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If Bill Belichick is available, should the Giants go All-In?

NYG27 : 11/4/2018 12:33 pm
It's been rumored for a few years that there is friction between Kraft, Belicheck and Brady. If for whatever reason, if Belichick is available, should the Giants revamp their whole front office structure and hire Bill as both GM/Head Coach?
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RE: Why do posters get mad when this is brought up?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/4/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14164064 Sean said:
Quote:
It’s a message board during a miserable season. There is obviously smoke regarding friction in NE. The Giants are a disaster right now, the stars may align for Belichick to come & attempt to resurrect this franchise.


How likely is it that John Mara is going to reverse course on a GM and coach hire after one year and just give the franchise over to Belichick?

"stars may align" indeed.
Shurmur  
SHO'NUFF : 11/4/2018 1:01 pm : link
wouldn't be a big loss
Doubt he would have any passion left for the game  
Foobarbaz : 11/4/2018 1:03 pm : link
I been working at my new job for 2 months and already sick of it, idk how Belichick is able to do same shit for decades
RE: Doubt he would have any passion left for the game  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 11/4/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14164100 Foobarbaz said:
Quote:
I been working at my new job for 2 months and already sick of it, idk how Belichick is able to do same shit for decades



Lolololol
I don't give a shit about Pat Shurmur at this point.  
Optimus-NY : 11/4/2018 1:18 pm : link
He does not impress me. Coach Milquetoast.
This scenario not going to happen, but the idea of installing him as  
Ben in Tampa : 11/4/2018 1:19 pm : link
President is an interesting idea.
If it was ever going to happen it was last offseason  
moespree : 11/4/2018 1:31 pm : link
Giants needed a GM and a coach at the exact same time reports were Belichick was not getting along with Brady and Kraft. I can't think of a better time if it was ever going to happen. But it didn't. And I doubt it ever will.
This will probably  
Pete in MD : 11/4/2018 1:31 pm : link
never happen but will always linger in the background. Obviously, BB feels a loyal to the NYG and Maras. If you watched the 30 for 30 documentary it’s very clear. Too many things would have to come together with money, power, timing for this to ever be a reality.
Why do posters get mad?  
joeinpa : 11/4/2018 1:44 pm : link
I have never been able to understand the annoyance some instinctively feel for topics they believe are not valid.

It s a message board!

To the point, I still think of Belichick as a Giant.
If it was going to happen it would have already.  
Big Blue '56 : 11/4/2018 2:15 pm : link
He’ll come here after he’s washed up. Larry Brown won everywhere until he came to the Knicks. Same with Don Nelson
Not me ... I think he's a genuine asshole... I'll pass  
baadbill : 11/4/2018 2:17 pm : link
.
I think MOST nfl teams  
bradshaw44 : 11/4/2018 2:18 pm : link
Would cast out their entire FO and coaching staff if BB came to the table. Seriously, I would argue 25-28 nfl teams would dump everyone to bring him in. So of course we should.
While I'd love to get BB here  
JohnF : 11/4/2018 2:35 pm : link
He won't leave Kraft on good terms, and the odds of him getting any of his staff are as close to zero as you can get.

Let's look at the NE coaching staff:

Offensive Coordinator: Josh McDaniels, 10 years as OC, 15 years overall.

Offensive Line: Dante Scarnecchia (Bill's secret weapon), 33 years with NE, 47 years overall.

RB Coach: Ivan Fears, 22 years with NE, 28th overall.

WR Coach: Chad O'Shea, 15 years with NE, 22th overall

LB Coach: Brian Flores, 3rd year as NE LB Coach, before that Safeties coach for 5 years with NE.

CB Coach: Josh Boyer, 7 years with NE as CB Coach, 3 years with NE as DB coach.

Special Teams: Joe Judge, 4 years with NE as ST coach, 3 years before that as NE Assistant ST coach.

Look at that stability. You have very good coaches who have installed systems for a long time under Belichick, something he won't have if he comes here. Bill would have to re-build and re-train his staff, install his offensive and defensive systems, and find a QB that can run his offense.

That's a tall order at 66 years old. I think that's been part of the issue here, Shurmur's hire was late enough so that he couldn't get all the coaches he wanted here, (example, our current OL coach). I expect changes in the off season to the Giants staff as the coaches are evaluated.
I'd think it is a  
BigBlueinDE : 11/4/2018 2:37 pm : link
remote possibility, but if he becomes available and would be willing to come to NY, you'd be foolish not to at least consider it as an option.
RE: ...  
BigBlueinDE : 11/4/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14164049 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I would not discount this as a possibility.


