Damn. I was going to mention him, but you beat me to it. 3 SB rings with the Giants - not to mention his resume in building the Jags. Interesting that his 5 year waiting period has already begun. I think he'll be eligible in 2 years.
retired in top 10 in rush yards and yards from scrimmage, a boatload of tds, and a super bowl mvp. If you look at his prime years from 79-84, only walter payton has more rush yards or yards from scrimmage at the position. He spent 5 years in the top 5 in yards from scrimmage. That's better than a lot of guys in the HoF. There's a lot of talk of Tiki, but many forget Anderson. He's not getting at this point imo
has been forgotten. He was on pace to have to have a Hall of Fame-type career until that fuckin Eagles game.
Among players that have been retired for at least 5 years, it's fair to say that Shockey had a strong enough finish to his career to be thrown in to the conversation.
I loved George Martin. Most people credited credited Carson as the heart of the team but I always thought it was Martin. And this isn't trying to take anything away from the great Harry Carson either.
Not sure though if he is HOF
Leonard Marshall. Imo huge doscredit to the voters Â
But punters just don't make it it, other than Guy. But Jennings was so dominant at his position he deserves consideration.
While not as dominant as Jennings was a punter, Bob Tucker was a pretty dominant TE for the period he played but not sure how his numbers compare to those that are in.
RE: Leonard Marshall. Imo huge doscredit to the voters Â
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
He didn't retire yet or it has not been 5 years yet.... he will be there.
Actually, the 5 year waiting period only pertains to active players and coaching. Front office executives do not have to wait. Of course, a front office executive rarely is considered, but Tom would be entering based on his coaching merits. His waiting period began ticking when he took the advisor role in the league office before his role as Executive VP of Football Operations.
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
Hey Bruce. Hope ur well. He was a major pass rush threat as a 3/4 DE. How many of those are there still? And IMO he could play today. Just t a force. I really think he was just over shadowed by the LB corps. Shouldn’t have been if u know football
Still play today at the size he was.
best player in NFL history who is not in the HOF, amazing that you guys didn't mention him more. Second would be Jimmy Patton, others would be Phil Simms, OJ Anderson, and Tiki Barber.
RE: Charlie Conerly is not only the best Giant not in the HOF, he is the Â
best player in NFL history who is not in the HOF, amazing that you guys didn't mention him more. Second would be Jimmy Patton, others would be Phil Simms, OJ Anderson, and Tiki Barber.
Yeah, good call he should be in
RE: Charlie Conerly is not only the best Giant not in the HOF, he is the Â
best player in NFL history who is not in the HOF, amazing that you guys didn't mention him more. Second would be Jimmy Patton, others would be Phil Simms, OJ Anderson, and Tiki Barber.
I mentioned OJ earlier today. It really is a crime that a RB like Floyd Little is in but the better OJA isn't. Really embarrassing...
How is Spyder Lockhart not in the Ring of Honor? He was one of the few bright spots on a terrible team throughout the 70's. He died in '86 and the Giants wore a patch to honor him that year. I always thought it was so fitting that they won their first Super Bowl that year. He should be in the ring of honor.
..and George Young is the one Giant that should be in the Hall IMO.
Great Phil Simms fan, but he was hurt a lot and didn't QB that second Super Bowl. His stats also would have been higher.
Bavaro also would have been a HOFer had he not hurt his knee and played longer at his peak level.
Banks was a terrific LB...but again, it's the length of time he played at that level. Banks really was - dare I see this - better than LT from a period of late 1986 thru 1987.
Phil Simms! He has better stats then most HoF qb's! With the huge NY Â
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
He was at your daughter's wedding? How does that happen?
OJ isn't the first name that comes to mind because Â
As I posted in the past, he is one of only 3 players with 10K rushing and 5K receiving. The other two are Marcus Allen and Marshall Faulk - - both HOFs.
RE: RE: RE: Leonard Marshall. Imo huge doscredit to the voters Â
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
He was at your daughter's wedding? How does that happen?
My daughter was close friends with LM and his wife. They all lived in Boca
And I just don't think the voters are sophisticated enough to understand what an integral part of the run game Bavaro played with his blocking. Basically he was another T.
...while LT grabbed the headlines, Carl Banks was quietly the best linebacker in football in 85 and 86. Infrequently, I'll watch games from the 86' playoffs, including SBXXI. Carl Banks was an insane force during that period, blowing up anything and everything that came his way.
Likewise, Tiki Barber was overshadowed by Ladanian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson and Sean Alexander but was better than all, absolutely uncatchable in space, and was able to overcome poor O-line play with uncanny cutback ability. Came about 40 yards shy of Marshall Faulks record for total yards in a season. His career statistics are something to behold - if you've never seen them on paper, look them up. THREE seasons over 1500 yards rushing, over 10,000 yards for his career at 4.7ypc! How is THAT not HOF?
Simms was sacked a lot. The 84, 85 and 86 OL he was sacked 55, 52 and 45 times.That is a lot for a 14-2 team in 1986.
