at least there is the vindication the Eli skeptics were right. Small consolation. But given some of the arrogance of the pro Eli crowd, quite frankly somewhat enjoyable. Amazing some of these posters are doubling down on the same tired line about his ability to be effective elsewhere.
Overshadowed by the mess. But this week was the beginning of what they have needed to do for a long time, actual honest rebuild. Finally.
Is it arrogance on our part? I mean for the most part many of us have argued that the supporting cast has been inferior for years. So our consolation is seeing the trash being cut or traded and not have any success leaving the team proves us right too.
You look at the Randles, Tyes, Donnells, Flowers, Jennings, and a whole shit load of others who are either riding the pine or out of the NFL together - it goes to show we were right too.
Eli best days are long gone. I think what we are seeing is that everyone was right in one form of another.
not at all. but if it makes you feel better- sure.
every team has a bad guy here and there ---- lots of teams have mediocre number 2 WRs- and such. who cares though.
you were sh$tting on every person who saw he was declining 3+ years ago... and now are acting like you are calling for change cause its the right time now, and starting threads about it trying to sound unbiased and rational- convincing yourself in your brain that you arent late to a very depressing party that has been going on for some time
Yes hassan, mostly annoyed at Front Office as this was a colossal Â
mistake from the get-go and they should know better. You don't "kind of" restructure...you do it deep, fast and without emotion to what was. Otherwise, it is subject to simply failing and wasting time and money.
As a fan I am disappointed...if I was an equity shareholder looking at this team as a business, I would be pissed.
Regarding the arrogance of the defenders of the faith on here, I agree its expected. Have you noticed the tone changes and pivots each week since early September as they looked for parachutes. Here are some...
Eli can't win behind THIS line.
Underestimated how bad this TEAM was.
Shurmur's offense doesn't FIT our QB.
A QB would not have made us any better.
What would would be our record if we didn't have Barkley.
Eli is NOT ALLOWED to throw long.
And now, the defenders want to argue that these moves are part of the Plan, or some new adjusted plan I guess. What a crock of shit. They are just giving up and this is the next easiest move they can execute...a round of applause please.
You defend Eli yes, but I get the sense you don't want the entire team structure off the hook for Eli's mess vs endorsing his current play and form.
You also supported drafting Darnold and are suggesting Eli needs to stop starting.
this is materially different than many others (no need to name) that are ridiculing posters for being skeptical. Or suggested like the OP that there is a market for Eli and he can go play for a contender (MAYBE JAX, but doubtful and there is no real market for him).
Or even worse, were part of the fan revolt that led to the doubling down.....
I will add this latest pivot...hot off the press Â
not at all. but if it makes you feel better- sure.
every team has a bad guy here and there ---- lots of teams have mediocre number 2 WRs- and such. who cares though.
you were sh$tting on every person who saw he was declining 3+ years ago... and now are acting like you are calling for change cause its the right time now, and starting threads about it trying to sound unbiased and rational- convincing yourself in your brain that you arent late to a very depressing party that has been going on for some time
I wasnt right? Really. Thats total bullshit on your part. People started shitting on him after 2016 - a season in which during the year I had pointed out that outside OBJ, the majority of starters were not even NFL caliber players, yet alone starters. Cruz, Tye, Donnell, Jennings were all either out of the league or practice squad players. The fact you have the audicity to make this post shows how fucking little you know about anything.
Cause tell me what I said about Eli last year. One thing. I would LOVE to hear what I said about Eli's play last year. So you have the guts to call me out - at least get your facts straight because once again, your knowledge off anything is off base. You come across as a know it all cause you know someone that gives you information. Doesnt make you smart whatsoever.
Yes, I have been critical of the personnel. Are you saying am I wrong? Are you saying we have had playoff caliber people on the OL and as skilled people since 2012? You going on record saying that? You defended such shit players like Randle in the past that its downright comical you are going to call me out on this shit.
We have been one of the worst rushing teams and defenseive teams (outside 2016) since 2012. This isnt speculation, this is 100% fact.
So go ahead big mouth - show me ONE thing I said about Eli last year that defended his play during the year last year. Just one. Bet BBI membership you cant.
very good comments and in total agreement. I run a business, and I have had to cut my sentimentality off to do the right thing for the future more than once. It always is the right move. Look at NE. Look at PHI. they run consistent winners this century. The Giants went in the opposite direction.
The pivots are impressive to be sure. Excuse making at its finest.
The latest is this pointing to his 'good' stats. Just one reference to a QBR ranking though shows his stat line is a total fraudulent story. He was much better with qb ranks in the 80s earlier in his career.
You defend Eli yes, but I get the sense you don't want the entire team structure off the hook for Eli's mess vs endorsing his current play and form.
You also supported drafting Darnold and are suggesting Eli needs to stop starting.
this is materially different than many others (no need to name) that are ridiculing posters for being skeptical. Or suggested like the OP that there is a market for Eli and he can go play for a contender (MAYBE JAX, but doubtful and there is no real market for him).
Or even worse, were part of the fan revolt that led to the doubling down.....
Thank you. As you can see on this thread there are certain posters who care more about being right than root for the Giants.
People here make bold statements all the time whether they are right or wrong. Believe it or not, I still think Eli can play at a pretty high level - but just not on this team. And being that I think we are years away from contending, I wish he would go out on one more high note. Which will be next week hopefully.
Just certain posters who got under my skin when they have been more wrong than others in the past and then have the nerve to call out others. No place for that here at BBI. But they continue to do it on a weekly basis.
I will say......I have come to understand your viewpoint. But your constant posting to defend Manning's honor makes it easy to confuse your position.
There is no need to beat up on him incessantly I agree.
But these stupid stat line posts or people suggesting he should start another year or two for NYG are just mind blowing at this point.
I cannot even imagine NYG will start him for another 9 games this year. If he is on the roster next year it is a disgrace by this management. They need to spare him at this point and evaluate Lauletta.
