QB Watch: Justin Herbert and Daniel Jones (for you, Chop)

Interesting article Jones. Didnt realize David Cutcliffe is the coach.
2019 NFL Draft: Daniel Jones and Rich Gannon are Clones - ( New Window )

I was very very impressed, he does a phenomenal job under pressure. Makes some wow plays but also makes some really questionable decisions, though in fairness his blocking is piss poor and so are his receivers.

For the hell of it I went and watched Jake Fromm to see what all the hype was about and if he'd be worth waiting till next year for, only checked out one game but wasn't blown away, he has good touch but not velocity, though his accuracy seemed erratic when he had to make big boy throws, his comp% was buffed by a whole lot of horizontal passing, and unlike Jones his supporting cast was amazing. Guys were making plays all over the place and he was able to chill in the pocket with basically motionless feet, all day and then some, but he did a good job going through progressions and making the right decision. After watching Herbert it's nice to see guys who's eyes actually move. Oh and also to his credit the one time a rusher did actually get through he stood in there until the last second and delivered a nice ball. Not exactly sure to what to make of him yet, he's not as naturally gifted as these other guys but his brain seems further ahead.

At first glance I see a little bit of Tom Brady with less arm talent, no special physical traits that really jump out at you but always seems to make the right decision with the football. I'd like to see how he moves and handles real pressure, he didn't have to budge from his platform in the game I saw. Based on what I saw he's probably a safer pick than a Jones or Herbert but they might have more superstar potential.

It may not be a popular opinion but like all 3 better than any of the QBs last year.

Rosen I liked but was the ultimate safe but limited upside type of prospect. My biggest problem with him is he's a douche bag and not presidential enough to be the face of a franchise (Eli Manning is now the standard on how I expect a QB to carry himself)

Josh Allen I liked for his all world gifts but he obviously needed/needs a lot of work.

Sam Darnold I did not love, he had solid tools and I like agressiveness but he's a down right psycho with the football, he'll chuck 180 fade away jumpers like he thinks he's Steph Curry. A little hero ball here and there is great, but he's just down right reckless and that's hard to extract from someone's DNA.

Baker Mayfield I did not like at all (and I also thought was a total douche), but so far he's proving me wrong and has played the best of the bunch.

Lamar Jackson.. well, don't make me laugh. Not a QB.

Connects on his second intermediate throw

.

Took a big hit, but got the first down

.

Wacky play, but that guy should've caught the ball in the end zone

Can't catch the football.

May have the worst hands ever

Can't catch a cold outside of Gray

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From Jones on that Fade. That’s top level touch.

His TEcshould have caught that ball. His feet look pretty good.

Watching Jones and I like what I see so far.

But I will say he looks pretty damn impressive. By far the best player on the field (not saying much, I know). Moves really well, has made several very good throws. I’ll be paying attention to the next few games for sure.

Jones’s TEAMMATES created a guard to protect his surgically repaired collarbone so he could play. That’s pretty amazing

only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time

fade by Jones. Beautiful.

In comment 14151466 You'reMyBoyBlue!! said:

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only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time

He has a strong arm, so no that won't be a knock on him at all

Super impressed by Jones, he's showing everything this game. There's a lot to like.

I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head

In comment 14151466 You'reMyBoyBlue!! said:

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only thing Ive seen keeping him from an elite level QB prospect is (a bit) of a lack of arm strength. It's not bad but I think it'll be his biggest knock come draft time

I think the only knocks are the competition he faces (ACC is fine, but he has yet to really stand out) and his receivers being incapable of consistency. His receivers look 3 times better today than they have looked in the past two weeks.

Looks like the ball slipped out. Physical error, not a mentalor chronic one

But No on School and Number alone. Too many bad memories of another former Duke QB.

In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:

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I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor. Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head

This is the first time I’ve watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network?
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14151495 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said: Quote: I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor. Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head This is the first time I’ve watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network? Link - ( New Window )

Reading now, will let you know. As of my brief time watching him I have not thought arm strength to be an issue. But will read your link and comment.

is trash

In comment 14151495 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said: Quote: I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor. Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head This is the first time I’ve watched Jones live but what do you think about this criticism regarding velocity from Draft Network? Link - ( New Window )

I didnt like that article at all after reading it. Mostly because the section on velo was misleading. The first clip, it was Jones' 3rd read and almost a check down....I dont know if he was actually trying to complete it. The second the DB has terrific coverage on the receivr and Jones put it in a place where the DB had to make a great play in order to break up the pass. The third was just a bad pass.

I havent finished reading the WHOLE thing yet, but that review screams "Im trying to find something wrong with this guy." For all of those three throws, I have seen several times where Jones not only hums the ball outside, but does so on target. That article doesnt highlighr how well he executes the quick digs, slants and outs. He always puts the ball around waist level.

You also have to keep in mind that he has to wait for a lot of these guys to kivk open.

initial impression after seeing Jones a few times:

Positives.

Prototypical size for a QB.
Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time.
Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it.
Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open.
Reads defenses well.
Generally compact and natural throwing motion.

Negatives.

Good, but not great arm.
Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL.
Gangly, with little lower body strength.
Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does.

Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.

