taking a shot at ZGiants at all here but I just spoke to someone with ties to a team that has already called the Marlins and he said the price on Realmuto remains "extremely high" so "less than Gimenez" simply isn't accurate.
This is a false accusation. I said at some point last year, a persons's source said it could take less than Gimenez. I didn't suggest that was said today or in the last week and specifically said asks change daily.
Last year makes even less sense as the Marlins turned down Robles at the deadline who obviously has more value than Gimenez.
Are Phillies the favorite for Harper?
Nov. 7: Are the Phillies the most logical landing spot for free-agent superstar Bryce Harper? USA Today's Bob Nightengale thinks it's a virtual lock. The reasons he gives boil down to the process of elimination, as well as what he says executives around the game think.
If Realmuto went to the Braves, his addition would go a long way toward strengthening the budding roster for the reigning NL East champs, who employed a platoon of Tyler Flowers and Kurt Suzuki (now a free agent) behind the plate last season. Acquiring Realmuto via trade would likely cost Atlanta several top prospects, and perhaps a current Major Leaguer as well, but the Braves possess one of the game's top farm systems per MLB Pipeline.
Because i vividly remember him actually saying "less" when we were talking about it mid-summer, this was around the time Shecky was telling us to watch "Bour" also. If I have time Ill actually go through the threads I guess.
I have to say this shit really needs to end though. I bring up a vague conversation from last year and offer my opinion that IF IT WERE TRUE Id be all over it. Nobody knows what the return is and its just a general throw away hot stove comment. I even said I personally WOULD trade Gimenez+. Not every comment needs to be turned into a federal case. Especially, with something that is so incredibly impossible to pin down or know for sure anyway (How the hell are we supposed to prove what players might have been discussed between the Marlins and Mets??) If every single time you brought up Nimmo and I grilled you for being wrong about him being nothing more than a 4th OF, or Wheeler and him never improving his control and being anything more than a backend starter, or TDA and 100000% not being in the Syndergaard deal, etc., etc, and over and over again... Dont you think it would get annoying? Enough with trying to attack me every time I speak. Its freaking old.
Lets's just be cool and coexist. I have no issues with you. No desire to fight with you anymore.
Every offseason is different and this offseason seems to be shaping up to be much "hotter" than the recent couple of seasons. We saw true star players get dealt for underwhelming packages and MVP candidates like JD Martinez signed to underwhelming deals... At best, every team seemed to want to "wait out" everybody else. I dont see that happening this year.
So maybe the Marlins and Realmuto picked a great offseason to make him available and they get a ton back. Who knows until it happens? We'll just wait and see.
truly was not looking to fight with you. You made a statement that flew against what everyone, I mean every single writer has stated, that the price on Realmuto is and has been sky high. I wasn't attacking or rude. I said I didn't agree and we would soon find out the price.
I 100% respect Shecky, but he doesn't work for the Marlins. If "less than Gimenez" landed Realmuto it would mean the entire baseball writing community is wrong and you would have to believe Realmuto would be a Met by now. "Less than Gimenez" is so far below Realmuto's value that it just doesn't pass the sniff test. I'm truly, truly not interesting in fighting all season. If you think I find it interesting or fun you are mistaken. If Realmuto is moved for a price we can compare to "less than Gimenez" I will admit my folly. It would also mean Brodie is off to an awful start.
@CraigMish
13h13 hours ago
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Sources also indicate Marlins are asking price on Realmuto is a high end young pitching prospect and a position player. A potential two for one.
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Joe Frisaro
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@JoeFrisaro
11h11 hours ago
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Am hearing 8-10 teams have touched base with #Marlins regarding J.T. Realmuto.
Was Gimenez even considered the Mets best prospect? Or if he was, was he considered top 30-ish where he might be now or more fringe top 100?. Is it conceivable a package was discussed "not with Gimenez" because they simply didn't like him? Maybe more pitcher friendly that included guys like Peterson, etc? I dont know. Just guessing.. Our prospect pool in the least likely didn't have the value it has now (players finished strong, etc)
I agree with you that he likely gets a big return. I also think sometimes trades happen where teams dont necessarily "love" a specific prospect or even more... get back underwhelming returns... so I guess thats more where I was coming from.
