It's this talk that he's the greatest football player ever.
I just can't buy that after watching players like LT, Reggie White, Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, etc. Players who were using speed, strength, quickness, etc to change the game.
Brady is nowhere in that category of athlete/player. He plays a critical position that, ironically, requires less and less ability and skill to absorb physical contract. And for me, that just isn't football anymore...
But you're discounting the fact that Brady straddles two different eras in the NFL, and won multiple championships in both.
He won his first three Superbowls in an era that was absolutely more violent, as well as a lot harder to play offensive football where the defenders could mug WR's (pre-Polian Peyton rule changing), a strategy that the Patriots themselves utilized to perfection.
Let's be honest - the first SB was more Vinatieri than Brady. The two kicks he made in the snow against the Raiders in the division game were as good as it gets. And the first one courtesy of the tuck rule. And if you remember, Brady didn't play against the Steelers in the AFC Championship game - Bledsoe did. And then Vinatieri made the greatest clutch kick ever in the SB.
But the point of my post was about this narrative of Brady being the GOAT for any position in football. I just can't wrap my head around that on an "athlete" playing a sport who can't run, has no quickness, and isn't a pillar of football strength like a Roethlisberger.
And the defense got a safety and got the ball right back to us. That kind of one play drive can impact a game...and it did!
They had the ball 9 times. Scored on only 3. Our defense got points on one possession. Had an INT on another. And NE failed to come close to their season average of 32+ points/game.
They could not run the ball.
Brady dropped back 45 times for a net of 266 yards passing.
Giants D started by scoring and held them 2 TDS below their season average. Brady couldnt throw the ball down the field. He threw it 40+ times and avg under 7 YPA.
Because they didnt have the ball. And when they did, they moved it quite effectively. When your offense holds the ball for the entire game, its hard for the team to score. Pus, are you giving the defense for a blown coverage and missed passed that would have ended the game? Here are the Giants drives by number of plays.....
10
9
8
7
10
9
10
9
8 drives, all lasting at leas 7 plays. 37:00 minutes worth of possessions. You know where NE started their drives? 16 yard line. I am sorry, but the offense won us the SB, much like they did in SB 25 - by keeping the more explosive offense OFF the field.
If you want to give the defense all the credit, your agenda will remain constant. By if Brady hits a WIDE OPEN Welker.... the game is over and we lose.
No one is denying the offense didn't play very well (they would have scored more points if not for that stupid phantom holding call on Boothe), but the defense was tremendous.
NE still had the ball 9 times, and only scored on 3 of them. Brady was only sacked twice, but harassed most of the game (not as much as he was harassed/bit in SB 42, of course).
It was a complete effort What I have an issue is with you saying that the defense did "nothing"
dep's point was that KWALL attributes the Giants runs mainly to the defense, while giving credit to guys like Brees for their runs, even though his defense rose to the occasion as well.
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
you use outcomes that do not meet what actually happen.
1st drive - Brady has a mental error and throws it to the wrong place, not realizing what he was doing was wrong. If thats great defense, our standards have dropped dramatically.
2nd drive - 10 plays, 60 yards FG
3rd drive - 3 and out - good defense
4th drive - 14 plays 96 yards TD.
5th drive - 8 plays - 79 yards.
those two drives ended the half started the 2nd half that put us in a whole.
6th drive - 3 and out - great defense
7th drive - 5 plays, 23 yards - where Brady underthrew an open gronk and blackburn made a pick. great play by Chase, but it was a missed opportunity.
8th drive - 11 play drive punt where Brady missed a wide open Welker that would have ended the game. This is not good defense whatsoever. Again, if need to relay on blown coverage missed passes - the standard is low.
9th drive - Pats go 30 yards before the game ended. So we are now counting this as a stop?
Brady really hurt his team this game and it didnt have to do with a pass rush or great defense. He took a bad safety by not throwing it out of bounds. He missed an open Gronk and he missed a wide open Welker. If this constitutes the defense carrying the team on that day - well your agenda continues.
Ill give the proper credit to the offense and special teams controlling the ball and field position.
dep's point was that KWALL attributes the Giants runs mainly to the defense, while giving credit to guys like Brees for their runs, even though his defense rose to the occasion as well.
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
KWALL never has nor will he ever give Eli credit for anything.
We had this debate 1-2 years ago on here when it was about Eli > Brees. Talk was about Elis numbers in a dome (not much better than outside dome) and Brees outside and in cold. His Completion %, Td to Int, and QB rating was still HOF stuff in all of those road games.
