for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: The Mets and Brodie Van Wagenen have agreed to terms

larryflower37 : 10/27/2018 11:06 am
According to Joel sherman

Will be interesting to see if there is push back by the league or players association
Tweet - ( New Window )
Not a fan of this hire  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:11 am : link
Hes too cozy with Jeff and Omar and Ricco. This was an in the family/box hire not an out of the box hire.

No organizational experience. No experience with scouting or player development.

Terrible.
I read that he might take a day or two to finalize his agent business  
Ira : 10/27/2018 11:12 am : link
and speak to the players he represented.
RE: I read that he might take a day or two to finalize his agent business  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:15 am : link
In comment 14151186 Ira said:
Quote:
and speak to the players he represented.


I hope DeGrom turns around and hires Boras.
really tough to judge this move until we know more  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 11:15 am : link
his success is going to be very directly tied to the organization that's built around him. If it's just a continuation of status quo with Omar, Ricco, etc and nothing is fundamentally changed then it's hard to not surmise BVW is essentially just a new figure head.
RE: I read that he might take a day or two to finalize his agent business  
CromartiesKid21 : 10/27/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 14151186 Ira said:
Quote:
and speak to the players he represented.


How does an agent become a GM?
RE: really tough to judge this move until we know more  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 14151189 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
his success is going to be very directly tied to the organization that's built around him. If it's just a continuation of status quo with Omar, Ricco, etc and nothing is fundamentally changed then it's hard to not surmise BVW is essentially just a new figure head.


Thats exactly what this is. A new puppet dressed in fancier clothes with better con man skills.
reports are calling him "head of baseball ops" so some1 else may be gm  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 11:22 am : link
if it's omar or ricco it's hard to not think this entire process is a farce, but if they give BVW some autonomy to reshape the FO that will go a long way towards understanding why he's the right guy vs figure head to just do what the wilpons wanted to do in the first place.
I  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2018 11:23 am : link
like Bob Klapisch but his take was one of the worst I've ever seen. He trashed him a "bad" Cespedes contract... Um... at the time his job was to get Cespedes paid... not care about the Mets. It's absurd. Like such a bad take I'm embarrassed.
RE: reports are calling him  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 14151198 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
if it's omar or ricco it's hard to not think this entire process is a farce, but if they give BVW some autonomy to reshape the FO that will go a long way towards understanding why he's the right guy vs figure head to just do what the wilpons wanted to do in the first place.


He got an interview in the first place because hes golfing buddies with Jeff and is chummy with Ricco and Omar. This is a new brand of tomfoolery by the Mets. This is 100 percent going to fail.
Like most I wanted Chaim Bloom but Cmicks...  
Drewcon40 : 10/27/2018 11:27 am : link
...made some solid points yesterday and am warming to the idea. As a Mets fan for many years, I certainly am skeptical but I am intrigued by this hire. I am more excited by Van Wagenen than Melvin.
RE: I  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:27 am : link
In comment 14151199 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
like Bob Klapisch but his take was one of the worst I've ever seen. He trashed him a "bad" Cespedes contract... Um... at the time his job was to get Cespedes paid... not care about the Mets. It's absurd. Like such a bad take I'm embarrassed.


And now his job is to discipline Cespedes and figure out how to improve the team despite having that albatross he negotiated!!! What a comedy this franchise is. Its like they make it their mission to find new ways to push their fan base to insanity and to root for other teams.

I dont know how people cant see the blatant conflicts and farcical nature of this.
1 would think he has some assurances of autonomy to give up his job  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 11:28 am : link
As an agent fully aware of how cheap the org is, literally publicly asking the mets for a JDG trade a few months ago, I can't imagine this guy decided to leave a great career he built for himself to just eat shit from the wilpons. But who knows. He could just be naive to not know what he doesn't know - which in this case is practically everything about running an MLB organization.
I  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2018 11:28 am : link
wanted Bloom but c'mon... this guy is beyond rich, he's young, you really think he wants to simply be the face of a bad team because he's friend with Jeff?
RE: Like most I wanted Chaim Bloom but Cmicks...  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 14151207 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
...made some solid points yesterday and am warming to the idea. As a Mets fan for many years, I certainly am skeptical but I am intrigued by this hire. I am more excited by Van Wagenen than Melvin.


Its intriguing only because its a taboo move and has failed every other time in MLB.

Theres no real legitimacy to this whatsoever.
RE: I  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 14151211 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wanted Bloom but c'mon... this guy is beyond rich, he's young, you really think he wants to simply be the face of a bad team because he's friend with Jeff?


Hes a young rich guy who wants to play with a fancy new toy. Hes unqualified and only got the job because hes chummy buddies with Jeff and Omar. He is totally unqualified.
RE: RE: I  
larryflower37 : 10/27/2018 11:36 am : link
In comment 14151217 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151211 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


wanted Bloom but c'mon... this guy is beyond rich, he's young, you really think he wants to simply be the face of a bad team because he's friend with Jeff?



Hes a young rich guy who wants to play with a fancy new toy. Hes unqualified and only got the job because hes chummy buddies with Jeff and Omar. He is totally unqualified.


Supposedly money was the sticking point and the Mets need to pay up.
Sounds like he will have more control than just GM.
Wear multiple hats to justify the money
Seems like a typical dumb Wilpons move  
Vanzetti : 10/27/2018 11:38 am : link
Hire a sports agent with zero experience.

But let's give him a chance and see how he does. I would have gone with Bloom.
RE: RE: I  
Drewcon40 : 10/27/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 14151217 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Hes a young rich guy who wants to play with a fancy new toy. Hes unqualified and only got the job because hes chummy buddies with Jeff and Omar. He is totally unqualified.


Sammo85 - this is intended to have a friendly tone. You obviously do not like the hire.

You made several references of his hire as a result of nepotism between BVW, the Wilpons, and Omar. Is that an assumption or do you know this as fact? (Again, Sammo, I am not calling you out, we have posters plugged in sometimes.)

Top 20 of the Mets top 50 polling  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2018 11:39 am : link
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"

If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.

*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible

1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) AA 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
9) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
10) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
11) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
12) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
13) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
14) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
15) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
16) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
17) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
18) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
19) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
20) Ross Adolph (OF) 6/25-24%, run-off with Nido 18/25-72%
RE: RE: RE: I  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 14151220 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151217 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151211 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


wanted Bloom but c'mon... this guy is beyond rich, he's young, you really think he wants to simply be the face of a bad team because he's friend with Jeff?



Hes a young rich guy who wants to play with a fancy new toy. Hes unqualified and only got the job because hes chummy buddies with Jeff and Omar. He is totally unqualified.



Supposedly money was the sticking point and the Mets need to pay up.
Sounds like he will have more control than just GM.
Wear multiple hats to justify the money


LOL. Makes the move even worse. Wilpons can then say, look at how much more we had to have paid to get a new GM!!!!
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 14151211 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wanted Bloom but c'mon... this guy is beyond rich, he's young, you really think he wants to simply be the face of a bad team because he's friend with Jeff?