Really? Inside sources or an educated guess?
I would do anything  
longlive#10 : 11/4/2018 2:39 pm : link
But people are fooling themselves if they don't think ownerships stance would be "well.. let's give Shurmur a fair shot"

Shurmur will be given at least 4 seasons cause that's how we do things (unless the entire locker room turns on him like Mac)

I'd bounce his was outta here at the end of the year. If Bellicheck was availible I'd bounce his was out yesterday.
Yes  
GeorgeAdams33 : 11/4/2018 2:46 pm : link
I would give him total control, even over ownership, in all personnel decisions. I would let him train everyone on his philosophies concerning what to look for in players. I'd let him revamp the scouting department. I would let him do whatever he wants. This job would be very important to him. He might even keep DG, Shurmur, Bettcher, etc. around. I would be very happy to have him as our head coach/head of football operations.
RE: I would do anything  
arcarsenal : 11/4/2018 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14164203 longlive#10 said:
Quote:
But people are fooling themselves if they don't think ownerships stance would be "well.. let's give Shurmur a fair shot"

Shurmur will be given at least 4 seasons cause that's how we do things (unless the entire locker room turns on him like Mac)

I'd bounce his was outta here at the end of the year. If Bellicheck was availible I'd bounce his was out yesterday.


At least 4 seasons?

I don't believe that for a second.

McAdoo didn't even get two. Why is Pat Shurmur going to get "at least 4" ?
I'd trade Barkley and this year's 1st round pick  
Default : 11/4/2018 2:54 pm : link
for him if he came in and had full control with no Mara meddling.

Until the Mara's stop meddling this team is going to continue to be shit.
RE: RE: I would do anything  
Big Blue '56 : 11/4/2018 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14164213 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14164203 longlive#10 said:


Quote:


But people are fooling themselves if they don't think ownerships stance would be "well.. let's give Shurmur a fair shot"

Shurmur will be given at least 4 seasons cause that's how we do things (unless the entire locker room turns on him like Mac)

I'd bounce his was outta here at the end of the year. If Bellicheck was availible I'd bounce his was out yesterday.



At least 4 seasons?

I don't believe that for a second.

McAdoo didn't even get two. Why is Pat Shurmur going to get "at least 4" ?


His suits fit better
Is this a serious question?  
djm : 11/4/2018 3:57 pm : link
Of course they should.
This is easy  
Jay on the Island : 11/4/2018 4:22 pm : link
Belichick should be brought in if available and I don’t know how anyone could say no to this. In my opinion I think Belichick might decide to give up coaching but he will be open to coming here in the same capacity as Coughlin in Jacksonville which I would be 100% behind. He might be able to convince Dante Scarnecchia to come over as OL coach.

Adding Belichick to the organization is exactly the boost this franchise needs. Hand him a blank check and let’s move forward with him.
Why would we want the goat?  
larryflower37 : 11/4/2018 4:33 pm : link
You give him whatever he wants.
No  
Thinblueline : 11/4/2018 4:45 pm : link
Belichick is only as good as Tom Brady... We have no Tom Brady lol
RE: .  
markky : 11/4/2018 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14164069 Banks said:
Quote:
there are like 4 head coaches that coached past the age of 67. I can't see Belichick wanting to build a new team this late in age nor do I see him coaching that much longer. It's a nice dream, but I can't see this happening


when you're 67 you don't think that way.
I'm assuming Eric's "optimism" is based on this:  
CT Charlie : 11/4/2018 5:21 pm : link
If BB decided he wanted to leave NE because: 1) Brady is aging or injured, 2) BB wants to move on from Brady but Kraft won't let him, 3) BB woulld like to prove that he can win without Brady -- to cement his legacy as the best ever, and 4) BB still has an emotional connection to the Giants.... All he'd have to do is call Mara, and Mara would say Yes.

A friend who's a Pats fan just gave me Ian O'Connor's bio of BB, and after reading it I'm not convinced that BB is ready to hang up his hoodie, or that he loves Brady except as a prototypical smart, competitive QB.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 11/4/2018 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14164049 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I would not discount this as a possibility.


At his age now, 66, I think it's reasonable to conclude he's not into reclamation projects like the Giants. He's chasing rings.