Glad to see we are cool though. Looking forward to an interesting offseason!
don't have an Athletic subscription but Bowden lays out 5 potential Realmuto packages (none are Mets) Link - ( New Window )
It's pretty uninteresting. First he uses CS% to prop up Realmuto's defense compared to other top catchers then the actual deals are basically recycled from the deadline. Straight up for Robles, 2 of Atlanta's young arms, etc.
the median ask is probably.. Top 30 guy, +Top 70 guy, +upside interesting guy OR Young cost controlled established player (Nimmo or Conforto) and that still might not be enough..
Seems like his market is going to be huge so at this point just give me Grandal or Ramos. Just dont sign Grandal to a "mega deal" please. Something in the the 3-4 year range and Im golden.
Mets interested in a reunion with Asdrubel per Puma
I can't let myself think Brodie is this stupid this quickly. It's like every bad Sandy FA move rolled into 1.
displace a promising young player defensively? check.
reunite with an unathletic crusty veteran? check.
make the defense worse? check.
minimal upside? check.
Cabrera is a good hitter and as an extra piece if they have a spot open in January, fine. But to start the offseason using one of their handful of open 40 man spots to potentially displace 1 of last year's promising breakout players would be as 'same old mets' as it gets.
Means what exactly? Are his clients not options for Mets, are negotiations done via intermediarys?
He said he would speak to Omar, Fred and Jeff.
"Boras adds: "I've never talked to Brodie Van Wagenen in my life." He says when he meets with the Mets to negotiate this winter, he can talk to the Wilpons or other staffers."
Mets interested in a reunion with Asdrubel per Puma
I can't let myself think Brodie is this stupid this quickly. It's like every bad Sandy FA move rolled into 1.
displace a promising young player defensively? check.
reunite with an unathletic crusty veteran? check.
make the defense worse? check.
minimal upside? check.
Cabrera is a good hitter and as an extra piece if they have a spot open in January, fine. But to start the offseason using one of their handful of open 40 man spots to potentially displace 1 of last year's promising breakout players would be as 'same old mets' as it gets.
Many of the writers are saying as much. They are saying if they sign him now it means he's been promised major PT aka 2b. He's too good to be settling for 5th
iF in November. Totally against the move unless there are prior moves.
as the final piece of the infield of the future (Alonso, Rosario, Gimenez and McNeil) and want Cabrera as a place holder for Gimenez who isn't quite ready.
RE: If the Mets sign Asdrubal, it means they view Gimenez
as the final piece of the infield of the future (Alonso, Rosario, Gimenez and McNeil) and want Cabrera as a place holder for Gimenez who isn't quite ready.
Cabrera blocks McNeil in 2019. Frazier is the starting 3b.
RE: If the Mets sign Asdrubal, it means they view Gimenez
as the final piece of the infield of the future (Alonso, Rosario, Gimenez and McNeil) and want Cabrera as a place holder for Gimenez who isn't quite ready.
They have Frazier on a 1 year deal, who is much better defensively and similar offensively. And Flores if they bring him back. No reason to add another mediocre 2b with Mcneil. In just 248 plate appearances he was the 11th best 2b in baseball last year. Ahead of Cabrera who had 592 PA.
despite the bvw relationship, but I actually think he's a really good stop gap piece. High energy, plays good D, can play 3rd or be the placeholder for Alonso at 1b (if they do get an every day 3B elsewhere and dump bruce).
RE: I could see a Frazier trade if something crazy (machado) happens
despite the bvw relationship, but I actually think he's a really good stop gap piece. High energy, plays good D, can play 3rd or be the placeholder for Alonso at 1b (if they do get an every day 3B elsewhere and dump bruce).
Traded, sure it's possible. Benched while Cabrera becomes the 2b? 0% chance. 0.
but as a super sub/utility guy - especially if they non-tender Flores.
I don't want him starting.
Just seems redundant with a handful of other players.
Which is fine but a player of his caliber isn't signing on in November/December for that kind of role. He's too close to being an MLB starter to settle for that.
behind the paywall but Britton did a good article on top relievers
1 interesting stat was that Familia has the least innings on him of the top tier guys. Still think he makes the most sense as 1 of the additions to the BP. Other than Kimbrel he's the least risky investment by far, and would make it far easier to gamble on someone like Miller as the 2nd piece. In a sea of options to rebuild their bullpen, the Mets search for the best fit - ( New Window )
on Britton. The Mets aren't going to be a great defensive team and Britton pitches to contact. Kimbrel obviously is the best option but even going with 2 of tier 2 like Robertson is fine, just pass on Britton for me.