Of course not consciously - but it's obvious and acknowledged that BVW will have to cede more control to people around him since he lacks practical experience (vs. Bloom or Melvin). I think it's a very valid concern to wonder if BVW was more willing than others to install Wilpon people like Omar in bigger roles since he himself has less experience than they do in a lot of functions. Maybe this is alarmist but I think it seems pretty likely that Omar or Ricco could actually take the GM title under BVW.
RE: RE: RE: I  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 14151227 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151217 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


Hes a young rich guy who wants to play with a fancy new toy. Hes unqualified and only got the job because hes chummy buddies with Jeff and Omar. He is totally unqualified.



Sammo85 - this is intended to have a friendly tone. You obviously do not like the hire.

You made several references of his hire as a result of nepotism between BVW, the Wilpons, and Omar. Is that an assumption or do you know this as fact? (Again, Sammo, I am not calling you out, we have posters plugged in sometimes.)


The GM search was not real. BVW was Jeffs pick all along and the search was just for show to the fans and to placate Fred for having a process.
Mets fans  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 11:45 am : link
always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.
I actually don't mind Omar in a helping role  
Vanzetti : 10/27/2018 11:50 am : link
He has a great eye for talent. You just can't let him run things. Omar as an assistant is a big plus IMO, especially with his Latino connections.
RE: Mets fans  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.


Why should we given his background, the front office mess now in place and the history of this ownership?
RE: Mets fans  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.


Come on. The target of Met fans negativity is ownership, not BVW, and with good reason. It's only been a few months since this same ownership decided on the out of the box (and widely derided) decision to split responsibilities into a 3 headed committee, and now for their next act they've chosen to go in a direction that's going to require a similar split of duties. I agree we all need to hear a lot more to make any sort of informed judgement but I think it's ridiculous to act like Met fans are embarrassing themselves by not trusting the wilpons.
RE: I actually don't mind Omar in a helping role  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14151242 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
He has a great eye for talent. You just can't let him run things. Omar as an assistant is a big plus IMO, especially with his Latino connections.


Who has Omar's great eye for talent found in the last decade? Are there more than a handful guys Omar found even still in the MLB? How was our farm system the last time Omar was here?
Im willing to sit back  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 12:00 pm : link
Ive vented enough.

Tons of questions however in terms of what moves are to be made and conflicts. Will he try to micromanage Callaway on player management?

Cespedes
Frazier
Nimmo
DeGrom

And a big one for me, Jason Vargas, who absolutely deserves to not start at all, if not be cut altogether.
A lot of fans have been critical of the Wilpons for never thinking  
steve in ky : 10/27/2018 12:01 pm : link
outside of the box and now they are being criticized because this is too far outside of the box. I have know idea how this will play out but nobody for that matter nobody really can know so lets just wait and see how he does.
RE: A lot of fans have been critical of the Wilpons for never thinking  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14151259 steve in ky said:
Quote:
outside of the box and now they are being criticized because this is too far outside of the box. I have know idea how this will play out but nobody for that matter nobody really can know so lets just wait and see how he does.


Its not out of the box though, its an in the box hire because its someone theyve worked with and become comfortable with personally and even socially over the last decade. Its much like the Omar hire actually when that was made.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Drewcon40 : 10/27/2018 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14151232 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
The GM search was not real. BVW was Jeffs pick all along and the search was just for show to the fans and to placate Fred for having a process.


We are both Mets fans but is that a fact. I thought I saw a tweet from Mayer or Sherman that Melvin was the favorite and actually was aware of the [potential] fan backlash. The owners frustrate me too so I get it. If you are down on it, then you are down on it. Hopefully this will work out.

It was CMicks, DanMetroMan or pj who made a good point yesterday, (again I preferred Bloom), but BVW might be the hire that the Wilpons give more authority to. Maybe he has more power than Bloom to clean house (whatever that means).
RE: Mets fans  
Rob in Rockaway : 10/27/2018 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.


I'm with you PJ
RE: Mets fans  
PhiPsi125 : 10/27/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.


The Mets have wasted the patience of their entire fanbase. They havent earned nor do they deserve patience. That ship has sailed.

Prove that you have the teams best interest in mind and translate that to wins. Then we can start talking about patience.
RE: A lot of fans have been critical of the Wilpons for never thinking  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14151259 steve in ky said:
Quote:
outside of the box and now they are being criticized because this is too far outside of the box. I have know idea how this will play out but nobody for that matter nobody really can know so lets just wait and see how he does.


Straw man argument. On the list of criticisms fans have had re the Wilpons "not thinking outside the box" is way down the list. Behind not spending money, meddling in decisions, not giving the baseball people autonomy, and generally enabling a dysfunctional organization.

There is still a lot to be learned about the direction of the franchise moving forward and you are completely right that we need to wait and see. Here's how Rosenthal put it yesterday and I think it very eloquently captures the fair concerns around this hire. Or is he also just a pessimistic met fan?

Quote:

Can Van Wagenen evaluate? Who knows? Its one thing for an agent to identify a top prospect for baseballs amateur draft, or sign an established player after he decides to change agencies. It would be quite another to properly assess not just the 25 players on the Mets major-league roster, but also all of the youngsters at the teams seven minor-league affiliates.

Van Wagenen would need help, a lot of help. He would need the right people to run the farm system and pro, amateur and international scouting departments. He would need to persuade the Wilpons to raise the Mets analytics infrastructure to industry standards. And he would need to establish a positive culture in an environment in which he has never worked before.

None of this is necessarily beyond Van Wagenens reach, but Bloom would face much less of a learning curve as someone who already plays a major role in running a club. Bloom would be the safer hire, likely drawing praise inside and outside the industry. If the Mets do not want to play it safe, they will need to determine exactly how a front office led by Van Wagenen would operate.

Based on their history, its difficult to imagine they have figured it all out.

Rosenthal: For the Mets, two candidates remain but one clear choice ($) - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I actually don't mind Omar in a helping role  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14151256 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14151242 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


He has a great eye for talent. You just can't let him run things. Omar as an assistant is a big plus IMO, especially with his Latino connections.



Who has Omar's great eye for talent found in the last decade? Are there more than a handful guys Omar found even still in the MLB? How was our farm system the last time Omar was here?


Wasn't Omar GM for the drafts that selected deGrom, Matz, Harvey, Murphy, MDD, Kirk N, McHugh, Duda, Gee, Joe Smith, Niese, he was responsible for signing Flores, Familia, Mejia, and others.

He was also instrumental in trading for Santana, and Beltran, and getting guys like Delgado and Pedro.

I'm not saying I want Omar to be the GM, and he had some MASSIVE failures and flaws, but it wasn't all abysmal.

His record, IMO is similar to Sandy's until recently for Sandy. Not sure what's changed, but I like this past draft and past couple IFA classes for Sandy more than most of his tenure.
RE: RE: Mets fans  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14151268 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.



The Mets have wasted the patience of their entire fanbase. They havent earned nor do they deserve patience. That ship has sailed.

Prove that you have the teams best interest in mind and translate that to wins. Then we can start talking about patience.


Exactly. If they want some credibility all they need to do is commit to giving BVW autonomy to choose his own FO, expand in areas like scouting/analytics, and the resources to do it. Every met fan would be thrilled to hear/see the organization do those things, and none should be criticized for not believing it until they see it.
RE: RE: Mets fans  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14151268 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.



The Mets have wasted the patience of their entire fanbase. They havent earned nor do they deserve patience. That ship has sailed.

