M
Total: ~$37M
With no gtd money and he's still only 28.
JPP was traded for a 3rd with 3 yrs/~$35M left on his deal. I could see a playoff team desperate for some pass rush help give a 2nd for Vernon.
That is not bad and he can be let go by the team that gets him without expense.
CB Jenkins
S Collins
WR Shepard (although I think this regime loves him)
I don't see anyone taking on Vernon's deal.
Agreed.
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In comment 14144004 jcn56 said:
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In comment 14143948 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
im not saying we get a first for collins, but your argument of he was a seconder rounder you wont get a first is dumb....would tom brady be had for a 7th rounder since thats when he was picked? if so gettleman is sleeping
Great analogy, pick the GOAT to make your arugument.
He's not worth a first, in your mind, a 3rd is idiotic,
what should they get then? Even Le'veon Bell wouldn't
bring a first round pick my friend.
It's not that bad is it, LOL. I don't let this team raise
my blood pressure anymore. I just watch and make observations. That's why I started a thread the other day,
who wins more games...Browns or Giants, their neighborhood.
Keep Engram, Barkley, and Beckham.
Shepard is cheap for another year. He's a starter quality WR. He has value right now to many teams. Id rather keep him and see what he can do with a working offense but they may be able to make a nice deal for him.
Vernon has a lot of value. He may be able to get a high 2nd. If not, keep him.
OBJ
Vernon
Engram
Shepard
Hill
Collins
Hernandez
and maybe Carter.
Tomlinson is iffy for me. Now if you get an offer you cant refuse for the above - then its a no brainer.
Snacks and jenkins would be the two for me to trade.
We're not going to trade in the division, so we would need to look at teams who are in the playoff hunt or right on the edges.
Around the league...
New England could use a pass rush upgrade, and Belichick obviously knows Vernon from his Miami days. Maybe that's an interesting play. I just don't know if they could free up the cap space. And you know Belichick will be looking for help right up to Oct 30th.
Pittsburgh seems set. But they could use some secondary help. Maybe a spot for Collins. Not really the Steelers style in this free agency window however...
Miami? They could use a run stuffer at DT. They are horrible against the run.
Ravens? Excellent D and the offense seems set. They will go as far as the over-rated Flacco takes them.
Titans? Excellent D. Need to upgrade on the offense. But that is likely more of a function of Marriota. Same with the Jags and Bortles.
Chiefs? Secondary and LB help. But mostly secondary issues.
Chargers are locked and loaded. They are a real threat.
Packers could most definitely use a Dline help. Really need another play maker or two...
Panthers? Seems set on D, but maybe a Collins would help...?
Atlanta could definitely use all kinds of help on defense - granted, they have injury issues...
Seattle is interesting. That no name D is playing very well with the switch to a ball controlled, time consuming offensive approach under Schottenheimer. Could obviously use more offensive weapons. But we fall short there unless Shepherd is available...
So there is definitely a market out there. And we may have some of the right assets to offer...
Hill and Carter are building blocks on defense. So that’s four total. Shep, Engram, Tomlinson are probably keepers. I would let Collins go.
Projected compensation picks - ( New Window )
Keep Engram, Barkley, and Beckham.
Shepard is cheap for another year. He's a starter quality WR. He has value right now to many teams. Id rather keep him and see what he can do with a working offense but they may be able to make a nice deal for him.
Vernon has a lot of value. He may be able to get a high 2nd. If not, keep him.
I've always thought Shepard is the guy that NE would go nuts with. Not sure there is room for him with Edelman but Shepard has 5x the talent, is just as tough, and knows how to read the defense underneath. A cheap 2 year rental to them may be very enticing.
This made me laugh.
Holy crap. This made me laugh, too.
Just much much fewer trades in the NFL,
just because somebody says 'open for business',
doesn't mean there will be a lot
of movement here. They can try...
I don't think it would make sense to deal Shepard to the Patriots, unless they'd offer a 1st-rounder, which I can't imagine they'd do.
Even a 2nd-rounder would be a low 2nd-rounder coming from the Patriots. And that would be a bad flip for the 2016 #40 overall pick. Shepard is a cheap, young, talented, character player for the Giants already.
The plan up to the deadline should be getting the best return possible on as many players as are deemed not part of the future for reasons like old age, bad contract, bad character, etc.
