Not fond of his joking about hotdogs and a bag of doughnuts, when apparently he did have reasonable offers (I was in favor of trading back)
Quote:
Last week, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman said the only offers he was receiving for the No. 2 pick in the draft were for "a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog."
But speaking to WFAN's "The Afternoon Drive With Carlin, Maggie & Bart" on Monday, Gettleman revealed he did receive "one very reasonable offer."
Some really bad FA signings, although I don't blame him for Solder. If he didn't sign him, how could he look Eli in the face and tell him to go out there and win with Flowers protecting his blind side again.
Stewart, Omameh and Martin have been highly suspect as well.
Not fond of the Lauletta pick, the team had bigger needs in the 4th.
Seems the team didn't do their homework on MacIntosh...
On the other hand:
The rest of his draft seems good
Realizing that it was time to tear the team down and rebuild, and having the guts to do it is good. Although, I thought it should have been done when he got the job.
Shurmer was handed a 55 gallon drum of shit and asked to make something of it. While, he has not always acquitted himself, for now he gets a pass...
Eli, is what he is... But realize that he was made into what he is, he wasn't always this way.
If you believe what some were saying last offseason, Patricia was the number 1 choice.
I disagree with the approach DG had, but 1-7 is awful. I see no improvement at all. I see lousy clock management. I’m unsure if he has a commanding presence. There doesn’t seem to be any scheming around deficiencies. What is his overall coaching record? 11-30?
I don’t care about the owner, GM or QB - 1-7 is awful. Add in the fact that we have “generational” talents at WR & RB. The Giants don’t have the only bad OL in football.
For his half baked GM search which begat a half baked coach search and which perpetuated the thesis that Eli could win without a defense playing shutdown ball
If you believe what some were saying last offseason, Patricia was the number 1 choice.
I disagree with the approach DG had, but 1-7 is awful. I see no improvement at all. I see lousy clock management. I’m unsure if he has a commanding presence. There doesn’t seem to be any scheming around deficiencies. What is his overall coaching record? 11-30?
I don’t care about the owner, GM or QB - 1-7 is awful. Add in the fact that we have “generational” talents at WR & RB. The Giants don’t have the only bad OL in football.
No the Giants are not the only team with a bad OL...
But they are the team with the worst... And by a wide margin. If you look at this OLine and don't realize that it is historically bad, then you don't know anything about offensive line, and probably not much about football.
If you are simply relying on PFF, or FO for your evaluation, you are missing the mark by a wide margin. This is the worst run blocking team, AND the worst pass blocking team. The ONLY reason it doesn't look as bad as it really is, is because Eli gets the ball out a full .4 seconds faster than ANY OTHER QB in the league. If he waited that extra .4 seconds, the sack numbers would be on a record pace.
Selectively aggressive on offense: The reason he took shit for his two point decision against Atlanta is because he decides to be aggressive at the wrong times. If you are going to play the percentages, it only works if you employ it consistently. There were times in the past few games where having that same aggressive mind set may have had a positive impact.
Play call selection: I get the line blows, but the play calling isn't doing anyone any favors. Doesn't seem to be calling plays to neutralize the poor line, like screens, until obvious downs like 3rd and long. Bettcher, on the other hand, seems to be doing more with less talent.
Selectively aggressive on offense: The reason he took shit for his two point decision against Atlanta is because he decides to be aggressive at the wrong times. If you are going to play the percentages, it only works if you employ it consistently. There were times in the past few games where having that same aggressive mind set may have had a positive impact.
Play call selection: I get the line blows, but the play calling isn't doing anyone any favors. Doesn't seem to be calling plays to neutralize the poor line, like screens, until obvious downs like 3rd and long. Bettcher, on the other hand, seems to be doing more with less talent.
Going for 2 against Atlanta was actually a call that made sense - people are getting on him for that unjustly.
Safe to say there aren't many redeeming qualities thus far. But I'd imagine it difficult for an offensive coach to squeeze offense out of a line that is getting his all-world RB hit behind the line on the majority of his carries and a 37 year old QB who obviously cannot overcome the garbage in front of him.
If you're going to go with Pat Shurmur and expect offense - he's going to need a QB and a passable OL.
I can take him or leave him at this point. I just don't know how much more anyone expects any coach to get out of this offense given the personnel we're working with.
Skill players don't matter if you can't open up running lanes or protect the QB at all.
