I agree with this. I think there are a lot worse owners in sports (including NYC) & NFL than Mara. Since 2012, they have tried to patchwork instead of doing root cause problem solving and starting over. Francesa mentioned Chuck Noll’s biggest regret in being overly sentimental.
This is what it boils down to in my opinion. Mara has not been able to move on from Coughlin/Eli & 2 SB’s will make that extremely difficult. They botched the Coughlin exit & our doing the same to Eli. The franchise needs a reset & when that happens I think ownership will be fine, but I understand the difficulty in doing this.
Mara is not worse than Dolan/Wilpon.
The GM's and coaches who got us into this mess in the first place were chosen by him.
Super Bowls?
Yup I think it looms large.
You all got your wish. John granted it, but it was the wrong move. It was made to just shut the cry babies up.
seriously dude, do you have 2 fucking eyes?
Why didn't Coughlin listen?
But the regular season and entire body of work is actually more indicative of a player or coach's actual value. I think Mara knows that but he has hard time pulling the trigger.
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Look, Simms was one of my childhood heroes. Releasing him pissed me off something fierce, and it was the wrong move at the time.....but good lord, you can't let that drive you to never cut loose a rapidly declining franchise icon again.
Yup I think it looms large.
Personally I think that Eli is around because he is profitable in some other ways beyond the on field performance. Sad.
I wonder about that. He says that's a part of it, but Simms was released following an 11-5 season. Eli, on the other hand...
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Based on what?
seriously dude, do you have 2 fucking eyes?
Maybe figure out what my post meant before responding like a angry idiot.
I'm asking where the belief that he knows how to win comes from. If I'm supposed to see anything other than a horrendous football team that became one of the biggest doormats in the NFL in rapid order, I'm not sure what to tell you.
The Giants are a disaster and John Mara is a huge reason why.
Oh, I remember it all. I remember people wanting Hostetler for Simms, I remember Simms being released and it being reported he was on his way to tryouts elsewhere. And no matter how much I drink, I still remember the Dave Brown (and Graham, and Kanell) era.
Thing is - they were pushing Simms out to pasture, and probably too soon. He was still playing well, but he was showing signs of age.
Eli hasn't been playing well for some time now. How much of that is on him vs. the rest of the roster is debatable, but the offense hasn't been working for a long time now. Not really comparable to moving from Simms.
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Based on what?
Super Bowls?
The ones that had rosters comprised of many key players acquired before he took over for his father?
Accorsi was the guy who got Eli here.
The 3 guys alone that Accorsi signed in 2005 (Burress, McKenzie, Pierce) also paid huge dividends to this football team.
John Mara didn't hire Accorsi.
He did hire the guy who blew several drafts and the guy who many believe put us here to begin with. He did oust Tom Coughlin in favor of Ben McAdoo - who was fired 2 years later. He did hire Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur - who seem to have exacerbated this disaster.
I'm not sure John Mara really deserves all that much credit for the Super Bowls that were won with key players.
I do think he deserves a lot of criticism for how bad the team has become.
He totally misunderstood his fanbase if he thought the revolt was rooted in the merits of Manning's benching rather than how it was handled.
Welli got Young handed to him by Rozelle. Young hired Parcells. Then Welli was there for baton hand off from Young to Accorsi. Accorsi hired TC, and deserves more GM credit than Reese.
The 2012 run was a gift from the Football Gods. And we seem to be paying for that ever since.
So I see absolutely nothing that John Mara is somehow this gifted owner who knows how to win. The math doesn't add up...
agree. I have a feeling that Eli is now doing harm to his rep and brand now. Are 2 SB rings, longevity, and diminishing stats enough?
His patience during that stretch was huge for 2 SB titles. And for all the shit this ownership group gets (deserved right now), they are the only franchise with a SB title in each of the last 4 decades. Are we all just dismissing that now.
It’s time to move on from the past and bring in fresh eyes. No more listening to the fans regarding sentimentality.
You all got your wish. John granted it, but it was the wrong move. It was made to just shut the cry babies up.