Actually, you are the first one to bring up Eli.... but again.... carry on.
dep's point was that KWALL attributes the Giants runs mainly to the defense, while giving credit to guys like Brees for their runs, even though his defense rose to the occasion as well.
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
KWALL never has nor will he ever give Eli credit for anything.
KWALL may (or may not) have an agenda here, but it's pretty clear your Eli narrative is present as well.
It was a team effort, just leave it at that. Geez...
people are acting like rodgers hasnt played with some top end talent for his career. Like every single lineman was trash and he made every WR something out of nothing.
Rodgers is a great, great, great QB. But the fact he has only 1 SB does not put him in the same category as Brady.
RE: RE: RE: Regardless of the one game comparison...
Thats more BS. The point was made the 2011 defense stopped Rodgers and that is a knock on Rodgers in a debate of Rodgers vs Brady.
I pointed out the 2011 defense shut down Brady too.
That's bringing up Eli?
Or not giving him credit.
The point was clear. How can you knock Rodgers for his performance against the 2011 defense when Brady didn't do any better vs that same defense?
But this is about Eli in your world.
Actually you brought up Eli earlier in the thread for reasons unknownst to man (I quoted it for you in case you have a hard time reading). I certainly did not. And I didnt refer a single statement about Eli in regards to SB 46. I mentioned the offense and STs which consists of more players than just Eli.
But carry on.... you have insistently gone on for years that the defense carried the Giants in the playoffs. Its a false narrative and by saying the Ginats shut down Brady in the SB (which they did not, which I proved by examples ,stats, and game play action). Your agenda is clear and to be honest..... boring.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Regardless of the one game comparison...
I am proving that the defense didnt shut down the Patriots which has been inferred to many times on this thread. I am in belief that the offense and special teams played a larger point in the win. Outside of tuck and chase making a play... out defnese was really non existent. I am not going to give credit to a unit because the other side had colossal fuck ups.
"I proved by examples ,stats, and game play action".
Sure you did.
Um, I did. Did I make up the plays that were missed by Brady and the Pats? Were my TOP and drive information wrong?
Oh I got it. You just dont understand them. My fault. Ill do a better job... lets slow it down for you here.
With 4:06 left in the game and the Patriots up 2, the Patriots had 2nd down. brady dropped back and Wes Welker ran up the slot with NO ONE guaridng him. He was open by 15 yards. Brady threw a pass a little behind him that Welker couldnt bring in on the adjustment. If caught in stride, it most likely goes for a touchdown. If caught irregardless, its a first down in FG range and the Giants would be forced to burn timeouts with NO guarantee they would get the ball back. A TD ends the game.
See this would be example of a stat line play where the defense gets credit for an incompletion when they did NOTHING on the play that would be called good defense. But according to you, it was plays like this that "shut down" Brady - right? hahahahahahahahahaha
If he is the whole offense and STs, then I guess. The fact is the offense and Specials carried us that day. Blwon coverages and misfires doesnt equate to good dfense or shutting down a player,.
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
and a huge but-- the bigger reason the Patriots are the dynasty they are is because the overall contribution/production of the other 52 guys on the roster and coaching staff to "do their jobs" year in, year out, and week in, week out, better than the 52 guys and coaching staff on any other team in the league.
the Patriots (or the Brady-less Patriots) are the best team every season or every week. It's that on the whole, the entire organization runs like a machine, and so when that machine has an all-world QB, it will be at an advantage to teams that have all-world QBs but are not as finely-tuned in the execution surrounding the QB.
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
Britt excuse my possible ignorance, are you agreeing with me or adding to my post?
what the Patriots would be without Brady are 100% speculating, no different than the people suggesting Brady is a key/main reason for their success.
It's an opinion and un-answerable premise and there is no information to suggest the outcome should Brady have not been on the Patriots all these years and been instead on a different team with a different QB(s) in New England.
People suggesting one way is a fact come across as major douche bags (no offense and with all due respect)
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
Britt excuse my possible ignorance, are you agreeing with me or adding to my post?
what the Patriots would be without Brady are 100% speculating, no different than the people suggesting Brady is a key/main reason for their success.
It's an opinion and un-answerable premise and there is no information to suggest the outcome should Brady have not been on the Patriots all these years and been instead on a different team with a different QB(s) in New England.
People suggesting one way is a fact come across as major douche bags (no offense and with all due respect)
We can only go on what actually happened, and Brady's resume is second to none. It speaks for itself.
Guys can only play the hand they're dealt, and nobody knows what it would look like if Rodgers and Brady switched places.
I intentionally simplified my comments when discussing what it takes not only just to win one game in the nfl, but to be consistently good enough to win a championship, and yes getting brakes matter.