Mara. From what I can imperfectly see over time. No System, No Guru. No Method. No Performance Metrics or scorecard for the top positions.
He simply does not seem to have a point of view on how to win over time so its all dependent on people echoing their confirmation bias to him
As for Solder, i honestly dont know if he is being asked to cover to the inside gap so hernandez can cover to the center gap on the thesis that Eli gets more time if the inside holds and the centers are the first and biggest vulnerability of the line? Is his arm badly hurt but there is no one else?
We do not know enough to fully understand his results.
Of the three Id say DG. I just did not see the alarm bells on the OL that matches the OL situation. This is not hard. we ended last year with no real even close to average LT, RG, Center, LG or RT. Much less any average depth. Think about that. Everyone knew that. How did we hid the BBGOFO ( Big Blinding Glimpse of the Fucking Obvious) in plain sight from ourselves from DG on down? I have no idea.
PATdestrian Shurmur was a very weak hire. Thinking Eli Manning could be dominate again and signing garbage players while giving away good ones has looked very bad so far.
Lets go by process of elimination. Gettleman ? He is what he is. A 67 year old man in poor health. It was obvious that this team is in need of a rebuild. Even under the best of circumstances this may have been a 9-7 team with a 38 year old QB and 67 year old GM going into 2019. I don't blame Gettleman, I blame the guy who hired him.
Eli ? He's the greatest QB in Giants history. His ability to engineer comebacks, work with less than stellar OL's and RB's may be among the best in NFL history. But now he's done. He should have retired last year just as Archie hinted he should. Its painful to watch him now, but like many fading star athletes he doesn't realize that he can no longer get it done. I can't blame him for that. I blame the owner who can't make a tough decision.
Shurmer ? The only mistake he made was taking this job to begin with. He was set up for failure from day 1. He's been saddled with a QB who has nothing left, a backup QB, Webb who was no damned good an an OL that is 4/5 no good. With the right material he may have been a good coach. Unfortunately for him, I don't think he's going to be around long enough for us to find out.
There's enough here to make this offense do something. I don't see any expertise on Shurmur's part in being creative and using his resources well. Maybe it will take a little more time. But there has been evidence of a lack of fundamentals regarding questionable decisions, bad clock management, personnel...
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
A lot of things have to go wrong to be as bad as they've been. Too hard to assign blame to any single me person, but the head coach was who I was most excited about coming into the year, so Shurmur is the guy.
Of the trio listed to choose from, Shurmur. I am disappointed in some of his coaching hires and the overall performance of his team, particularly the offense.
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
The fact that the “hand of god comment” bothers some of you so much is mind blowing. And instead of it being a tongue and cheek comment (which was its intent) it’s now bringing religion into it. Dramatic or no?
I’d say 50/50 Shurmur and Eli. I though we’d be more creative on offense but I really think Eli’s mobility is such an issue that it’s basically hopeless until he’s gone. He hasn’t stepped his play up at all and there’s nothing to be scared of even with Barkley and Beckham. I’m convinced even a slightly mobile QB like an Alex Smith or Keenum would make this offense look light years better than it’s been.
Re Shurmur: I was expecting more improvement over the first 8 games; the next 8 games will tell a lot. However it seems that they are trying to fumigate the locker room and change the culture. They may be facing a deeper problem than we or they realized. If so, this is truly a rebuilding season, and is more about laying the foundation for future success than about wins.
Re Eli: I don't know how to gauge what he's doing. He was sacked 31 times in 8 games. That's ridiculous. Yet on the other hand he's getting criticized for dumping the ball off too much. Should he stand in the pocket and wait for slow-developing long passes? Usually, when he tries that, he gets sacked. I don't think any QB -- mobile or not -- would be playing well under these conditions. Might someone else do better? Maybe. He hasn't been all that accurate when he has been able to get the ball out. The offense rarely looks crisp; other teams often look sharp and efficient even when they're losing. The one constant over the years of mediocre and bad regular seasons is Eli. I love the guy but it's true.
Re Gettleman: Talks a great game, seems to have nailed the draft, will look even better if Beal and McIntosh pan out. (I think both are long shots, but I'd love to be wrong about that.) The O-line fiasco and the general suckitude of the free agent signings makes his first off-season a wash. But the guy was fighting cancer, too. Maybe he should have stepped aside, but what's past is past.
