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QB Watch: Justin Herbert and Daniel Jones (for you, Chop)

Anakim : 10/27/2018 10:46 am
Duke (Daniel Jones) at Pittsburgh - 3:30 PM on the Yes Network

Oregon (Justin Herbert) at Arizona - 10:30 PM on ESPN




This is my first time seeing Daniel Jones so let's see what he's all about.


Let's see if Herbert and the Oregon offense can rebound from last week's loss against Wazzu.
Jones  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 10/27/2018 11:29 am : link
Interesting article Jones. Didnt realize David Cutcliffe is the coach.
2019 NFL Draft: Daniel Jones and Rich Gannon are Clones - ( New Window )
Watching Jones in 2 games  
longlive#10 : 10/27/2018 12:18 pm : link
I was very very impressed, he does a phenomenal job under pressure. Makes some wow plays but also makes some really questionable decisions, though in fairness his blocking is piss poor and so are his receivers.

For the hell of it I went and watched Jake Fromm to see what all the hype was about and if he'd be worth waiting till next year for, only checked out one game but wasn't blown away, he has good touch but not velocity, though his accuracy seemed erratic when he had to make big boy throws, his comp% was buffed by a whole lot of horizontal passing, and unlike Jones his supporting cast was amazing. Guys were making plays all over the place and he was able to chill in the pocket with basically motionless feet, all day and then some, but he did a good job going through progressions and making the right decision. After watching Herbert it's nice to see guys who's eyes actually move. Oh and also to his credit the one time a rusher did actually get through he stood in there until the last second and delivered a nice ball. Not exactly sure to what to make of him yet, he's not as naturally gifted as these other guys but his brain seems further ahead.

At first glance I see a little bit of Tom Brady with less arm talent, no special physical traits that really jump out at you but always seems to make the right decision with the football. I'd like to see how he moves and handles real pressure, he didn't have to budge from his platform in the game I saw. Based on what I saw he's probably a safer pick than a Jones or Herbert but they might have more superstar potential.

It may not be a popular opinion but like all 3 better than any of the QBs last year.

Rosen I liked but was the ultimate safe but limited upside type of prospect. My biggest problem with him is he's a douche bag and not presidential enough to be the face of a franchise (Eli Manning is now the standard on how I expect a QB to carry himself)

Josh Allen I liked for his all world gifts but he obviously needed/needs a lot of work.

Sam Darnold I did not love, he had solid tools and I like agressiveness but he's a down right psycho with the football, he'll chuck 180 fade away jumpers like he thinks he's Steph Curry. A little hero ball here and there is great, but he's just down right reckless and that's hard to extract from someone's DNA.

Baker Mayfield I did not like at all (and I also thought was a total douche), but so far he's proving me wrong and has played the best of the bunch.

Lamar Jackson.. well, don't make me laugh. Not a QB.
DJ misses his first throw  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 3:47 pm : link
Connects on his second intermediate throw
And...technical difficulties  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 3:49 pm : link
.
Nice little scramble there  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 3:51 pm : link
Took a big hit, but got the first down
Lots of quick short and intermediate throws  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 4:00 pm : link
.
Wow  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 4:01 pm : link
Wacky play, but that guy should've caught the ball in the end zone
His WRs  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 4:02 pm : link
Can't catch the football.
Dukes WRs an TE  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 4:02 pm : link
May have the worst hands ever
Duke recievers  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 4:15 pm : link
Can't catch a cold outside of Gray
That was a throw there  
micky : 10/27/2018 4:18 pm : link
.
Absolute Beaut  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 4:19 pm : link
From Jones on that Fade. Thats top level touch.
Jones is showing accuracy  
Rjanyg : 10/27/2018 4:19 pm : link
His TEcshould have caught that ball. His feet look pretty good.
First time  
cokeduplt : 10/27/2018 4:20 pm : link
Watching Jones and I like what I see so far.
Ive only seen him play one quarter in my life  
kennyd : 10/27/2018 4:22 pm : link
But I will say he looks pretty damn impressive. By far the best player on the field (not saying much, I know). Moves really well, has made several very good throws. Ill be paying attention to the next few games for sure.
Wow  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 4:25 pm : link
Joness TEAMMATES created a guard to protect his surgically repaired collarbone so he could play. Thats pretty amazing
He continues to impress  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 10/27/2018 4:27 pm : link
only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time
Fantastic  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 4:29 pm : link
fade by Jones. Beautiful.
RE: He continues to impress  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14151466 You'reMyBoyBlue!! said:
Quote:
only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time


He has a strong arm, so no that won't be a knock on him at all
Throws a dart on the run  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 4:49 pm : link
Super impressed by Jones, he's showing everything this game. There's a lot to like.
Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 4:54 pm : link
I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head
RE: He continues to impress  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 4:57 pm : link
In comment 14151466 You'reMyBoyBlue!! said:
Quote:
only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time