You can't (or at least shouldn't) trade everybody.
Quote:
I've always thought Shepard is the guy that NE would go nuts with. Not sure there is room for him with Edelman but Shepard has 5x the talent, is just as tough, and knows how to read the defense underneath. A cheap 2 year rental to them may be very enticing.
I don't think it would make sense to deal Shepard to the Patriots, unless they'd offer a 1st-rounder, which I can't imagine they'd do.
Even a 2nd-rounder would be a low 2nd-rounder coming from the Patriots. And that would be a bad flip for the 2016 #40 overall pick. Shepard is a cheap, young, talented, character player for the Giants already.
The plan up to the deadline should be getting the best return possible on as many players as are deemed not part of the future for reasons like old age, bad contract, bad character, etc.
It's more about this guy leaving after next season un UFA and at that point getting nothing back.
Quote:
In comment 14144061 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14144004 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143948 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
im not saying we get a first for collins, but your argument of he was a seconder rounder you wont get a first is dumb....would tom brady be had for a 7th rounder since thats when he was picked? if so gettleman is sleeping
.
Great analogy, pick the GOAT to make your arugument.
He's not worth a first, in your mind, a 3rd is idiotic,
what should they get then? Even Le'veon Bell wouldn't
bring a first round pick my friend.
Reading comp isn't your strong suit huh.
I said I'm not saying we get a first but the whole he was a second rounder we can't get a first is dumb. You're basically saying we can't get a high draft pick than round player was selected in....
Lol that's an amazing meme.
Quote:
He was very good as a rookie. Versatile. A lot of upside. Dumping this young player before the midway point of year 2 would be stupid especially when you factor in his price the next few years.
Keep Engram, Barkley, and Beckham.
Shepard is cheap for another year. He's a starter quality WR. He has value right now to many teams. Id rather keep him and see what he can do with a working offense but they may be able to make a nice deal for him.
Vernon has a lot of value. He may be able to get a high 2nd. If not, keep him.
I've always thought Shepard is the guy that NE would go nuts with. Not sure there is room for him with Edelman but Shepard has 5x the talent, is just as tough, and knows how to read the defense underneath. A cheap 2 year rental to them may be very enticing.
So far Sy Engram has done nothing might he be moved ? It’s possible
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In comment 14144164 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I've always thought Shepard is the guy that NE would go nuts with. Not sure there is room for him with Edelman but Shepard has 5x the talent, is just as tough, and knows how to read the defense underneath. A cheap 2 year rental to them may be very enticing.
I don't think it would make sense to deal Shepard to the Patriots, unless they'd offer a 1st-rounder, which I can't imagine they'd do.
Even a 2nd-rounder would be a low 2nd-rounder coming from the Patriots. And that would be a bad flip for the 2016 #40 overall pick. Shepard is a cheap, young, talented, character player for the Giants already.
The plan up to the deadline should be getting the best return possible on as many players as are deemed not part of the future for reasons like old age, bad contract, bad character, etc.
It's more about this guy leaving after next season un UFA and at that point getting nothing back.
and would hate to see him go to Dallas where his Dad played too!!! A team that desperately needs WRs.
I love Shepard. He is the kind of guy you love to root for. Great player. Great person. But if they aren't going to re-sign him (I don't know if they are or not) then he is on the block. The whole point is to stockpile picks by getting whatever you can before the players you don't want hit the market and leave for nothing.
If the best you can get for Shepard is a 3rd, then do it.
If you get a 2 or a 3 for him, you absolutely take it.
GETTLEMAN: Idk...
SHURMUR: If you want to win, we have to move on. Eli can’t cut it anymore.
GETTLEMAN: Your’re right. I’ll make the move.
....
GETTLEMAN: The deed is done.
SHURMUR: NOT THAT ELI, YOU IDIOT
JJ can still play a Premium position for a contender .
Who’s going to give you a 2 for Engram.
Quote:
In comment 14144075 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14144061 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14144004 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143948 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
im not saying we get a first for collins, but your argument of he was a seconder rounder you wont get a first is dumb....would tom brady be had for a 7th rounder since thats when he was picked? if so gettleman is sleeping
.
Great analogy, pick the GOAT to make your arugument.