People were upset because (1) of the way it was done; and (2) it was not done with an eye towards the future--it was done to play Geno Smith to try to save McAdoo's (and Reese's) jobs. If the plan was to get Webb significant reps I think the vast majority of the fan base would have been ok with it. If they sit Eli for Lauletta in a few weeks I think most here will be totally in favor.
You left out the punchline, though - the offense wasn't any worse with Geno Smith than it was with Eli. That should have opened some eyes, but it didn't, really.
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense?
The entire purpose to benching Eli was to see how the offense performed with someone other than him behind center. Smith was just the guy we had on the roster; we had Webb too, but he was too raw and wouldn't tell us much.
The notion that McAdoo/Reese thought that Geno Smith of all people was going to run in and save the day is ridiculous. It's akin to saying Shurmur should stick Tanney in there to see if he can save his job.
We've been all over the map with this franchise. When we hoisted that Lombardi after SB46, I thought we were entering Patriots/Steelers territory - now we're in Cleveland Browns territory.
Why because he was named Eli? It was foreshadowing like in a novel
Dave Brown was actually serviceable in 1994 which gave us false hope going into those next two awful years. We actually won 6 in a row to get to 9-7 and almost made the playoffs as a wild card; in retrospect that was the worst 6 game winning streak in franchise history
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And what happened after that? 9-7, 5-11, 6-10, with Dave Brown playing some really bad QB.
Dave Brown was actually serviceable in 1994 which gave us false hope going into those next two awful years. We actually won 6 in a row to get to 9-7 and almost made the playoffs as a wild card; in retrospect that was the worst 6 game winning streak in franchise history
The 6-game winning streak in 2016 wasn't so great in hindsight, either.
Mike is only good for baseball. He absolutely sucks at football analysis.
Really Mike is only good for rants, that is about it. He's just a blowhard with a microphone.
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Look, Simms was one of my childhood heroes. Releasing him pissed me off something fierce, and it was the wrong move at the time.....but good lord, you can't let that drive you to never cut loose a rapidly declining franchise icon again.
Yup I think it looms large.
I think mara has even said as much that the Simms release haunts him to this day.
Exactly right. This is why I've always maintained that the Parcells era was better than the Coughlin era. Even in the years when they won Super Bowls, you never knew what Giants team would show up on any given week.
The '80s Giants didn't win every game, but damned if I wasn't confident that they had a good shot every week.
At least, when they weren't playing the damned Eagles.
You’re kind of overrating the 80s and underrating 05-11. Both eras were awesome. Both occurred in vastly different periods. Check and compare the wins and losses from both periods. Nearly indentical.
We don’t need to disparage the second super bowl era golden age of giants football. Fans were assholes from 05-07. That team was extremely fun to watch. Fans weren’t satisfied becsuse Eli wasn’t peyton. The team was just fine and Eli was ascending at a typically up and down rate.
The 80s teams were more predictable but the entire league was back then. We know why.
The Coughlin teams after 2008 just weren't that great, the Super Bowl notwithstanding. Before they went completely off the cliff in 2013, they were 36-28, managed to barely squeak into the playoffs only in 2011.
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(and I am sure before my time in the 50s and 60s) I cannot explain what it is like to wake up every Sunday and think your team can and should win.
Exactly right. This is why I've always maintained that the Parcells era was better than the Coughlin era. Even in the years when they won Super Bowls, you never knew what Giants team would show up on any given week.
Is it even close? Parcells had a team on the verge in '85 - just lost to the insane Bears - and were a great team in '89 - just got f-cked by Flipper.
The 9ers were very fortunate the Rams beat the Giants in '89.
From '84 to '90 the only "bad" season was the '87 season when their was the strike...
G. Young & Ernie knew how to win.
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People were upset because (1) of the way it was done; and (2) it was not done with an eye towards the future--it was done to play Geno Smith to try to save McAdoo's (and Reese's) jobs. If the plan was to get Webb significant reps I think the vast majority of the fan base would have been ok with it. If they sit Eli for Lauletta in a few weeks I think most here will be totally in favor.
You left out the punchline, though - the offense wasn't any worse with Geno Smith than it was with Eli. That should have opened some eyes, but it didn't, really.
Cue the angry mob.