I think the only knocks are the competition he faces (ACC is fine, but he has yet to really stand out) and his receivers being incapable of consistency. His receivers look 3 times better today than they have looked in the past two weeks.
Bad turnover...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 4:58 pm : link
Looks like the ball slipped out. Physical error, not a mentalor chronic one
Like Jones Skillset  
youngd74 : 10/27/2018 5:09 pm : link
But No on School and Number alone. Too many bad memories of another former Duke QB.
RE: Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
Strahan91 : 10/27/2018 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head

This is the first time Ive watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network?
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14151495 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head


This is the first time Ive watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network? Link - ( New Window )


Reading now, will let you know. As of my brief time watching him I have not thought arm strength to be an issue. But will read your link and comment.
Duke defense  
XBRONX : 10/27/2018 5:45 pm : link
is trash
RE: RE: Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14151495 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head


This is the first time Ive watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network? Link - ( New Window )


I didnt like that article at all after reading it. Mostly because the section on velo was misleading. The first clip, it was Jones' 3rd read and almost a check down....I dont know if he was actually trying to complete it. The second the DB has terrific coverage on the receivr and Jones put it in a place where the DB had to make a great play in order to break up the pass. The third was just a bad pass.

I havent finished reading the WHOLE thing yet, but that review screams "Im trying to find something wrong with this guy." For all of those three throws, I have seen several times where Jones not only hums the ball outside, but does so on target. That article doesnt highlighr how well he executes the quick digs, slants and outs. He always puts the ball around waist level.

You also have to keep in mind that he has to wait for a lot of these guys to kivk open.
My  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 5:50 pm : link
initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.
4TDs  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 5:50 pm : link
For Jones. Along with a number of beautiful passes. 11 straight completions right now.
RE: Duke defense  
charlito : 10/27/2018 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14151518 XBRONX said:
Quote:
is trash


And Pittsburgh. Can't even judge Jones on this game.
Jones is close to perfect  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 5:51 pm : link
On timing routes.
RE: My  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:
Quote:
initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.
Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s
RE: My  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:
Quote:
initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.


I think he is stronger and more mobile than you give him credit for. He always falls forward and he hasnt had to rush much today but he can get around defenders if he needs to.

Is this your first up close watch of him Acid?
Dont see it  
Archer : 10/27/2018 5:57 pm : link
Jones has some physical tools but he looks stiff and he is not quick
While he has a strong arm his release is deliberate

He plays like he has been over coached
Tell you what,  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 5:59 pm : link
Darrin Hall for Pitt looks like the perfect change of pace guy for the giants. 5'11, 235? Sledgehammer with some lateral.
Jones size/mobility  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 6:01 pm : link
He kind of reminds me of younger Big Ben the way he moves inside and around the pocket and scrambling. He's big, he has wheels but he's not quick or the smoothest athlete. That is fine though, it served Ben well early in his career.
RE: RE: My  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14151528 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:


Quote:


initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.

Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s


I see Jones as a horizontal, not vertical, runner. As a QB who can extend plays outside the pocket, but mostly behind the LOS, with occasional short scrambles for first downs. He also has a generally thin build, is gangly, and not elusive. He'd probably get hurt running vertically in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: My  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14151538 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14151528 GoDeep13 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:


Quote:


initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.

Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s



I see Jones as a horizontal, not vertical, runner. As a QB who can extend plays outside the pocket, but mostly behind the LOS, with occasional short scrambles for first downs. He also has a generally thin build, is gangly, and not elusive. He'd probably get hurt running vertically in the NFL.


Lol, hes the same size as Eli!
RE: Jones size/mobility  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14151536 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He kind of reminds me of younger Big Ben the way he moves inside and around the pocket and scrambling. He's big, he has wheels but he's not quick or the smoothest athlete. That is fine though, it served Ben well early in his career.


I tend to agree with this. I am not sure if he will be as creative in the scramble as Ben...and hes not 250. But he reminds me a lot of Ben too.
Our current line should have zero  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2018 6:05 pm : link
impact on what QB we invest in. Its never going to work anyway if the OL doesnt improve and thats a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think hed be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).
I dont know if that was just the play call  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:07 pm : link
Or a panicked throw, but that was disappointing on 3rd.

I will say that he hasnt shown that killer instinct to convert plays like that. Not sure if Herbert has that either.
I don't understand the comment either  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 6:08 pm : link
He's not Deshaun Watson but he has +mobility for a prospect. We're not running the option.
chopper  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 6:10 pm : link
Ben wasn't always 250 either haha. He's a little smaller than Ben coming out but he moves pretty similar to how Ben did before injuries, age and bloat got a hold of him.
Giants  
charlito : 10/27/2018 6:11 pm : link
Will pass. Won't get drafted in the top 10.
RE: Our current line should have zero  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14151542 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
impact on what QB we invest in. Its never going to work anyway if the OL doesnt improve and thats a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think hed be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).


I totally agree. But if you honestly dont think the Giants would sign the very best FAs and go OL round 2 and or 3, I think people are underestimating the resolve of this franchise. Mara definitely sees it, DG is known for it and Shurmur certainly sees it.