Here's one thing I give Gettleman and Shurmur some credit for: They've been aggressive about getting rid of guys who won't be part of the solution (Apple, Flowers, Snacks) and about churning the bottom of the roster. They seem to be decisive about making changes, even if some of those changes are going to hurt in the short term. They said all the right things about a clean slate, etc. but when they've seen a problem, they've taken action. The one big exception is Eli's play, but getting rid of Eli isn't addition by subtraction. If there were an upgrade available, I think they'd make the move. There really isn't. Nobody's an upgrade if the line is this bad.
His decision to release Webb and sign Tanney made no sense to me. The Giants should today be playing both Webb and Lauletta to determine whether either one is starter material. The fact that no team added Webb to their active roster in no way convinces me that he cannot play in this league. His arm is light years better than Lauletta's. Granted his accuracy is in question, but the remainder of 2018 should be a test of both quarterbacks, not just a test of Lauletta.
If the fact that no team thought he was worth a roster spot Â
Shurmur’s been weak but the coaching hasn’t been across-the-board bad.
Eli is who I thought he is.
Gettleman has been shit with the exception of what looks like a few solid draft picks. I don’t count Saquon among those because he passed on players of greater value, including (and especially) the QBs.
He is weak. His reputation with the media in Cleveland was not good. He has not learned from that experience. He lacks charisma and leadership skills. He has done nothing to improve the offense. He will be replaced along with Gettleman in 2020,
I wouldn't have thought it possible to field a worse OL than last year, but by dint of both poor personnel choices and poor coaching these two have pulled it off. And without the rash of injuries that hit last year. I have a hard time tell which bears more of the blame. How is it that half the time they have no clue whom to block? And, if they thought Pugh and Richberg were overpaid, why did they go and overpay Solder and Omameh by so much. And deciding even before camp to start Halapio over Jones and trade Jones for a 7th rounder does not make sense whether you are trying to win now or to build for the future.
Going for 2 against Atlanta was actually a call that made sense - people are getting on him for that unjustly.
I agree with the going for the two call, my point was, that if you are going to play the percentages game, you can't just pick and choose when to when to do it. It should be a part of you game plan going forward. For instance, taking a chance on a long field goal instead of punting, etc.
To me going for two in that situation and not leveraging similar, high-probability, non-scoring situations would be equivalent to employing the shift once in baseball, it not working and then never going back to it again. The reason the shift works is if you regularly implement it. More often than not, it will work.
So to see Shurmur not implement that in the redskins game was disappointing; eschewing the long field goal attempt, etc.
I'm willing to give Gettleman and Shurmer more than 8 months before I shit all over them.
Eli got us two rings; he's 37 years old and sick and tired of having a sieve of an OL for the last 5 years. Yes his play has dropped off, but Eli of 10 years ago wouldn't have fared much better with the shitty line they've had
His FA signings were disastrous, especially Solder.
As people smarter than me have observed, Solder handles speed rushers by forcing them to run beyond the QB. The idea is that the QB steps up in the pocket and the ball is out by the time the rusher recovers. It worked in New England, where Brady did that all the time. With the Giants, however, the inside of the line is getting beaten constantly. There's no pocket to step up into. So Solder's approach isn't working.
But that's the whole thing about the line playing as a unit. Nothing works until everything works. Or, at least, nothing works well until everything works adequately.
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
This.
Then the Shurminator. Is there real evidence thus far he’s really an upgrade over McAdoo? I really don’t see a discernible difference between the two with regard to the on the field product.
Not fond of his joking about hotdogs and a bag of doughnuts, when apparently he did have reasonable offers (I was in favor of trading back)
Quote:
Last week, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman said the only offers he was receiving for the No. 2 pick in the draft were for "a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog."
But speaking to WFAN's "The Afternoon Drive With Carlin, Maggie & Bart" on Monday, Gettleman revealed he did receive "one very reasonable offer."
Some really bad FA signings, although I don't blame him for Solder. If he didn't sign him, how could he look Eli in the face and tell him to go out there and win with Flowers protecting his blind side again.
S
How could he have explained his lack of protection on his blindside if he got Norwell instead? Remember DG's 1st attempt was Norwell. It was NOT to protect Eli blindside.
Remember that almost all of the sub-issues being listed here are because of Dave Gettleman and John Mara.
If you're disappointed in Nate Solder, well.. who decided he was worth that contract?