Prove that you have the teams best interest in mind and translate that to wins. Then we can start talking about patience.


What choice do you have? It's not about owing anything to Mets ownership.

I guess it's a personal choice.

You can bitch and moan on here to no end or you can wait and see.

I choose the latter, you can choose whatever you want.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Sammo85 : 10/27/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14151264 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151232 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


The GM search was not real. BVW was Jeffs pick all along and the search was just for show to the fans and to placate Fred for having a process.



We are both Mets fans but is that a fact. I thought I saw a tweet from Mayer or Sherman that Melvin was the favorite and actually was aware of the [potential] fan backlash. The owners frustrate me too so I get it. If you are down on it, then you are down on it. Hopefully this will work out.

It was CMicks, DanMetroMan or pj who made a good point yesterday, (again I preferred Bloom), but BVW might be the hire that the Wilpons give more authority to. Maybe he has more power than Bloom to clean house (whatever that means).


I dont think the Wilpons are capable of that and even worse I dont see how you would even give the keys and more control to an agent!!!! They did a little bit to Sandy and then slowly picked away at his supposed autonomy. I also dont see where one could rationalize giving an agent who has no real organizational experience. Hes essentially got salesman experience. People are already overhyping his qualifications because he works for a huge agency and went to Stanford.
RE: RE: A lot of fans have been critical of the Wilpons for never thinking  
steve in ky : 10/27/2018 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14151269 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14151259 steve in ky said:


Quote:


outside of the box and now they are being criticized because this is too far outside of the box. I have know idea how this will play out but nobody for that matter nobody really can know so lets just wait and see how he does.



Straw man argument. On the list of criticisms fans have had re the Wilpons "not thinking outside the box" is way down the list. Behind not spending money, meddling in decisions, not giving the baseball people autonomy, and generally enabling a dysfunctional organization.

There is still a lot to be learned about the direction of the franchise moving forward and you are completely right that we need to wait and see. Here's how Rosenthal put it yesterday and I think it very eloquently captures the fair concerns around this hire. Or is he also just a pessimistic met fan?



Quote:



Can Van Wagenen evaluate? Who knows? Its one thing for an agent to identify a top prospect for baseballs amateur draft, or sign an established player after he decides to change agencies. It would be quite another to properly assess not just the 25 players on the Mets major-league roster, but also all of the youngsters at the teams seven minor-league affiliates.

Van Wagenen would need help, a lot of help. He would need the right people to run the farm system and pro, amateur and international scouting departments. He would need to persuade the Wilpons to raise the Mets analytics infrastructure to industry standards. And he would need to establish a positive culture in an environment in which he has never worked before.

None of this is necessarily beyond Van Wagenens reach, but Bloom would face much less of a learning curve as someone who already plays a major role in running a club. Bloom would be the safer hire, likely drawing praise inside and outside the industry. If the Mets do not want to play it safe, they will need to determine exactly how a front office led by Van Wagenen would operate.

Based on their history, its difficult to imagine they have figured it all out.

Rosenthal: For the Mets, two candidates remain but one clear choice ($) - ( New Window )


This discussion is about the GM hire so I'm not saying there aren't other valid criticisms, just talking about the criticism related to the topic at hand of how they wouldn't think progressively when considering the GM, and yet now this might be exactly that.
RE: RE: RE: I actually don't mind Omar in a helping role  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14151270 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151256 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 14151242 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


He has a great eye for talent. You just can't let him run things. Omar as an assistant is a big plus IMO, especially with his Latino connections.



Who has Omar's great eye for talent found in the last decade? Are there more than a handful guys Omar found even still in the MLB? How was our farm system the last time Omar was here?



Wasn't Omar GM for the drafts that selected deGrom, Matz, Harvey, Murphy, MDD, Kirk N, McHugh, Duda, Gee, Joe Smith, Niese, he was responsible for signing Flores, Familia, Mejia, and others.

He was also instrumental in trading for Santana, and Beltran, and getting guys like Delgado and Pedro.

I'm not saying I want Omar to be the GM, and he had some MASSIVE failures and flaws, but it wasn't all abysmal.

His record, IMO is similar to Sandy's until recently for Sandy. Not sure what's changed, but I like this past draft and past couple IFA classes for Sandy more than most of his tenure.


Half of those guys weren't even MLB regulars and barely were major leagues. MDD and Kirk were AAAA outfielders. He signed Pedro and Beltran as FA because the Wilpons used to support a top 5 payroll. Drafting JDG and Harvey in his final draft has really gotten him a lot of mileage in people's reflection of him. Obviously both were great picks but it's conveniently ignored that their development was entirely handled by Sandy's regime and that his regime hadn't developed their top pitching prospects well at all. How quickly it's forgotten that he put his top pitching prospect in the bullpen at age 19 to try to save his own job.
RE: RE: RE: Mets fans  
PhiPsi125 : 10/27/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14151272 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14151268 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14151233 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


always gravitate to the negative.

Last week everyone was pissing in their corn flakes because Melvin was guaranteed to be the GM.

Now he's not but you're still whining.

Maybe, have some patience and give the guy a chance before shitting on him.

Or not, and continue to embarrass yourselves.



The Mets have wasted the patience of their entire fanbase. They havent earned nor do they deserve patience. That ship has sailed.

Prove that you have the teams best interest in mind and translate that to wins. Then we can start talking about patience.



What choice do you have? It's not about owing anything to Mets ownership.

I guess it's a personal choice.

You can bitch and moan on here to no end or you can wait and see.

I choose the latter, you can choose whatever you want.


Well, at this point if you dont know how passionate canvases work then I dont know what to tell you. Of course its a personal choice. Just like your need to put people in their place due to their personal choice.

I dont begrudge any fan for bitching and moaning when their favorite team/franchise operates like a clown show year in and year out. Weve all taken the wait and see approach and we are all disappointed year after year after year.

At least the bitching and moaning indicates some type of interest in the team still. Its shocking that this team still has any type of fanbase.
I'm not trying to put anyone in their place  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 1:52 pm : link
but this place is pretty schizophrenic the past week.

People were saying F the Wilpons, they have this whole thing wired for Melvin the whole time, because he's old school. Here come the glowing planted media reports about Melvin. blah blah blah and many people had said either BVW or Bloom would be solid choices.

There were probably a hundred of these posts on here, on a Mets board I could only imagine there were thousands.

So the Mets surprise everyone, they don't hire Melvin and people find something else to whine about.

I'm as unhappy as every other Mets fan with the last two seasons, but I'm also not going to search out shit to bitch about. and I'm definitely not going to say a unique approach that isn't entirely clear yet how it's going to be structured won't work.

If other people want to it's completely within their right and if I came across as an asshole for trying to suggest they wait and see I apologize.
RE: I'm not trying to put anyone in their place  
steve in ky : 10/27/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14151357 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but this place is pretty schizophrenic the past week.

People were saying F the Wilpons, they have this whole thing wired for Melvin the whole time, because he's old school. Here come the glowing planted media reports about Melvin. blah blah blah and many people had said either BVW or Bloom would be solid choices.

There were probably a hundred of these posts on here, on a Mets board I could only imagine there were thousands.

So the Mets surprise everyone, they don't hire Melvin and people find something else to whine about.