Says I haven’t been right about the roster management of this team for years is downright the most laughable thing I’ve read on BBI.
But again this is from Rueben Randle’s biggest fan and he never did anything wrong... so we will take it for as it is.
stop making shit up
i said you have been dead wrong on eli- of course randle wasnt great-- no sh$t-- but for years you sat there and made every excuse about every interceptions, every loss, every missed throw- for 5 years-----
the roster and team management has been very poor... no shit.... but you starting threads about moving on from Eli is like a trader stopping out of a horrible trade they have carried and defended for several years.
he has been a problem the whole time as well.
so stop making up shit about what i think and dont think.
if im wrong i am cool with it. be cool with being wrong and stop tripping over yourself to start threads to make it seem like you are ahead of the game on the QB front.
you are not.
I will say......I have come to understand your viewpoint. But your constant posting to defend Manning's honor makes it easy to confuse your position.
There is no need to beat up on him incessantly I agree.
But these stupid stat line posts or people suggesting he should start another year or two for NYG are just mind blowing at this point.
I cannot even imagine NYG will start him for another 9 games this year. If he is on the roster next year it is a disgrace by this management. They need to spare him at this point and evaluate Lauletta.
I agree. If we had drafted a QB, the switch would be made already. I am not a big star guy as how to a QB plays. They should always be used as context. Hell I argued for years that completion percentage can be overrated. I rather Eli be high 50s than high 60s If it meant more down field strikes and TDs.
Says I haven’t been right about the roster management of this team for years is downright the most laughable thing I’ve read on BBI.
But again this is from Rueben Randle’s biggest fan and he never did anything wrong... so we will take it for as it is.
stop making shit up
i said you have been dead wrong on eli- of course randle wasnt great-- no sh$t-- but for years you sat there and made every excuse about every interceptions, every loss, every missed throw- for 5 years-----
the roster and team management has been very poor... no shit.... but you starting threads about moving on from Eli is like a trader stopping out of a horrible trade they have carried and defended for several years.
he has been a problem the whole time as well.
so stop making up shit about what i think and dont think.
if im wrong i am cool with it. be cool with being wrong and stop tripping over yourself to start threads to make it seem like you are ahead of the game on the QB front.
you are not.
Worry about being an asshat and not an ass. You come across better.
And you weren’t randles biggest fan??? Lol. Just stop now. NO ONE defended him more than you. No one.
i probably thought he was better than he was for a window. so ok... you got me. i was "wrong"-- he was worse then i thought---- but not the reason Eli was already declining while he was here. He was just declining
im pretty certain im not regarded as an ass, but if i am i am cool with it.
i probably thought he was better than he was for a window. so ok... you got me. i was "wrong"-- he was worse then i thought---- but not the reason Eli was already declining while he was here. He was just declining
im pretty certain im not regarded as an ass, but if i am i am cool with it.
Hey you brought up what was said “years ago” so I thought you did care.
The fact of the matter is the people who called Eli’s decline were ahead of the curve much like the people who said the roster talent was going down the tubes. So as I said before before your gem of a post... everyone was right. But keep spewing whatever you want...
I don't think some of you know what the term "Garbage Time" means Â
Garbage time is racking up yards passing when the D you are playing is clearly in prevent and the game completely out of reach minus a complete miracle. Regardless of what your perception is throwing when your within a score or two is not garbage time and is still a winnable game.
This thread is a good litmus test to show you who can read statistics off a web page and who actually understands them contextually.
No, I think it's a good illustration of how statistics can either be used to analyze a situation vs. as a tool to help drive home a point. I don't think these posters are legitimately interpreting the stats, I think they started with a conclusion and they're working backwards.
to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
Only 1 of eli’s TDs started out of the end zone. And that was from his RB. So your point isn’t as accurate as you think.
Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
Only 1 of eli’s TDs started out of the end zone. And that was from his RB. So your point isn’t as accurate as you think.
What the defense gives you. We saw a lot more big plays because Atlanta wAnted to take Barkley away. We hit downfield a lot more Monday. We had some crossing routes with YAC opportunities.
Eli missed some throws as well. But a lot of the reason your example of saving the day comes into play is because it’s the only option. Unless you prefer him to throw into double coverage or take more chances for INTs?
Opposing defenses have been using the "take what they give you" Â
mantra to their advantage against the giants for years. It really just underscores the deception of the passing stats we're seeing.
Eli's completing a lot of short passes because the defenses he faces are allowing it with basic coverages and encouraging it with easy pressure against a bad offensive line. They want all those 3 yard passes because they know once the Giants get inside the 20s they can't execute. Every game is an exercise in playing into the defenses' hands. We've been seeing the same book for three or four years.
Case in point, here's Eli's passing numbers in 2018 Â
to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
I'm not trying to make an argument for Eli here but more so an argument against you're logic. You do realize that you are comparing a stat based on team play vs stats for the individual right? The completion percentage is about the QB. The number of interceptions is about the person throwing the interceptions or the person catching them. A win/loss record is a team based stat.
For example, citing that Eli has 2 SB wins is nice and all but that's more about the whole team. However, Eli's 2 SB MVPs are specific to Eli Manning. Big Ben has 2 SB wins, a 2-1 SB record, and 0 SB MVPs. Vinny Testaverde has none of those things.
"Humiliating title"? I never heard of this title until you made it up. Has anybody else? This is some horseshit that you completely made up. Nobody cares about this. Also, Testaverde's stats "at the conclusion of his career" doesn't mean much by today's standards. Not too mention he had to do that being bounced around to 8 different teams throughout his career. Hell, Jesus himself wouldn't attempt the leap you're attempting.
Vinny Testaverde, to your attempted point, was the QB for the most losses to his team at 126 according to my research (as opposed to your cited 123). Eli Manning is tied with Drew Brees at the 3rd spot with 113. Are you saying Drew Brees sucks too? Brett Favre has the 2nd spot at 123 losses.