We 180'd this line in 04 didnt we? We signed Ohara, drafted Snee in 04. Drafted Diehl in 03. Signed Mac in 05.


Get the fucking QB.
Heres a big moment for Jones.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:18 pm : link
Gotta go down the field and get a TD here. Pitt's D is no slouch....they gave ND all kinds of grief a few weeks ago.

But no excuses.
He's  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:23 pm : link
not as thick as Big Ben.

I like him, but right now, he's not worth a top 10 pick IMO. But it's early. I want to see more. I also acknowledge that it looks like his receivers drop too many passes. Saw him against UVA, GT, and part of Northwestern.

There is no defense in this game.
I hate this playcalling...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:23 pm : link
It doesnt help Jones cause.


But it might be due to Duke's deficit as far as receivers.
The play calls  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:24 pm : link
For that drive were horrendous. Just vile.
RE: He's  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14151564 AcidTest said:
Quote:
not as thick as Big Ben.

I like him, but right now, he's not worth a top 10 pick IMO. But it's early. I want to see more. I also acknowledge that it looks like his receivers drop too many passes. Saw him against UVA, GT, and part of Northwestern.

There is no defense in this game.


The Ben comparison is strictly in how he moves. There is a lot of similarities there. I'm talking about how he moves in the pocket, how he adjusts when protection breaks down and when he is asked to go outside.

I agree. This is my second game watching him. Once again I'm looking at the Clemson game before I really form an opinion. I like what I see and can see him being in the round 1 convo though. We'll see.
Just looked at this box score...  
bw in dc : 10/27/2018 6:29 pm : link
Pitt has 450+ yards rushing.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:32 pm : link
was a ridiculous hurdle by the Pitt RB, but it was unfortunately nullified by a penalty.
I dont think his OC is helping him  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:32 pm : link
In this one either.
RE: Just looked at this box score...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14151571 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Pitt has 450+ yards rushing.


Yea, the Duke defense might as well have me playing DT.
Third  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:34 pm : link
and goal from the 30.
May end up  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 6:35 pm : link
Getting a 2 minute drill to win the game from Jones here. Situational snaps are important.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:35 pm : link
was a screwball of a FG.

Mini test for Jones. Let's see if he can lead a game winning drive.
RE: Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head


You're welcome lol
Would love to see a Pitt score  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:37 pm : link
And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:40 pm : link
miss was on Jones. Third down.
Obvious  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:41 pm : link
holding is obvious.
Bad throw by Jones  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:42 pm : link
And no blocking by the line...not what I wanted to see.
He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 6:42 pm : link
But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.
RE: That  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14151587 AcidTest said:
Quote:
miss was on Jones. Third down.


Def was. Not by TOO much. Lots of above avg pro receivers make that catch, but a poor pass to say the least.

Again, doesnt sway me either way, tho I would have loved to see him will a conversion out of that.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:44 pm : link
was a fortuitous bounce.
RE: He's played a nice game  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:
Quote:
But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.


It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.
RE: RE: That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14151594 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151587 AcidTest said:


Quote:


miss was on Jones. Third down.



Def was. Not by TOO much. Lots of above avg pro receivers make that catch, but a poor pass to say the least.

Again, doesnt sway me either way, tho I would have loved to see him will a conversion out of that.


Doesn't sway me either. It's just one throw.
I know nothing about college football but after reading all these  
Blue21 : 10/27/2018 6:46 pm : link
comments I wouldn't touch him or Hebert. Better hope Lauletta has something.
They  
charlito : 10/27/2018 6:47 pm : link
Should run it at the 40 for a touchdown.
RE: Would love to see a Pitt score  
cokeduplt : 10/27/2018 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14151584 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG



Carr trade would be a disaster. Id rather suck another year
TD  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:49 pm : link
Pitt. Lucky. Should have kicked the FG with just 13 seconds left and no timeouts.
love that  
charlito : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
Call because it worked.
RE: RE: Would love to see a Pitt score  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14151604 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14151584 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG




Carr trade would be a disaster. Id rather suck another year


Don't want Carr either.
RE: RE: Our current line should have zero  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14151555 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151542 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


impact on what QB we invest in. Its never going to work anyway if the OL doesnt improve and thats a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think hed be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).



I totally agree. But if you honestly dont think the Giants would sign the very best FAs and go OL round 2 and or 3, I think people are underestimating the resolve of this franchise. Mara definitely sees it, DG is known for it and Shurmur certainly sees it.

We 180'd this line in 04 didnt we? We signed Ohara, drafted Snee in 04. Drafted Diehl in 03. Signed Mac in 05.


Get the fucking QB.


Yeah I dont doubt that. Im just saying that they cant ding a QB for not being mobile enough because of the current OLine. This isnt the line that will get us to the playoffs, it needs and upgrade regardless. They also shouldnt want a mobile QB over prototype QB or pick they lesser player just because they can run better.