He's not worth a first, in your mind, a 3rd is idiotic,
what should they get then? Even Le'veon Bell wouldn't
bring a first round pick my friend.
Reading comp isn't your strong suit huh.
I said I'm not saying we get a first but the whole he was a second rounder we can't get a first is dumb. You're basically saying we can't get a high draft pick than round player was selected in....
Actually reading comp. is a strong suit of mine.
but common sense and logic are not one of yours.
"I am not saying he is worth a first, but a 3rd is idiotic" okay now. I am saying he is a second round pick,
and teams are not going to put a first round grade on him cuz of his obvious flaws in pass defense as summed up quite well last evening, and stated above by me.
I also said I wouldn't overpay to try and keep him,
did you read that as well?
I'm done here...
2019 and 2020 1st rd picks and
Brandon Scherff
I kid I kid...
or do I
Yes, you are joking. First of all, the dead cap for Odell would be astronomical if we trade him. It is not cap friendly to trade him. 2nd of all, Colt McCoy???? I want no part of him.
GETTLEMAN: Idk...
SHURMUR: If you want to win, we have to move on. Eli can’t cut it anymore.
GETTLEMAN: Your’re right. I’ll make the move.
....
GETTLEMAN: The deed is done.
SHURMUR: NOT THAT ELI, YOU IDIOT
This actually made me chuckle.
Quote:
Colt McCoy
2019 and 2020 1st rd picks and
Brandon Scherff
I kid I kid...
or do I
Yes, you are joking. First of all, the dead cap for Odell would be astronomical if we trade him. It is not cap friendly to trade him. 2nd of all, Colt McCoy???? I want no part of him.
According to Skins fans Colt is the second coming ....lol
Quote:
In comment 14144164 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I've always thought Shepard is the guy that NE would go nuts with. Not sure there is room for him with Edelman but Shepard has 5x the talent, is just as tough, and knows how to read the defense underneath. A cheap 2 year rental to them may be very enticing.
I don't think it would make sense to deal Shepard to the Patriots, unless they'd offer a 1st-rounder, which I can't imagine they'd do.
Even a 2nd-rounder would be a low 2nd-rounder coming from the Patriots. And that would be a bad flip for the 2016 #40 overall pick. Shepard is a cheap, young, talented, character player for the Giants already.
The plan up to the deadline should be getting the best return possible on as many players as are deemed not part of the future for reasons like old age, bad contract, bad character, etc.
It's more about this guy leaving after next season un UFA and at that point getting nothing back.
Shephard is tough as Edelman? I don't think so, what have
some folks been watching.
My thoughts exactly
Then you all will cry next season about how we traded away all our talent and how much we suck.
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In comment 14144111 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14144075 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14144061 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14144004 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14143948 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and Shepard/Beckham are really the only pieces I wouldn't consider moving. Not looking to get into a trade Beckham debate, I just still think he can be a part of the solution here. Probably unmovable anyway with the contract. Same goes for Solder and his deal.
Agreed. You can't trade 'em all, you still need to field a team, and the younger, productive talent is still cheap and can be part of the rebuild.
I'd hate to see Collins go, but if they do, they had better get fair value on him. A 3rd rounder would just be idiotic.
.
I would keep Collins, but wouldn't overpay to do so.
As was mentioned last night, between 0-10 yards he's good, on the back end on pass D, he is not.
That was a fair assessment of his play, you need to draft a legit FS with him I think, not a JAG like Curtis Riley. You heard Riley's name when he saved a first down on a tackle, with 2:00 left in the game. He just doesn't
do much out there. If they traded Collins, he was a
2nd round pick, you won't get a first round pick
in return.
im not saying we get a first for collins, but your argument of he was a seconder rounder you wont get a first is dumb....would tom brady be had for a 7th rounder since thats when he was picked? if so gettleman is sleeping
.
Great analogy, pick the GOAT to make your arugument.
He's not worth a first, in your mind, a 3rd is idiotic,
what should they get then? Even Le'veon Bell wouldn't
bring a first round pick my friend.
Reading comp isn't your strong suit huh.
I said I'm not saying we get a first but the whole he was a second rounder we can't get a first is dumb. You're basically saying we can't get a high draft pick than round player was selected in....
.
Actually reading comp. is a strong suit of mine.
but common sense and logic are not one of yours.