Not to mention you are citing a specific number without it's contrast (wins) which is also a fallacy. You are ignoring the other side of the coin to solely support your argument. Vinny Testaverde is at .422 and Eli is at .515. Again, Drew Brees, is at .577. I guess Drew Brees sucks a little less than Eli Manning? Ironically, Archie Manning is the worst at .263 (101 Losses btw).
I will cite the source I found and I honestly don't know the reputation of the site. That's probably because this isn't a stat anyone gives a shit about since it doesn't truly reflect much about the actual player.
Therefore, your entire argument is bullshit.
Lastly, so my feelings on Eli are clear, I don't think he's the problem but he's not the solution at this point in his career either. The giants can do worse. They can also do better. What I don't understand is why, a Giants' fan, feels the need to shit all over his legacy. Why would you not want Eli Manning in the HoF? How can his induction be anything but a positive for the team we all love (I would hope even when we are disappointed in them)? https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=&alltime=1&sort=l - ( New Window )
it’s garbage time. atlanta stats were garbage time. so were dallas. so was some of new orleans. the d was not playing to get the o off the field and played soft to limit gains. the eagles game even saw a bit of empty yards at end.
it’s all in his terrible qbr already factored.
anyone justifying these stats as some good performances is reading a stat line, Only 2013 was worse and quite frankly that team even got on a win streak and scored a bit. This is probably his worst season as a
starter.
to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
has there been any rumors of teams interested in Eli?
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
has there been any rumors of teams interested in Eli?
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
dep, I don't know if this team can pull it off, but since they attempted to get Mack before the season, do you think the LA Rams could make the money work and do a trade and give them a "Foles type" backup QB ready at a moments notice?
to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
Most losses by a Quarterback All Time:
Vinny Testeverde: 126
Brett Favre: 123 (HOF)
Drew Brees: 113 (HOF, is there any doubt?)
Eli Manning: 113
Warren Moon: 108 (HOF)
Dan Marino: 103 (HOF)
I quoted regular seasons wins and losses. You wanna check again?
I knew people would bring up Favre and Brees. Currently Brees is 40 games above .500, Eli is 3. To think you could not tell the day and night difference between those two career records is insulting your intellegience, so I won’t do that.
Nobody thinks Eli is nearly as HoF worthy as Brees — despite the 2-to-1 ring ratio and only one spot separating them in the all time losing list. Any doubt to THAT, Britt??
And if Eli does get to career loss #124 and solely occupies the top spot in NFL’s all time losing list, to think the media and fans outside of NY— we all know how they view him, fairly or not — would not stick the “losingest QB in NFL history” label to him, is also intellegience insulting. And he will keep that title for decades.
My biggest beef is that against such a damning and important factor, there are still those cocksure about Eli being a Hall of Famer — which the media will decide. In fact, they claim he is a lock, with only uncertainty and regret with him possibly not getting in on first ballot.
First Ballot Hall of Famer, now that’s insulting my intellegience, thus my response.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
Eli has 21 more losses than Rivers and 44 more than Roethlisberger. I guess the longevity only affected Eli's record?
You should probably realize that people who can objectively discuss Eli's shortcomings do not necessarily have an agenda.
The post wasn't objective, it was false. All time Quarterback Career losses. Eli is in pretty good company. HOF company, even, despite the fact that the poster was trying to use it as a case AGAINST the HOF.
And added and exclamation point that it was a joke that Eli could even be thought of as a first ballot HOF'er.
Finally, Gary Meyers, a guy with an actual HOF vote and no real reason to say so, stated he would in fact vote for Eli in his first year of eligibility, despite the losses, and every other knock this fanbase comes up with to try and diminish his case.
Objective.
I think some people need to think about the vitriol they post with.... Â
If I didn't know better, I'd think I was reading a Cowboys, Eagles, or Skins board.
Actually, I've read some of their boards, he gets more respect there than here.
He very well could end up as the losingest QB of all time. That's not opinion nor is it disrespectful, it's a real possibility.
And because Gary Meyers has already offered his endorsement, you think it's fait accompli that Eli is a lock HOFer (and first-ballot at that)? He's not. His HOF case will be fascinating because it really is such a mixed bag - he has some of the most outstanding accomplishments a QB could wish for on his resume, but also has a lot of knocks against him: potentially a career record below .500, led the NFL in interceptions three times, turned the ball over more than any QB during his career, missed the playoffs in 60% of his seasons, failed to win a single game in two thirds of his playoff appearances.
And yet, two-time SB QB, two-time SB MVP. Walter Payton Man of the Year winner. Those are as indelible as his shortcomings. The yards and TDs are somewhat watered down because the entire list will soon be populated by Eli's contemporaries because that's just the way the game is played now. When he's finished, Eli will be a top ten QB statistically, but does anyone truly believe he's one of the ten greatest QBs to ever play the game? Of course not.
I sincerely doubt it will be the open and shut case you think it will be, but I do think it will be interesting. I won't be shocked either way because I tend to think I can see both sides of the argument.
That said, I'm sorry that it bothers you so much to see your hero go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Father Time remains undefeated.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
Britt, I'll address your points one at a time.
First, I was at Candlestick for the 2012 NFC title game, then at Indy two weeks later for Super Bowl 46, voraciously cheering for the team , mostly when Eli handled the ball.
So I "have an agenda (against Eli)" my ass. YOU YOURSELF are the one who "need to think about the vitriol they post with", as you cautioned above.
Second, the very title of this thread entails Eli's career. So why is it out of line talking about Eli's career losses? And I did not ignore his winnings -- I mentioned that he's now a grand total of 3 games above .500: so in other words, over Eli's entire career it takes him 5 years to win one more game than he loses. Is it vitriol of me to recognize that, and think that's important in judging a player's career?