I dont think that would happen but some posters seem to think the line and the QB are a package deal and they have to absolutely 100% be separate projects.
Jones is a nice QB, but  
Emil : 10/27/2018 6:55 pm : link
Would be a major reach where the Giants will likely end up drafting in round one. Hes got upside but if the Giants have a top 5 pick they need to take a sure thing. If Herbert opts to stay in school its Bosa or best OL available.

Of course, the Giants could trade down in round one, and then take Jones, but this would be an unusual move for Gettleman, given his history.
While this was not a BAD  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:57 pm : link
performance by Jones for those of you just tuned in to see him, it was still not indicative of what I think he can do at the pro level. I think he is neck and neck with Herbert which might actually scream to me go BPA insteadof QB. Maybe trade for Carr. Maybe trade for the Raiders 1st in 2020.


But Jones, while playing well, did not set himself apart from the pack this week. I also think that Clemson tears his head off when they play.
RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.


In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.
Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
Mad Mike : 10/27/2018 7:00 pm : link
*
Also have Finley coming up  
Sy'56 : 10/27/2018 7:03 pm : link
against Syracuse. A lot to like there.
RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
kennyd : 10/27/2018 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.


Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14151620 kennyd said:
Quote:
In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.



Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.


I'm not suggesting the Pitt QB is worthy of anything. Only that Jones had two drives to go down and stick one in the end zone at the end of the game and threw slant passes behind his guys.

As I said, such is life. I was letting that disappointment cloud his performance the rest of the game. He played very well, I thought. Nice throws; could throw on the run. For those who suggest he has no mobility, I have no idea what they are seeing, as Duke calls Jones's number on a bunch of designed run plays. Jones is a quality QB who belongs in the Round 1 discussion.
Can't  
charlito : 10/27/2018 7:24 pm : link
Believe Herbert is the only QB worthy of a top 10 pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14151624 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151620 kennyd said:


Quote:


In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.



Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.



I'm not suggesting the Pitt QB is worthy of anything. Only that Jones had two drives to go down and stick one in the end zone at the end of the game and threw slant passes behind his guys.

As I said, such is life. I was letting that disappointment cloud his performance the rest of the game. He played very well, I thought. Nice throws; could throw on the run. For those who suggest he has no mobility, I have no idea what they are seeing, as Duke calls Jones's number on a bunch of designed run plays. Jones is a quality QB who belongs in the Round 1 discussion.


Thats fair. Totally. And yea, he looked ordinary. Butno worse than Herbert has. If he stays this course, he is mid to 1st. If we could trade down to like 9 and pick up a couple of day 2s that would be nice.
He's got size  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 7:27 pm : link
He can run. He has pocket presence. He's decisive. He shows excellent touch on his throws. He threw a beautiful over the shoulder throw on that early touchdown. That's a bigtime NFL throw there. I saw him throw a rope to a WR on the sideline while on the run. He displayed just about every tool you need to be successful in the NFL in just that first half alone.

We're way early here, he could be a Day 3 guy when all is said and done. However, there isn't anything in his game that precludes him from going Top 5. He's got tools. Saying he's a reach there is extremely premature. We'll see how he plays the rest of the year, that will be a bigger indicator IMO. The loaded deck game is always a great test, I thought he played well last week vs. UVA without any help from his OL or WRs. If he does the same vs. Clemson in a Death Valley night game, he absolutely should be in that Top QB discussion.
RE: He's got size  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14151636 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He can run. He has pocket presence. He's decisive. He shows excellent touch on his throws. He threw a beautiful over the shoulder throw on that early touchdown. That's a bigtime NFL throw there. I saw him throw a rope to a WR on the sideline while on the run. He displayed just about every tool you need to be successful in the NFL in just that first half alone.

We're way early here, he could be a Day 3 guy when all is said and done. However, there isn't anything in his game that precludes him from going Top 5. He's got tools. Saying he's a reach there is extremely premature. We'll see how he plays the rest of the year, that will be a bigger indicator IMO. The loaded deck game is always a great test, I thought he played well last week vs. UVA without any help from his OL or WRs. If he does the same vs. Clemson in a Death Valley night game, he absolutely should be in that Top QB discussion.


Exactly my thinking. He needs "that play", "that drive", "that game" where he truly stands out. Where he says "fuck this, we are winning" and he does all the things necessary from him to put Duke in a position to win. He hasn't had this yet and other than GT, hasnt come very close.

Hes still my top choice at QB.
RE: Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
Ira : 10/27/2018 8:40 pm : link
In comment 14151618 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
*


Also, a Giants caliber o-line.
RE: RE: Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 9:16 pm : link
In comment 14151677 Ira said:
Quote:
In comment 14151618 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


*



Also, a Giants caliber o-line.


Sadly, Duke provides Jonesy with more time honestly. Lol
Time to ball out, Herbert  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 10:01 pm : link
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily

Giants have scouts at tonights Oregon-Arizona game; this is the fourth time the Giants have been on-hand for an Oregon game in addition to attending their practices.
RE: Also have Finley coming up  
Emil : 10/27/2018 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14151619 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
against Syracuse. A lot to like there.