I'd take Familia over Kimbrel, especially if the money were less for Familia.
but to me the key is the Mes HAVE to add Familia/Kimbrel AND AT LEAST one other solid bullpen piece. Not a Swarzak or Ramos, but a Miller or Robertson or Britton - I don't even know the names as well as some of you, but the bullpen needs to be turned from a weakness to a strength. Shorten games, take some pressure off starters, fix the D, and roll through 2019.
is still the superior pitcher to Familia. People were saying similar things about him post 2016, that he was in decline etc then he put up a monster 2017. The mere fact the NL has seen a lot less of him in recent years makes him very appealing (he won't be a Met) but Steamer is projecting a 2.71 FIP, 13.61 K/9, Familia 3.49. On paper it's still not particularly close.
is still the superior pitcher to Familia. People were saying similar things about him post 2016, that he was in decline etc then he put up a monster 2017. The mere fact the NL has seen a lot less of him in recent years makes him very appealing (he won't be a Met) but Steamer is projecting a 2.71 FIP, 13.61 K/9, Familia 3.49. On paper it's still not particularly close.
is still the superior pitcher to Familia. People were saying similar things about him post 2016, that he was in decline etc then he put up a monster 2017. The mere fact the NL has seen a lot less of him in recent years makes him very appealing (he won't be a Met) but Steamer is projecting a 2.71 FIP, 13.61 K/9, Familia 3.49. On paper it's still not particularly close.
what were the 2018 projections?
Familia FIP in 2018 was better than Kimbrel.
I don't have access to their 2018 projections as they wipe them for the new season. I've yet to see a single "expert" rank Familia above Kimbrel for 2019. Kiley McDaniel has Kimbrel the #1 RP (#12 overall), Familia #4 (25th best FA) behind Kimbrel, Ottavino and Robertson.
issue. Kimbrel projects to get a bigger contract than Familia.
If signing Familia means the Mets can get Familia and Miller (for example) or one of the other top bullpen guys then I support that more than one bullpen piece.
If it's irrelevant then get the better player.
but I don't care too much about what the "experts" think or how they're ranked. I watched the playoffs, Kimbrel looked beyond shaky. Very few clean outings, especially early in the playoffs. Hate to buy high on a reliever on the cusp of a meltdown.
issue. Kimbrel projects to get a bigger contract than Familia.
If signing Familia means the Mets can get Familia and Miller (for example) or one of the other top bullpen guys then I support that more than one bullpen piece.
If it's irrelevant then get the better player.
but I don't care too much about what the "experts" think or how they're ranked. I watched the playoffs, Kimbrel looked beyond shaky. Very few clean outings, especially early in the playoffs. Hate to buy high on a reliever on the cusp of a meltdown.
I'd certainly take Familia and Miller over Kimbrel. I don't expect 2 "big" RP so if it's Kimbrel head to head with Familia I'm taking the better P and that's Kimbrel. I expect 1 "name" RP which is why I suggested Dom+ for someone like Fry
But see Z accusing me of some shit lol
Ill be brief. Jeffy had major hard on for Realmuto. Not everyone did, but he sure did
Marlins could ask for the world, but they werent getting it then. Not even close. Today, very different story. Theyre asking for the stars and the moon - and May wind up with stars. Personally, think thats a massive mistake - but 5ats personal.
Gimenez a year ago was virtually an afterthought, not a potential future star. Just potential. His value has grown tremendously, and will continue to do so.
My points for being adamant the cost of Realmuto was less than Gimenez was Gimenez was better than people thought, Realmuto is NOT. a GameChanger, if Marlins were moving him the cost shouldnt be as high as Jeffy is willing to go. And dont think articles dont get written within hours when you have your conversations on here. Lazy, lazy writers...
more I look at Donaldson the more I wish they would find a way to add him (even if it meant Alonso being blocked for a bit). Frazier either performs or he doesn't and if he doesn't he's a great clubhouse guy who can play 3b/1B. Non-tender Wilmer, sign Donaldson, make Frazier the OD 1b.