Third, you eagerly mentioned Favre and Brees being in close proximity to Eli in NFL's all-time losing list, yet ignored their vast superiority over Eli in terms of wins vs. losses, and accordingly their vast superiority over Eli in terms of their HoF credentials. Is that the objectivity you so urged above? You mentioned "longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else", yet did not mention the much fewer losses suffered by Ben and Rivers, Eli's exact contemporaries and HoF competitors. Is that your objectivity?
Fourth, I said "media outside of NY". The Gary Myers you mentioned is NY based, is he not? And judging from the established fact that Eli has been considered by the media as top 5 among his peers in no more than two of his 15 years, I do think this view that Eli's HoF being a "lock", just "maybe not on first ballot" to be a joke.
Lastly, about Eli's post season wins (and losses). Let me say this: I will fiercely debate against anyone who dares to claim the two titles are illegitimate, or tainted, because there was no controversial calls along the way. Eli and Giants won them fair and square. However, I really do have a very hard time argue against the opinion that those two titles were won with a LOT of luck, catching lightning in a bottle (yes, twice). I know all the "you made your own luck", "luck favors the prepared" cliché, but with each additional loss piling on, with each additional utterly inept performance in today's passing-happy NFL, it just isolates those two titles more and more, furthering the belief that those 8 weeks were such an extreme outlier in his 15-year career, and that those two silver trophies are enough for Eli, no additional accolade (such as HoF) is deserved in the future.
Really, I think people will increasingly treat the two titles as "they just got lucky", such as the Giants recovering 15 of the 21 fumbles in those 8 wins, including all 11 of their own. And contrary to a popular BBI theory, these are not people who have an agenda and biased hatre against poor Eli.
I said this before: Eli and the Giants would not have won either of those two titles if their defense were substituted with ANY of the other 31 NFL defenses that year. The same cannot be said about many Super Bowl champs, including the damn Eagles and Nick Foles last year. And those 8 weeks, as of right now, constitute 95% of Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
on team, not individual. The HOF is an individual accomplishment.
Eli's supporting casts will go down as below average when it comes to comparing him to his peers. In the last decade he has suffered some of the worst OLs in the league, some of the worst run offenses, and believe it or not - below average defenses.
The stigma that I find funny is when the Giants are good at something - they are REALLY good at it. We had some dominant defenses. We had some dominant run games. And those dominant units get passes for years that they are boarderline pathetic.
But as far as units concern - Eli has had some really piss poor units surrounding him, especially since 2010.
to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
I'm not trying to make an argument for Eli here but more so an argument against you're logic. You do realize that you are comparing a stat based on team play vs stats for the individual right? The completion percentage is about the QB. The number of interceptions is about the person throwing the interceptions or the person catching them. A win/loss record is a team based stat.
For example, citing that Eli has 2 SB wins is nice and all but that's more about the whole team. However, Eli's 2 SB MVPs are specific to Eli Manning. Big Ben has 2 SB wins, a 2-1 SB record, and 0 SB MVPs. Vinny Testaverde has none of those things.
"Humiliating title"? I never heard of this title until you made it up. Has anybody else? This is some horseshit that you completely made up. Nobody cares about this. Also, Testaverde's stats "at the conclusion of his career" doesn't mean much by today's standards. Not too mention he had to do that being bounced around to 8 different teams throughout his career. Hell, Jesus himself wouldn't attempt the leap you're attempting.
Vinny Testaverde, to your attempted point, was the QB for the most losses to his team at 126 according to my research (as opposed to your cited 123). Eli Manning is tied with Drew Brees at the 3rd spot with 113. Are you saying Drew Brees sucks too? Brett Favre has the 2nd spot at 123 losses.
Not to mention you are citing a specific number without it's contrast (wins) which is also a fallacy. You are ignoring the other side of the coin to solely support your argument. Vinny Testaverde is at .422 and Eli is at .515. Again, Drew Brees, is at .577. I guess Drew Brees sucks a little less than Eli Manning? Ironically, Archie Manning is the worst at .263 (101 Losses btw).
I will cite the source I found and I honestly don't know the reputation of the site. That's probably because this isn't a stat anyone gives a shit about since it doesn't truly reflect much about the actual player.
Therefore, your entire argument is bullshit.
Lastly, so my feelings on Eli are clear, I don't think he's the problem but he's not the solution at this point in his career either. The giants can do worse. They can also do better. What I don't understand is why, a Giants' fan, feels the need to shit all over his legacy. Why would you not want Eli Manning in the HoF? How can his induction be anything but a positive for the team we all love (I would hope even when we are disappointed in them)? https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=&alltime=1&sort=l - ( New Window )
it’s garbage time. atlanta stats were garbage time. so were dallas. so was some of new orleans. the d was not playing to get the o off the field and played soft to limit gains. the eagles game even saw a bit of empty yards at end.
it’s all in his terrible qbr already factored.
anyone justifying these stats as some good performances is reading a stat line, Only 2013 was worse and quite frankly that team even got on a win streak and scored a bit. This is probably his worst season as a
starter.
If the game was still in doubt it's not garbage time. Hell someone even tried to say the 3rd quarter was garbage time, that is not what garbage time is. Garbage time is throwing late in a game in which a come back is nearly impossible. Outside of Dallas, which I'll give you, none of those games have been like that. Just because a team isn't blitzing or putting 8 in the box does not mean it's garbage time, in face it's more of an indictment against our line, the fact that they can get pressure with only four or five men.
has there been any rumors of teams interested in Eli?
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
dep, I don't know if this team can pull it off, but since they attempted to get Mack before the season, do you think the LA Rams could make the money work and do a trade and give them a "Foles type" backup QB ready at a moments notice?
Just an outside-the-box idea.
He's not going to give up his "no trade clause" to be a back up.
Overshadowed by the mess. But this week was the beginning of what they have needed to do for a long time, actual honest rebuild. Finally.
Is it arrogance on our part? I mean for the most part many of us have argued that the supporting cast has been inferior for years. So our consolation is seeing the trash being cut or traded and not have any success leaving the team proves us right too.