Liking what I see from Finley. I need to make a point to watch more of him. Big, athletic, throws a nice ball.
RE: Time to ball out, Herbert  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:22 pm : link
In comment 14151726 Anakim said:
Quote:
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily

Giants have scouts at tonights Oregon-Arizona game; this is the fourth time the Giants have been on-hand for an Oregon game in addition to attending their practices.


Anak, I would love to annoint the kid our crown jewel of pissing away this year. I have said repeatedly that he has more talent than anybody in this year's AND last year's guys. Yes, more than Darnold. He just has been a manager at this point than a killer at QB.

If he shows up and does the Mariota/Wentz (I dont see that) thing many say about him, I know that I wont have to worry about underthrowing Beckham.

He needs to show more touch on deep balls. He also needs to be more patient in the pocket. Show me that and Im on board. He is quicker and has a stronger arm than Jones.
Herbert  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:48 pm : link
Just made an awgully bad decision there on 3rd and 2... Had a guy wide open at the 1st down marker on a crossing route, felt a little pressure and immediately checked down to a receiver for a 1 yard loss. Very reminiscent of what Eli does all the time now.


Not a good start at all. That was all on Herbert. Arizona is a team he should pad stats against.
Bad read, bad throw by Herbert...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:54 pm : link
2 series and he has looked like a freshman back up on both.

Just saying.
Herbert has looked  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 11:18 pm : link
Horrible at the start of this game. He's made some terrible decisions, especially that checkdown on third after getting a small amount of pressure. Need him to pick it up and show me more. As I wrote this he just made a terrible read and threw a pick... smh
Awful pick by Herbert  
dep026 : 10/27/2018 11:18 pm : link
He has good movement and a strong arm... but he hasnt looked good whatsoever.
Ive not once been impressed by Herbert this year  
The_Boss : 10/27/2018 11:19 pm : link
As Ive said since this past draft season, this is not an impressive class in the least.
Herbert not looking good  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 11:24 pm : link
So far. Still plenty of game. But man does this look like a Giants game this season. Only difference is the QB moves but still misses guys.
We cant force this pick  
Josh in the City : 10/27/2018 11:26 pm : link
Herbert has been terrible. Really dont think hes a franchise caliber QB. Passing on all the QBs in last years draft keeps looking dumber and dumber.
RE: Awful pick by Herbert  
Josh in the City : 10/27/2018 11:27 pm : link
In comment 14151756 dep026 said:
Quote:
He has good movement and a strong arm... but he hasnt looked good whatsoever.

Strong arm but all his passes float. Rarely see him throw a laser or a pass on a rope. Really unimpressed with his past two games.
Wait until 2020. Just like I said the day after the draft.  
The_Boss : 10/27/2018 11:30 pm : link
Tua and Fromm are better prospects in my opinion.
Hearing the the Giants have had scouts at his games  
Milton : 10/27/2018 11:34 pm : link
Doesn't really tell me a lot without knowing how it compares with what is normal operating procedure. Aren't all teams that can expect to be drafting in the top ten and all teams that see QB as a need scouting him heavily? If I'm Buffalo, Arizona, or San Fran--three teams who just last off-season committed to multi-year deals with young QBs--I would be heavily scouting him so I'm quite certain of his value when trade offers potentially arrive.

And you don't want to be the team to pass on Dan Marino because you already had Marc Wilson. And speaking of the Raiders, they're another team that already has a young QB on a multi-year deal, but would be foolish not to be heavily scouting Herbert.

There are maybe only a handful of teams in the NFL who wouldn't have reason to be heavily scouting Herbert (i.e., the Packers, who won't be drafting in the top ten and for whom there is no logic in trading into the top ten to get him). Regardless of how management feels about Eli and Lauletta, it would be negligent not to be heavily scouting every QB that could be worthy of a top ten pick. And I would feel the same way if I were a fan of the Bills, Cardinals, Niners, and Raiders.
Looks  
charlito : 10/27/2018 11:37 pm : link
Like Giants will select Bosa.
The Raiders can have Herbert  
The_Boss : 10/27/2018 11:45 pm : link
I want no part of any of these guys. Trade down if possible.
Herbert looks plain awful  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 11:45 pm : link
I have no reason to pull for Jones based on what I see. But Daniel Jones has looked far better than this.

Im going to wait to see a few more weeks, but trading a 2nd for Carr might be the best move they might have.
Much better possession  
dep026 : 10/27/2018 11:48 pm : link
For Herbert. Good stuff.
RE: Herbert looks plain awful  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 11:52 pm : link
In comment 14151781 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
I have no reason to pull for Jones based on what I see. But Daniel Jones has looked far better than this.

Im going to wait to see a few more weeks, but trading a 2nd for Carr might be the best move they might have.


First, Herbert has not looked good tonight, but it is clear the ENTIRE Oregon team did not show up to begin with. And the last drive was much, much better.