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
The Pack beat the Bears in the NFC titke game in '10. Bears I think had their third string Qb, since a Cutler had a boo boo, in at one point and I believe the biggest score of the game was a pick six by the Packer Nose Guard. Rodgers threw two picks. His team helped carry him to the Super Bowl. Good luck finding a game where the rest of the Giants carried Eli to a Playoff win.
Teams win football games, no QB can win a title on his own. Although, Eli in 2011 is about as close as I have seen to a QB carrying a team to a title.
Not gonna argue with you, I think Eli did a damn good job....
Football teams win titles. Not one guy. If Brady was on the Giants he would likely be injured. Shurmur would have him dropping back 50 times behind this line.
The Pats are like a machine. They roll year in and year out.
and a huge but-- the bigger reason the Patriots are the dynasty they are is because the overall contribution/production of the other 52 guys on the roster and coaching staff to "do their jobs" year in, year out, and week in, week out, better than the 52 guys and coaching staff on any other team in the league.
I agree with this but this is another feather in Brady's cap if you ask me. He is a big part of building that culture in NE. That type of culture was not built before him. It was built with him. Without Brady, that culture is likely never built.
I am proving that the defense didnt shut down the Patriots which has been inferred to many times on this thread. I am in belief that the offense and special teams played a larger point in the win. Outside of tuck and chase making a play... out defnese was really non existent. I am not going to give credit to a unit because the other side had colossal fuck ups.
OK, fine - the defense did NOTHING that day - outside of Tuck and Blakburn making a few plays - they just got lucky that Brady made two bad passes out of 45 dropbacks.
Game was won due to Eli (I mean, "the offense") even though they only scored 19 points. And ST play.
Quote:
It's this talk that he's the greatest football player ever.
I just can't buy that after watching players like LT, Reggie White, Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, etc. Players who were using speed, strength, quickness, etc to change the game.
Brady is nowhere in that category of athlete/player. He plays a critical position that, ironically, requires less and less ability and skill to absorb physical contract. And for me, that just isn't football anymore...
But you're discounting the fact that Brady straddles two different eras in the NFL, and won multiple championships in both.
He won his first three Superbowls in an era that was absolutely more violent, as well as a lot harder to play offensive football where the defenders could mug WR's (pre-Polian Peyton rule changing), a strategy that the Patriots themselves utilized to perfection.
Let's be honest - the first SB was more Vinatieri than Brady. The two kicks he made in the snow against the Raiders in the division game were as good as it gets. And the first one courtesy of the tuck rule. And if you remember, Brady didn't play against the Steelers in the AFC Championship game - Bledsoe did. And then Vinatieri made the greatest clutch kick ever in the SB.
But the point of my post was about this narrative of Brady being the GOAT for any position in football. I just can't wrap my head around that on an "athlete" playing a sport who can't run, has no quickness, and isn't a pillar of football strength like a Roethlisberger.
They had the ball 9 times. Scored on only 3. Our defense got points on one possession. Had an INT on another. And NE failed to come close to their season average of 32+ points/game.
They could not run the ball.
Brady dropped back 45 times for a net of 266 yards passing.
Quote:
Are we watching the same sport?
Giants D started by scoring and held them 2 TDS below their season average. Brady couldnt throw the ball down the field. He threw it 40+ times and avg under 7 YPA.
Because they didnt have the ball. And when they did, they moved it quite effectively. When your offense holds the ball for the entire game, its hard for the team to score. Pus, are you giving the defense for a blown coverage and missed passed that would have ended the game? Here are the Giants drives by number of plays.....
10
9
8
7
10
9
10
9
8 drives, all lasting at leas 7 plays. 37:00 minutes worth of possessions. You know where NE started their drives? 16 yard line. I am sorry, but the offense won us the SB, much like they did in SB 25 - by keeping the more explosive offense OFF the field.
If you want to give the defense all the credit, your agenda will remain constant. By if Brady hits a WIDE OPEN Welker.... the game is over and we lose.
No one is denying the offense didn't play very well (they would have scored more points if not for that stupid phantom holding call on Boothe), but the defense was tremendous.
NE still had the ball 9 times, and only scored on 3 of them. Brady was only sacked twice, but harassed most of the game (not as much as he was harassed/bit in SB 42, of course).
It was a complete effort What I have an issue is with you saying that the defense did "nothing"
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
1st drive - Brady has a mental error and throws it to the wrong place, not realizing what he was doing was wrong. If thats great defense, our standards have dropped dramatically.
2nd drive - 10 plays, 60 yards FG
3rd drive - 3 and out - good defense
4th drive - 14 plays 96 yards TD.