"I am not saying he is worth a first, but a 3rd is idiotic" okay now. I am saying he is a second round pick,
and teams are not going to put a first round grade on him cuz of his obvious flaws in pass defense as summed up quite well last evening, and stated above by me.
I also said I wouldn't overpay to try and keep him,
did you read that as well?
I'm done here...
reading comp is your strong suit but you cant even read who posted getting a 3 is idiotic? lol yea im done here...
We are cleaning the Augean stables of Jerry Reese. The GM know for DE's, playmakers, primadonnas, backflippers, fire crack specialists, basketball player converters. Everything except for basic football basics, running, tackling, blocking, and tackling. That is where we are. Now we have a relic attempting to fill in the hole using your grand dads ideas.
Raiders trade Mack and a large contingent of posters rail against what a stupid move it was.
Ironically, several of those same posters are the ones saying the Giants made a monumental mistake not trading Beckham.
And you can't tell me it is because one team is down in the dumps and the other one isn't.
I wonder why there's a difference?? Hmm......
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
i literally just said this to a buddy.
raiders view as salary dump, jags choose the vet with playoff experience, giants get a younger QB who can move a little more.
im def warming up to a move for carr though.
here is a pretty cool scenario
we get #1 overall, what is the cost for raiders to move up to 1 from lets say 15.
id say
carr
#15 or whatever first from cowboys is
#22 or whatyever the first from bears is
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
What a mistake that would be.
We shouldn't be trading picks to take on salary. We should be accumulating two things: cap space and draft picks.
Better to have an impact LBer who can single-handledly wreck an offensive game plan, than a WR who relies on the rest of the offense (OL, QB) to truly be effective...
You can't (or at least shouldn't) trade everybody.
+1 one of my favorites
Giants are going have to bite the bullet for their own ineptness.
That's why this situation is far from ever being a quick turnaround ..period
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
Yuck. I like the idea of the Jags trading for Carr and leaving the Giants out of it.
Giants are going have to bite the bullet for their own ineptness.
That's why this situation is far from ever being a quick turnaround ..period
Snacks’ pro-rated cap # for this year is 4.8 million after next week and has about $18 million total for 2019 and 2020. KC, NE and Pittsburgh have enough cap room to make it work. We are probably stuck with Vernon due to his cap number being $8.5 million for the rest of the year
He can get a 1 and 4 IMO if we start a bidding war with the AFC contenders
I think everyone is doing poorly this year however defense is on the field too much. Offense has to give them a rest.
No he isn’t. He’s being exposed like any good corner due to no passrush. The big pass last night being the exception that was a shitty play.
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
Dude, no. No!!
I still think we do
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Jenkins is AWFUL this year.
No he isn’t. He’s being exposed like any good corner due to no passrush. The big pass last night being the exception that was a shitty play.
I will say this, watch Jenkins more and more each week. I have seen him (last night in person) start to take a little more O Lay in his tackling attempts. He is clearly making business decisions already after 7 games. We are going nowhere, trading him would be fine with me if anyone would take him and his salary.
He's Sam Bradford-like in that regard.
I guess contnuity only applies to management.
He's Sam Bradford-like in that regard.
He threw for 3,200 yards his rookie year with 21 touchdowns and 12 picks.
The next two years, he had 3,900 passing yards with
31 TDs - 13 picks
28 TD - 6 picks
He looks like shit right now, but that does not mean he didn't look very promising before the leg injury.
It seems that it isn't as prohibitive cap wise as I assumed. As it is after June 1, the signing bonus seems to remain pro-ratad over the contract and other guaranteed money is assumed by the receiving team.
I guess trading Beckham is something that we could do if we wanted from a cap perspective. Of coursr the real question is would we want to.
It seems that it isn't as prohibitive cap wise as I assumed. As it is after June 1, the signing bonus seems to remain pro-ratad over the contract and other guaranteed money is assumed by the receiving team.
I guess trading Beckham is something that we could do if we wanted from a cap perspective. Of course the real question is would we want to.
It seems that it isn't as prohibitive cap wise as I assumed. As it is after June 1, the signing bonus seems to remain pro-ratad over the contract and other guaranteed money is assumed by the receiving team.
I guess trading Beckham is something that we could do if we wanted from a cap perspective. Of course the real question is would we want to.
