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QB Watch: Justin Herbert and Daniel Jones (for you, Chop)

Anakim : 10/27/2018 10:46 am
Duke (Daniel Jones) at Pittsburgh - 3:30 PM on the Yes Network

Oregon (Justin Herbert) at Arizona - 10:30 PM on ESPN




This is my first time seeing Daniel Jones so let's see what he's all about.


Let's see if Herbert and the Oregon offense can rebound from last week's loss against Wazzu.
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RE: He's  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14151564 AcidTest said:
Quote:
not as thick as Big Ben.

I like him, but right now, he's not worth a top 10 pick IMO. But it's early. I want to see more. I also acknowledge that it looks like his receivers drop too many passes. Saw him against UVA, GT, and part of Northwestern.

There is no defense in this game.


The Ben comparison is strictly in how he moves. There is a lot of similarities there. I'm talking about how he moves in the pocket, how he adjusts when protection breaks down and when he is asked to go outside.

I agree. This is my second game watching him. Once again I'm looking at the Clemson game before I really form an opinion. I like what I see and can see him being in the round 1 convo though. We'll see.
Just looked at this box score...  
bw in dc : 10/27/2018 6:29 pm : link
Pitt has 450+ yards rushing.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:32 pm : link
was a ridiculous hurdle by the Pitt RB, but it was unfortunately nullified by a penalty.
I dont think his OC is helping him  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:32 pm : link
In this one either.
RE: Just looked at this box score...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14151571 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Pitt has 450+ yards rushing.


Yea, the Duke defense might as well have me playing DT.
Third  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:34 pm : link
and goal from the 30.
May end up  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 6:35 pm : link
Getting a 2 minute drill to win the game from Jones here. Situational snaps are important.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:35 pm : link
was a screwball of a FG.

Mini test for Jones. Let's see if he can lead a game winning drive.
RE: Thanks for the thread nod Anak.  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14151482 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
I have to be honest that tyrik and GoDeep pointed him out before I caught a look at him. I think he males quicker decisions, looks less frantic than Herbert when the play breaks down a bit, delivers timing balls on time with plenty of velo, runs well as well as throws well on the run, throws a beyter deep ball than Herbert...and then theres the coaching factor.


Smart, big, mobile, has a plenty good arm and a head


You're welcome lol
Would love to see a Pitt score  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:37 pm : link
And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:40 pm : link
miss was on Jones. Third down.
Obvious  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:41 pm : link
holding is obvious.
Bad throw by Jones  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:42 pm : link
And no blocking by the line...not what I wanted to see.
He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 6:42 pm : link
But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.
RE: That  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14151587 AcidTest said:
Quote:
miss was on Jones. Third down.


Def was. Not by TOO much. Lots of above avg pro receivers make that catch, but a poor pass to say the least.

Again, doesnt sway me either way, tho I would have loved to see him will a conversion out of that.
That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:44 pm : link
was a fortuitous bounce.
RE: He's played a nice game  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:
Quote:
But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.


It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.
RE: RE: That  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14151594 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151587 AcidTest said:


Quote:


miss was on Jones. Third down.



Def was. Not by TOO much. Lots of above avg pro receivers make that catch, but a poor pass to say the least.

Again, doesnt sway me either way, tho I would have loved to see him will a conversion out of that.


Doesn't sway me either. It's just one throw.
I know nothing about college football but after reading all these  
Blue21 : 10/27/2018 6:46 pm : link
comments I wouldn't touch him or Hebert. Better hope Lauletta has something.
They  
charlito : 10/27/2018 6:47 pm : link
Should run it at the 40 for a touchdown.
RE: Would love to see a Pitt score  
cokeduplt : 10/27/2018 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14151584 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG



Carr trade would be a disaster. I’d rather suck another year
TD  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:49 pm : link
Pitt. Lucky. Should have kicked the FG with just 13 seconds left and no timeouts.
love that  
charlito : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
Call because it worked.
RE: RE: Would love to see a Pitt score  
AcidTest : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14151604 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14151584 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


And then the OC to turn Jones loose to see what hes got.

Im not in love with the guy by any means. I DO think he throws a better long ball than Herbert. I DO think he gets rid of the ball quicker andmore accurately on the short throws. I DO think he is better built for the pro game and I think he is better coached.

He needs to make some plays now. Or at least put some players in spots to make them.

Im almost resigned to make an offer on trading for Carr so we can take BPA at this point because neither Jones nor Herbert have come up BIG




Carr trade would be a disaster. I’d rather suck another year


Don't want Carr either.
RE: RE: Our current line should have zero  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14151555 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151542 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


impact on what QB we invest in. It’s never going to work anyway if the OL doesn’t improve and that’s a completely separate process. Sure, more mobile will increase success but long term we need to improve the line even if we had a Mahomes (even though I think he’d be a massive upgrade and would make the line look better than it is).