Second, on what planet is trading an extremely high second round pick for Derek Carr - an overpriced QB himself - a smart thing for a rebuilding team? I have no idea what your obsession is with Carr, but I want no part of that guy.
I'm coming around on Herbert  
Go Terps : 10/27/2018 11:53 pm : link
He hasn't gone into a shell despite the slow start. Seems composed.

Didn't seem to give a shit after he scored the conversion too. A grown up.
Herbert is really this:  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 12:23 am : link
a project.

Certainly has interesting skills but looks more unrefined than refined. If Im him, I stay in school to get more reps and experience. If he comes out, like I expect he will because the money will be catnip, I dont touch him at #1. Im not even sure hes top ten material at this point. Hes been struggling to keep his completion % above 60%. Something is really off the last month...

Hell, Gardner Minshew looks like the best QB in the Pac12 right now.

Im sticking with Will Grier. Kid is more accurate and makes more plays. Hope his metrics check out come Combine time...
Im not going to hold any punches,  
chopperhatch : 10/28/2018 12:43 am : link
But most of you sound absolutely stupid in the way you participate on these threads. You dont cite any individual flaws with empirical evidence supporting them. Its just "Errrrrp, Herbert looks like shit tonight and Jones didnt win, lets wait for Tua. Or lets draft Bosa.

No fucking substance. No reasons why Herbert "looks bad" or anything substantive as to why "Jones is not my type." Nobody mentioning Finley's poop game or that Lock went 23-29 with 4 tuddies and no picks albeit against memphis. Everybody comes on here to comment and they dont even support their assertion with anything that can ne construed as a real argument.

This fucking place has become one perpetual gameday thread.
RE: Herbert is really this:  
chopperhatch : 10/28/2018 12:48 am : link
In comment 14151801 bw in dc said:
Quote:
a project.

Certainly has interesting skills but looks more unrefined than refined. If Im him, I stay in school to get more reps and experience. If he comes out, like I expect he will because the money will be catnip, I dont touch him at #1. Im not even sure hes top ten material at this point. Hes been struggling to keep his completion % above 60%. Something is really off the last month...

Hell, Gardner Minshew looks like the best QB in the Pac12 right now.

Im sticking with Will Grier. Kid is more accurate and makes more plays. Hope his metrics check out come Combine time...


This is at least a stance. I disagree with it because honestly I think Herbert might be the 3rd or 4th QB taken next year as opposed to almost certainly being the 1st overall pick thise year, top 5 the least and you dont pass that up for "reps."

bw, I disagree with you a lot, but at least you brought it.

Sorry to rant, but the most interesting thing to talk about on this board is prospective successors to Eli amd people just say things withput actually believing what they say.

/rant
chopperhatch...  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 1:19 am : link
Long way to go, really, to see how this fleshes out for this QB crop. I see a lot of different skills sets and raw talent, but not a lot consistency game to game. Ive sort of latched onto that this year as a differentiator - who at least shows that reliable production week over week.

At times I think this could be like the 2011 draft - too many QB reaches in round one. That year: Locker, Ponder, and Gabbert (after Newton).

I definitely like Herberts size and arm, especially the various ways he can deliver the ball, but hes been going the wrong way lately. Hope he bounces out of it.



Herbert looks absolutely amateur in this one  
chopperhatch : 10/28/2018 1:24 am : link
though. Its been my thing about him since the season started. Everybody talks about how young he is, and he looks like he is an overgrown 8th grader in this game.


Daniel Jones is far and away a better prospect than he is in my opinion. But Im really starting to warm to the idea of trading for Derek Carr.
Don't force the qb pick this year  
youngd74 : 10/28/2018 1:28 am : link
Build the line first. Take the Alabama tackle. Build from the inside out.
RE: chopperhatch...  
chopperhatch : 10/28/2018 1:29 am : link
In comment 14151818 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Long way to go, really, to see how this fleshes out for this QB crop. I see a lot of different skills sets and raw talent, but not a lot consistency game to game. Ive sort of latched onto that this year as a differentiator - who at least shows that reliable production week over week.

At times I think this could be like the 2011 draft - too many QB reaches in round one. That year: Locker, Ponder, and Gabbert (after Newton).

I definitely like Herberts size and arm, especially the various ways he can deliver the ball, but hes been going the wrong way lately. Hope he bounces out of it.




Well, in tha5 regard I can SORTA understand your affinity for Grier. Whether he throws picks or not, the guy puts up HUGE numbers. I still dont want him anywhere near the Giants.

Like I said....maybe some swap of 1sts and other draft picks for Derek Carr... Say, their Bears first amd Cowboys first and Carr for our first, 2nd?


For me Jones is the only one who looks the part. He didnt have the close to the game we wanted but he is better than all the other guys.
.  
Banks : 10/28/2018 1:31 am : link
I'm never betting on or against Arizona again. Never know how they are gonna come out to play.
RE: Don't force the qb pick this year  
chopperhatch : 10/28/2018 1:33 am : link
In comment 14151821 youngd74 said:
Quote:
Build the line first. Take the Alabama tackle. Build from the inside out.