And this is the key reason why this will never happen, Jints Central is too stupid to allow Belichick to be the COO and run EVERYTHING. Like too many teams, they are stuck in this antiquated model of GM & HC being two different people.
There is virtually no chance  
Mike from Ohio : 11/4/2018 5:34 pm : link
Belichick becomes available. If he does, there is probably even less chance he wants to start over with a bottom feeder and rebuild.

Having said that, if those things happened and Belichick would talk to them, Mara needs to tell him to write down everything he wants on a piece of paper, and then Mara needs to silently agree to everything on that piece of paper. If BB write “I get to punch you in the nuts every morning,” Mara needs to agree.

But I think we all know that isn’t how Mara operates. He’d likely insist on keeping DG to be GM and getting a couple more years out of Eli.
RE: RE: ...  
steve in ky : 11/4/2018 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14164491 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14164049 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I would not discount this as a possibility.



At his age now, 66, I think it's reasonable to conclude he's not into reclamation projects like the Giants. He's chasing rings.

And this is the key reason why this will never happen, Jints Central is too stupid to allow Belichick to be the COO and run EVERYTHING. Like too many teams, they are stuck in this antiquated model of GM & HC being two different people.


Other than Belichick how many head coaches that were also the GM won Super Bowls? I think the model of GM & HC as two different people still dominates in championships.
How about Bill Parcells  
joe48 : 11/4/2018 6:54 pm : link
C’mon man!
Believe it when I see it.  
Giant John : 11/4/2018 7:51 pm : link
Don’t think it will happen.
Maybe they wanted Kyle Lauletta so bad in NE last year  
smshmth8690 : 11/4/2018 7:55 pm : link
that BB will do anything to coach him?
Kidding of course, but if you have the opportunity to add one of the all-time great football minds back into your franchise you do it, in whatever capacity he would like to take part.
It's been the elephant in the war room  
JonC : 11/4/2018 8:59 pm : link
for at least two or three recent offseasons.
Hey, if people can get behind losing for two years straight  
jcn56 : 11/4/2018 9:02 pm : link
with the intention of landing one specific player in the draft, then I can hold out hope that the greatest DC in Giants history and best coach of all time decided to come back home to finish up his career.

Ain't gonna happen, but if you're going to dream, might as well dream big.
I’m sure  
Les in TO : 11/4/2018 9:05 pm : link
The giants would have to give up three first round picks to even be in the mix assuming Bill would be fine with a coach only role
How is this a question?  
Go Terps : 11/4/2018 9:20 pm : link
The Giants would be better off trading their entire roster for Belichick and his staff as opposed to what they have now.

If we're willing to pay Beckham, or Eli, or anyone else $100M against the cap then Belichick is worth a billion dollars in an uncapped situation.
Yes of course you do it  
Jerry in DC : 11/4/2018 9:25 pm : link
Even if it's only for 3 years, that's 3 better years than you would have with anyone else. And hopefully his intelligence, curiosity, and organizational structure would rub off on others. It could have positive long term impact on player, ownership, etc.

It would also make things more interesting as a fan. I would be curious to see what he could/would do here. Considering how boring this team has been for a long time, that alone might make it worth it.
RE: ...  
NikkiMac : 11/5/2018 2:29 am : link
In comment 14164049 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I would not discount this as a possibility.


Lately I’ve been feeling the Sam Eric
I think Marv Levy was the oldest coach  
Gman11 : 11/5/2018 8:03 am : link
He was about 130 when the Bills brought him back. In fact, I'm not sure he was still alive. It may have been the zombie Levy.

Seriously, I'm on both sides of the issue. Belichick is certainly in the discussion for the greatest coach ever in the NFL. That would be reason to get him. However, he might look at the talent level on this team and say to himself how did I get myself into this mess?

Remember, Vince Lombardi didn't have a winning season with Washington. Hank Stram didn't do much winning in New Orleans. Great coaches can't make champions out of lousy players.
A few things to keep in mind  
JonC : 11/5/2018 8:14 am : link
Bill will be 67 next year. While it doesn't instantly disqualify him, you never know when someone will reach the point of diminishing returns. Also, it's very likely there's a contract in place which means compensation to NE in order to release him. Can't count on Kraft doing BB or NYG a solid. Last, at his age you have to wonder if he's up for the challenge of rebuilding NYG without a QB in place.
Didn't the NFL make compensating teams for coaching hires  
jcn56 : 11/5/2018 8:27 am : link
illegal after the whole Parcells mess in NE?