If you're disappointed in Pat Shurmur, well.. who decided he was the right coach to hire?
If you're disappointed in Eli Manning, well... who decided he still had "years left" ?
It always starts at the top.
You can always blame management when it comes to a shifty toster. But sometimes players have to go do their jobs. Nate Solder was never a the best tackle in the league. But he is sure ain’t one of the worst. But he is playing like it.
And a lot of this shit roster is because of Reese and Ross as well.
If the Roster was so bad as you suggest (Which I agree with) then why do you go after SOlder?
1a--- ANd if you think it was only to protect Eli's blindside why not get someone who was cheaper? WHy get an old LT on a team going nowhere if you know you were going to stink?
1b-- If you are going to use the make believe made up excuse that you needed a an older extremely overpaid LT and that was a logical plan then how can you explain how hard DG went after Norwell 1st? If he got Norwell what was the plan to protect ELi's blindside if that was so important?
I don't give a shit if the guy is methuselah if he knows how to assemble a good roster.
Think of Gettleman as a consultant brought in to be the "bad guy".
He took this job full well knowing his role was.to.come.in, trim allmof the fat and move on in 3-4 years. He is the doctor tasked with giving this team the enema it needed.
I'll go with DG. If I remember reading correctly, there are 17 players that have been held over from last year's squad. They jettisoned 66 percent of their team. Can't be in win-now mode with that type of turnover. The off-season signings were of some concern, especially Solder. They gave him Pro Bowler money. I understand the need for LT, especially if they were in the ridiculous win now mode, but he just wasn't the player. Omameh is a head-scratcher and Stewart was a laugh track. Obviously, we need some time to see how the draft plays out, especially Barkley. Right now, it looks as if there are some nice players. So we'll revisit their play in 2 to 3 years. And was Tanney the best they could do at QB #2?
He's the visionary oversight, and Shurmur not far behind him. DG's UFA looks to be a significant set of mistakes and a poor job of pro personnel scouting. The org has a whole seems to have a blind spot for self-scouting, and it's a huge problem.
I didn't have big expectations of Eli, he's been declining the past two seasons and it has continued, even accelerated.
because I never expected anything good from him to begin with.
Everything about that process was a disappointment, from the bringing in of Toupee Ernie as a "consultant" to the phony "GM search" to the hiring of the least inspiring candidate possible.
I don't give a shit if the guy is methuselah if he knows how to assemble a good roster.
Think of Gettleman as a consultant brought in to be the "bad guy".
He took this job full well knowing his role was.to.come.in, trim allmof the fat and move on in 3-4 years. He is the doctor tasked with giving this team the enema it needed.
This is the worst logic I've heard when discussing Gettleman.
They needed a bad guy? You think that any other GM couldn't come in and purge the roster for fear he'd develop a reputation?
The NFL is notorious for constant roster churn/turnover. No GM would have a hard time coming in and pulling the trigger on a bunch of guys who were underperforming and brought in by the previous GM.
I think it's hard to evaluate Shurmur and specifically his offense because of how bad Eli is. Yes, the OL has been awful, but as those who break down film have illustrated, there have been several instances each game where Eli missed plays despite good protection. And some of them (e.g goalline rollout that should've went to Beckham) were not difficult reads/throws. Shurmur drew up and called a great play there. Eli failed to execute.
Love DG's 1st draft, but obviously disappointed with some of his FA signings. Probably less so the Solder signing than most, but the Stewart/Omameh/Martin signings made no sense on any level.
Not fond of his dismissal of analytics.
Not fond of his joking about hotdogs and a bag of doughnuts, when apparently he did have reasonable offers (I was in favor of trading back)
Last week, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman said the only offers he was receiving for the No. 2 pick in the draft were for "a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog."
But speaking to WFAN's "The Afternoon Drive With Carlin, Maggie & Bart" on Monday, Gettleman revealed he did receive "one very reasonable offer."
https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/dave-gettleman-wfan-giants-had-very-reasonable-offer-no-2-pick
Some really bad FA signings, although I don't blame him for Solder. If he didn't sign him, how could he look Eli in the face and tell him to go out there and win with Flowers protecting his blind side again.
Stewart, Omameh and Martin have been highly suspect as well.
Not fond of the Lauletta pick, the team had bigger needs in the 4th.
Seems the team didn't do their homework on MacIntosh...