Oregon's OC shoukd be fired. He is awful....or Herbert is not going thru progs...


Herbert DOES lock on to receivers. I am very quickly souring on him as a prospect in general. He pooks like Derek Anderson.
Extremely concerning performance from Herbert  
Anakim : 10/28/2018 5:08 am : link
He probably should stay in school and develop. He looked skittish, his accuracy was all over the place, he had no touch on any of his passes, he locked on to guys, which tipped off the defenders who were reading his eyes...


Very disappointing.
RE: Im not going to hold any punches,  
Anakim : 10/28/2018 5:14 am : link
In comment 14151809 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
But most of you sound absolutely stupid in the way you participate on these threads. You dont cite any individual flaws with empirical evidence supporting them. Its just "Errrrrp, Herbert looks like shit tonight and Jones didnt win, lets wait for Tua. Or lets draft Bosa.

No fucking substance. No reasons why Herbert "looks bad" or anything substantive as to why "Jones is not my type." Nobody mentioning Finley's poop game or that Lock went 23-29 with 4 tuddies and no picks albeit against memphis. Everybody comes on here to comment and they dont even support their assertion with anything that can ne construed as a real argument.

This fucking place has become one perpetual gameday thread.


It's a Josh special
RE: Wait until 2020. Just like I said the day after the draft.  
micky : 10/28/2018 6:47 am : link
In comment 14151768 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Tua and Fromm are better prospects in my opinion.


And neither of them may be there when time to pick. And mortgaging the farm to move up for either wouldnt be wise.
RE: RE: Wait until 2020. Just like I said the day after the draft.  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 14151832 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 14151768 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Tua and Fromm are better prospects in my opinion.



And neither of them may be there when time to pick. And mortgaging the farm to move up for either wouldnt be wise.


Youre kidding, right? Fromm?

Nice college player. But hes at best a game manager.

There is nothing special about anything he does physically. Nothing. Hes 62, maybe 220, decent speed, medium arm, medium zip.

Intangibles? Sure. Heady kid, poised, and focused. But there needs to be a helluva lot more development on the physical side before Id even draft him in the first five rounds.
I think what we are starting to see...  
dep026 : 10/28/2018 8:56 am : link
Is what the draft experts predicted... which is a lot of uncertainty with all these QBs. Some have the skills you want in a QB but also show flaws that make you question whether or not they have it.

Herbert at times looks like he could step in immediately and be a franchise guy but he goes through prolonged stretches where he just doesnt look ready to enter the draft. Last night was a very very bad game for him. Not all to be end all but Arizona is quite poor on defense.

Grier is just overhyped at this point. Forces a ton of balls, very indecisive in the pocket. He is surrounded by top tier talent and plays shit defenses all year. He will make throws that will wow you... but I just dont see it with the kid.

Jones seems to be the prototypical QB you want. But this kid has basically came out of nowhere to now being regarded as a top QB. Is that more of his part or the part the other QBs are just play inconsistent?

The thing that sucks for the Giants is we need a QB in a draft where a franchise guy just might not be there.
To me, and maybe Sy says the same down the road  
The_Boss : 10/28/2018 9:03 am : link
Herbert isnt as good as Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at this point last year. And if thats the case, since DG didnt like any of those guys, he cant take Herbert. Grab one of the OTs, Oliver, Bosa, or the best guy from Clemsons DL and wait for Tua and Fromm.
Build the lines & start Lauletta in 2019  
Sean : 10/28/2018 9:27 am : link
.
RE: Extremely concerning performance from Herbert  
Giants34 : 10/28/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 14151828 Anakim said:
Quote:
He probably should stay in school and develop. He looked skittish, his accuracy was all over the place, he had no touch on any of his passes, he locked on to guys, which tipped off the defenders who were reading his eyes...


Very disappointing.


Herbert had a terrible performance. There is no way around that. But there is no benefit to him staying in school, because that team's scheme is awful. He had a bad day, but that doesn't ruin the type of prospect I think he is. It certainly takes some of the shine off of the guy - and the Herbert Haters on here loved every second of it - but we'll have to see how he bounces back.
Im getting more and more intrigued with...  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 9:57 am : link
Eric Dungey. Really growing on me. Liked how hes gotten better and grown with that program.

Three of his next four games are outdoors - Wake, ND, and BC. Those will be good tests, especially against ND, who has a terrific D.
There are no Herbert haters  
dep026 : 10/28/2018 10:00 am : link
on this board...lol

Jesus christ.
RE: RE: Herbert looks plain awful  
FStubbs : 10/28/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 14151792 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151781 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


I have no reason to pull for Jones based on what I see. But Daniel Jones has looked far better than this.

Im going to wait to see a few more weeks, but trading a 2nd for Carr might be the best move they might have.