What do you mean "isnt as prohibitive"? can you provide more details? I mean, I could look it up myself, but since you already did it......
What am I missing? Seriously, I don't have the brain for this stuff.
What am I missing? Seriously, I don't have the brain for this stuff.
You aren’t missing anything. We’d have $16 million in dead cap next year if we trade Beckham in the offseason.
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I looked into the salary cap ramifications of trading Beckham /Solder from overthecap.com
It seems that it isn't as prohibitive cap wise as I assumed. As it is after June 1, the signing bonus seems to remain pro-ratad over the contract and other guaranteed money is assumed by the receiving team.
I guess trading Beckham is something that we could do if we wanted from a cap perspective. Of course the real question is would we want to.
What do you mean "isnt as prohibitive"? can you provide more details? I mean, I could look it up myself, but since you already did it......
Looking at the 'trade post june' drop down, details the dead money for trades and cap savings.
It seems any signing bonus money is not accelerated as usually the case for trades, this must be due to being after June 1.
If we assume trades after week 8, the dead money is the pro-rata signing bonus, any roster/workout bonuses and half the 2018 salary.
This means it would look something like, but here is what it looks like
Eli Manning
- $16,950,000 dead money + $5,250,000 2018 cap savings ($6,200,000 in dead money in 2019)
Olivier Vernon
- $10,625,000 dead money + $6,375,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Nate Solder
- $7,050,000 dead money + $2,950,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020 and 2021)
Janoris Jenkins
- $6,800,000 dead money + $3,200,000 2018 cap saving ($3,500,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Damon Harrison
- $5,725,000 dead money + $3,875,000 2018 cap saving($1,600,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Odell Beckham, Jr.
- $4,729,000 dead money + $729,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022)
Alec Ogletree
- $3,250,000 dead money + $1,500,000 2018 cap saving ($1,750,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020 and 2021)
Eli Apple
- $3,218,709 dead money + $113,742 2018 cap saving
Link - ( New Window )
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Then we could go OL in rd 1 of the draft.
Maybe a 3 way trade: Eli to the Jags, someone from the Jags to the Raiders, Carr to the Giants
i literally just said this to a buddy.
raiders view as salary dump, jags choose the vet with playoff experience, giants get a younger QB who can move a little more.
im def warming up to a move for carr though.
here is a pretty cool scenario
we get #1 overall, what is the cost for raiders to move up to 1 from lets say 15.
id say
carr
#15 or whatever first from cowboys is
#22 or whatyever the first from bears is
You guys clamoring for Carr need to do your research. He’s widely regarded as the most shell shocked QB in the league. Raider fans rail about how all he does is check down. And when he gets sacked he apparently wines about it.
Exactly, only Odell would net a #1 pick (obviously apart from the off limits Saquon).
It may depend on how Gettleman and Shurmur graded him as a prospect back in 2015.
If we do move on from Eli, we need to upgrade our QB depth somehow.
Lauletta is the style of QB that fits Shurmur’s system and I would guess that at some point he will get some game time before the season is over.
Carr's contract seems to be an issue for any trade. I would prefer to trade for someone like Jacoby Brissett.
Apple trade was good value. They could only get a 5th this past offseason. 6 months later they get a (late) 4th and (2020)7th. Very hard to turn that down.
1. Players who do not fit the culture that Shurmur is trying to build
2. Players with sizable contracts to improve our salary cap situation.
The obvious candidate to me is Janoris Jenkins.
I would consider Olivier Vernon, given his cap number, but that is not a lock.
Eli Manning is an option should we be willing to roll the dice with Lauletta for the rest of the season.
There is no reason to trade guys like Shepard or Engram; they are still on rookie contract and have ability.
Apple trade was good value. They could only get a 5th this past offseason. 6 months later they get a (late) 4th and (2020)7th. Very hard to turn that down.
I think the Eli Apple trade, like releasing Ereck Flowers is all about getting the right locker room culture going forward that Gettleman and Shurmur want.
Patrick Peterson would be a good option if the Cardinals are willing to deal him (which doesn't seem to be the case)
I would also look at Haasan Reddick (who was drafted last year to play in Bettcher's system) and Deone Bucannon.