I totally agree. But if you honestly dont think the Giants would sign the very best FAs and go OL round 2 and or 3, I think people are underestimating the resolve of this franchise. Mara definitely sees it, DG is known for it and Shurmur certainly sees it.

We 180'd this line in 04 didnt we? We signed Ohara, drafted Snee in 04. Drafted Diehl in 03. Signed Mac in 05.


Get the fucking QB.


Yeah I don’t doubt that. I’m just saying that they can’t ding a QB for not being mobile enough because of the current OLine. This isn’t the line that will get us to the playoffs, it needs and upgrade regardless. They also shouldnt want a mobile QB over prototype QB or pick they lesser player just because they can run better.

I don’t think that would happen but some posters seem to think the line and the QB are a package deal and they have to absolutely 100% be separate projects.
Jones is a nice QB, but  
Emil : 10/27/2018 6:55 pm : link
Would be a major reach where the Giants will likely end up drafting in round one. He’s got upside but if the Giants have a top 5 pick they need to take a sure thing. If Herbert opts to stay in school it’s Bosa or best OL available.

Of course, the Giants could trade down in round one, and then take Jones, but this would be an unusual move for Gettleman, given his history.
While this was not a BAD  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 6:57 pm : link
performance by Jones for those of you just tuned in to see him, it was still not indicative of what I think he can do at the pro level. I think he is neck and neck with Herbert which might actually scream to me go BPA insteadof QB. Maybe trade for Carr. Maybe trade for the Raiders 1st in 2020.


But Jones, while playing well, did not set himself apart from the pack this week. I also think that Clemson tears his head off when they play.
RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.


In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.
Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
Mad Mike : 10/27/2018 7:00 pm : link
*
Also have Finley coming up  
Sy'56 : 10/27/2018 7:03 pm : link
against Syracuse. A lot to like there.
RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
kennyd : 10/27/2018 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.


Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
Giants34 : 10/27/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14151620 kennyd said:
Quote:
In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.



Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.


I'm not suggesting the Pitt QB is worthy of anything. Only that Jones had two drives to go down and stick one in the end zone at the end of the game and threw slant passes behind his guys.

As I said, such is life. I was letting that disappointment cloud his performance the rest of the game. He played very well, I thought. Nice throws; could throw on the run. For those who suggest he has no mobility, I have no idea what they are seeing, as Duke calls Jones's number on a bunch of designed run plays. Jones is a quality QB who belongs in the Round 1 discussion.
Can't  
charlito : 10/27/2018 7:24 pm : link
Believe Herbert is the only QB worthy of a top 10 pick.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He's played a nice game  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14151624 Giants34 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151620 kennyd said:


Quote:


In comment 14151616 Giants34 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151597 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 14151592 Giants34 said:


Quote:


But he has missed WRs on the last two drives. Same pass - slants - and thrown way behind them. Can't miss on those throws.



It wasnt WAY behind them....stop it. But a little disappointing none the less.



In any event, down the stretch there was one QB that threw passes to win the game...the Pitt QB.

But a couple errant throws do not define a QB, particularly in rainy conditions in an away game. I like him as a prospect, and he's certainly a first round QB prospect. But he's got to make those throws on a consistent basis to be successful.



Come on, the kid from Pitt completed 3 passes in a be entire second half. What he did has nothing to do with any kind of Jones discussion. Pit ran for 9000 yards against Duke.



I'm not suggesting the Pitt QB is worthy of anything. Only that Jones had two drives to go down and stick one in the end zone at the end of the game and threw slant passes behind his guys.

As I said, such is life. I was letting that disappointment cloud his performance the rest of the game. He played very well, I thought. Nice throws; could throw on the run. For those who suggest he has no mobility, I have no idea what they are seeing, as Duke calls Jones's number on a bunch of designed run plays. Jones is a quality QB who belongs in the Round 1 discussion.


Thats fair. Totally. And yea, he looked ordinary. Butno worse than Herbert has. If he stays this course, he is mid to 1st. If we could trade down to like 9 and pick up a couple of day 2s that would be nice.
He's got size  
AcesUp : 10/27/2018 7:27 pm : link
He can run. He has pocket presence. He's decisive. He shows excellent touch on his throws. He threw a beautiful over the shoulder throw on that early touchdown. That's a bigtime NFL throw there. I saw him throw a rope to a WR on the sideline while on the run. He displayed just about every tool you need to be successful in the NFL in just that first half alone.

We're way early here, he could be a Day 3 guy when all is said and done. However, there isn't anything in his game that precludes him from going Top 5. He's got tools. Saying he's a reach there is extremely premature. We'll see how he plays the rest of the year, that will be a bigger indicator IMO. The loaded deck game is always a great test, I thought he played well last week vs. UVA without any help from his OL or WRs. If he does the same vs. Clemson in a Death Valley night game, he absolutely should be in that Top QB discussion.
RE: He's got size  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14151636 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He can run. He has pocket presence. He's decisive. He shows excellent touch on his throws. He threw a beautiful over the shoulder throw on that early touchdown. That's a bigtime NFL throw there. I saw him throw a rope to a WR on the sideline while on the run. He displayed just about every tool you need to be successful in the NFL in just that first half alone.