For Jones. Along with a number of beautiful passes. 11 straight completions right now.

In comment 14151518 XBRONX said:

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is trash

And Pittsburgh. Can't even judge Jones on this game.

On timing routes.

In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:

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initial impression after seeing Jones a few times: Positives. Prototypical size for a QB. Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time. Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it. Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open. Reads defenses well. Generally compact and natural throwing motion. Negatives. Good, but not great arm. Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL. Gangly, with little lower body strength. Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does. Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.

Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s

In comment 14151524 AcidTest said:

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initial impression after seeing Jones a few times: Positives. Prototypical size for a QB. Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time. Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it. Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open. Reads defenses well. Generally compact and natural throwing motion. Negatives. Good, but not great arm. Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL. Gangly, with little lower body strength. Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does. Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen.

I think he is stronger and more mobile than you give him credit for. He always falls forward and he hasnt had to rush much today but he can get around defenders if he needs to.

Is this your first up close watch of him Acid?

Jones has some physical tools but he looks stiff and he is not quick
While he has a strong arm his release is deliberate

He plays like he has been over coached

Darrin Hall for Pitt looks like the perfect change of pace guy for the giants. 5'11, 235? Sledgehammer with some lateral.

He kind of reminds me of younger Big Ben the way he moves inside and around the pocket and scrambling. He's big, he has wheels but he's not quick or the smoothest athlete. That is fine though, it served Ben well early in his career.

In comment 14151528 GoDeep13 said:

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In comment 14151524 AcidTest said: Quote: initial impression after seeing Jones a few times: Positives. Prototypical size for a QB. Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time. Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it. Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open. Reads defenses well. Generally compact and natural throwing motion. Negatives. Good, but not great arm. Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL. Gangly, with little lower body strength. Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does. Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen. Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s

I see Jones as a horizontal, not vertical, runner. As a QB who can extend plays outside the pocket, but mostly behind the LOS, with occasional short scrambles for first downs. He also has a generally thin build, is gangly, and not elusive. He'd probably get hurt running vertically in the NFL.

In comment 14151538 AcidTest said:

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In comment 14151528 GoDeep13 said: Quote: In comment 14151524 AcidTest said: Quote: initial impression after seeing Jones a few times: Positives. Prototypical size for a QB. Excellent pocket presence. Nimble feet. Can scramble to buy extra time. Keeps his eyes downfield. Feels the rush, but is not fazed by it. Accurate at all levels, including on deep throws. Has a deft touch on fades. Anticipation thrower. Throws receivers open. Reads defenses well. Generally compact and natural throwing motion. Negatives. Good, but not great arm. Not really a threat to run, and not elusive. More of a classic drop back pocket passer, which could be a problem with our OL. Gangly, with little lower body strength. Bounces a lot before he throws, which requires him to reset for a split second before he does. Comparison: Taller version of Josh Rosen. Jones is plenty athletic. Has over 1000 rushing yards in his college career. Will probably time in the 4.7s I see Jones as a horizontal, not vertical, runner. As a QB who can extend plays outside the pocket, but mostly behind the LOS, with occasional short scrambles for first downs. He also has a generally thin build, is gangly, and not elusive. He'd probably get hurt running vertically in the NFL.

Lol, hes the same size as Eli!

In comment 14151536 AcesUp said:

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He kind of reminds me of younger Big Ben the way he moves inside and around the pocket and scrambling. He's big, he has wheels but he's not quick or the smoothest athlete. That is fine though, it served Ben well early in his career.

I tend to agree with this. I am not sure if he will be as creative in the scramble as Ben...and hes not 250. But he reminds me a lot of Ben too.

impact on what QB we invest in. It’s never going to work anyway if the OL doesn’t improve and that’s a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think he’d be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).

Or a panicked throw, but that was disappointing on 3rd.

I will say that he hasnt shown that killer instinct to convert plays like that. Not sure if Herbert has that either.

He's not Deshaun Watson but he has +mobility for a prospect. We're not running the option.

Ben wasn't always 250 either haha. He's a little smaller than Ben coming out but he moves pretty similar to how Ben did before injuries, age and bloat got a hold of him.

Will pass. Won't get drafted in the top 10.

In comment 14151542 UConn4523 said:

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impact on what QB we invest in. It’s never going to work anyway if the OL doesn’t improve and that’s a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think he’d be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).

I totally agree. But if you honestly dont think the Giants would sign the very best FAs and go OL round 2 and or 3, I think people are underestimating the resolve of this franchise. Mara definitely sees it, DG is known for it and Shurmur certainly sees it.

We 180'd this line in 04 didnt we? We signed Ohara, drafted Snee in 04. Drafted Diehl in 03. Signed Mac in 05.


Get the fucking QB.

Gotta go down the field and get a TD here. Pitt's D is no slouch....they gave ND all kinds of grief a few weeks ago.

But no excuses.

not as thick as Big Ben.

I like him, but right now, he's not worth a top 10 pick IMO. But it's early. I want to see more. I also acknowledge that it looks like his receivers drop too many passes. Saw him against UVA, GT, and part of Northwestern.

There is no defense in this game.

It doesnt help Jones cause.


But it might be due to Duke's deficit as far as receivers.

For that drive were horrendous. Just vile.