I'm as unhappy as every other Mets fan with the last two seasons, but I'm also not going to search out shit to bitch about. and I'm definitely not going to say a unique approach that isn't entirely clear yet how it's going to be structured won't work.

If other people want to it's completely within their right and if I came across as an asshole for trying to suggest they wait and see I apologize.


Yeah that was the point I was trying to make.
PJ  
Shecky : 10/27/2018 1:54 pm : link
We miss yourAFL updates :(
RE: RE: I actually don't mind Omar in a helping role  
Vanzetti : 10/27/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14151256 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14151242 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


He has a great eye for talent. You just can't let him run things. Omar as an assistant is a big plus IMO, especially with his Latino connections.



Who has Omar's great eye for talent found in the last decade? Are there more than a handful guys Omar found even still in the MLB? How was our farm system the last time Omar was here?



Do you really ant me to list them? OK

RA Dickey
Justin Turner
Daniel Murphy
Mat Harvey
Familia
Matz
Degrom
Duda
Lagares


Thats not a bad haul in only six years. Sandys two great acquisitionsThor and Wheelerwere from trading guys Omar had acquired. I would never trust Omar to run an organization because he does not know when to retrench and when to go for it. So, he winds up making desperation moves. But he can definitely spot talent.
that's a pretty crappy list TBH but we can agree to disagree.  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 3:14 pm : link
I just have a hard time categorizing Omar as a scouting savant when most of his top draft picks couldn't even reach the majors. I consider this past regimes drafts to be pretty middle of the road and they are probably better than that list already - Nimmo, Conforto, Mcneil, Plawecki, Gsellman, Lugo - and will only look better in the future as more guys reach the big leagues like Alonso, Kelenic, Vientos, Dunn, Kay, Peterson, etc. I also fail to see how Omar deserves specific credit for Wheeler + Syndergaard. That would be like crediting Jerry Reese for BJ Hill just bc Dave Gettleman traded a player Reese signed to get him (JPP).

It's amazing to me how many have forgotten that in the wake of Omar's last go round this organization was a smoldering wreckage across the board but especially in terms of young talent. Opening day starters in 2010 - Rod Barajas, Mike Jacobs, Castillo, Alex Cora, Wright, Bay, Francour, Gary Matthews. 5th highest payroll in baseball too.
Omar is good at finding cheap IFA  
moespree : 10/27/2018 3:25 pm : link
This is an asset if you're run the way he Mets are. Sandy was not good as good at this.
Sandy's latest  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 3:41 pm : link
draft and IFA seasons were among his best and the Thor and Wheeler trades were about as good as the Santana trade.

My point though is in 6 years, Omar's teams had more success than Sandy's have so far in 8 years.

Under Omar they were over .500 4 years in a row including the 97 win season in 2006 that is tied the most for a Mets team since the 80's teams.

I truly don't care how they make the sausage, I want on-field success. Now obviously I'm not blind to it - I want a good farm, I want hits not misses in FA and I realize there's a cost to leveraging the future for the "now" but a as a fan I have no say in the matter other than my energy and my passion since my $$ won't make a difference.

RE: I'm not trying to put anyone in their place  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14151357 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but this place is pretty schizophrenic the past week.

People were saying F the Wilpons, they have this whole thing wired for Melvin the whole time, because he's old school. Here come the glowing planted media reports about Melvin. blah blah blah and many people had said either BVW or Bloom would be solid choices.

There were probably a hundred of these posts on here, on a Mets board I could only imagine there were thousands.

So the Mets surprise everyone, they don't hire Melvin and people find something else to whine about.

I'm as unhappy as every other Mets fan with the last two seasons, but I'm also not going to search out shit to bitch about. and I'm definitely not going to say a unique approach that isn't entirely clear yet how it's going to be structured won't work.

If other people want to it's completely within their right and if I came across as an asshole for trying to suggest they wait and see I apologize.


Local fans on message board post different opinions, full story at 11. Sorry but it's far too broad of a brush to just label any non-positive comments as schizo whining. This all comes down to the Wilpons - and they will get the benefit of the doubt when they stop operating their profitable big market franchise, with big market ticket prices, like a small market franchise.

I actually felt positive about group of the final 3 candidates and was 1 the few people who thought Melvin's resume was better than he was given credit for. But the unexpected hiring of the candidate who has never worked for a team before only brings the Wilpon's history of troubling behavior more into focus. Everyone should of course see how things play out, but as many of the most prominent baseball journalists have noted this hiring opens up a lot of questions for the Wilpons - and I personally think it's incorrect to label pointing that out as whining. Or act like Met fans don't have reason to be pessimistic about the Wilpons.
RE: Sandy's latest  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14151428 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
draft and IFA seasons were among his best and the Thor and Wheeler trades were about as good as the Santana trade.

My point though is in 6 years, Omar's teams had more success than Sandy's have so far in 8 years.

Under Omar they were over .500 4 years in a row including the 97 win season in 2006 that is tied the most for a Mets team since the 80's teams.

I truly don't care how they make the sausage, I want on-field success. Now obviously I'm not blind to it - I want a good farm, I want hits not misses in FA and I realize there's a cost to leveraging the future for the "now" but a as a fan I have no say in the matter other than my energy and my passion since my $$ won't make a difference.


Omar consistently had a top payroll, which is a big factor. He never had to cut payroll, which Sandy had to do for the first few seasons.
Some people say  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2018 3:55 pm : link
even if he had unlimited payroll Sandy wouldn't spend more. I disagreed, but to his credit Sandy never said he was constrained by payroll.

From what I've heard.

And Omar was limited to an extent, it's why we wound up with Jason Bay and not Matt Holliday.

Either way, again my point is I'm not condemning any approach or feeling like the Mets are going to fail.

Plus, we don't know Omar's role. I am not going to speculate about that.
Wow  
XBRONX : 10/27/2018 4:08 pm : link
what are his qualifications to be GM"
I see Buster doesnt like the GM hire  
Rflairr : 10/27/2018 4:32 pm : link
lol
RE: Some people say  
Eric on Li : 10/27/2018 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14151439 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
even if he had unlimited payroll Sandy wouldn't spend more. I disagreed, but to his credit Sandy never said he was constrained by payroll.

From what I've heard.

And Omar was limited to an extent, it's why we wound up with Jason Bay and not Matt Holliday.

Either way, again my point is I'm not condemning any approach or feeling like the Mets are going to fail.

Plus, we don't know Omar's role. I am not going to speculate about that.


The majority of the condemnation I've seen is towards the Wilpons. They are the common denominator with all the dysfunction from Steve Phillips internship, to Jim Duquette and the Al Goldis "super scout" phase, to Omar/Bernazard, the Madoff calamity and back through this past seasons 3 headed GM plan and knocking Sandy on the way out the door as he's battling cancer. It's their franchise and the buck stops with them.

Either they are giving the new GM autonomy and resources to do things differently or they aren't, most everything else is noise. If their behavior doesn't change we will only see more of the same circus. New acts, but same circus. At this point it's impossible to say whether BVW is part of the solution or a continuation of the problems, but in either event the result will be more of a commentary on ownership. I don't think anyone can predict if he will or won't succeed but there's little doubt that ownership plays a major role in either setting him up to succeed or to fail.
This GM selection is growing on me  
Vanzetti : 10/28/2018 3:07 am : link
BVW did play baseball at Stanford for 4 years, so he has a baseball background.