You look at the Randles, Tyes, Donnells, Flowers, Jennings, and a whole shit load of others who are either riding the pine or out of the NFL together - it goes to show we were right too.
Eli best days are long gone. I think what we are seeing is that everyone was right in one form of another.
every team has a bad guy here and there ---- lots of teams have mediocre number 2 WRs- and such. who cares though.
you were sh$tting on every person who saw he was declining 3+ years ago... and now are acting like you are calling for change cause its the right time now, and starting threads about it trying to sound unbiased and rational- convincing yourself in your brain that you arent late to a very depressing party that has been going on for some time
As a fan I am disappointed...if I was an equity shareholder looking at this team as a business, I would be pissed.
Regarding the arrogance of the defenders of the faith on here, I agree its expected. Have you noticed the tone changes and pivots each week since early September as they looked for parachutes. Here are some...
Eli can't win behind THIS line.
Underestimated how bad this TEAM was.
Shurmur's offense doesn't FIT our QB.
A QB would not have made us any better.
What would would be our record if we didn't have Barkley.
Eli is NOT ALLOWED to throw long.
And now, the defenders want to argue that these moves are part of the Plan, or some new adjusted plan I guess. What a crock of shit. They are just giving up and this is the next easiest move they can execute...a round of applause please.
A mess indeed...
I really don't count you in this crowd.
You defend Eli yes, but I get the sense you don't want the entire team structure off the hook for Eli's mess vs endorsing his current play and form.
You also supported drafting Darnold and are suggesting Eli needs to stop starting.
this is materially different than many others (no need to name) that are ridiculing posters for being skeptical. Or suggested like the OP that there is a market for Eli and he can go play for a contender (MAYBE JAX, but doubtful and there is no real market for him).
Or even worse, were part of the fan revolt that led to the doubling down.....
every team has a bad guy here and there ---- lots of teams have mediocre number 2 WRs- and such. who cares though.
you were sh$tting on every person who saw he was declining 3+ years ago... and now are acting like you are calling for change cause its the right time now, and starting threads about it trying to sound unbiased and rational- convincing yourself in your brain that you arent late to a very depressing party that has been going on for some time
I wasnt right? Really. Thats total bullshit on your part. People started shitting on him after 2016 - a season in which during the year I had pointed out that outside OBJ, the majority of starters were not even NFL caliber players, yet alone starters. Cruz, Tye, Donnell, Jennings were all either out of the league or practice squad players. The fact you have the audicity to make this post shows how fucking little you know about anything.
Cause tell me what I said about Eli last year. One thing. I would LOVE to hear what I said about Eli's play last year. So you have the guts to call me out - at least get your facts straight because once again, your knowledge off anything is off base. You come across as a know it all cause you know someone that gives you information. Doesnt make you smart whatsoever.
Yes, I have been critical of the personnel. Are you saying am I wrong? Are you saying we have had playoff caliber people on the OL and as skilled people since 2012? You going on record saying that? You defended such shit players like Randle in the past that its downright comical you are going to call me out on this shit.
We have been one of the worst rushing teams and defenseive teams (outside 2016) since 2012. This isnt speculation, this is 100% fact.
So go ahead big mouth - show me ONE thing I said about Eli last year that defended his play during the year last year. Just one. Bet BBI membership you cant.
The pivots are impressive to be sure. Excuse making at its finest.
The latest is this pointing to his 'good' stats. Just one reference to a QBR ranking though shows his stat line is a total fraudulent story. He was much better with qb ranks in the 80s earlier in his career.
I really don't count you in this crowd.
You defend Eli yes, but I get the sense you don't want the entire team structure off the hook for Eli's mess vs endorsing his current play and form.
You also supported drafting Darnold and are suggesting Eli needs to stop starting.
this is materially different than many others (no need to name) that are ridiculing posters for being skeptical. Or suggested like the OP that there is a market for Eli and he can go play for a contender (MAYBE JAX, but doubtful and there is no real market for him).
Or even worse, were part of the fan revolt that led to the doubling down.....
Thank you. As you can see on this thread there are certain posters who care more about being right than root for the Giants.
People here make bold statements all the time whether they are right or wrong. Believe it or not, I still think Eli can play at a pretty high level - but just not on this team. And being that I think we are years away from contending, I wish he would go out on one more high note. Which will be next week hopefully.
Just certain posters who got under my skin when they have been more wrong than others in the past and then have the nerve to call out others. No place for that here at BBI. But they continue to do it on a weekly basis.
But again this is from Rueben Randle’s biggest fan and he never did anything wrong... so we will take it for as it is.
There is no need to beat up on him incessantly I agree.
But these stupid stat line posts or people suggesting he should start another year or two for NYG are just mind blowing at this point.
I cannot even imagine NYG will start him for another 9 games this year. If he is on the roster next year it is a disgrace by this management. They need to spare him at this point and evaluate Lauletta.
But again this is from Rueben Randle’s biggest fan and he never did anything wrong... so we will take it for as it is.
stop making shit up
i said you have been dead wrong on eli- of course randle wasnt great-- no sh$t-- but for years you sat there and made every excuse about every interceptions, every loss, every missed throw- for 5 years-----
the roster and team management has been very poor... no shit.... but you starting threads about moving on from Eli is like a trader stopping out of a horrible trade they have carried and defended for several years.
he has been a problem the whole time as well.
so stop making up shit about what i think and dont think.
if im wrong i am cool with it. be cool with being wrong and stop tripping over yourself to start threads to make it seem like you are ahead of the game on the QB front.
you are not.
There is no need to beat up on him incessantly I agree.
But these stupid stat line posts or people suggesting he should start another year or two for NYG are just mind blowing at this point.
I cannot even imagine NYG will start him for another 9 games this year. If he is on the roster next year it is a disgrace by this management. They need to spare him at this point and evaluate Lauletta.