5th drive - 8 plays - 79 yards.
those two drives ended the half started the 2nd half that put us in a whole.
6th drive - 3 and out - great defense
7th drive - 5 plays, 23 yards - where Brady underthrew an open gronk and blackburn made a pick. great play by Chase, but it was a missed opportunity.
8th drive - 11 play drive punt where Brady missed a wide open Welker that would have ended the game. This is not good defense whatsoever. Again, if need to relay on blown coverage missed passes - the standard is low.
9th drive - Pats go 30 yards before the game ended. So we are now counting this as a stop?
Brady really hurt his team this game and it didnt have to do with a pass rush or great defense. He took a bad safety by not throwing it out of bounds. He missed an open Gronk and he missed a wide open Welker. If this constitutes the defense carrying the team on that day - well your agenda continues.
Ill give the proper credit to the offense and special teams controlling the ball and field position.
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
KWALL never has nor will he ever give Eli credit for anything.
Answer? I'm not.
An interesting point since the same defense shut down Brady too.
But how is this about Eli?
Oh because Dep is on the thread and he makes everything about Eli.
But how is this about Eli?
Oh because Dep is on the thread and he makes everything about Eli.
Oh here we go.... lol. KWALL typical go to move.
Actually, you are the first one to bring up Eli.... but again.... carry on.
Quote:
dep's point was that KWALL attributes the Giants runs mainly to the defense, while giving credit to guys like Brees for their runs, even though his defense rose to the occasion as well.
At least that's how I read it. And I think it's a valid point.
KWALL never has nor will he ever give Eli credit for anything.
KWALL may (or may not) have an agenda here, but it's pretty clear your Eli narrative is present as well.
It was a team effort, just leave it at that. Geez...
Rodgers is a great, great, great QB. But the fact he has only 1 SB does not put him in the same category as Brady.
KWALL may (or may not) have an agenda here, but it's pretty clear your Eli narrative is present as well.
It was a team effort, just leave it at that. Geez...
LOL, by saying the offense and STs had more to do with the win than the defense means I have an Eli agenda....
great call. Did I even mention anything about Eli during the game? No... thank you... move along.
Thats more BS. The point was made the 2011 defense stopped Rodgers and that is a knock on Rodgers in a debate of Rodgers vs Brady.
I pointed out the 2011 defense shut down Brady too.
That's bringing up Eli?
Or not giving him credit.
The point was clear. How can you knock Rodgers for his performance against the 2011 defense when Brady didn't do any better vs that same defense?
But this is about Eli in your world.
Thats more BS. The point was made the 2011 defense stopped Rodgers and that is a knock on Rodgers in a debate of Rodgers vs Brady.
I pointed out the 2011 defense shut down Brady too.
That's bringing up Eli?
Or not giving him credit.
The point was clear. How can you knock Rodgers for his performance against the 2011 defense when Brady didn't do any better vs that same defense?
But this is about Eli in your world.
Actually you brought up Eli earlier in the thread for reasons unknownst to man (I quoted it for you in case you have a hard time reading). I certainly did not. And I didnt refer a single statement about Eli in regards to SB 46. I mentioned the offense and STs which consists of more players than just Eli.
But carry on.... you have insistently gone on for years that the defense carried the Giants in the playoffs. Its a false narrative and by saying the Ginats shut down Brady in the SB (which they did not, which I proved by examples ,stats, and game play action). Your agenda is clear and to be honest..... boring.
Quote:
KWALL may (or may not) have an agenda here, but it's pretty clear your Eli narrative is present as well.
It was a team effort, just leave it at that. Geez...
LOL, by saying the offense and STs had more to do with the win than the defense means I have an Eli agenda....
great call. Did I even mention anything about Eli during the game? No... thank you... move along.
Holy crap, dude. Well, let's see...you specifically gave props to the offense.....and the guy who lead the offense was Eli....
How "great" was the offense, anyway? You keep referencing the fact they dominated TOP; they had the ball for 37 minutes, and scored 19 measly points.
All three phases of the team were key contributors to the win. It was a complete team win. Just let it go!
I am proving that the defense didnt shut down the Patriots which has been inferred to many times on this thread. I am in belief that the offense and special teams played a larger point in the win. Outside of tuck and chase making a play... out defnese was really non existent. I am not going to give credit to a unit because the other side had colossal fuck ups.
Sure you did.
and the 6 possessions that did not lead to points...
or the 4 possessions of 5 plays or less...
Defense wasn't there that day.
Sure you did.
Um, I did. Did I make up the plays that were missed by Brady and the Pats? Were my TOP and drive information wrong?