Obviously no player development experience is a concern but that's why it is good to have assistants who do have that experience.

As a former gaent, he is going to understand free agency and contracts in a different way.

It's a role of the dice but quite frankly, it is nice to get someone from outside the organization. As we have seen with the Giants, hiring from within or someone with organizational cconnections does not work when the organization is in need of an overhaul
Everyone's looking at Brodie as an agent. We didn't interview him;  
Ira : 10/28/2018 8:23 am : link
we haven't asked him questions about what he'd do in this or that situation and, other than the fact that he's a very successful agent, we don't know that much about him personally. Fred and Jeff have gone through this process and, for whatever reason, think he'll be a better gm than all the other people who did. I'm willing to wait and see whether they were right.
Ricco/Omar/Ricciardi  
DanMetroMan : 10/28/2018 12:02 pm : link
all to remain per Puma
RE: Ricco/Omar/Ricciardi  
Rflairr : 10/28/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14152091 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
all to remain per Puma


lol thats crazy. Hire a new GM and make him keep all the decision makers, that got you In the current situation.
Sham Hire  
Sammo85 : 10/28/2018 1:17 pm : link
.
RE: Ricco/Omar/Ricciardi  
Eric on Li : 10/28/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14152091 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
all to remain per Puma


Very disappointing if so. Hire the least experienced candidate and surround him with 3 holdovers who were part of not just 1 but 2 previous failed regimes. Wilpons staying true to form.
Can't imagine why anyone expected  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/28/2018 3:32 pm : link
a clean house. Ricco and Omar are honorary Wilpons.

It's just like the Knicks over there.
Its an outside the box move...  
ZGiants98 : 10/28/2018 5:39 pm : link
Something the Mets constantly get killed for NOT doing. He's young.... certainly has a bead on the actual players in the league. As of now, I like it. We'll see how the configuration shakes out. I dont mind if Omar and others stick around if they have assigned roles and aren't in on the final decision making.
RE: Its an outside the box move...  
GF1080 : 10/28/2018 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14154247 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Something the Mets constantly get killed for NOT doing. He's young.... certainly has a bead on the actual players in the league. As of now, I like it. We'll see how the configuration shakes out. I dont mind if Omar and others stick around if they have assigned roles and aren't in on the final decision making.


Of course they'll be in the final decision making. Omar and Rico helped make the hire.
RE: Its an outside the box move...  
Sammo85 : 10/28/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14154247 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Something the Mets constantly get killed for NOT doing. He's young.... certainly has a bead on the actual players in the league. As of now, I like it. We'll see how the configuration shakes out. I dont mind if Omar and others stick around if they have assigned roles and aren't in on the final decision making.


It is not an outside the box move!!!!! He is buddy buddy with Ricco and Omar and is social with the Wilpons. Im sorry hiring an agent is not a good outside the box move. Its a bad, out of the box, but our box move. This is just a new shade of lipstick on a pig.
I think everyone is pretty clear on how you feel about the hiring  
Rob in Rockaway : 10/28/2018 6:51 pm : link
.
What would be an outside the box move is Jeff  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/28/2018 7:00 pm : link
keeping his nose out of baseball decisions.
Brodie is a very successful agent who's been making many millions  
Ira : 10/28/2018 7:15 pm : link
each year. I doubt that he'll be anyone's puppet. Why would he put himself in a position like that? He doesn't need this job.
RE: RE: Its an outside the box move...  
ZGiants98 : 10/28/2018 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14154425 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14154247 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Something the Mets constantly get killed for NOT doing. He's young.... certainly has a bead on the actual players in the league. As of now, I like it. We'll see how the configuration shakes out. I dont mind if Omar and others stick around if they have assigned roles and aren't in on the final decision making.



It is not an outside the box move!!!!! He is buddy buddy with Ricco and Omar and is social with the Wilpons. Im sorry hiring an agent is not a good outside the box move. Its a bad, out of the box, but our box move. This is just a new shade of lipstick on a pig.


ok thanks.
I love the move  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 10:21 pm : link
I've explained why several times now. But I'm a huge fan of Van Wagenaan.
I'm okay with the move  
moespree : 10/28/2018 10:42 pm : link
But I'm not really okay with surrounding him with Ricco, Omar and Riccardi. These guys were involved in the interview process though so I don't see any reason to think they won't have significant say. I doubt he'd leave a more profitable job just to be one of the decision makers and not the decision maker though. So we'll see I guess. I hope everyone is asked about this at the press conference to somewhat clarify what the roles are going to be.
This job is about relationships  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 10:50 pm : link
and leadership and managing the Wilpons. Omar has been back one year and a lot of people are lauding our international FA haul this year, obviously that will take many years to see if it bears fruit, but he has always been able to sell the Mets to young latin players and he showed he can do that again. Sandy's strength and weakness was his conservativeness. I think now is the time to add a bold leader and get the Wilpons to open up their purses. It's too soon to tell, but give the guy a shot.
Good news  
Shecky : 10/28/2018 11:01 pm : link
Sox look like theyre ending this thing for us tonight
WHY IS THAT GOOD NEWS  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 11:03 pm : link
wants wrong with a longer world series - no impact on the Mets
Omar  
DanMetroMan : 10/28/2018 11:10 pm : link
Minaya had 0.0% to do with the Mets 2018 big IFA signings. That would be the boots on the ground and now departed Chris Becerra.
alright dan  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 11:15 pm : link
my bad then. But I don't think Minaya is part of the problem is all i'm saying.
RE: alright dan  
DanMetroMan : 10/28/2018 11:20 pm : link
In comment 14155041 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
my bad then. But I don't think Minaya is part of the problem is all i'm saying.


Omar has his value. All 3 of these guys remaining isn't ideal.
Shecky's point about the WS is that now the mets are free to announce  
Eric on Li : 10/28/2018 11:25 pm : link
publicly and hold the intro press conference. That will hopefully be informative. On the positive side I saw something today that BVW insisted on a big investment into the analytics staff. Any sort of prominent role for Omar or anyone else that can enable more meddling from the Wilpons will be concerning however. He literally turned this franchise into a dumpster fire in his last 6 year run. He has done absolutely nothing in the 8 years since to make me think he's any more qualified now than he was then to have a major role in a non-dysfunctional organization.
Dan  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 11:29 pm : link
I scoured through every roster in MLB this week. We're not in that bad a shape compared to other teams. Think about where the SF Giants are. I haven't seen a team in such bad shape in a while. I am not saying these guys are perfect, they haven't been disasters either. They are voices in a room that can provide value, now we have a new decision maker. I am anxious to see what he does with scouting/development, analytics, and public relations. I really liked the Sandy hire at the time and he did take us to the world series, I do think his cancer must have taken a toll on him the last few years. I know family who have had cancer and it just zaps your energy level a lot. It's hard to run an organization with an illness like that, even with a man as intelligent as Sandy.
SF  
CMicks3110 : 10/28/2018 11:32 pm : link
has a half a dozen bad contracts (Posey, Crawford, Longoria, Cueto, Samardizja, Belt, Melacon) all over 30 and all vastly underperforming their salaries. Plus they have 1 piece in there farm system - the kid Bart. They are going to be bad for the next 5 years. They should trade Bumgarner immediately, and try to pair one of their bad contracts with him. Now that is bad management.
with the WS over looks like PC on Tuesday  
Eric on Li : 10/28/2018 11:33 pm : link
@AnthonyDiComo
6m6 minutes ago
More
With the World Series over, the expectation is a Tuesday press conference at Citi Field to introduce Brodie Van Wagenen as the Mets' next GM.
Endy!  
DanMetroMan : 10/28/2018 11:35 pm : link
!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: SF  
Eric on Li : 10/28/2018 11:37 pm : link
In comment 14155083 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
has a half a dozen bad contracts (Posey, Crawford, Longoria, Cueto, Samardizja, Belt, Melacon) all over 30 and all vastly underperforming their salaries. Plus they have 1 piece in there farm system - the kid Bart. They are going to be bad for the next 5 years. They should trade Bumgarner immediately, and try to pair one of their bad contracts with him. Now that is bad management.