It was a lot, but Simms, like Eli, held the ball as long as he could, always looking to make that play. He could have probably cut his totals in half (or more) if he simply dumped off more like so many other QBs do
based on my definition of the HOF the Giants have too many gripes (from the LT era and later).
Tiki would have been a lock if he played a couple more seasons, easily would have been considered one of the best all around RB's ever. But I think you have to respect a little bit that he walked away on his terms, as much as the manner in which he did it and the timing bothered me as a fan.
I think if he wasn't injured Bavaro would be a lock, but he was injured and longevity should play a part in HOF selection.
Some people maybe say Simms, but he doesn't get in if I'm a voter and I was a huge Simms fan. Great SB, and a few good/great years, but not enough. Somewhat like baseball's Roger Maris. Simms didn't break a hallowed record, but 22 for 25 and SB MVP was a historic and iconic performance, but not enough to boost his other shortcomings and get him in the HOF.
Tuck could have been MVP of 2 SB's and maybe would have had a case, but Eli deserved both as much and won them instead of Tuck.
None of the other players really had all the pillars I think you need: stats (yes, sorry, just the way it is), accolades (whether it all-pros, pro-bowls, MVP, SB MVP, etc.) and rings, usually if you endure long enough you compile relevant stats and if you have enough accolades you can get in without a ring, but a ring helps to lessen the necessity of the other two (for me).
Eli will be interesting. He's better than Plunkett, but he's so polarizing.
RE: RE: I always though those mid 80s Offensive lines were great but Â
Simms was sacked a lot. The 84, 85 and 86 OL he was sacked 55, 52 and 45 times.That is a lot for a 14-2 team in 1986.
It was a lot, but Simms, like Eli, held the ball as long as he could, always looking to make that play. He could have probably cut his totals in half (or more) if he simply dumped off more like so many other QBs do
So many other QBs ... like Montana. I still say Montana never would have had the success Simms had if they had switched teams. Simms was tougher than Montana in Montana's wildest dreams.
All of these other guys you can name 4 better players at their positions all time. I honestly think Bavaro was inside the top 5 TE you'd want on your team of all time.
All of these other guys you can name 4 better players at their positions all time. I honestly think Bavaro was inside the top 5 TE you'd want on your team of all time.
Couldn't agree more.
RE: RE: I don't think George Martin is in the HOF Â
George Martin and Leonard Marshall were two essential cogs in a well-oiled machine. Both were critical to the Giants success at that time. I would vote for both of them for the HOF.
I loved George Martin. Most people credited credited Carson as the heart of the team but I always thought it was Martin. And this isn't trying to take anything away from the great Harry Carson either.
Not sure though if he is HOF
Bavaro would be there if it weren't for Vencie Glenn Â
Case closed.
Well you gotta be specific!!!
Haha
Damn. I was going to mention him, but you beat me to it. 3 SB rings with the Giants - not to mention his resume in building the Jags. Interesting that his 5 year waiting period has already begun. I think he'll be eligible in 2 years.
Was just thinking about those 86 Giants Linebackers. Taylor, Banks, Carson and Reasons. Beasts
How he is not in after all these years mystifies me.
Banks #1, Simms #2
And Barber should have his number completely erased from the stadium
He didn't retire yet or it has not been 5 years yet.... he will be there.
No... and they played different positions too.
Among players that have been retired for at least 5 years, it's fair to say that Shockey had a strong enough finish to his career to be thrown in to the conversation.
I loved George Martin. Most people credited credited Carson as the heart of the team but I always thought it was Martin. And this isn't trying to take anything away from the great Harry Carson either.
Not sure though if he is HOF
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
While not as dominant as Jennings was a punter, Bob Tucker was a pretty dominant TE for the period he played but not sure how his numbers compare to those that are in.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
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Tom Coughlin
He didn't retire yet or it has not been 5 years yet.... he will be there.
Actually, the 5 year waiting period only pertains to active players and coaching. Front office executives do not have to wait. Of course, a front office executive rarely is considered, but Tom would be entering based on his coaching merits. His waiting period began ticking when he took the advisor role in the league office before his role as Executive VP of Football Operations.
He is the NFL career leader in yards per reception
Maybe if he didn’t take his sweet ass time getting the next book out
Quote:
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
Hey Bruce. Hope ur well. He was a major pass rush threat as a 3/4 DE. How many of those are there still? And IMO he could play today. Just t a force. I really think he was just over shadowed by the LB corps. Shouldn’t have been if u know football
Still play today at the size he was.
He is the NFL career leader in yards per reception
He's got a bit of an internet history which has really tarnished his reputation.
Yeah, good call he should be in
I mentioned OJ earlier today. It really is a crime that a RB like Floyd Little is in but the better OJA isn't. Really embarrassing...
Don't forget Bill Walsh, called him the best TE in the league.
Del Shofner and Ray Weitecha
Well Sean does have a career higher punt average.
Having said that, I do understand changes in training lend itself in this area (like with kickers and distance).....