Quote:
taking a shot at ZGiants at all here but I just spoke to someone with ties to a team that has already called the Marlins and he said the price on Realmuto remains "extremely high" so "less than Gimenez" simply isn't accurate.
This is a false accusation. I said at some point last year, a persons's source said it could take less than Gimenez. I didn't suggest that was said today or in the last week and specifically said asks change daily.
Last year makes even less sense as the Marlins turned down Robles at the deadline who obviously has more value than Gimenez.
Are Phillies the favorite for Harper?
Nov. 7: Are the Phillies the most logical landing spot for free-agent superstar Bryce Harper? USA Today's Bob Nightengale thinks it's a virtual lock. The reasons he gives boil down to the process of elimination, as well as what he says executives around the game think.
I have to say this shit really needs to end though. I bring up a vague conversation from last year and offer my opinion that IF IT WERE TRUE Id be all over it. Nobody knows what the return is and its just a general throw away hot stove comment. I even said I personally WOULD trade Gimenez+. Not every comment needs to be turned into a federal case. Especially, with something that is so incredibly impossible to pin down or know for sure anyway (How the hell are we supposed to prove what players might have been discussed between the Marlins and Mets??) If every single time you brought up Nimmo and I grilled you for being wrong about him being nothing more than a 4th OF, or Wheeler and him never improving his control and being anything more than a backend starter, or TDA and 100000% not being in the Syndergaard deal, etc., etc, and over and over again... Dont you think it would get annoying? Enough with trying to attack me every time I speak. Its freaking old.
Lets's just be cool and coexist. I have no issues with you. No desire to fight with you anymore.
So maybe the Marlins and Realmuto picked a great offseason to make him available and they get a ton back. Who knows until it happens? We'll just wait and see.
I 100% respect Shecky, but he doesn't work for the Marlins. If "less than Gimenez" landed Realmuto it would mean the entire baseball writing community is wrong and you would have to believe Realmuto would be a Met by now. "Less than Gimenez" is so far below Realmuto's value that it just doesn't pass the sniff test. I'm truly, truly not interesting in fighting all season. If you think I find it interesting or fun you are mistaken. If Realmuto is moved for a price we can compare to "less than Gimenez" I will admit my folly. It would also mean Brodie is off to an awful start.
Link - ( New Window )
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@CraigMish
13h13 hours ago
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Sources also indicate Marlins are asking price on Realmuto is a high end young pitching prospect and a position player. A potential two for one.
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Joe Frisaro
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@JoeFrisaro
11h11 hours ago
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Am hearing 8-10 teams have touched base with #Marlins regarding J.T. Realmuto.
I agree with you that he likely gets a big return. I also think sometimes trades happen where teams dont necessarily "love" a specific prospect or even more... get back underwhelming returns... so I guess thats more where I was coming from.
Glad to see we are cool though. Looking forward to an interesting offseason!
It's pretty uninteresting. First he uses CS% to prop up Realmuto's defense compared to other top catchers then the actual deals are basically recycled from the deadline. Straight up for Robles, 2 of Atlanta's young arms, etc.
Seems like his market is going to be huge so at this point just give me Grandal or Ramos. Just dont sign Grandal to a "mega deal" please. Something in the the 3-4 year range and Im golden.
No. First round picks are safe now. 2nd pick and about 500 IFA money now.
2nd
I can't let myself think Brodie is this stupid this quickly. It's like every bad Sandy FA move rolled into 1.
displace a promising young player defensively? check.
reunite with an unathletic crusty veteran? check.
make the defense worse? check.
minimal upside? check.
Cabrera is a good hitter and as an extra piece if they have a spot open in January, fine. But to start the offseason using one of their handful of open 40 man spots to potentially displace 1 of last year's promising breakout players would be as 'same old mets' as it gets.
He said he would speak to Omar, Fred and Jeff.
"Boras adds: "I've never talked to Brodie Van Wagenen in my life." He says when he meets with the Mets to negotiate this winter, he can talk to the Wilpons or other staffers."
Quote:
Mets interested in a reunion with Asdrubel per Puma
I can't let myself think Brodie is this stupid this quickly. It's like every bad Sandy FA move rolled into 1.
displace a promising young player defensively? check.
reunite with an unathletic crusty veteran? check.
make the defense worse? check.
minimal upside? check.