Reminiscent of where we were in 2010 w/ Perez, Castillo, Bay, Santana, K Rod and a terrible farm system.
BVW  
GF1080 : 10/29/2018 11:02 am : link
He's taking care of his last business at CAA today with press conference tomorrow.
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:07 am : link
most certainly are in rough shape but given their recent success if the Mets were in their shoes I'd be more forgiving lol. They do quietly have some solid young talent on the way. Joey Bart could be a star, Ramos has elite tools, Anderson looks like a solid mid-rotation guy, Luciano supposedly is a beast, Shaw (an ex-Met pick) is the kind of bat the Giants usually luck upon being better than expected. I don't think the Giants are in as bad shape as it appears. They won't be good next season but given their spending they likely bounce back soon enough.
Dan  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 11:11 am : link
not to get into a debate with you on the SFGiants. But they are in horrible shape. Bart will be a star, I think he is fantastic, but he is at least a year away and he will have no one around him. I also think it would be a foolish time to spend right now without a core. They are in a similar spot to the Mets circa 2010, ton of bad contracts. They really need to pull what Sandy did with RA Dickey with Bumgarner. There is no point in keeping him. I know there will be other suitors, but I wonder if the Mets would make a run at building an even greater super rotation by adding a Bumgarner to the mix. I might be tempted to trade and sign him compared to signing wheeler.
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 14155896 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
not to get into a debate with you on the SFGiants. But they are in horrible shape. Bart will be a star, I think he is fantastic, but he is at least a year away and he will have no one around him. I also think it would be a foolish time to spend right now without a core. They are in a similar spot to the Mets circa 2010, ton of bad contracts. They really need to pull what Sandy did with RA Dickey with Bumgarner. There is no point in keeping him. I know there will be other suitors, but I wonder if the Mets would make a run at building an even greater super rotation by adding a Bumgarner to the mix. I might be tempted to trade and sign him compared to signing wheeler.


Didn't I just note they will be bad this year? lol I don't think they are 3-4 years away from bouncing back. That's my point. Bart could be a big time player. Ramos age 18 season 11 homers, 24 doubles, 8 triples with glowing scouting reports. If Kelenic did that in the SAL this year we would be salivating. Anderson is equal to the Kay/Peterson types we have, Hjelle could come quickly as well. Their payroll drops to 124 million after 2019 and they have spent 175-200 routinely. No reason to believe they are 3-4-5 years from being good again.
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 14155896 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
not to get into a debate with you on the SFGiants. But they are in horrible shape. Bart will be a star, I think he is fantastic, but he is at least a year away and he will have no one around him. I also think it would be a foolish time to spend right now without a core. They are in a similar spot to the Mets circa 2010, ton of bad contracts. They really need to pull what Sandy did with RA Dickey with Bumgarner. There is no point in keeping him. I know there will be other suitors, but I wonder if the Mets would make a run at building an even greater super rotation by adding a Bumgarner to the mix. I might be tempted to trade and sign him compared to signing wheeler.


All due respect but I flat out said

"They won't be good next season but given their spending they likely bounce back soon enough." you think they are very far off from bouncing back. I do not. That is a strange point to debate in my view.
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:21 am : link
favorite Adam Hill comes in at #21

1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) AA 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
9) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
10) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
11) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
12) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
13) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
14) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
15) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
16) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
17) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
18) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
19) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
20) Ross Adolph (OF) 6/25-24%, run-off with Nido 18/25-72%
21) Adam Hill (RHP) 4/26-15%, Run-off with Nido/Crismatt 11/26-58%
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:31 am : link
Why exactly did JP Ricciardi get a deal with "multiple" seasons remaining in the first place? #Mets
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2018 11:33 am : link
In comment 14155962 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Why exactly did JP Ricciardi get a deal with "multiple" seasons remaining in the first place? #Mets


He's got a nose for talent.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 14155965 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14155962 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Why exactly did JP Ricciardi get a deal with "multiple" seasons remaining in the first place? #Mets



He's got a nose for talent.


He does have quite the Jon Niese on him
RE: RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2018 11:36 am : link
In comment 14155970 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14155965 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14155962 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Why exactly did JP Ricciardi get a deal with "multiple" seasons remaining in the first place? #Mets



He's got a nose for talent.



He does have quite the Jon Niese on him


Where is Carlos Beltran when you need him
Quietly  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:40 am : link
becoming a superstar. Matt Chapman. 229 major league games 9.2 fWAR. I know he's polarizing but Billy Beane is pretty incredible at what he does. Ramon Laureano is basically what Lagares people were dreaming he "could" be and Beane got him because the Astros were down on him after a poor 2017.
.  
pjcas18 : 10/29/2018 11:54 am : link

Mike Puma
‏Verified account @NYPost_Mets

Of the three GMs who ran the Mets last summer, J.P. Ricciardi is the most vulnerable to getting squeezed out because he was Sandy Aldersons hire, but he also has multiple years remaining on his contract.
11:27 AM - 29 Oct 2018


Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO

Michael Mayer Retweeted Mike Puma

JP is the name I keep hearing when I talk to people about possible people leaving Mets front office.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 11:55 am : link
Any wonder why the mets defense was so poor... #Mets
Link - ( New Window )
And if a tree  
Shecky : 10/29/2018 11:55 am : link
Falls in the forest...
Brief  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 12:26 pm : link
Newton piece

If Newton (at least currently) is a SS, I'm curious to see what happens with the Mauricio/Newton placement. Does Mauricio go to BK?
Link - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:37 pm : link
The Mets have to replace Chris Becerra with someone high quality. This is very important. DiSarcina should be canned and ideally BVW is allowed to replace Ricciardi with someone he hand picks.
Why don't the Mets rehire  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 1:39 pm : link
Adam Fisher. He is a quality guy and has been very insightful on twitter
RE: Why don't the Mets rehire  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14156342 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Adam Fisher. He is a quality guy and has been very insightful on twitter


Because they should allow BVW to bring in someone HE wants. Not another Wilpon guy. BVW should have at least 1 guy he has a previous relationship or knowledge of. Adam Fisher also had a pretty moronic take on the Alonso stuff so I'm not sure he's such a genius himself. Argued the Mets would have a 40 man crunch. Here were players on the 40 man at the time he said that



Reinheimer
Philip Evans
Montero
Lobaton
Gagnon
Conlon
Peterson
Flexen
Sewald
Rhame
Wright
right  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 1:52 pm : link
I think his point was that once he's put on the 40 man roster, he couldn't be taken off. Those players you listed all can be dropped and no one would bat an eye. But there are probably MiLers that are eligible for the rule 5 draft that need to be added this off-season, and since Alonso doesn't need to be, why risk losing a potential contributor on meaningless games. I thought his point was logical. Plus we will gain another year of service time.
RE: right  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14156381 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
I think his point was that once he's put on the 40 man roster, he couldn't be taken off. Those players you listed all can be dropped and no one would bat an eye. But there are probably MiLers that are eligible for the rule 5 draft that need to be added this off-season, and since Alonso doesn't need to be, why risk losing a potential contributor on meaningless games. I thought his point was logical. Plus we will gain another year of service time.