Great Phil Simms fan, but he was hurt a lot and didn't QB that second Super Bowl. His stats also would have been higher.
Bavaro also would have been a HOFer had he not hurt his knee and played longer at his peak level.
Banks was a terrific LB...but again, it's the length of time he played at that level. Banks really was - dare I see this - better than LT from a period of late 1986 thru 1987.
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He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
Quote:
In comment 14164259 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
He was a monster. Lost amid the greatness of Taylor and Carson. Bavaro is next. He was as good but career much shorter. Banks as well.
Love Simms but his skill set not close to those 3 IMO
I never even thought about Marshall for the HOF even though he was indeed a monster, UNTIL, at my daughter’s wedding about 10 years ago, he said, “in all the years I played, who was better?” In the overall, I couldn’t think of anyone
He was at your daughter's wedding? How does that happen?
My daughter was close friends with LM and his wife. They all lived in Boca
And I just don't think the voters are sophisticated enough to understand what an integral part of the run game Bavaro played with his blocking. Basically he was another T.
Likewise, Tiki Barber was overshadowed by Ladanian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson and Sean Alexander but was better than all, absolutely uncatchable in space, and was able to overcome poor O-line play with uncanny cutback ability. Came about 40 yards shy of Marshall Faulks record for total yards in a season. His career statistics are something to behold - if you've never seen them on paper, look them up. THREE seasons over 1500 yards rushing, over 10,000 yards for his career at 4.7ypc! How is THAT not HOF?
NO! Banks had an incredible few years whereas Carson was great for a decade. not even close really.
Carson: 9 Pro bowls; 2 first team; 4 second team
Banks: 1 pro bowl; 1 first team
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Carson have similar careers? I know Carson campaigned for the HoF somewhat.
NO! Banks had an incredible few years whereas Carson was great for a decade. not even close really.
Carson: 9 Pro bowls; 2 first team; 4 second team
Banks: 1 pro bowl; 1 first team
Maybe because Banks was a beast when I started paying attention to the Giants as a kid. He only made one Pro Bowl? That sounds crazy.
I realize the defensive backs were allowed to be more physical with the Wrs during this time period which could have led to more sacks.
It was a lot, but Simms, like Eli, held the ball as long as he could, always looking to make that play. He could have probably cut his totals in half (or more) if he simply dumped off more like so many other QBs do
Tiki would have been a lock if he played a couple more seasons, easily would have been considered one of the best all around RB's ever. But I think you have to respect a little bit that he walked away on his terms, as much as the manner in which he did it and the timing bothered me as a fan.
I think if he wasn't injured Bavaro would be a lock, but he was injured and longevity should play a part in HOF selection.
Some people maybe say Simms, but he doesn't get in if I'm a voter and I was a huge Simms fan. Great SB, and a few good/great years, but not enough. Somewhat like baseball's Roger Maris. Simms didn't break a hallowed record, but 22 for 25 and SB MVP was a historic and iconic performance, but not enough to boost his other shortcomings and get him in the HOF.
Tuck could have been MVP of 2 SB's and maybe would have had a case, but Eli deserved both as much and won them instead of Tuck.
None of the other players really had all the pillars I think you need: stats (yes, sorry, just the way it is), accolades (whether it all-pros, pro-bowls, MVP, SB MVP, etc.) and rings, usually if you endure long enough you compile relevant stats and if you have enough accolades you can get in without a ring, but a ring helps to lessen the necessity of the other two (for me).
Eli will be interesting. He's better than Plunkett, but he's so polarizing.
Quote:
Simms was sacked a lot. The 84, 85 and 86 OL he was sacked 55, 52 and 45 times.That is a lot for a 14-2 team in 1986.
It was a lot, but Simms, like Eli, held the ball as long as he could, always looking to make that play. He could have probably cut his totals in half (or more) if he simply dumped off more like so many other QBs do
So many other QBs ... like Montana. I still say Montana never would have had the success Simms had if they had switched teams. Simms was tougher than Montana in Montana's wildest dreams.
Quote:
In comment 14164175 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
Carson have similar careers? I know Carson campaigned for the HoF somewhat.
NO! Banks had an incredible few years whereas Carson was great for a decade. not even close really.
Carson: 9 Pro bowls; 2 first team; 4 second team
Banks: 1 pro bowl; 1 first team
Maybe because Banks was a beast when I started paying attention to the Giants as a kid. He only made one Pro Bowl? That sounds crazy.
i know, i was shocked when i looked it up. i knew about harry, but thought banks had like 3 pro bowls and not only 1.
Only for about 2/3 years he was. Bettis was an awfully good running back.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote:
but, I would vote for George.
George Martin and Leonard Marshall were two essential cogs in a well-oiled machine. Both were critical to the Giants success at that time. I would vote for both of them for the HOF.
I loved George Martin. Most people credited credited Carson as the heart of the team but I always thought it was Martin. And this isn't trying to take anything away from the great Harry Carson either.
Not sure though if he is HOF