I agree. If we had drafted a QB, the switch would be made already. I am not a big star guy as how to a QB plays. They should always be used as context. Hell I argued for years that completion percentage can be overrated. I rather Eli be high 50s than high 60s If it meant more down field strikes and TDs.
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Says I haven’t been right about the roster management of this team for years is downright the most laughable thing I’ve read on BBI.
But again this is from Rueben Randle’s biggest fan and he never did anything wrong... so we will take it for as it is.
stop making shit up
i said you have been dead wrong on eli- of course randle wasnt great-- no sh$t-- but for years you sat there and made every excuse about every interceptions, every loss, every missed throw- for 5 years-----
the roster and team management has been very poor... no shit.... but you starting threads about moving on from Eli is like a trader stopping out of a horrible trade they have carried and defended for several years.
he has been a problem the whole time as well.
so stop making up shit about what i think and dont think.
if im wrong i am cool with it. be cool with being wrong and stop tripping over yourself to start threads to make it seem like you are ahead of the game on the QB front.
you are not.
Worry about being an asshat and not an ass. You come across better.
And you weren’t randles biggest fan??? Lol. Just stop now. NO ONE defended him more than you. No one.
im pretty certain im not regarded as an ass, but if i am i am cool with it.
im pretty certain im not regarded as an ass, but if i am i am cool with it.
Hey you brought up what was said “years ago” so I thought you did care.
The fact of the matter is the people who called Eli’s decline were ahead of the curve much like the people who said the roster talent was going down the tubes. So as I said before before your gem of a post... everyone was right. But keep spewing whatever you want...
No, I think it's a good illustration of how statistics can either be used to analyze a situation vs. as a tool to help drive home a point. I don't think these posters are legitimately interpreting the stats, I think they started with a conclusion and they're working backwards.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
But the team keeps on losing.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
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Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
Only 1 of eli’s TDs started out of the end zone. And that was from his RB. So your point isn’t as accurate as you think.
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In comment 14147619 Go Terps said:
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Pointing to Eli's on this shitty team is ridiculous, but it's OK to point to Beckham's and Barkley's? We've been doing it with Beckham for years to prove how good he is, and we're doing it with Barkley now to justify the draft pick.
But the team keeps on losing.
The difference with Beckham and Barkley (or any excellent player) is that the numbers are just complementary to the evident excellence on the field. In Eli's case its grasping at straws. Most of Eli's "stats" are a result of individual outstanding talent being handed a 2.5 yard catch and being tasked to save the day.
Only 1 of eli’s TDs started out of the end zone. And that was from his RB. So your point isn’t as accurate as you think.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
Eli missed some throws as well. But a lot of the reason your example of saving the day comes into play is because it’s the only option. Unless you prefer him to throw into double coverage or take more chances for INTs?
Eli's completing a lot of short passes because the defenses he faces are allowing it with basic coverages and encouraging it with easy pressure against a bad offensive line. They want all those 3 yard passes because they know once the Giants get inside the 20s they can't execute. Every game is an exercise in playing into the defenses' hands. We've been seeing the same book for three or four years.
He'd set the completion percentage record between the 20s because defenses are goading him into taking the checkdown.
Quarterbacks make their money in the red zone. 6 touchdowns, no INTs in the red zone. Good, right?
The Giants are 26th in the NFL in red zone converting (46%) and Eli is the worst version of himself in the most critical area of the field.
The last time the Giants were above 20th place in red zone conversion was 2014. Four years ago.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
I'm not trying to make an argument for Eli here but more so an argument against you're logic. You do realize that you are comparing a stat based on team play vs stats for the individual right? The completion percentage is about the QB. The number of interceptions is about the person throwing the interceptions or the person catching them. A win/loss record is a team based stat.
For example, citing that Eli has 2 SB wins is nice and all but that's more about the whole team. However, Eli's 2 SB MVPs are specific to Eli Manning. Big Ben has 2 SB wins, a 2-1 SB record, and 0 SB MVPs. Vinny Testaverde has none of those things.
"Humiliating title"? I never heard of this title until you made it up. Has anybody else? This is some horseshit that you completely made up. Nobody cares about this. Also, Testaverde's stats "at the conclusion of his career" doesn't mean much by today's standards. Not too mention he had to do that being bounced around to 8 different teams throughout his career. Hell, Jesus himself wouldn't attempt the leap you're attempting.
Vinny Testaverde, to your attempted point, was the QB for the most losses to his team at 126 according to my research (as opposed to your cited 123). Eli Manning is tied with Drew Brees at the 3rd spot with 113. Are you saying Drew Brees sucks too? Brett Favre has the 2nd spot at 123 losses.
Not to mention you are citing a specific number without it's contrast (wins) which is also a fallacy. You are ignoring the other side of the coin to solely support your argument. Vinny Testaverde is at .422 and Eli is at .515. Again, Drew Brees, is at .577. I guess Drew Brees sucks a little less than Eli Manning? Ironically, Archie Manning is the worst at .263 (101 Losses btw).
I will cite the source I found and I honestly don't know the reputation of the site. That's probably because this isn't a stat anyone gives a shit about since it doesn't truly reflect much about the actual player.
Therefore, your entire argument is bullshit.
Lastly, so my feelings on Eli are clear, I don't think he's the problem but he's not the solution at this point in his career either. The giants can do worse. They can also do better. What I don't understand is why, a Giants' fan, feels the need to shit all over his legacy. Why would you not want Eli Manning in the HoF? How can his induction be anything but a positive for the team we all love (I would hope even when we are disappointed in them)?
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=&alltime=1&sort=l - ( New Window )
it’s all in his terrible qbr already factored.
anyone justifying these stats as some good performances is reading a stat line, Only 2013 was worse and quite frankly that team even got on a win streak and scored a bit. This is probably his worst season as a
starter.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
While absolutely remote, that would be great if he went in there and gave them a spark...
People are going to remember the ineptness of the Giants of the last 7 years. But in time, people will remember the Rings and the big games more.