On the other hand:
The rest of his draft seems good
Realizing that it was time to tear the team down and rebuild, and having the guts to do it is good. Although, I thought it should have been done when he got the job.
Shurmer was handed a 55 gallon drum of shit and asked to make something of it. While, he has not always acquitted himself, for now he gets a pass...
Eli, is what he is... But realize that he was made into what he is, he wasn't always this way.
2. OL
3. Ownership for not firing Reese earlier.
I disagree with the approach DG had, but 1-7 is awful. I see no improvement at all. I see lousy clock management. I’m unsure if he has a commanding presence. There doesn’t seem to be any scheming around deficiencies. What is his overall coaching record? 11-30?
I don’t care about the owner, GM or QB - 1-7 is awful. Add in the fact that we have “generational” talents at WR & RB. The Giants don’t have the only bad OL in football.
Quote:
1.Reese
2. OL
3. Ownership for not firing Reese earlier.
+100
These choices were not given... but yeah, can't argue with them...
I disagree with the approach DG had, but 1-7 is awful. I see no improvement at all. I see lousy clock management. I’m unsure if he has a commanding presence. There doesn’t seem to be any scheming around deficiencies. What is his overall coaching record? 11-30?
I don’t care about the owner, GM or QB - 1-7 is awful. Add in the fact that we have “generational” talents at WR & RB. The Giants don’t have the only bad OL in football.
No the Giants are not the only team with a bad OL...
But they are the team with the worst... And by a wide margin. If you look at this OLine and don't realize that it is historically bad, then you don't know anything about offensive line, and probably not much about football.
If you are simply relying on PFF, or FO for your evaluation, you are missing the mark by a wide margin. This is the worst run blocking team, AND the worst pass blocking team. The ONLY reason it doesn't look as bad as it really is, is because Eli gets the ball out a full .4 seconds faster than ANY OTHER QB in the league. If he waited that extra .4 seconds, the sack numbers would be on a record pace.
Play call selection: I get the line blows, but the play calling isn't doing anyone any favors. Doesn't seem to be calling plays to neutralize the poor line, like screens, until obvious downs like 3rd and long. Bettcher, on the other hand, seems to be doing more with less talent.
Play call selection: I get the line blows, but the play calling isn't doing anyone any favors. Doesn't seem to be calling plays to neutralize the poor line, like screens, until obvious downs like 3rd and long. Bettcher, on the other hand, seems to be doing more with less talent.
Going for 2 against Atlanta was actually a call that made sense - people are getting on him for that unjustly.
Safe to say there aren't many redeeming qualities thus far. But I'd imagine it difficult for an offensive coach to squeeze offense out of a line that is getting his all-world RB hit behind the line on the majority of his carries and a 37 year old QB who obviously cannot overcome the garbage in front of him.
If you're going to go with Pat Shurmur and expect offense - he's going to need a QB and a passable OL.
I can take him or leave him at this point. I just don't know how much more anyone expects any coach to get out of this offense given the personnel we're working with.
Skill players don't matter if you can't open up running lanes or protect the QB at all.
He simply does not seem to have a point of view on how to win over time so its all dependent on people echoing their confirmation bias to him
As for Solder, i honestly dont know if he is being asked to cover to the inside gap so hernandez can cover to the center gap on the thesis that Eli gets more time if the inside holds and the centers are the first and biggest vulnerability of the line? Is his arm badly hurt but there is no one else?
We do not know enough to fully understand his results.
Of the three Id say DG. I just did not see the alarm bells on the OL that matches the OL situation. This is not hard. we ended last year with no real even close to average LT, RG, Center, LG or RT. Much less any average depth. Think about that. Everyone knew that. How did we hid the BBGOFO ( Big Blinding Glimpse of the Fucking Obvious) in plain sight from ourselves from DG on down? I have no idea.
PATdestrian Shurmur was a very weak hire. Thinking Eli Manning could be dominate again and signing garbage players while giving away good ones has looked very bad so far.
Eli ? He's the greatest QB in Giants history. His ability to engineer comebacks, work with less than stellar OL's and RB's may be among the best in NFL history. But now he's done. He should have retired last year just as Archie hinted he should. Its painful to watch him now, but like many fading star athletes he doesn't realize that he can no longer get it done. I can't blame him for that. I blame the owner who can't make a tough decision.