That was NOT his point

"There's another factor that goes in with the playing time, and that's 40-man roster management. Right now, they are at 39 players out of 40 who are healthy or on the 10-day disabled list. Then they have another eight players who are on the 60-day disabled list, and they don't count against the 40-man roster.

So essentially they're at 39 players, but there are 47 players they are taking into the offseason. They only have five free agents Those five only take them down to 42 heading into the offseason. There is no 60-day in the offseason, so Yoenis Cespedes, David Wright everyone has to be on the roster.

Then they have to start to cut guys to get under 40. They're going to want to add players in their own system who are eligible for the Rule 5 draft, unlike Peter Alonso.

So basically, you're looking at having to take some guys off the roster, and there's some easy choices. You're looking at Drew Gagnon, maybe Chris Flexen, Rafael Montero, Jack Reinheimer, P.J. Conlon. Those are five guys right there that would take the Mets to 36. If you added [Eric] Hanhold, that would leave you at 37.

So you'd only have three spots to add free agents, heading into the offseason, without cutting even further into your 40-man roster Fans who are upset that they lost Chasen Bradford last offseason cannot be upset that they didn't add Peter Alonso for September."
BTW  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 1:54 pm : link
i would keep Montero if I was in charge. I think he's a better option than Corey Oswalt as a spot starter, certainly has better stuff when healthy, and his arbitration # probably won't be much more than league minimum.
He  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:56 pm : link
also defended the Bruce and Adrian Gonzalez moves. Came off as a pro-Wilpon mouth piece on SNY (defended the Mets lack of analytics staff) etc etc. No idea why you would want yet another guy with Wilpon ties with no ties to the GM? Sacked by the Braves for the shit involving Hart and unemployed. Hard pass.
yeah  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 1:57 pm : link
you're referencing the quote I was referring to. I think it's a strong point. Not sure why you disagree. Did I not write it clearly or do you just not agree?
RE: BTW  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14156395 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
i would keep Montero if I was in charge. I think he's a better option than Corey Oswalt as a spot starter, certainly has better stuff when healthy, and his arbitration # probably won't be much more than league minimum.


40 man spot means he's being DFA'ed 100%. There is some weird stuff behind the scenes with Montero with them publicly question questioning his gumption. I would be very surprised if he returns. He won't even be back until mid-season 2019. 40 man spot all but guarantees he's a goner unless he simply goes unclaimed.
RE: yeah  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14156405 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
you're referencing the quote I was referring to. I think it's a strong point. Not sure why you disagree. Did I not write it clearly or do you just not agree?


Yeah I fully disagree with the idea the Mets have a legitimate 40 man crunch coming up. Quite the opposite. If anything this is the first year they do not. They have TONS of space on that roster.
Look  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 1:59 pm : link
I don't know everything the guy has ever said, I thought he made some decent points at times, including the quote you just posted. I was very against the AG and Bruce moves as well. Bruce was always a square peg in a round hole and I never understood the Mets love for him. He was always redundant with Conforto and Nimmo, never made sense even as a safeguard to a Cespedes injury.
On the 40man roster  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:01 pm : link
it just allows flexibility. What if they trade and add 4 players that are 40man roster eligible, along with Free Agency. There is just a greater downside to adding him than there is upside - at that point in the season. I think he made a solid point, you have a right to disagree but I think it's worthy of debate, it's not like his logic is remarkably out of touch.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:02 pm : link
""he showed the Mets that he had the character to succeed in this city."

"One of the biggest challenges for a front office in this market is figuring out who has the makeup and character to succeed here," Fisher said. "There were questions about whether Jay would have success here, coming in to last season after he struggled coming over from the Reds. And he completely turned around that narrative. He was a very consistent presence in the Mets' lineup, he improved his defense, and he was also a very positive person in that clubhouse."
Bruce was  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:05 pm : link
decent in 2017 offensively.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:08 pm : link
I have to ask again why you would want a long time Wilpon employee brought back to assist with someone with zero ties to him? He also defended the Mets lack of analytics staff... which is in direct contrast with BVW who apparently sold the Wilpons on a heavily built up analytics staff.
Missed  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:12 pm : link
2018 with injury but given how thin they are at C, Juan Uriarte is probably one to watch for 2019. Obviously Alvarez is too but he's gotta be 5-6 years away.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 10/29/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14156339 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
The Mets have to replace Chris Becerra with someone high quality. This is very important. DiSarcina should be canned and ideally BVW is allowed to replace Ricciardi with someone he hand picks.


Totally agree. Ricco staying on operationally doesn't bother me, but BVW absolutely needs to be able to do 2 things:

1. Choose a FO exec who can be his go to on everything - and this person needs to come from the entire baseball universe, not just a Met person. BVW has dealt with almost every team exec and few underlings around the league, he needs to pick whoever he thinks is shrewdest and has experience at the things he doesn't have.

2. Get the resources to revamp the scouting, development, and analytics departments - in large part under the direction of person #1.

My thoughts on Omar are pretty clear and I've resigned myself to accepting that he will be here in some capacity. If he is #1 I will be thoroughly disappointed.
DiSarcina  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:21 pm : link
made absolutely no sense for a first time manager coming over from the AL. Even Amaro Jr. would have made more sense. They should bring in a guy with managerial experience who isn't eager to take Callaway's job.
.  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:27 pm : link
Quote:
Again
DanMetroMan : 2:08 pm : link : reply
I have to ask again why you would want a long time Wilpon employee brought back to assist with someone with zero ties to him? He also defended the Mets lack of analytics staff... which is in direct contrast with BVW who apparently sold the Wilpons on a heavily built up analytics staff.


Maybe I have had a few conversations with him on twitter and thought his commentary was sensible. Maybe it was nothing more than that. You don't need to grill me on it; why did you fall in love with Ty Kelly three summer's ago. You had a gigantic man-crush on him. I couldn't explain why you liked a AAAA player more than someone like TJ Rivera at the time.

But whatever, sometimes you just like people. It's human nature. And to think that somehow working for Wilpon tarnishes someone to such a degree that they are not deserving of a job in baseball again is just silly.

A lot of good people have worked for bad bosses and are still good at what they do.

I believe his points about analytics made publicly don't always reflect how someone feels privately and you have a habit of taking quotes and attributing absolute certainty about individuals full thoughts, feelings, and philosophy based on those quotes. I didn't want Melvin, but repeatedly quoting how someone felt at one time - referencing his idea that it was a younger man's game - doesn't mean he feels that way all the time. Or at the time of interview - when he said he was reenergized.