Oh I got it. You just dont understand them. My fault. Ill do a better job... lets slow it down for you here.
With 4:06 left in the game and the Patriots up 2, the Patriots had 2nd down. brady dropped back and Wes Welker ran up the slot with NO ONE guaridng him. He was open by 15 yards. Brady threw a pass a little behind him that Welker couldnt bring in on the adjustment. If caught in stride, it most likely goes for a touchdown. If caught irregardless, its a first down in FG range and the Giants would be forced to burn timeouts with NO guarantee they would get the ball back. A TD ends the game.
See this would be example of a stat line play where the defense gets credit for an incompletion when they did NOTHING on the play that would be called good defense. But according to you, it was plays like this that "shut down" Brady - right? hahahahahahahahahaha
and the 6 possessions that did not lead to points...
or the 4 possessions of 5 plays or less...
Defense wasn't there that day.
still including drives where a hail mary ended the game and a 2 blown passes as good defensive drives? Your standards are weak as usual.
Great point.
9 possessions. 3 scores.
14+ points below the NE average.
Defense scored.
Got an INT.
Held them to 266 passing yards on 45 pass plays.
And back to the points...
Held NE to their lowest point total of the year and 2 TDs below their average.
Great point.
Held NE to their lowest point total of the year and 2 TDs below their average.
Thank the offense and STs for that.
The did not execute the play. It was one play out of 45 pass plays.
Great point.
We lose the SB if it was caught. Great defense though.
The did not execute the play. It was one play out of 45 pass plays.
Brady under throwing Gronk. Thats another play. He was open. But great defense again.
Doing it against one of the best offenses ever makes it exceptional especially when the D gives you points on top of it.
But this is about Eli, right?
But this is about Eli, right?
If he is the whole offense and STs, then I guess. The fact is the offense and Specials carried us that day. Blwon coverages and misfires doesnt equate to good dfense or shutting down a player,.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
Quote:
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
Britt excuse my possible ignorance, are you agreeing with me or adding to my post?
It's an opinion and un-answerable premise and there is no information to suggest the outcome should Brady have not been on the Patriots all these years and been instead on a different team with a different QB(s) in New England.
People suggesting one way is a fact come across as major douche bags (no offense and with all due respect)
Quote:
In comment 14165568 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
Britt excuse my possible ignorance, are you agreeing with me or adding to my post?
Agreeing and adding. Both.
It's an opinion and un-answerable premise and there is no information to suggest the outcome should Brady have not been on the Patriots all these years and been instead on a different team with a different QB(s) in New England.
People suggesting one way is a fact come across as major douche bags (no offense and with all due respect)
We can only go on what actually happened, and Brady's resume is second to none. It speaks for itself.
Guys can only play the hand they're dealt, and nobody knows what it would look like if Rodgers and Brady switched places.
Quote:
Ground. This will be put too simply considering all of the components at play for a team winning a championship. But to isolate it to you two's discussion; qb play and defense had a lot to do with the giants bringing home another championship. Can't we just rest at that? This argument comes up about three or so times each year with the same dialogue.
Lot's of things have to happen for a team to win a championship, including breaks and luck. No single guy carries a team to a championship by himself, period.
Even as I mentioned earlier in this thread, as great as Rodgers is, if the Giants don't collapse against the Eagles in 2010 in a game completely unrelated to him, they don't even make the playoffs that year (no Superbowl).
The Pack beat the Bears in the NFC titke game in '10. Bears I think had their third string Qb, since a Cutler had a boo boo, in at one point and I believe the biggest score of the game was a pick six by the Packer Nose Guard. Rodgers threw two picks. His team helped carry him to the Super Bowl. Good luck finding a game where the rest of the Giants carried Eli to a Playoff win.
Teams win football games, no QB can win a title on his own. Although, Eli in 2011 is about as close as I have seen to a QB carrying a team to a title.
The Pats are like a machine. They roll year in and year out.
I agree with this but this is another feather in Brady's cap if you ask me. He is a big part of building that culture in NE. That type of culture was not built before him. It was built with him. Without Brady, that culture is likely never built.
I am proving that the defense didnt shut down the Patriots which has been inferred to many times on this thread. I am in belief that the offense and special teams played a larger point in the win. Outside of tuck and chase making a play... out defnese was really non existent. I am not going to give credit to a unit because the other side had colossal fuck ups.
OK, fine - the defense did NOTHING that day - outside of Tuck and Blakburn making a few plays - they just got lucky that Brady made two bad passes out of 45 dropbacks.
Game was won due to Eli (I mean, "the offense") even though they only scored 19 points. And ST play.
I think I got it now!
JFC this place fucking blows sometimes.