Shurmer ? The only mistake he made was taking this job to begin with. He was set up for failure from day 1. He's been saddled with a QB who has nothing left, a backup QB, Webb who was no damned good an an OL that is 4/5 no good. With the right material he may have been a good coach. Unfortunately for him, I don't think he's going to be around long enough for us to find out.
And it's impossible to evaluate Joe Namath, Dan Marino, or Eli Manning behind the worst OL in high school history.
Why again did we hire this guy?
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
Of the trio listed to choose from, Shurmur. I am disappointed in some of his coaching hires and the overall performance of his team, particularly the offense.
Great post Red Dog.
Eli
Dg
Coach
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
The fact that the “hand of god comment” bothers some of you so much is mind blowing. And instead of it being a tongue and cheek comment (which was its intent) it’s now bringing religion into it. Dramatic or no?
The blocking from the interior line and RBs is the worst part of our current pass game. Eli has no pocket to step up into.
The answer is easily Gettleman.
Gettleman was hired by Accorsi because he believed, after only watching one game, that Eli still had the goods.
Gettleman drafted Barkley instead of a QB. There were other RB solutions in the draft.
Gettleman hired Shurmur, who makes me long for the days of McAdoo.
Gettleman drinks the "Giants Way" kool-aid.
Gettleman approaches modern day football like Ted Kaczymiski.
Re Eli: I don't know how to gauge what he's doing. He was sacked 31 times in 8 games. That's ridiculous. Yet on the other hand he's getting criticized for dumping the ball off too much. Should he stand in the pocket and wait for slow-developing long passes? Usually, when he tries that, he gets sacked. I don't think any QB -- mobile or not -- would be playing well under these conditions. Might someone else do better? Maybe. He hasn't been all that accurate when he has been able to get the ball out. The offense rarely looks crisp; other teams often look sharp and efficient even when they're losing. The one constant over the years of mediocre and bad regular seasons is Eli. I love the guy but it's true.
Re Gettleman: Talks a great game, seems to have nailed the draft, will look even better if Beal and McIntosh pan out. (I think both are long shots, but I'd love to be wrong about that.) The O-line fiasco and the general suckitude of the free agent signings makes his first off-season a wash. But the guy was fighting cancer, too. Maybe he should have stepped aside, but what's past is past.
Here's one thing I give Gettleman and Shurmur some credit for: They've been aggressive about getting rid of guys who won't be part of the solution (Apple, Flowers, Snacks) and about churning the bottom of the roster. They seem to be decisive about making changes, even if some of those changes are going to hurt in the short term. They said all the right things about a clean slate, etc. but when they've seen a problem, they've taken action. The one big exception is Eli's play, but getting rid of Eli isn't addition by subtraction. If there were an upgrade available, I think they'd make the move. There really isn't. Nobody's an upgrade if the line is this bad.
Eli is who I thought he is.
Gettleman has been shit with the exception of what looks like a few solid draft picks. I don’t count Saquon among those because he passed on players of greater value, including (and especially) the QBs.
Going for 2 against Atlanta was actually a call that made sense - people are getting on him for that unjustly.
I agree with the going for the two call, my point was, that if you are going to play the percentages game, you can't just pick and choose when to when to do it. It should be a part of you game plan going forward. For instance, taking a chance on a long field goal instead of punting, etc.
To me going for two in that situation and not leveraging similar, high-probability, non-scoring situations would be equivalent to employing the shift once in baseball, it not working and then never going back to it again. The reason the shift works is if you regularly implement it. More often than not, it will work.
So to see Shurmur not implement that in the redskins game was disappointing; eschewing the long field goal attempt, etc.
Eli got us two rings; he's 37 years old and sick and tired of having a sieve of an OL for the last 5 years. Yes his play has dropped off, but Eli of 10 years ago wouldn't have fared much better with the shitty line they've had
Disappointed, no. Ready for him to retire.
But that's the whole thing about the line playing as a unit. Nothing works until everything works. Or, at least, nothing works well until everything works adequately.
His 3rd round picks look pretty good, but he took a running back with the #2 pick and the 2nd round pick while good basically anyone on BBI would have made, everyone wanted Hernandez.
DG's comments about analytics are scary as fuck. Bringing religion into why he drafted a player is also scary as fuck.
His age (and health) also are a huge issue. How can you expect someone his age and with his health to be looking even 5 years down the road?