Both Reddick and Bucannon are not great fits for Wilkes system. Bucannon is scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent after the season.
The other players I would consider trading for given Eli's struggles are Jacoby Brissett and maybe Vikings QB Kyle Sloter (as a depth guy to replace Tanney)
I would trade for good Oline in a heart beat, but there doesn't seem to be much available.
Apple trade was good value. They could only get a 5th this past offseason. 6 months later they get a (late) 4th and (2020)7th. Very hard to turn that down.
I think a 4th and a 7th is easy to turn down. The odds are pretty strong that neither pick turns out to be a long term starter - it's almost like "why bother" getting anything ... I don't believe for a minute that the Giants traded Apple because of the "value" they are receiving... IMO they traded Apple because they didn't want him in the locker room any longer and took what they could get.
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The way I heard it and the belief around the league is they are NOT looking to tear the walls down. They won't get rid of good players for minimal return just for the sake of getting out of contracts.
Apple trade was good value. They could only get a 5th this past offseason. 6 months later they get a (late) 4th and (2020)7th. Very hard to turn that down.
I think a 4th and a 7th is easy to turn down. The odds are pretty strong that neither pick turns out to be a long term starter - it's almost like "why bother" getting anything ... I don't believe for a minute that the Giants traded Apple because of the "value" they are receiving... IMO they traded Apple because they didn't want him in the locker room any longer and took what they could get.
Apple wasn't going to be a long-term solution either, he was not getting another contract from us when his Rookie one ran out
It's great to get rid of bad characters, but you have to have NFL players too.
It's a dynamite off season if you can add 10 good players, at this rate the Giants are looking many, many years away.
If the draft order holds up and the compensation picks turn out like the projection from over the cap on 11 Sept, the Giants currently have the following picks next year
1
34
104
133 (from Saints)
136 (compensation)
141
176
240 (from Vikings)
247 (from Rams)
It's great to get rid of bad characters, but you have to have NFL players too.
It's a dynamite off season if you can add 10 good players, at this rate the Giants are looking many, many years away.
You can't crap out on the number of 1st rd picks the Giants have wasted in the last 10 years and expect a sudden turnaround. It will take 2019, 2020 and 2021 before this team is fully stocked. I'm ok with that if it builds a sustained winning club,
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The Giants are going to wrap up this year with a like 30 guys who are fringe NFL players.
It's great to get rid of bad characters, but you have to have NFL players too.
It's a dynamite off season if you can add 10 good players, at this rate the Giants are looking many, many years away.
You can't crap out on the number of 1st rd picks the Giants have wasted in the last 10 years and expect a sudden turnaround. It will take 2019, 2020 and 2021 before this team is fully stocked. I'm ok with that if it builds a sustained winning club,
I think Gettleman has purged lots of players and replaced them with no-future type guys.
He had a great draft, but outside of the draft and the Ogletree trade, he's added ~30 players who aren't any better than the players he moved away from.
I would understand that approach if he hadn't signed Solder, Omameh, Martin, Latimer, and Stewart etc. to 50M worth of guaranteed money.
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The Giants are going to wrap up this year with a like 30 guys who are fringe NFL players.
It's great to get rid of bad characters, but you have to have NFL players too.
It's a dynamite off season if you can add 10 good players, at this rate the Giants are looking many, many years away.
You can't crap out on the number of 1st rd picks the Giants have wasted in the last 10 years and expect a sudden turnaround. It will take 2019, 2020 and 2021 before this team is fully stocked. I'm ok with that if it builds a sustained winning club,
Drafting has been a core problem for some time. Premium free agents to fill needs isn't the sustainable way to build the roster.
On the plus side it seems that Gettleman has a much better hit rate so far (it is early days). Barkley is a stud, Hernandez and Hill are starters already and Carter is providing valaluable contribution. That is a 66% hit rate so far. We will have to see about Lauletta and McIntosh.
If Gettleman can keep up a 66% hit rate, with 4-5 rookies either becoming starters (or providing valuable contributions), we can build the core of the roster pretty quickly.
accumulate picks and build young talent, specifically adding to the o-line. try to give lauletta a fighting chance next year
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The way I heard it and the belief around the league is they are NOT looking to tear the walls down. They won't get rid of good players for minimal return just for the sake of getting out of contracts.