Cabrera is a good hitter and as an extra piece if they have a spot open in January, fine. But to start the offseason using one of their handful of open 40 man spots to potentially displace 1 of last year's promising breakout players would be as 'same old mets' as it gets.
Many of the writers are saying as much. They are saying if they sign him now it means he's been promised major PT aka 2b. He's too good to be settling for 5th
iF in November. Totally against the move unless there are prior moves.
Braves or Nats. I think hes really good. And probably will get better.
Cabrera blocks McNeil in 2019. Frazier is the starting 3b.
They have Frazier on a 1 year deal, who is much better defensively and similar offensively. And Flores if they bring him back. No reason to add another mediocre 2b with Mcneil. In just 248 plate appearances he was the 11th best 2b in baseball last year. Ahead of Cabrera who had 592 PA.
Traded, sure it's possible. Benched while Cabrera becomes the 2b? 0% chance. 0.
I don't want him starting.
Just seems redundant with a handful of other players.
I don't want him starting.
Just seems redundant with a handful of other players.
Which is fine but a player of his caliber isn't signing on in November/December for that kind of role. He's too close to being an MLB starter to settle for that.
In a sea of options to rebuild their bullpen, the Mets search for the best fit - ( New Window )
As they say in Boston "hot-attack closah"
I'd take Familia over Kimbrel, especially if the money were less for Familia.
but to me the key is the Mes HAVE to add Familia/Kimbrel AND AT LEAST one other solid bullpen piece. Not a Swarzak or Ramos, but a Miller or Robertson or Britton - I don't even know the names as well as some of you, but the bullpen needs to be turned from a weakness to a strength. Shorten games, take some pressure off starters, fix the D, and roll through 2019.
what were the 2018 projections?
Familia FIP in 2018 was better than Kimbrel.
Quote:
is still the superior pitcher to Familia. People were saying similar things about him post 2016, that he was in decline etc then he put up a monster 2017. The mere fact the NL has seen a lot less of him in recent years makes him very appealing (he won't be a Met) but Steamer is projecting a 2.71 FIP, 13.61 K/9, Familia 3.49. On paper it's still not particularly close.
what were the 2018 projections?
Familia FIP in 2018 was better than Kimbrel.
I don't have access to their 2018 projections as they wipe them for the new season. I've yet to see a single "expert" rank Familia above Kimbrel for 2019. Kiley McDaniel has Kimbrel the #1 RP (#12 overall), Familia #4 (25th best FA) behind Kimbrel, Ottavino and Robertson.
If signing Familia means the Mets can get Familia and Miller (for example) or one of the other top bullpen guys then I support that more than one bullpen piece.
If it's irrelevant then get the better player.
but I don't care too much about what the "experts" think or how they're ranked. I watched the playoffs, Kimbrel looked beyond shaky. Very few clean outings, especially early in the playoffs. Hate to buy high on a reliever on the cusp of a meltdown.
If signing Familia means the Mets can get Familia and Miller (for example) or one of the other top bullpen guys then I support that more than one bullpen piece.
If it's irrelevant then get the better player.
but I don't care too much about what the "experts" think or how they're ranked. I watched the playoffs, Kimbrel looked beyond shaky. Very few clean outings, especially early in the playoffs. Hate to buy high on a reliever on the cusp of a meltdown.
I'd certainly take Familia and Miller over Kimbrel. I don't expect 2 "big" RP so if it's Kimbrel head to head with Familia I'm taking the better P and that's Kimbrel. I expect 1 "name" RP which is why I suggested Dom+ for someone like Fry
Ill be brief. Jeffy had major hard on for Realmuto. Not everyone did, but he sure did
Marlins could ask for the world, but they werent getting it then. Not even close. Today, very different story. Theyre asking for the stars and the moon - and May wind up with stars. Personally, think thats a massive mistake - but 5ats personal.
Gimenez a year ago was virtually an afterthought, not a potential future star. Just potential. His value has grown tremendously, and will continue to do so.
My points for being adamant the cost of Realmuto was less than Gimenez was Gimenez was better than people thought, Realmuto is NOT. a GameChanger, if Marlins were moving him the cost shouldnt be as high as Jeffy is willing to go. And dont think articles dont get written within hours when you have your conversations on here. Lazy, lazy writers...