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has there been any rumors of teams interested in Eli?
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
dep, I don't know if this team can pull it off, but since they attempted to get Mack before the season, do you think the LA Rams could make the money work and do a trade and give them a "Foles type" backup QB ready at a moments notice?
Just an outside-the-box idea.
And an apology from me to you for my comment during the game. It was unnecessary.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
Most losses by a Quarterback All Time:
Vinny Testeverde: 126
Brett Favre: 123 (HOF)
Drew Brees: 113 (HOF, is there any doubt?)
Eli Manning: 113
Warren Moon: 108 (HOF)
Dan Marino: 103 (HOF)
Link - ( New Window )
I quoted regular seasons wins and losses. You wanna check again?
I knew people would bring up Favre and Brees. Currently Brees is 40 games above .500, Eli is 3. To think you could not tell the day and night difference between those two career records is insulting your intellegience, so I won’t do that.
Nobody thinks Eli is nearly as HoF worthy as Brees — despite the 2-to-1 ring ratio and only one spot separating them in the all time losing list. Any doubt to THAT, Britt??
And if Eli does get to career loss #124 and solely occupies the top spot in NFL’s all time losing list, to think the media and fans outside of NY— we all know how they view him, fairly or not — would not stick the “losingest QB in NFL history” label to him, is also intellegience insulting. And he will keep that title for decades.
My biggest beef is that against such a damning and important factor, there are still those cocksure about Eli being a Hall of Famer — which the media will decide. In fact, they claim he is a lock, with only uncertainty and regret with him possibly not getting in on first ballot.
First Ballot Hall of Famer, now that’s insulting my intellegience, thus my response.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
Eli has 21 more losses than Rivers and 44 more than Roethlisberger. I guess the longevity only affected Eli's record?
You should probably realize that people who can objectively discuss Eli's shortcomings do not necessarily have an agenda.
And added and exclamation point that it was a joke that Eli could even be thought of as a first ballot HOF'er.
Finally, Gary Meyers, a guy with an actual HOF vote and no real reason to say so, stated he would in fact vote for Eli in his first year of eligibility, despite the losses, and every other knock this fanbase comes up with to try and diminish his case.
Objective.
It's a joke that people think Eli had a HOF career? I mean, really?
If I didn't know better, I'd think I was reading a Cowboys, Eagles, or Skins board.
Actually, I've read some of their boards, he gets more respect there than here.
Just kidding :-)
If I didn't know better, I'd think I was reading a Cowboys, Eagles, or Skins board.
Actually, I've read some of their boards, he gets more respect there than here.
He very well could end up as the losingest QB of all time. That's not opinion nor is it disrespectful, it's a real possibility.
And because Gary Meyers has already offered his endorsement, you think it's fait accompli that Eli is a lock HOFer (and first-ballot at that)? He's not. His HOF case will be fascinating because it really is such a mixed bag - he has some of the most outstanding accomplishments a QB could wish for on his resume, but also has a lot of knocks against him: potentially a career record below .500, led the NFL in interceptions three times, turned the ball over more than any QB during his career, missed the playoffs in 60% of his seasons, failed to win a single game in two thirds of his playoff appearances.
And yet, two-time SB QB, two-time SB MVP. Walter Payton Man of the Year winner. Those are as indelible as his shortcomings. The yards and TDs are somewhat watered down because the entire list will soon be populated by Eli's contemporaries because that's just the way the game is played now. When he's finished, Eli will be a top ten QB statistically, but does anyone truly believe he's one of the ten greatest QBs to ever play the game? Of course not.
I sincerely doubt it will be the open and shut case you think it will be, but I do think it will be interesting. I won't be shocked either way because I tend to think I can see both sides of the argument.
That said, I'm sorry that it bothers you so much to see your hero go out with a whimper instead of a bang, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Father Time remains undefeated.
I just searched Quarterback all time losses. I didn't filter them.
Warren Moon finished his career under .500 and is in the HOF.
Longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else.
You sinking to this to discredit him shows you have an agenda.
Gary Meyers, noted Giants basher and HOF voter, wrote an article a week or so ago that said he would vote for Eli to get in his first year on the ballot, and every subsequent year until he gets in.
Britt, I'll address your points one at a time.
First, I was at Candlestick for the 2012 NFC title game, then at Indy two weeks later for Super Bowl 46, voraciously cheering for the team , mostly when Eli handled the ball.
So I "have an agenda (against Eli)" my ass. YOU YOURSELF are the one who "need to think about the vitriol they post with", as you cautioned above.
Second, the very title of this thread entails Eli's career. So why is it out of line talking about Eli's career losses? And I did not ignore his winnings -- I mentioned that he's now a grand total of 3 games above .500: so in other words, over Eli's entire career it takes him 5 years to win one more game than he loses. Is it vitriol of me to recognize that, and think that's important in judging a player's career?
Third, you eagerly mentioned Favre and Brees being in close proximity to Eli in NFL's all-time losing list, yet ignored their vast superiority over Eli in terms of wins vs. losses, and accordingly their vast superiority over Eli in terms of their HoF credentials. Is that the objectivity you so urged above? You mentioned "longevity is going to bring losses, just like everything else", yet did not mention the much fewer losses suffered by Ben and Rivers, Eli's exact contemporaries and HoF competitors. Is that your objectivity?
Fourth, I said "media outside of NY". The Gary Myers you mentioned is NY based, is he not? And judging from the established fact that Eli has been considered by the media as top 5 among his peers in no more than two of his 15 years, I do think this view that Eli's HoF being a "lock", just "maybe not on first ballot" to be a joke.