Apple trade was good value. They could only get a 5th this past offseason. 6 months later they get a (late) 4th and (2020)7th. Very hard to turn that down.
I think a 4th and a 7th is easy to turn down. The odds are pretty strong that neither pick turns out to be a long term starter - it's almost like "why bother" getting anything ... I don't believe for a minute that the Giants traded Apple because of the "value" they are receiving... IMO they traded Apple because they didn't want him in the locker room any longer and took what they could get.
Draft capital shouldn't be undersold.
Getting two draft picks for a player they wanted out of the locker room is good value.
Except that's not what said. He included a rookie draft pick.
And how is Herbert "not worth it?"
It's like a sick patient who goes to the hospital. The doctor gives some antibiotics that does not work. The patient returns to the hospital and finds out the problem was completely misdiagnosed and says he's sorry.
Would a person then trust that same doctor again to get them back to good health?
They can't declare. Not eligible for a few years. The rule is that to be eligible for the NFL draft, you need to have been out of high school for 3 years.
Thus, Tua isn't even eligible until after the 2019 college season and Lawrence would not be eligible until after the 2020 college season.
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that Gettleman will rebuild through trades. He is gearing up for FA and the draft. I wish TUA and Lawrence (true freshman) would declare. I think both will be better than any QB in last yrs draft and this yr.
They can't declare. Not eligible for a few years. The rule is that to be eligible for the NFL draft, you need to have been out of high school for 3 years.
Thus, Tua isn't even eligible until after the 2019 college season and Lawrence would not be eligible until after the 2020 college season.
I know, but I think both are going to be dynamite.
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In comment 14144832 Big_Pete said:
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I looked into the salary cap ramifications of trading Beckham /Solder from overthecap.com
It seems that it isn't as prohibitive cap wise as I assumed. As it is after June 1, the signing bonus seems to remain pro-ratad over the contract and other guaranteed money is assumed by the receiving team.
I guess trading Beckham is something that we could do if we wanted from a cap perspective. Of course the real question is would we want to.
What do you mean "isnt as prohibitive"? can you provide more details? I mean, I could look it up myself, but since you already did it......
Looking at the 'trade post june' drop down, details the dead money for trades and cap savings.
It seems any signing bonus money is not accelerated as usually the case for trades, this must be due to being after June 1.
If we assume trades after week 8, the dead money is the pro-rata signing bonus, any roster/workout bonuses and half the 2018 salary.
This means it would look something like, but here is what it looks like
Eli Manning
- $16,950,000 dead money + $5,250,000 2018 cap savings ($6,200,000 in dead money in 2019)
Olivier Vernon
- $10,625,000 dead money + $6,375,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Nate Solder
- $7,050,000 dead money + $2,950,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020 and 2021)
Janoris Jenkins
- $6,800,000 dead money + $3,200,000 2018 cap saving ($3,500,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Damon Harrison
- $5,725,000 dead money + $3,875,000 2018 cap saving($1,600,000 in dead money in 2019 and 2020)
Odell Beckham, Jr.
- $4,729,000 dead money + $729,000 2018 cap saving ($4,000,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022)
Alec Ogletree
- $3,250,000 dead money + $1,500,000 2018 cap saving ($1,750,000 in dead money in 2019, 2020 and 2021)
Eli Apple
- $3,218,709 dead money + $113,742 2018 cap saving Link - ( New Window )
Harrison dead money in 2019 is $3.2 million according to OTC. Looks like you have to add all the remaining years of dead money for 2019 and later, and lump in into 2019.
Agreed - which is why I think moving Collins for anything less than a 1st or 2nd round pick would be a monumental mistake.
Good, young player who's inexpensive. If he leaves in FA, he gets paid good money and we're looking at a 4th round pick. If you trade him for shit, the message you're sending to the rest of the team is 'prepare yourself for a lot of garbage football' and 'it doesn't matter how good you are, you're disposable'.
From a culture perspective, basically a disaster.
The Jets are usually on CBS . ;P
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And will actively root against this team if they trade Snacks. At this point he's the best or second best player on the team and someone who I love watching play football.
The Jets are usually on CBS . ;P
Nope. I'm done for now. I'll find something else to do for a few hours on Sundays.
I'll still post to BBI though because you'll all miss me if I'm gone.
lol no