First, Herbert has not looked good tonight, but it is clear the ENTIRE Oregon team did not show up to begin with. And the last drive was much, much better.

Second, on what planet is trading an extremely high second round pick for Derek Carr - an overpriced QB himself - a smart thing for a rebuilding team? I have no idea what your obsession is with Carr, but I want no part of that guy.


This.

Age aside there's no difference in my mind between Eli and Carr, except at one point in time Eli actually got it done - so if the choice is Eli or Carr, I'd rather just keep Eli.
Is everyone still certain that Justin Herbert is the best  
Ira : 10/28/2018 10:10 am : link
quarterback in this draft?
RE: To me, and maybe Sy says the same down the road  
cokeduplt : 10/28/2018 11:10 am : link
In comment 14151873 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Herbert isnt as good as Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at this point last year. And if thats the case, since DG didnt like any of those guys, he cant take Herbert. Grab one of the OTs, Oliver, Bosa, or the best guy from Clemsons DL and wait for Tua and Fromm.



All those guys except for mayfield had downright awful games last year. You cant really go off of one game.
RE: Is everyone still certain that Justin Herbert is the best  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 14151930 Ira said:
Quote:
quarterback in this draft?


No, I never have been. Ive been all in on Grier. I think hes the best pocket passer and playmaker. I really enjoy his poise and command with that offense.

Now, I think Herbert likely has the best physical tools, but that barely fills half the equation in the pros. When you start to struggle with Pac12 defense, and they are very poor this year, something is off. Way off.
I am certainly not a Herbert expert, I've only seen him 3 times now,  
PatersonPlank : 10/28/2018 11:38 am : link
but he really hasn't looked too good in any of the games. AZ's D is not good and they did nothing. I get that their OL is not good, but he looks pretty inaccurate to me.

I like Grier and the Duke kid better, but I'm not really sure I like any of them.
RE: RE: To me, and maybe Sy says the same down the road  
The_Boss : 10/28/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 14152000 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14151873 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Herbert isnt as good as Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were at this point last year. And if thats the case, since DG didnt like any of those guys, he cant take Herbert. Grab one of the OTs, Oliver, Bosa, or the best guy from Clemsons DL and wait for Tua and Fromm.




All those guys except for mayfield had downright awful games last year. You cant really go off of one game.


It's not just last night for me. I've watched a bunch of Herbert this fall and I haven't been impressed by him one bit.
He had a bad game.  
Toastt34 : 10/28/2018 1:02 pm : link
To say, he hasnt been impressive all year, means you havent watched enough of him or just have an opinion that wont be changed no matter how he performs.
RE: He had a bad game.  
bw in dc : 10/28/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14152215 Toastt34 said:
Quote:
To say, he hasnt been impressive all year, means you havent watched enough of him or just have an opinion that wont be changed no matter how he performs.


Herbert wasnt that impressive in the two prior games against Washington or Washington State. So Im not sure what you mean by all year.
people  
MookGiants : 10/28/2018 2:19 pm : link
talked about how all the QB's last year had warts and weaknesses. I would take at least 3 QB's from last year over any of the QB's this year. There rarely are QB's who don't have warts, even most of the top QB's taken each year have some sort of weakness. Some people just so desperately wanted a running back last year so they convinced themselves that none of the QB's were worth selecting #2.

No running back is ever worth selecting #2 and the Giants still did that. Barkley has been terrific, but still not anywhere near valuable enough.
the guy  
MookGiants : 10/28/2018 2:20 pm : link
that looks like he has no warts to me is Lawrence from Clemson. Tua will be a big time QB coming out after next year but Lawrence looks like the best QB prospect in a long, long time to me. I don't see anything resembling a weakness and that's in just his true freshman season. That year will be the year to be horrible. If DG and John Mara continue to make horrible decisions the Giants just might be bad enough that season to get Lawrence
RE: the guy  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14152847 MookGiants said:
Quote:
that looks like he has no warts to me is Lawrence from Clemson. Tua will be a big time QB coming out after next year but Lawrence looks like the best QB prospect in a long, long time to me. I don't see anything resembling a weakness and that's in just his true freshman season. That year will be the year to be horrible. If DG and John Mara continue to make horrible decisions the Giants just might be bad enough that season to get Lawrence


I was thinking this yesterday. The ball shoots out of his hand - he's very accurate and he has good pocket presence.

I don't see many weaknesses at all.

Tua is the real deal, too. It sucks that this is happening this year and not next. But I think we'll still be awful next year anyway.

I just hope we don't take the wrong guy in the next draft and then have it cost us a shot at one of the other QB's down the road.

Tua or Lawrence would be a huge get for us - but we'll have to keep being this bad in order to have a chance at either. Which - is certainly not out of the question.
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Anakim : 10/29/2018 3:07 pm : link
Ryan Thorburn


@rgduckfootball

Cristobal said WR Dillon Mitchell and QB Justin Herbert are in concussion protocol. TE Kano Dillon, DL Austin Faoliu and LB Kaulana Apelu expected back
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