We're way early here, he could be a Day 3 guy when all is said and done. However, there isn't anything in his game that precludes him from going Top 5. He's got tools. Saying he's a reach there is extremely premature. We'll see how he plays the rest of the year, that will be a bigger indicator IMO. The loaded deck game is always a great test, I thought he played well last week vs. UVA without any help from his OL or WRs. If he does the same vs. Clemson in a Death Valley night game, he absolutely should be in that Top QB discussion.


Exactly my thinking. He needs "that play", "that drive", "that game" where he truly stands out. Where he says "fuck this, we are winning" and he does all the things necessary from him to put Duke in a position to win. He hasn't had this yet and other than GT, hasnt come very close.

Hes still my top choice at QB.
RE: Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
Ira : 10/27/2018 8:40 pm : link
In comment 14151618 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
*


Also, a Giants caliber o-line.
RE: RE: Well, Jones should be used to having a Giants caliber D.  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 9:16 pm : link
In comment 14151677 Ira said:
Quote:
In comment 14151618 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


*



Also, a Giants caliber o-line.


Sadly, Duke provides Jonesy with more time honestly. Lol
Time to ball out, Herbert  
Anakim : 10/27/2018 10:01 pm : link
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily

Giants have scouts at tonight’s Oregon-Arizona game; this is the fourth time the Giants have been on-hand for an Oregon game in addition to attending their practices.
RE: Also have Finley coming up  
Emil : 10/27/2018 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14151619 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
against Syracuse. A lot to like there.


Liking what I see from Finley. I need to make a point to watch more of him. Big, athletic, throws a nice ball.
RE: Time to ball out, Herbert  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:22 pm : link
In comment 14151726 Anakim said:
Quote:
Giants Daily
@NYGDaily

Giants have scouts at tonight’s Oregon-Arizona game; this is the fourth time the Giants have been on-hand for an Oregon game in addition to attending their practices.


Anak, I would love to annoint the kid our crown jewel of pissing away this year. I have said repeatedly that he has more talent than anybody in this year's AND last year's guys. Yes, more than Darnold. He just has been a manager at this point than a killer at QB.

If he shows up and does the Mariota/Wentz (I dont see that) thing many say about him, I know that I wont have to worry about underthrowing Beckham.

He needs to show more touch on deep balls. He also needs to be more patient in the pocket. Show me that and Im on board. He is quicker and has a stronger arm than Jones.
Herbert  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:48 pm : link
Just made an awgully bad decision there on 3rd and 2... Had a guy wide open at the 1st down marker on a crossing route, felt a little pressure and immediately checked down to a receiver for a 1 yard loss. Very reminiscent of what Eli does all the time now.


Not a good start at all. That was all on Herbert. Arizona is a team he should pad stats against.
Bad read, bad throw by Herbert...  
chopperhatch : 10/27/2018 10:54 pm : link
2 series and he has looked like a freshman back up on both.

Just saying.
Herbert has looked  
tyrik13 : 10/27/2018 11:18 pm : link
Horrible at the start of this game. He's made some terrible decisions, especially that checkdown on third after getting a small amount of pressure. Need him to pick it up and show me more. As I wrote this he just made a terrible read and threw a pick... smh
Awful pick by Herbert  
dep026 : 10/27/2018 11:18 pm : link
He has good movement and a strong arm... but he hasn’t looked good whatsoever.
I’ve not once been impressed by Herbert this year  
The_Boss : 10/27/2018 11:19 pm : link
As I’ve said since this past draft season, this is not an impressive class in the least.
Herbert not looking good  
GoDeep13 : 10/27/2018 11:24 pm : link
So far. Still plenty of game. But man does this look like a Giants game this season. Only difference is the QB moves but still misses guys.
We can’t force this pick  
Josh in the City : 10/27/2018 11:26 pm : link
Herbert has been terrible. Really don’t think hes a franchise caliber QB. Passing on all the QBs in last year’s draft keeps looking dumber and dumber.
RE: Awful pick by Herbert  
Josh in the City : 10/27/2018 11:27 pm : link
In comment 14151756 dep026 said:
Quote:
He has good movement and a strong arm... but he hasn’t looked good whatsoever.

Strong arm but all his passes float. Rarely see him throw a laser or a pass on a rope. Really unimpressed with his past two games.
Wait until 2020. Just like I said the day after the draft.  
The_Boss : 10/27/2018 11:30 pm : link
Tua and Fromm are better prospects in my opinion.
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