Lastly, about Eli's post season wins (and losses). Let me say this: I will fiercely debate against anyone who dares to claim the two titles are illegitimate, or tainted, because there was no controversial calls along the way. Eli and Giants won them fair and square. However, I really do have a very hard time argue against the opinion that those two titles were won with a LOT of luck, catching lightning in a bottle (yes, twice). I know all the "you made your own luck", "luck favors the prepared" cliché, but with each additional loss piling on, with each additional utterly inept performance in today's passing-happy NFL, it just isolates those two titles more and more, furthering the belief that those 8 weeks were such an extreme outlier in his 15-year career, and that those two silver trophies are enough for Eli, no additional accolade (such as HoF) is deserved in the future.
Really, I think people will increasingly treat the two titles as "they just got lucky", such as the Giants recovering 15 of the 21 fumbles in those 8 wins, including all 11 of their own. And contrary to a popular BBI theory, these are not people who have an agenda and biased hatre against poor Eli.
I said this before: Eli and the Giants would not have won either of those two titles if their defense were substituted with ANY of the other 31 NFL defenses that year. The same cannot be said about many Super Bowl champs, including the damn Eagles and Nick Foles last year. And those 8 weeks, as of right now, constitute 95% of Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Eli's supporting casts will go down as below average when it comes to comparing him to his peers. In the last decade he has suffered some of the worst OLs in the league, some of the worst run offenses, and believe it or not - below average defenses.
The stigma that I find funny is when the Giants are good at something - they are REALLY good at it. We had some dominant defenses. We had some dominant run games. And those dominant units get passes for years that they are boarderline pathetic.
But as far as units concern - Eli has had some really piss poor units surrounding him, especially since 2010.
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to becoming the #1 all time in losses as a NFL QB.
He is currently #2 all time, with 112 losses. The #1 has 123 losses.
So unless Eli stops playing soon, he is an absolute lock to get to the all time #1 losing spot. This is a much stronger lock for him than the Hall of Fame admission that so many BBIers here are still so laughingly cocksure about even last week, with the only doubt being "he just may not be get in on first-ballot." Holy crap.
Think about that for a minute: the losingest QB, in the history of the NFL. You think a HoF spot is immortal? This humiliating title, without any peer to share/mitigate it, will truly truly be immortal and follow the owner to the grave.
And who's the current #1 guy on the all-time losing list? Vinny Testaverde, who, at the conclusion of his career, proudly stood as the 6th all-time in passing yards, the 7th all-time in touchdown passes, and the 6th all-time in completions. Ironically, these are exactly the same kinds of career statistics many BBIers repeatedly and excitedly listed as Eli's Hall of Fame credentials.
Okay, now that this minor annoyance are out of the way, let's all go back to focusing on the big picture: continue marveling Eli's projected 4700 yards, 69% completion percentage, and 95 quarterback rating, best in his career!
I'm not trying to make an argument for Eli here but more so an argument against you're logic. You do realize that you are comparing a stat based on team play vs stats for the individual right? The completion percentage is about the QB. The number of interceptions is about the person throwing the interceptions or the person catching them. A win/loss record is a team based stat.
For example, citing that Eli has 2 SB wins is nice and all but that's more about the whole team. However, Eli's 2 SB MVPs are specific to Eli Manning. Big Ben has 2 SB wins, a 2-1 SB record, and 0 SB MVPs. Vinny Testaverde has none of those things.
"Humiliating title"? I never heard of this title until you made it up. Has anybody else? This is some horseshit that you completely made up. Nobody cares about this. Also, Testaverde's stats "at the conclusion of his career" doesn't mean much by today's standards. Not too mention he had to do that being bounced around to 8 different teams throughout his career. Hell, Jesus himself wouldn't attempt the leap you're attempting.
Vinny Testaverde, to your attempted point, was the QB for the most losses to his team at 126 according to my research (as opposed to your cited 123). Eli Manning is tied with Drew Brees at the 3rd spot with 113. Are you saying Drew Brees sucks too? Brett Favre has the 2nd spot at 123 losses.
Not to mention you are citing a specific number without it's contrast (wins) which is also a fallacy. You are ignoring the other side of the coin to solely support your argument. Vinny Testaverde is at .422 and Eli is at .515. Again, Drew Brees, is at .577. I guess Drew Brees sucks a little less than Eli Manning? Ironically, Archie Manning is the worst at .263 (101 Losses btw).
I will cite the source I found and I honestly don't know the reputation of the site. That's probably because this isn't a stat anyone gives a shit about since it doesn't truly reflect much about the actual player.
Therefore, your entire argument is bullshit.
Lastly, so my feelings on Eli are clear, I don't think he's the problem but he's not the solution at this point in his career either. The giants can do worse. They can also do better. What I don't understand is why, a Giants' fan, feels the need to shit all over his legacy. Why would you not want Eli Manning in the HoF? How can his induction be anything but a positive for the team we all love (I would hope even when we are disappointed in them)? https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html?type=&alltime=1&sort=l - ( New Window )
REALLY great post
it’s all in his terrible qbr already factored.
anyone justifying these stats as some good performances is reading a stat line, Only 2013 was worse and quite frankly that team even got on a win streak and scored a bit. This is probably his worst season as a
starter.
If the game was still in doubt it's not garbage time. Hell someone even tried to say the 3rd quarter was garbage time, that is not what garbage time is. Garbage time is throwing late in a game in which a come back is nearly impossible. Outside of Dallas, which I'll give you, none of those games have been like that. Just because a team isn't blitzing or putting 8 in the box does not mean it's garbage time, in face it's more of an indictment against our line, the fact that they can get pressure with only four or five men.
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In comment 14148391 Jimmy Googs said:
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has there been any rumors of teams interested in Eli?
Only team who I can see remotely interested is Jax. And even then I see it as a stretch. If Bortles sucks it up again this week - you may see them look around. Maybe a Fitzpatrick. Maybe Eli then.
But I cant see a contending team trading for him unless there is a major injury this week.
dep, I don't know if this team can pull it off, but since they attempted to get Mack before the season, do you think the LA Rams could make the money work and do a trade and give them a "Foles type" backup QB ready at a moments notice?
Just an outside-the-box idea.
He's not going to give up his "no trade clause" to be a back up.