Everything they did in the off-season was geared towards another run with Eli and anyone who believed this team could compete this year should no longer be employed by the Giants. Mara can't fire himself but everyone else should go
This.
Then the Shurminator. Is there real evidence thus far he’s really an upgrade over McAdoo? I really don’t see a discernible difference between the two with regard to the on the field product.
Not fond of his dismissal of analytics.
Not fond of his joking about hotdogs and a bag of doughnuts, when apparently he did have reasonable offers (I was in favor of trading back)
Quote:
Last week, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman said the only offers he was receiving for the No. 2 pick in the draft were for "a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog."
But speaking to WFAN's "The Afternoon Drive With Carlin, Maggie & Bart" on Monday, Gettleman revealed he did receive "one very reasonable offer."
https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/dave-gettleman-wfan-giants-had-very-reasonable-offer-no-2-pick
Some really bad FA signings, although I don't blame him for Solder. If he didn't sign him, how could he look Eli in the face and tell him to go out there and win with Flowers protecting his blind side again.
S
How could he have explained his lack of protection on his blindside if he got Norwell instead? Remember DG's 1st attempt was Norwell. It was NOT to protect Eli blindside.
Quote:
Remember that almost all of the sub-issues being listed here are because of Dave Gettleman and John Mara.
If you're disappointed in Nate Solder, well.. who decided he was worth that contract?
If you're disappointed in Pat Shurmur, well.. who decided he was the right coach to hire?
If you're disappointed in Eli Manning, well... who decided he still had "years left" ?
It always starts at the top.
You can always blame management when it comes to a shifty toster. But sometimes players have to go do their jobs. Nate Solder was never a the best tackle in the league. But he is sure ain’t one of the worst. But he is playing like it.
And a lot of this shit roster is because of Reese and Ross as well.
If the Roster was so bad as you suggest (Which I agree with) then why do you go after SOlder?
1a--- ANd if you think it was only to protect Eli's blindside why not get someone who was cheaper? WHy get an old LT on a team going nowhere if you know you were going to stink?
1b-- If you are going to use the make believe made up excuse that you needed a an older extremely overpaid LT and that was a logical plan then how can you explain how hard DG went after Norwell 1st? If he got Norwell what was the plan to protect ELi's blindside if that was so important?
The OL mess is on him and that’s enough. It’s the most important unit and he blew it.
Going into the NFL season with no pass rush. 2nd most important unit and we have nothing here except Vernon. Swing and a miss again.
Trading for ogletree and that deal? He’s ok. But we traded to pay him $10 mill for that game? Bad move.
Stewart? It was clear as day that this guy was finished.
Who did he have scouting the existing NFL talent and FA? That crew blew it.
I don't give a shit if the guy is methuselah if he knows how to assemble a good roster.
Think of Gettleman as a consultant brought in to be the "bad guy".
He took this job full well knowing his role was.to.come.in, trim allmof the fat and move on in 3-4 years. He is the doctor tasked with giving this team the enema it needed.
I didn't have big expectations of Eli, he's been declining the past two seasons and it has continued, even accelerated.
Everything about that process was a disappointment, from the bringing in of Toupee Ernie as a "consultant" to the phony "GM search" to the hiring of the least inspiring candidate possible.
I don't give a shit if the guy is methuselah if he knows how to assemble a good roster.
Think of Gettleman as a consultant brought in to be the "bad guy".
He took this job full well knowing his role was.to.come.in, trim allmof the fat and move on in 3-4 years. He is the doctor tasked with giving this team the enema it needed.
This is the worst logic I've heard when discussing Gettleman.
They needed a bad guy? You think that any other GM couldn't come in and purge the roster for fear he'd develop a reputation?
The NFL is notorious for constant roster churn/turnover. No GM would have a hard time coming in and pulling the trigger on a bunch of guys who were underperforming and brought in by the previous GM.
3. Shurmur
I think it's hard to evaluate Shurmur and specifically his offense because of how bad Eli is. Yes, the OL has been awful, but as those who break down film have illustrated, there have been several instances each game where Eli missed plays despite good protection. And some of them (e.g goalline rollout that should've went to Beckham) were not difficult reads/throws. Shurmur drew up and called a great play there. Eli failed to execute.
Love DG's 1st draft, but obviously disappointed with some of his FA signings. Probably less so the Solder signing than most, but the Stewart/Omameh/Martin signings made no sense on any level.