Not to mention that nobody knows BB's contract structure - it's been long rumored that he doesn't have a long term contract, just a year to year contract that he could walk away from easily.

His age would certainly be a concern, but the big question mark there seems to be his son. I would imagine BB wants to set up his son somewhere, and the Pats seem to be earmarked for McDaniels when he steps down.
RE: A few things to keep in mind  
Sean : 11/5/2018 8:28 am : link
In comment 14165156 JonC said:
Quote:
Bill will be 67 next year. While it doesn't instantly disqualify him, you never know when someone will reach the point of diminishing returns. Also, it's very likely there's a contract in place which means compensation to NE in order to release him. Can't count on Kraft doing BB or NYG a solid. Last, at his age you have to wonder if he's up for the challenge of rebuilding NYG without a QB in place.


Age didn’t seem to matter with Gettleman.
Age/DG  
JonC : 11/5/2018 8:31 am : link
doesn't make it a good, sound decision either. Some of his own comments are revealing in terms of being behind the modern curve, imo. Not that this would be an issue for BB, but it's just to say you don't know how long he'll be able to keep up the pace.

As to his contract, I don't know for sure but the beat info I've heard a few times is that this data point isn't being reported in full truth by the media.
RE: I think Marv Levy was the oldest coach  
FStubbs : 11/5/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 14165148 Gman11 said:
Quote:
He was about 130 when the Bills brought him back. In fact, I'm not sure he was still alive. It may have been the zombie Levy.

Seriously, I'm on both sides of the issue. Belichick is certainly in the discussion for the greatest coach ever in the NFL. That would be reason to get him. However, he might look at the talent level on this team and say to himself how did I get myself into this mess?

Remember, Vince Lombardi didn't have a winning season with Washington. Hank Stram didn't do much winning in New Orleans. Great coaches can't make champions out of lousy players.


Nope - Vince Lombardi was 7-5-2 in his first season in Washington before unfortunately dying of cancer. They went to the Superbowl a few years later so it's clear he put them on the right path.

Belichick though? As pointed out, I'd be concerned it would just be a way for him to try to set his son up. I'd want him to bring his whole organization if he did come back, since I am highly suspect of the Giants scouts. And he'd have to get rid of Chris Mara.

This is a fun fantasy at best.
Re: DG/age-  
Sean : 11/5/2018 8:37 am : link
I really think Abrams was the guy long term. The problem Mara has now, if things don’t turn around there is no way he can sell it to the fans.
That and Abrams isn't really a football guy  
JonC : 11/5/2018 8:41 am : link
he's a numbers guy, as far as I know. Not sure he's got the actual football/scouting accumen or not.
RE: Didn't the NFL make compensating teams for coaching hires  
FJ : 11/5/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14165168 jcn56 said:
Quote:
illegal after the whole Parcells mess in NE?

Not to mention that nobody knows BB's contract structure - it's been long rumored that he doesn't have a long term contract, just a year to year contract that he could walk away from easily.

His age would certainly be a concern, but the big question mark there seems to be his son. I would imagine BB wants to set up his son somewhere, and the Pats seem to be earmarked for McDaniels when he steps down.
. No. The Patriots
compensated the Jets when they hired BB. And the Bucs compensated the Raiders to get Chuckie.
RE: That and Abrams isn't really a football guy  
Tesla : 11/5/2018 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14165185 JonC said:
Quote:
he's a numbers guy, as far as I know. Not sure he's got the actual football/scouting accumen or not.


Hiring Abrams would be an outrage of the highest order. You don't hire a glorified CPA with zero "football" experience to run your franchise, no matter how swell he is and how much everyone thinks he's a nice guy.

RE: RE: That and Abrams isn't really a football guy  
JonC : 11/5/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14165603 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 14165185 JonC said:


Quote:


he's a numbers guy, as far as I know. Not sure he's got the actual football/scouting accumen or not.



Hiring Abrams would be an outrage of the highest order. You don't hire a glorified CPA with zero "football" experience to run your franchise, no matter how swell he is and how much everyone thinks he's a nice guy.


It's been speculated that's the plan, not heard of any change as yet. Let's hope the continued sucktitude convinces Mara it's time for more progressive measures.
As a GM maybe coach I doubt it  
Bluesbreaker : 11/5/2018 2:07 pm : link
Not at 66 I didn't realize he was that old .
Gonna tear it down again ?
I just don't see that happening unless DG has another
setback . Shurmur is totally dispensable at this point .
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