The supreme court has had cases about this sort of issue and the answer always is, how do they feel in the present.

So, you're argument is he was a Wilpon guy and he made - in your opinion - some bonehead comments on twitter - is not nearly enough data to evaluate him as an executive. And bear in mind, I'm only pointing holes in your arguments, I'm not some huge Adam Fisher guy, I just like a few of the things he has said and thought he seemed intelligent from the limited observations i've had.
So  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:28 pm : link
you think the ideal situation is Omar/Collins/Ricco + possibly Ricciardi and Fisher all with long time ties to the Wilpons and none to BVW being the ideal situation? I disagree. The end.
Fisher's  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:30 pm : link
most recent defending the Mets analytics staff came within the last month (it was a response to the Rosenthal piece that noted how few they had). So yeah, his view hasn't changed.
You  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:33 pm : link
honestly think it makes sense to have a GM without a single handpicked guy? Not his manager, not his scouting director, and Omar/Ricco/Collins/Fisher? As for Ty Kelly, yeah rooting for a fun personality older minor leaguer is the same as wanting to bring in another Wilpon employee? Umm...I also wanted them to give Brentz and Michael a look in Sept. Didn't happen.
did you even  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:34 pm : link
read my response? It wasn't about Fisher, it was about your line of argument. I said I wasn't some big fisher backer, but you're bashing of him based on a handful of quotes and his previous employment is not and could not possibly be a serious review of his work.
Nabil  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:35 pm : link
Crismatt is a 6 year FA if the Mets don't add him to the 40 man. Unbelievably bad at AAA but they may have to add him mediocre pure stuff but success at every level before AAA
.  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:36 pm : link
Quote:
You
DanMetroMan : 2:33 pm : link : reply
honestly think it makes sense to have a GM without a single handpicked guy? Not his manager, not his scouting director, and Omar/Ricco/Collins/Fisher?


Did I say that? or did you just make up that point as if I said that. Because I don't remember saying that.
RE: did you even  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14156502 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
read my response? It wasn't about Fisher, it was about your line of argument. I said I wasn't some big fisher backer, but you're bashing of him based on a handful of quotes and his previous employment is not and could not possibly be a serious review of his work.


Yes. I am strongly against bringing in another person with strong Wilpon/Omar/Ricco ties. I believe BVW needs some of his own people. Agree to disagree.
RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14156507 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:


Quote:


You
DanMetroMan : 2:33 pm : link : reply
honestly think it makes sense to have a GM without a single handpicked guy? Not his manager, not his scouting director, and Omar/Ricco/Collins/Fisher?



Did I say that? or did you just make up that point as if I said that. Because I don't remember saying that.


You just advocated for Fisher. Omar and Ricco are 100% coming back. Collins is coming back. Callaway is coming back. By supporting bringing in Fisher how are you not doing that? Please explain.
Almost  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:40 pm : link
have to add him given the lack of AAA SP depth to open the season

@SotoC803
11h11 hours ago
More Christopher Soto Retweeted Tigres del Licey
#Mets @NabilCrismatt tossed an absolute gem for the @TigresdelLicey last night in the LIDOM.

5.0 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 7 K, 69 pitches(47 strikes)
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:41 pm : link
Michael Mayer


@mikemayerMMO
22m22 minutes ago
More
Mets prospects Peter Alonso and Andres Gimenez have been chosen to play in the Fall Stars Game (Arizona Fall League All-Star) this Saturday.

The game will be on MLB Network and MLB dot com with a 8 pm ET start.
I said I liked the guy  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 2:43 pm : link
I liked some of the points he made on twitter. That does not preclude BVW from bringing in his own guys too, which you seemed to (incorrectly) imply what I was saying. I said I like Adam Fisher, that's all. I also disagreed that you, singularly, can assess him based on the fact that he a. worked for the Wilpons and b. Made commentary you disagreed with on twitter and doing so is just silly
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:44 pm : link
No knock on Gimenez but pretty clearly this is "top prospects" vs, best performers. Gimenez had a rough AFL (hit .111) #Mets
RE: I said I liked the guy  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14156519 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
I liked some of the points he made on twitter. That does not preclude BVW from bringing in his own guys too, which you seemed to (incorrectly) imply what I was saying. I said I like Adam Fisher, that's all. I also disagreed that you, singularly, can assess him based on the fact that he a. worked for the Wilpons and b. Made commentary you disagreed with on twitter and doing so is just silly


Most teams don't have 3 ex-Gm's working with their new GM + whatever the hell it is Terry Collins does. As it is they have too many decision makers. You want to bring in Fisher AND BVW bringing in his own guys? It becomes far too many chefs and yes it's less than ideal to have so many long term Wilpon employees for various reasons but most importantly... the Mets haven't actually been good with these guys here. Omar Minaya is treated as if he's Stick Michael for some reason. JP Ricciardi didn't believe in signing IFA's when he was in Toronto and was one of the worst GM's in baseball in terms of valuation of players in FA and Ricco.. kinda "strange" he's never once been interviewed for another teams GM job.
Either  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 2:53 pm : link
Sandy is sicker than they are letting on or he wasn't coming back regardless. They made it seem like he was simply stepping aside due to illness but if that's the case you'd think he'd be somewhat involved in this process and wasn't. Hopefully he's okay.
I feel bad for Sandy  
CMicks3110 : 10/29/2018 3:01 pm : link
he is a supremely intelligent man. A very honorable man who lived a fairly remarkable life. I have to think the cancer really did impact him the last few years.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 3:06 pm : link
that I expected to really hear from him but he's totally off the radar. Hopefully he just was tired of the grind.
RE: Either  
Eric on Li : 10/29/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14156540 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Sandy is sicker than they are letting on or he wasn't coming back regardless. They made it seem like he was simply stepping aside due to illness but if that's the case you'd think he'd be somewhat involved in this process and wasn't. Hopefully he's okay.


Here's my guess - he was over the Wilpons dating back to last offseason (probably even before that) but specifically when they overruled him on Cherington and hired Omar (presumably without his full blessing).

Over the summer when he stepped down and reporters asked if he should come back he said "I'm not sure I deserve to" and when he wasn't involved at all in the transition structure the writing was on the wall. Any doubts about his feelings for the this ownership seemed clear once Cherington refused to even interview.

Add in the the Wilpon's leaking the he said/she said about Cherington's "rebuild plan" and their publicly knocking Sandy on the way out the door, for of all things not spending more $, and it seems pretty clear there were factions brewing and Sandy had no interest in any continued involvement.
Dont read too much into it  
Shecky : 10/29/2018 4:24 pm : link
He is leaving on good terms with the Wilpons
RE: Dont read too much into it  
Eric on Li : 10/29/2018 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14156668 Shecky said:
Quote:
He is leaving on good terms with the Wilpons


Was he involved in the search at all? Presumably he had a good relationship with BVW but beyond that with any of the other candidates?
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/29/2018 5:04 pm : link
Anthony DiComo

Verified account

@AnthonyDiComo
16s17 seconds ago
More
Six Mets became free agents today:

-LHP Jerry Blevins
-OF Austin Jackson
-C Jose Lobaton
-C Devin Mesoraco
-RHP A.J. Ramos
-SS Jose Reyes

It is entirely possible the team does not re-sign any of them.
Back to the Corner